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Do you own a Surface device

  • Yes I own a Surface Pro or Surfacebook - it’s great

    Votes: 165 51.2%
  • Yes I own a Surface laptop - it’s great

    Votes: 36 11.2%
  • No - i’m not a fan

    Votes: 69 21.4%
  • Not anymore I had a bad experience

    Votes: 52 16.1%

  • Total voters
    322
Seriously? Have you read any of these threads about various issues? For every person who posts about an issue, the fanboys come out of the woodwork in droves to inform the poster that they don't have the issue and never have had the issue and how everyone one they have ever known and ever will know has never had a problem now or in the future. People posting that they have had no problems aren't rare on MR, they are the majority.

Edit: Especially when you get the posters who will happilly tell you that they have never in their life had a problem with an Apple product, but more importantly they work at a company that has hundreds of them and not a single one of them has ever experienced a single issue in the last 5 years. Not a single one. Fascinating. It is the poor slobs that can only afford to own one at a time that have all the problems :)



I don't disagree that the air has always been overpriced, but now they are making the mistake of putting it in the same price range as the MacBook Pro and that is going to invite direct comparisons as a result. It reminds me of BMW Motorcycles. They always had the BMW F700/750 which was an entry into BMW Motorcycles. Expensive compared to the Japanese brands, but a low price entry to BMW. Now if BMW decided to price the F700/750 at exactly the same price as the 800/850 and both of those only a thousand or so less than the 1200GS, they begin to have a problem. People would then start to compare the specs of the 700 series directly to the 800 series since the price is within $100 and also hey, why not throw the 1200GS into the mix for a $1000 more. Now what was a nice entry point model, begins to look like money poorly spent.

Apple would have done well to keep the Air under a grand and it would probably be a top seller for them. If it is still a top seller at the $1300 price point, it would be beyond me why.

I am not a Surface fanboy either, I only one the one among all manner of Apple products, but I am also not blind to the fact that Apple has some very real and serious issues. I also believe they are suppressing as are many of the forum posters. I don't buy the "overblown claims" or Apples "small number" vagueness.

I used to buy that when I had the display issue with the 2013 13" and they told me a "small number" experience that issue and then it happened again. I sold it before I could find out if it happened a 3rd time. They tell you a small amount experience keyboard issues as they add year after year, model after model to the repair program. People post that they have had issues with 2, 3, 4, or more in a row. It's anecdotal, but really what are the odds of getting that many in a row with failures if the number is as low as Apple claims and the problem is as overblown as some forum posters would have us believe.

I meant overall, for example if someone posts about an issue on this forum, how many people out there in the general population are also experiencing the same issue? We just don’t know is my point. I’m talking in general not a specific issue, we know for example that there are issues with the MacBook Pro keyboards because Apple issued a program, so it’s safe to say there were a BIG number of failures.

What I was saying was that for every person on this forum who posts of an issue there are people out there who don’t visit these sites and are perfectly happy never experiencing an issue, you have to take that into account otherwise it can look worse than what it is, hence why I said something’s can be overblown, the media don’t help and netither do certain Youtubers.
 
Well, at least for a Finn like me the name is rather appropriate now. For after all, when we say in Finnish that something’s got ”ilmaa hinnassa” (air in the price), it means that there’s quite a lot of extra padding in the margins, which is the case especially with Apple’s current Euro prices. Right now I can’t get a similar English idiom into my mind, but if one exists, I’m pretty sure someone corrects me soon enough :)

To me Apple has passed the threshold as it's margins are ludicrous now, if not outright abusive once you get into upgrades. I can live with the price as my notebooks generate revenue for me, equally the value is simply no longer present and I don't like being taken for a fool.

For $4,250 (tax free) I expect basic dongles/adaptors, power cables and AppleCare all to be in the box. What I don't expect is to be nickel & dimed at every possible opportunity and I certainly don't expect all the issues the MBP presently has. Net result Apple has lost both my professional & private custom and my endorsement...

