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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
Jul 29, 2008
65,136
47,525
In a coffee shop.
I do really like that scene, although the clip doesn’t put it into full context. Picard is negotiating for extra time to evacuate some stubborn and quite arrogant humans from a planet that another species was given in a treaty long ago. It was surprising to find humans there anyway as the environment was inherently hostile to human life.

This species considers humans no more significant than ants and would readily eradicate them all, except for the extraordinarily lengthy, detailed, and comprehensive treaty.

The aliens are brutally dismissive of all of Picard’s attempts to negotiate by simply repeating verbatim sections of the treaty that outline their authority in the matter—when they answer calls at all.

That scene is a culmination of an extraordinarily trying and frustrating series of communications with an utterly and completely intransigent and uncaring adversary.

Actually I like the other story line too, where Data is sent to negotiate with arrogant and intransigent humans who initially refuse to leave their colony. What’s interesting here is the way in which both parties handle their negotiations and the ways by which they came to a resolution.

The irony, and I think brilliance of the episode, is that at the outset we are lead to expect that the only way of dealing with the aliens is with violence and to expect the humans to be quite reasonable. However the solutions are reversed from expectation: Picard found a diplomatic solution deep within an arcane document, while Data must resort to physically destroying the settlement’s infrastructure in order to force the humans to leave.

Anyway, good thing Picard studied a bit of anthropology (exo-anthropology?) and remembered the Grizelle were in their hibernation season...

Great post and analysis of an excellent episode.

And great, too, to see that others share my love for TNG - one of the best shows ever - my mother and I used to watch it together and then discuss the episode in depth afterwards.
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,952
17,447
Hehe, pure comedy.

No, to a degree. Well, yes, it is, but there are much better moments, and I'll admit I did get a laugh out of this one!

This was great, but pure Comedy was watching a drunk Deanna Troi in ST: First Contact. Don't think that both Riker and Worf weren't thinking that they should hit that while they could! :p

BL.
 
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obeygiant

macrumors 601
Jan 14, 2002
4,201
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totally cool
Father's Day this weekend, who was the best Star Trek Dad?

2evqcm8.jpg


TNG164.jpg
spock-and-sarek-in-star-trek-vi.png
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,952
17,447
Yeah, well, Worf definitely wouldn’t top the list of great dads.

Can't really argue with that. I mean, he left the kid with the grandparents to go off adventuring, in which the kid came back with some serious daddy issues.. If there is a daytime talk show in the Star Trek Universe, these two would definitely be on it. Hell, 30 minutes can be spent on these two, while the other 30 are spent on Luke and Anakin (and yes, I mixed the two)!

BL.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
Father's Day this weekend, who was the best Star Trek Dad?

2evqcm8.jpg


TNG164.jpg
spock-and-sarek-in-star-trek-vi.png

And there's also ...

ST-TNG_Future_Imperfect.jpg

[doublepost=1529014895][/doublepost]
Can't really argue with that. I mean, he left the kid with the grandparents to go off adventuring, in which the kid came back with some serious daddy issues.. If there is a daytime talk show in the Star Trek Universe, these two would definitely be on it. Hell, 30 minutes can be spent on these two, while the other 30 are spent on Luke and Anakin (and yes, I mixed the two)!

BL.
alexander.jpg
 

mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
@mobilehaathi got me on a mini marathon these last few days. Just ended it with season three’s “Who Watches the Watchers.” Inspired by this and another active thread I’ve particularly enjoyed these two moments:



Now, as to Father’s Day, I prefer to celebrate this holiday instead:

There are several outstanding episodes in season 3. I may just watch a couple this evening.
 
Yeah.. Don't ya just love how Q turned Crusher into a old codgery Chesapeake Bay Retriever in Q Who?

Some of that is comedy gold.

Then there is the infamous "I look forward to your report, Mr. Broccoli...... Barclay."

BL.

Sometimes it’s the little things. For the longest time, the first “funny moment” that has come to mind when I think about TNG is this:


I think it’s the minimalism. After hearing her personably shared nugget of life story, his verbal and physical hesitancy to find the simplest, most observable compliments makes me laugh quietly but deeply. It’s a great, tidy character moment, too.

