wow that sucks. Hopefully it doesn't completely ruin your experience with the IPP.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Surface Pro 4 vs iPad Pro and the future of pro tablets
- Thread starter Wiesenlooser
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
wow that sucks. Hopefully it doesn't completely ruin your experience with the IPP.
hmm I doubt they underestimated demand. I would guess there is some shortage of raw materials used in the pencil. Reason why I say this, I don't think the Pencil should take long to manufacture. Hence if they had all the raw materials available they should be able to pump them out quickly. However this is just a guess :/
My co-worker just got an IPP/Keyboard/Pencil, and I was able to play on it for a short while. Very nice device. He's into graphic designing/art, so this is perfect for him.
Bummer. I'm sure they thought they were doing you a favor but in reality, I'd be frustrated too, especially as now your return windows won't match up--hell, you'll have to decide to keep the iPP before ever using the Pencil.
I'd personally refuse the delivery (not sure if that's an option in Ireland) to have it returned to Apple and if you're still inclined to try it out, reorder closer to your expected delivery of the Pencil.
got a chance to play with the surface pro 4 on a thanksgiving trip
Something from the surface line will be my next PC, looks perfect for me for work use as well. full remote admin capabilities vpn / domain support the whole schabang - it felt very smooth and fluid using touch input, which I imagine I would primarily use - though I enjoyed the keyboard as well and would definitely want it. I would say it was quite close if not matching ipad level scrolling smoothness. I don't use my PC to game anymore so the surface pro looks quite perfect for me (or if I do the integrated graphics will suffice).
When I eventually replace my ipad air gen1 (which I am still quite happy with) it will likely be with a future gen Mini (maybe a new gen nexus 7-8 we shall see), along with a friendly sized 6S makes me a happy camper
Something from the surface line will be my next PC, looks perfect for me for work use as well. full remote admin capabilities vpn / domain support the whole schabang - it felt very smooth and fluid using touch input, which I imagine I would primarily use - though I enjoyed the keyboard as well and would definitely want it. I would say it was quite close if not matching ipad level scrolling smoothness. I don't use my PC to game anymore so the surface pro looks quite perfect for me (or if I do the integrated graphics will suffice).
When I eventually replace my ipad air gen1 (which I am still quite happy with) it will likely be with a future gen Mini (maybe a new gen nexus 7-8 we shall see), along with a friendly sized 6S makes me a happy camper
Seriously? I gave real life examples.
Don't even bother to quote me if you don't have meaningful real-life examples to support your thesis.
Whatever you say, you don't pay my bills.
What do you do for a living?
The iPad is an end-user device.
Users need functionality, not filesystems.
Users need to store their documents, search, etc. not filesystems to manage.
That's were we are going. And doesn't matter what naysayers say. It's better for the consumer, it's where the industry is going.
The same kind of arguments were made over and over again as technology has evolved.
If we were in the late 80's, you would the kind of people who would say that what we really need is two diskette drives, and there's no need for an hard disk.
USB drives, which were replaced with Dropbox.
some industries are not permitted (or prefer to avoid) to use cloud storage FWIW... gotta worry about that cybersecurity risk assessment
or they dont have adequate bandwidth to utilize cloud storage (for remote use perhaps)
external storage isnt dead IMO
dont understand what is so scary about filesystems. even on ipad when viewing your docs it is a filesystem. it just doesnt let you outside of that apps filesystem directory sandbox. If you jailbreak your device, you will see a 'documents' folder inside every app with whatever data you have added/worked on in the app. Apple is just hiding stuff from the user and not letting one app read another apps documents without going through the share menu which copies said document to the other apps' documents folder thus creating duplicate files in separate folders (i just dont see how this is better). And any changes made in the second app cannot be viewed in the original app without using the share menu to reimport that file back into the original app... its just clunky.
I'm sure icloud drive works well enough but it has no place in enterprise windows environments IMO - I'm not even sure if it integrates with windows at all?