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I meant overall, for example if someone posts about an issue on this forum, how many people out there in the general population are also experiencing the same issue? We just don’t know is my point. I’m talking in general not a specific issue, we know for example that there are issues with the MacBook Pro keyboards because Apple issued a program, so it’s safe to say there were a BIG number of failures.

What I was saying was that for every person on this forum who posts of an issue there are people out there who don’t visit these sites and are perfectly happy never experiencing an issue, you have to take that into account otherwise it can look worse than what it is, hence why I said something’s can be overblown, the media don’t help and netither do certain Youtubers.

I don't disagree, but also as I mentioned in an earlier post, the vast majority of Apple owners don't even know MacRumors exists. I know as members here we would like to think otherwise, but we know it isn't true.

While I agree there are undoubtedly people out there who don't visit these sites and are perfectly happy with their computer and have never experienced a problem. I think you also have to agree that there are people out there who are having an issue and don't know about this site, or don't post on sites and have been dealing with Apple directly or simply making return after return or returning their computers or dropping Apple altogether and going on to something else. We likewise don't know those numbers either. But we can be reasonably sure Apple didn't start a repair program because a few people here or there had a problem.

I think the repair programs and frequent multiple lawsuits are more damning than forum posts, regardless of how people also want to frame those law suites as being frivolous.
 
I don't disagree, but also as I mentioned in an earlier post, the vast majority of Apple owners don't even know MacRumors exists. I know as members here we would like to think otherwise, but we know it isn't true.

While I agree there are undoubtedly people out there who don't visit these sites and are perfectly happy with their computer and have never experienced a problem. I think you also have to agree that there are people out there who are having an issue and don't know about this site, or don't post on sites and have been dealing with Apple directly or simply making return after return or returning their computers or dropping Apple altogether and going on to something else. We likewise don't know those numbers either. But we can be reasonably sure Apple didn't start a repair program because a few people here or there had a problem.

I think the repair programs and frequent multiple lawsuits are more damning than forum posts, regardless of how people also want to frame those law suites as being frivolous.

Yes that’s my overall point, that we just don’t know the numbers. How many devices are sold vs how many have issues, there are people out there who have issues and don’t visit these sites, just like there are people out there who don’t have issues and don’t visit these sites, how many on each side we just don’t is my overall point.

It’s about being objective, something that some do the reviewers are Youtubers are not, it ranges from sites like Forbes who hate Apple and post ridiculous articles, all the way up to people like Talosive Tech and iJustine but at least they admit they are fanboys/fan girls. Personally I don’t mind if someone is an Apple fan or not, all that I ask is that if I spend money on a premium product that it works and lasts a reasonable anount of time.

The reason I like the Mac is because of MacOS, my iMac 2012 has the latest Mojave on it and works great, that’s what I ask for. We might not agree but I think the iPad Pro is getting better and better, iOS needs to mature with more features but it’s definityl getting there.
 
As for YouTubers, I happily ignore the push button or butt kissing vloggers who unfortunately show up in my YT feeds. Lisa Gade and Dave Lee are my two go-tos, as they are usually non-bias while openly mentioning issues, and/or things that clearly irk them. That kind of open-mindedness is most welcome.

I won’t get into the whole overblown debate, because my issues with Apple products & AC and testing of some products has led me to believe that every single issue that discussed has or may happen to folks. No, we do not know the numbers. As if Apple would release them.

How anyone can get comfortable typing on that Butterfly keyboard is quite frankly beyond my understanding, but happy typing to those who haven’t had issues.

The iPad Pro bending (and Apple’s insulting ploy of pretending a clear manufacturing defect is “normal”) shows off everything that breaks my heart about Apple: gimping on build materials and quality control, while passing the buck onto consumers. All while dishing out arrogance at a higher price to pay for services I have no interest in. I tested the 11” and 12.9” 2018 iPP models and was so nervous while drawing, I thought for sure I’d break the ‘magical’ :rolleyes: piece of glass. If you’re going to make everything wafer thin, then think of cooling and build solutions that will prevent the issues some folks are experiencing; this includes Macs.