—-

On the broader topic of the episode “Survivors” itself, I can think of fewer heartbreaking closing scenes than these (particularly the last two or so minutes). I was a seventeen year-old pup when it aired in the US but I was still floored. It’s worth (re)watching below but being aware of this “production trivia”:

“John Anderson had lost his own wife shortly before appearing in ‘The Survivors’, and said that the subject matter made the role of Kevin Uxbridge one of the most difficult of his career. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion)” (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Survivors_(episode))

It’s that much more resonant knowing the interplay of real-life grief in his affecting performance:


From the beginning of this clip through to his sign-off, Stewart also handles the complex mix of disgust, sympathy, and humility in his cognizance that this is beyond the realm of his judgment, the scope of his position and the inadequacy of systems to which he has devoted his life to grapple with this crime. The drama is further complicated by this “man’s” own existential angst at the outcome of his unfathomable, momentary, and incomprehensibly thorough genocidal rage. Uxbridge knows, feels and appreciates the breadth of his irredeemable guilt no matter how vile the Husnock may have been.

Because of Stewart’s body language (watch his eyes) and his verbal cadences, when Picard sends him back to re-create the illusion of his lost life it is clear that “bestowing” what some might deem a pardon of sorts, Uxbridge, a creature of deep conscience, is actually suffering a damning, eternal sentence under the circumstances. The tone in Stewart’s final recorded lines effectively convey ambivalent empathy and concern.
 
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Mousse

macrumors 68040
Apr 7, 2008
3,648
7,082
Flea Bottom, King's Landing
Father's Day this weekend, who was the best Star Trek Dad?
It's a two horse race between El Jefe (Chief O'Brien) and Capt Sisko.

Kirk didn't even recognize his own son.:rolleyes: Kirk: "Where's Dr. Marcus?" Kirk's Son: "I'm Dr. Marcus." (STII:The Wrath of Khan)
Worf...well, it's not fair to judge him by hew-mon standards.:D
Sulu...the reboot doesn't exist in my universe.:mad:
Sarek...like Worf, should not be judge by hew-mon standards.
Data had his moments, but lack of empathy torpedoed his parenting skills.
Kyle Riker (Cmd Riker's dad) was an jerk dad. Even his son doesn't like him.o_O
Sergey Rozhenko: Not enough is known about him, but he did allow/taught Worf in Klingon traditions. Maybe #3.
Every Cardassian dad (Dukat, Tekeny Ghemor, Kotan Pa'Dar) was exceptional by hew-mon standards, except Enbrain Tain. He was a bit of a jerk to Garak.
 
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phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,476
1,430
@mobilehaathi got me on a mini marathon these last few days. Just ended it with season three’s “Who Watches the Watchers.” Inspired by this and another active thread I’ve particularly enjoyed these two moments:



Now, as to Father’s Day, I prefer to celebrate this holiday instead:


Had a kick out of the offering of Picard saves a civilization. One of the women in the scene was from the original TV show
Dark Shadows. - Katherine Leigh Scott.

latest
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
Jul 29, 2008
65,136
47,525
In a coffee shop.
Sometimes it’s the little things. For the longest time, the first “funny moment” that has come to mind when I think about TNG is this:


I think it’s the minimalism. After hearing her personably shared nugget of life story, his verbal and physical hesitancy to find the simplest, most observable compliments makes me laugh quietly but deeply. It’s a great, tidy character moment, too.

—-

On the broader topic of the episode “Survivors” itself, I can think of fewer heartbreaking closing scenes than these (particularly the last two or so minutes). I was a seventeen year-old pup when it aired in the US but I was still floored. It’s worth (re)watching below but being aware of this “production trivia”:

“John Anderson had lost his own wife shortly before appearing in ‘The Survivors’, and said that the subject matter made the role of Kevin Uxbridge one of the most difficult of his career. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion)” (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Survivors_(episode))

It’s that much more resonant knowing the interplay of real-life grief in his affecting performance:


From the beginning of this clip through to his sign-off, Stewart also handles the complex mix of disgust, sympathy, and humility in his cognizance that this is beyond the realm of his judgment, the scope of his position and the inadequacy of systems to which he has devoted his life to grapple with this crime. The drama is further complicated by this “man’s” own existential angst at the outcome of his unfathomable, momentary, and incomprehensibly thorough genocidal rage. Uxbridge knows, feels and appreciates the breadth of his irredeemable guilt no matter how vile the Husnock may have been.

Because of Stewart’s body language (watch his eyes) and his verbal cadences, when Picard sends him back to re-create the illusion of his lost life it is clear that “bestowing” what some might deem a pardon of sorts, Uxbridge, a creature of deep conscience, is actually suffering a damning, eternal sentence under the circumstances. The tone in Stewart’s final recorded lines effectively convey ambivalent empathy and concern.