I dont believe ipads can connect to enterprise environments with access to their user files/docs through some psuedo-icloud drive feature but that would be ideal.
this is a pro thread, so I assume we are talking about doing work.. where IMO it is easier to do work with access to the filesystem (or at least some subset of the filesystem). Are you suggesting it is easier to do work under the ios model?
personally i would much rather have my pro device hooked in full fledged w/ domain access and everything that comes with it
though ios is fantastic as a supplemental tool and I love it, but it doesnt replace my work laptop - which is why im attracted to the surface
or they dont have adequate bandwidth to utilize cloud storage (for remote use perhaps)
external storage isnt dead IMO
dont understand what is so scary about filesystems. even on ipad when viewing your docs it is a filesystem. it just doesnt let you outside of that apps filesystem directory sandbox. If you jailbreak your device, you will see a 'documents' folder inside every app with whatever data you have added/worked on in the app. Apple is just hiding stuff from the user and not letting one app read another apps documents without going through the share menu which copies said document to the other apps' documents folder thus creating duplicate files in separate folders (i just dont see how this is better). And any changes made in the second app cannot be viewed in the original app without using the share menu to reimport that file back into the original app... its just clunky.
I'm sure icloud drive works well enough but it has no place in enterprise windows environments IMO - I'm not even sure if it integrates with windows at all?
I dont believe ipads can connect to enterprise environments with access to their user files/docs through some psuedo-icloud drive feature but that would be ideal.
this is a pro thread, so I assume we are talking about doing work.. where IMO it is easier to do work with access to the filesystem (or at least some subset of the filesystem). Are you suggesting it is easier to do work under the ios model?
personally i would much rather have my pro device hooked in full fledged w/ domain access and everything that comes with it
though ios is fantastic as a supplemental tool and I love it, but it doesnt replace my work laptop - which is why im attracted to the surface
Last edited:
Thanks Guys, yeah guess I'm just frustrated with both the delay and the principal that if you choose to have something shipped together explicitly and ticked the box to accept that this would delay the order - they really should have sent an email asking if I wished to change my mind and prefer it shipped now rather than just the 'presumption'....
Likewise the frustration of staring at something for 5 weeks unable to use it for what you chose to purchase it for.
Oh well. I'll post a quick impressions and unboxing when it arrives anyway.
Likewise the frustration of staring at something for 5 weeks unable to use it for what you chose to purchase it for.
Oh well. I'll post a quick impressions and unboxing when it arrives anyway.
Why do you keep referring to hardware storage? We are talking about file systems and UI, not hardware storage. Who cares about diskette drives and tape storage? It's obvious the medium of storage changes, I don't get the repeated comparisons to the hardware mediums used in the 60s or the 80s.
Going back to filesystems, the functionality you describe is STILL a filesystem. I think you are just discussing semantical differences. You still have to access a file, which is "stored" somewhere, where you are really only accessing a graphical representation of where it is stored. The only difference is you are advocating that the graphical representation is inside of the app, versus having a universal file manager. Big whoop, it's not a particularly incredible advancement of computing and consumer UI. What is interesting to me is that OSx still uses that universal file system UI that you seem to dislike so much. Should Apple change over to an app based file system like iOS? Why does OSx, which is Apple's MUCH more powerful OS retain a file system? What major players have we seen abandon OSx and their file system in favor of iOS file system (yes once again they BOTH have file systems).
I'd rather have universal file manager, it gives me the flexibility to store my files according to my needs. I can store something based on who sent it to me, or by date, or by my connection to it, just a few examples, as opposed to being tied to that particular app. I can also store files in more than one location, as files can be used for different purposes. Sorry, but I'm not ready to dumb myself down, fortunately I'm smart enough to be able to use an universal file system, although in all honesty it's not rocket science.
It's STILL a filesystem.
Then the iOS has an user-acessible filesystem.
It's not limited to DropBox and iCloud Drive, you can have local-only storage, FTP, SFTP, Windows Shares, etc...
It's STILL a filesystem.
Then the iOS has an user-acessible filesystem.
It's not limited to DropBox and iCloud Drive, you can have local-only storage, FTP, SFTP, Windows Shares, etc...
I still don't get it, you are showing us a... file system! It is still hierarchal, but now you are forced into storage based on the app. Managing files, which seems to be what you are against, is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid. You are still managing files in iOS, just in a different paradigm, which isn't really that much different just much more limited.