I am excited about potentially buying a laptop that has figured out these engineering issues, while providing comfort to the consumer.

I just want something that works too. It pains me to be so down on Apple, but it’s just not working. Think I’ll be returning this 10.5 iPP for the budget model again. Already getting too warm and Safari is even worse on this than I remembered. I’ll deal with less memory etc.

Whatever works for you is fine by me. I only want “it just works.” Clearly, I have to work my way back to that, but that’s okay.
 
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:eek: She’s actually a really nice person :)


She is, but her sister is a bit... odd?

The thing is with the YouTubers is you are beginning to see more and more of them lately who are self-professed Apple fans, also posting about Apple issues. Like the lawsuits, and repair programs, those maybe tell us more about the issue than the postings on a fan forum.

Apple doesn't begin these repair programs because Tim loves us, they generally do it because it is the cheaper option than admitting fault and also can mean specifics such as the number of reported incidents never have to be publicized. So they can simply state that they have a repair program in place because a "small number" of computers was affected. Uh huh.
 
:eek: She’s actually a really nice person :)

She's good at what she does, and professional as the following illustrates, however way over the top for my liking, clearly massively biased towards Apple, and personally I think there's more to life than consumer electronics to be so excited about. I far prefer a more balanced mind like Liza Gade from MobileTechReview or Dave 2D.

If I want opinion I want unbiassed opinion, not a follower or believer set on hyping a specific product and or company at all costs, which I believe is part of SteveJUAE's point with other aspects of MR.

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She's good at what she does, and professional as the following illustrates, however way over the top for my liking, clearly biased towards Apple, and personally I think there's more to life than consumer electronics to be so excited about. I far prefer a more balanced mind like Liza Gade from MobileTechReview or Dave 2D.

If I want opinion I want unbiassed opinion, not a follower or believer set on hyping a specific product and or company at all costs, which I believe is part of SteveJUAE's point with other aspects of MR.

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Despite her Apple bias, she *LOVES* the Surface line though. Her video on that is funny and I do love her knife hahaha

Linus from Linus Tech Tips just reminds me of the "Sham Wow" guy. I am going to review the MacBook Pro, but before that let me tell you about Sham Wow!. Austin whatever is name is just an Apple shill. He could do a side by side comparison of the MacBook (non-pro) vs the Asus Zephyrus top of the line model and tell you how the MacBook beats it in his conclusion. Please, dude, stop being a POMA (Prisoner Of Mother Apple).

I think Rossman gets a bad rap on here because so much of his content is anti-Apple, but if you actually watch his videos and listen to what he is saying, he is basing much of what he says on personal repair experiences and isn't that far off base.
 
She is, but her sister is a bit... odd

Which sister? Do you mean Jenna? I can’t comment as i’ve never met her sisters. The thing is Justine is a self professed Apple fan girl and at least she’s honest about it. She does also like many other tech products, she likes the Surface line for example.
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To be honest, though, you had to go to what I would call unnecessary lengths to attract attention to your situation in order to get the customer service you should have received in the first place.

Yes that is true and I did tell that to shane barton on the phone (Apple executive relations guy) he was apologetic and I did receive a new iPad Pro so I kind of forgave them this time, as it’s the first time I’ve ever had bad customer experience from Apple.
 
Which sister? Do you mean Jenna? I can’t comment as i’ve never met her sisters. The thing is Justine is a self professed Apple fan girl and at least she’s honest about it. She does also like many other tech products, she likes the Surface line for example.