Fantastic episode - gripping, compelling and haunting; a great story, epic issues and - as usual - some brilliant acting informed by an intelligent and nuanced script.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Original poster
Jul 29, 2008
65,136
47,525
In a coffee shop.

Not sure I need a post on FB to tell me when Best of Both Worlds aired - for I recall watching it at the time.

Likewise, why don't you actually post what you posted in those other threads, here?

I'm not about to chase across the ether in pursuit of posts in other fora about Star Trek Next Generation when we could all very happily read and write about it here.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
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21 years ago!

As a kid watching this in the early 90s... I had more nightmares about the Borg than I'd like to admit. They terrified me more than anything. That First Contact scene where they had the red lasers in the fog... Yeah.. lol. Nightmares for weeks.

Found it :) Start at :46



Now I name my computers, iPhone, folders after the Borg -- I even have an: I AM BORG license plate coming in the mail for my new car. (DMV CA accepted the custom license plate) :)
 
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Brilliant pair of episodes (actually, a superb trilogy - when counting "Family" to complete the narrative arc); still compelling and gripping viewing.
Roddenberry apparently fought against “Family”. Memory tells me it was partly because he was adamant about the non-serialized episodic formula but partly because he simply hated the concept of the Captain suffering PTSD but at the moment I can’t pull up more than “he hated the script.” It also seems inconsistent since in the original series pilot twenty years earlier, Captain Pike was symptomatic of depression and it was Roddenbery’s own idea to have a counselor on the bridge.

Whatever the case, I’m glad it made it through. Some may find it “boring” but it ranks as among my favorite episodes (along with the previously cited “Inner Light,” DS9’s “Duet,” Far Beyond the Stars” and other character-oriented episodes. Then again, I often prefer “bottle episodes” that (usually for budgetary reasons) have limited sets, effects and cast. It allows the actors and writers to really flex their muscles and round out characters and themes too often constrained to meet genre expectations. Stewart’s turn here pays off in dividends throughout the series.

In the case of “Family,” it serves as rich denouement for what was (and to many remains) Trek’s peak as “sci-fi” action. Not only does it build character and add resonance, it provides a wedge that makes future episodes like “I, Borg” or the movie First Contact more part of a (pardon the pun) continuum in Picard’s own development.

Of course, his Cardassian torture didn’t seem to have any more lasting effects than Troi’s non-consensual mothering of a space kid a year earlier or the various ways O’Brien was tortured over the years... but hey, not everything can be Dostoyevsky. Well, maybe HBO’s The Wire.

As a kid watching this in the early 90s... I had more nightmares about the Borg than I'd like to admit. They terrified me more than anything. That First Contact scene where they had the red lasers in the fog... Yeah.. lol. Nightmares for weeks.

Found it :) Start at :46


Man, I love that effect!
 

obeygiant

macrumors 601
Jan 14, 2002
4,201
4,127
totally cool
As a kid watching this in the early 90s... I had more nightmares about the Borg than I'd like to admit. They terrified me more than anything. That First Contact scene where they had the red lasers in the fog... Yeah.. lol. Nightmares for weeks.

Found it :) Start at :46



Now I name my computers, iPhone, folders after the Borg -- I even have an: I AM BORG license plate coming in the mail for my new car. (DMV CA accepted the custom license plate) :)


IMO First Contact was one of the best TNG feature films. I loved the pacing in the first 45 minutes, it just seemed to be non-stop.

"Mr Hawk, Pursuit Course!"
 

Mousse

macrumors 68040
Apr 7, 2008
3,648
7,082
Flea Bottom, King's Landing
IMO First Contact was one of the best TNG feature films. I loved the pacing in the first 45 minutes, it just seemed to be non-stop.

"Mr Hawk, Pursuit Course!"
Yep. It had it all, action, drama, humor and a bit of harsh reality. How would the founding fathers look to us in person, unvarnished by flattering lenses of history. The shabby, uncoot individual the Enterprise crew met probably didn't resemble the Zefram Cochrane in the history books.;)
 

Mac'nCheese

Suspended
Feb 9, 2010
3,752
5,109
You know (IIRC), if Riker had just ordered Worf to the security system to attack the borg cube instead of making jokes about his little ship (why was he in the mood to joke around anyway, as thousands of federation beings were being murdered), they never would have had to go back in time.
 
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