Yeah. Seems to me she is trying just a little too hard to be an "internet influencer" and as popular an internet "celebrity" as Justine. Just one opinion among many :)

Edit: Justine is a fellow Pittsburgher though, so she is good with me hahaha
 
Despite her Apple bias, she *LOVES* the Surface line though. Her video on that is funny and I do love her knife hahaha

Linus from Linus Tech Tips just reminds me of the "Sham Wow" guy. I am going to review the MacBook Pro, but before that let me tell you about Sham Wow!. Austin whatever is name is just an Apple shill. He could do a side by side comparison of the MacBook (non-pro) vs the Asus Zephyrus top of the line model and tell you how the MacBook beats it in his conclusion. Please, dude, stop being a POMA (Prisoner Of Mother Apple).

I think Rossman gets a bad rap on here because so much of his content is anti-Apple, but if you actually watch his videos and listen to what he is saying, he is basing much of what he says on personal repair experiences and isn't that far off base.

Linus in small doses, Austin just no even more irritating with less interesting content his Apple fetish he can keep to himself, Rossman gets a bad rap as he's rude ************ oops :p equally as someone with a solid engineering background he's on the money and props to him for calling Apple out as they royally deserve it.

Sanzzy labs getting interesting, majority of the other channels I subscribe to don't cover Apple as it's mostly same old same old; locked in & looked out, dull & boring...

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Yeah. Seems to me she is trying just a little too hard to be an "internet influencer" and as popular an internet "celebrity" as Justine. Just one opinion among many :)

Who :p:p:p

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Jenna Ezarik man. She is a key figure in YouTube Game of Thrones or something like that hahaha

Lisa Gade I like. She is pretty even and balanced. Dave is pretty good as well.

But that latest "e" key video just dropped from one of the self-professed Apple Fans and now people are minimizing him as well. Apple fans will eat their own :)
 
Differences aside, I like this little corner of MR :) You can speak your mind, have sensible debate and not be attacked for just having a differing opinion, boy am I sick of that...

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Jenna Ezarik man. She is a key figure in YouTube Game of Thrones or something like that hahaha

Who :p:p:p

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Hahaha, you win. Honestly just another voice among the many thousands vying for their 5 minutes of fame on YouTube :)

I agree with you though. I get tired of watching everyone who doesn't agree that everything Apple does get eaten alive in the main section. Mostly it is just the computer section too. Whether or not you like or own the watches, there is some decent discussion there.

I have found many of the other manufacturer's forums to be pretty honest too. If Asus or Lenovo messes up, people blast them and call them out in their own forums. They do so a little more on the Apple support forums than they do here as well. I understand this is a "fan" forum rather than a manufacturers forum, but ... wow.

It is almost like going to someplace like United in Orange (a Denver Bronco forum) and trying to suggest maybe there is an issue with the Broncos only winning 4-5 games a year and missing the playoffs again. People are all over you for daring to suggest everything isn't perfect and the loosing is "overblown" hahaha
 
Differences aside, I like this little corner of MR :) You can speak your mind, have sensible debate and not be attacked for just having a differing opinion, boy am I sick of that...

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Who :p:p:p

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Nobody should be attacked for having a different opinion, debates are healthy it’s through debates that people can understand and gain points of view that we may not of already thought of. My best friend is an Android user, he just brought the Pocophone F1, he doesn’t like iPhone and doesn’t understand why I do, we have debated it many times but we are still friends and we still respect each other :)

A lot of it is about being grown up and understanding that other people will not always agree with you, that’s fine in fact i encourage that, it would be really boring if everyone were to agree all the time :eek::cool::D
 
My best friend is an Android user, he just brought the Pocophone F1, he doesn’t like iPhone and doesn’t understand why I do, we have debated it many times but we are still friends and we still respect each other :)

I can appreciate why someone would want to own/buy an Android phone. I have looked at them myself a number of times. But what about those strange folks who still buy BlackBerry phones? ;)

Just joking about that, but a buddy of mine will still only buy BlackBerry phones and he ribs me about my iPhone and doesn't understand why anyone would buy one and vice versa. Of course, we have that same debate about GPS vs Maps for ride planning....
 
So the iPad Pro is going back in a few minutes...

I won't be surprised if I come home with a w10 machine I said is not for me. :p:rolleyes::p

Indecision
I'm suffering
from Indecision
Look out Win (10)

I know you're wishing
That I'd make up my mind

So all you HPs and Surface machines
Here I come for you
Or not...
What's a gal to do...
The Indecision
:confused::eek::confused:

(Apologies to Mel Brooks as I truly bastardized the Inquisition song from History of the World Part I)

Thank you all for the patience and we can all laugh at this down the line. Or maybe right now?:D
 

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So the iPad Pro is going back in a few minutes...

I won't be surprised if I come home with a w10 machine I said is not for me. :p:rolleyes::p

Indecision
I'm suffering
from Indecision
Look out Win (10)

I know you're wishing
That I'd make up my mind

So all you HPs and Surface machines
Here I come for you
Or not...
What's a gal to do...
The Indecision
:confused::eek::confused:

(Apologies to Mel Brooks as I truly bastardized the Inquisition song from History of the World Part I)

Thank you all for the patience and we can all laugh at this down the line. Or maybe right now?:D

You know, its a process. If you're like many of us, you spend a *lot* of time interfacing with your computer, so it is important to find the one that works best for you. Just keep in mind there is never going to be "the one" that is perfect in every way. You just need to take stock of the pros and cons of each and figure out for yourself which shortcomings you can live most with while enjoying the positives.

If you go digging too deep on any of them and/or spend too much time searching for problems or negative reviews you will be sure to find them. Instead, I would focus on which issues can most easily be dealt with. For example, if you find the Lenovo SSD a bit slow, it will take you 10 minutes to replace it with a Samsung 970 Evo, but if you can't live with the keyboard, or display or repairability, that another issue altogether.

I will be interesting to hear what you choose in the end. For every one of us the best computer is going to be different. You will know you have found the right one when you do :)
 
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You know, its a process. If you're like many of us, you spend a *lot* of time interfacing with your computer, so it is important to find the one that works best for you. Just keep in mind there is never going to be "the one" that is perfect in every way. You just need to take stock of the pros and cons of each and figure out for yourself which shortcomings you can live most with while enjoying the positives.

If you go digging too deep on any of them and/or spend too much time searching for problems or negative reviews you will be sure to find them. Instead, I would focus on which issues can most easily be dealt with. For example, if you find the Lenovo SSD a bit slow, it will take you 10 minutes to replace it with a Samsung 970 Evo, but if you can't live with the keyboard, or display or repairability, that another issue altogether.

I will be interesting to hear what you choose in the end. For every one of us the best computer is going to be different. You will know you have found the right one when you do :)

Quoted for truth. Thank you. Very wise words. I also think my idea of starting small and moving up from there is the best thing for me right now. Diving into an Asus RoG as a Windows newbie is not the best idea.

As I looked around Best Buy, I realized all I really need are a great keyboard and screen: those are my priorities now that I gave up on the 2-in-1. I’ll live without dedicated graphics until I am ready to step up. As you say, some internals can be upgraded, but you’re stuck with a meh display or uncomfortable keyboard. Having encountered both with that Acer, I came away with a Surface Laptop 2 (8gb, 256).

No, it’s not a dessert topping and a floor wax :p. Plus, Best Buy has them for $200 off right now which will pay for MS Complete.

Will buy MS Complete for it at the MS store tomorrow. They couldn’t activate it over the phone. Thankfully, the rep said it was on their end. :D

I’ll open it tomorrow night once I have the Complete warranty. And, yes, it’s Black. :D They did not have the Burgundy at this Best Buy.

I’ll put aside the desktop replacement and just enjoy this and learning the new system.

Glad I gave the Surface Laptop 2 another look. :)
 
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Quoted for truth. Thank you. Very wise words. I also think my idea of starting small and moving up from there is the best thing for me right now. Diving into an Asus RoG as a Windows newbie is not the best idea.

As I looked around Best Buy, I realized all I really need are a great keyboard and screen: those are my priorities now that I gave up on the 2-in-1. I’ll live without dedicated graphics until I am ready to step up. As you say, some internals can be upgraded, but you’re stuck with a meh display or uncomfortable keyboard. Having encountered both with that Acer, I came away with a Surface Laptop 2 (8gb, 256).

No, it’s not a dessert topping and a floor wax :p. Plus, Best Buy has them for $200 off right now which will pay for MS Complete.

Will buy MS Complete for it at the MS store tomorrow. They couldn’t activate it over the phone. Thankfully, the rep said it was on their end. :D

I’ll open it tomorrow night once I have the Complete warranty. And, yes, it’s Black. :D They did not have the Burgundy at this Best Buy.

I’ll put aside the desktop replacement and just enjoy this and learning the new system.

Glad I gave the Surface Laptop 2 another look. :)


Awesome! MS also has the $200 off currently as well, so if you aren't buying from BB based off a store credit and really have your heart set on Burgundy, they can also give you that offer. That said, I really *do* like the black magnesium alloy MS uses.

The Asus ROG is a highly performant beast, but also probably requires a little more tuning and tweaking than the SL2, so you may be on the right track with keeping it simple and keeping it cheaper for now until you decide for sure that Windows is right for you and which direction you eventually want to go with a "desktop replacement"

Small steps are always the easiest when learning something new. Don't get your motorcycle endorsement and then run right out and buy a Ducati Panigale just because you can :)
 
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Awesome! MS also has the $200 off currently as well, so if you aren't buying from BB based off a store credit and really have your heart set on Burgundy, they can also give you that offer. That said, I really *do* like the black magnesium alloy MS uses.

The Asus ROG is a highly performant beast, but also probably requires a little more tuning and tweaking than the SL2, so you may be on the right track with keeping it simple and keeping it cheaper for now until you decide for sure that Windows is right for you and which direction you eventually want to go with a "desktop replacement"

Small steps are always the easiest when learning something new. Don't get your motorcycle endorsement and then run right out and buy a Ducati Panigale just because you can :)

Ah. That’s great MS had them on sale too. I had the BB credit from the iPad return, and I really like the black so I am happy it all worked out.

Yes, I am glad that common sense prevailed. Baby steps. I can stage dive into a RoG etc. when I am ready.
 
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I can appreciate why someone would want to own/buy an Android phone. I have looked at them myself a number of times. But what about those strange folks who still buy BlackBerry phones? ;)

Just joking about that, but a buddy of mine will still only buy BlackBerry phones and he ribs me about my iPhone and doesn't understand why anyone would buy one and vice versa. Of course, we have that same debate about GPS vs Maps for ride planning....

I'm not an Android fan at all, i use to have Android a while back and i hated it. BlackBerry, i thought they were dead and gone ;) :rolleyes:

My whole Apple introduction started with the iPod, i was only a teenager at the time and i was brought the iPad Nano 4th gen (one with the screen) as a birthday present, it was just fantastic, i can remember thinking it was the best thing i ever owned! :) from there my next Apple product was the iPhone 3GS, then the MacBook Pro 2011, iPad 3, my iMac 2012, Apple Watch original Series 0, Apple TV and the latest edition is the HomePod. That's the order not including all the iPhone's and iPad models i have owned in-between.

I don't really go by the word Apple Fanboy because i do criticise Apple when i need to or think they have messed up, hence the email i sent to Tim Cook and Phil Schiller regarding my iPad Pro 2017 which resulted in me getting a call from Apple Executive relations (it just shows that there emails do get read).

Some of my friends are Android fans, others are Apple fans who own even more things than i do :eek: one of my best friends who edits for a living loves his 2016 Macbook Pro, he even loves the less loved Touch Bar (he says he can edit faster with it). Each to their own and as i say nobody is hurting anyone else so why be upset or offended at someones choice or opinions :p:D
 
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