I get it, you like the inflexibility of iOS. For a consumption device I suppose being that simple can be palatable for some. I'm not denigrating your choice, I'm just saying that for me it is too dumbed down and takes away too many options in managing my files. I've LONG ago stopped limiting myself to a consumption device, that's why I could never go back to an ipad. I'm not saying it's not a great device for many of you, just not for me. Choices and flexibility is what it's all about for me. Often the lack of choice and lack of flexibility creates MORE complexity instead of less. The ipad was too complex for me to use specifically because it lacks that choice and flexibility. I was always looking for a work around for silly things like email attachments, or organizing my files, etc.
Last edited:
NO!
Thing is... it doesn't need to be hierarchical.
The App developer can do anything they want on that window. As long as they retrieve a document.
Oh first world problems MRU
But that is daft, Amazon have the option and they stick to it so you get everything on the same day, but at least you can watch some Netflix or whatever on the nice screen? I gather you are an arty type of person so it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the iPad Pro and stylus pencil when you get it.
To be honest I really cannot see what their problem is? Why make a device aimed at the arty type of pro person, and then make like 10 of the add on devices that every one of those arty customers wants to use?? Don't get why Apple is so incapable of making enough Pencil's in it's Chinese factory lines? And at it's price it's hardly the sort of thing Apple would purposely hold back on to drive up demand?
Yep that's basically my thoughts too. Either this was a major oversight or they have run into serious supply / manufacturing constraints, of not one but two of the main accessories they premiered the device with.Oh first world problems MRU
But that is daft, Amazon have the option and they stick to it so you get everything on the same day, but at least you can watch some Netflix or whatever on the nice screen? I gather you are an arty type of person so it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the iPad Pro and stylus pencil when you get it.
To be honest I really cannot see what their problem is? Why make a device aimed at the arty type of pro person, and then make like 10 of the add on devices that every one of those arty customers wants to use?? Don't get why Apple is so incapable of making enough Pencil's in it's Chinese factory lines? And at it's price it's hardly the sort of thing Apple would purposely hold back on to drive up demand?
That's all logistics, and as Tim Cook was and is, as we were always told; a 'logistics man', then serious answers need to be addressed for these failures ...
I think his point is you don't need to see the file system. There are people here saying that the iPad Pro needs a file system. His point is that you don't. Obviously it has a file system already that is not accessible to users from a technical perspective but whether apps or users need access to it is what he is trying to debate. He is saying that if you use something like a DMS, you don't need to "see" the file system. Whether its managed in the backend as a file system is besides the point, he just doesn't believe you need to see the file system to make the device usable.
I am in the camp that would like to have a file system native to IOS (like you). I would prefer it if the devices had access to a central file system that you can see and control, so I could get dropbox to store documents in a file system that I can view, and get onedrive/sharepoint to do the same.
But on the same level, I can understand why someone may not agree, or why a company may not want that situation. Most companies use ECM solutions for that exact reason, because users hoard documents on local devices, edit content without updating central servers, etc. When the leave, the content is gone which is why companies now implement ECM solutions, to manage content centrally and ensure that users retrieve content centrally where collaboration can taken place. Users are not always smart, so companies have to cater for the lowest common denominator.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. Where do files and content go when they go to the cloud? Is it your position that they are just floating around somewhere in space? Kinda like well.....in the clouds! LOL
They still go to enterprise NAS, SAN storage solutions that have file systems. The systems are either NTFS, NFS, Mixed-Mode mounted on network appliances that can be scaled to meet needs. The data is stored files systems.
How it gets presented to end users such as yourself varies.
But just stop with this whole thing.....you really need to educate yourself on distributed storage.
The ipad pro looks like an excellent pro device for the creative sectors indeed.
I just don't see how it competes with the surface in other industries that tend to use Windows based networks and infrastructure. File system mechanics are part of that for me.
I just don't see how it competes with the surface in other industries that tend to use Windows based networks and infrastructure. File system mechanics are part of that for me.
[MOD NOTE]
Please stop the bickering and get back on topic.
Please stop the bickering and get back on topic.
Having been exposed to file manager and Sharepoint (similar to iOS limitations) in the enterprise the latter has more cons than pros. Hiding the file manager from the user might work for a user with zero experience but for most people familiar with tried and true file manager there's a thing called OPEX cost for retraining users and additional cost of errors introduced from a new process. I hated having to flip flop between different apps to do the same thing that a universal file manager can do plus the forced Internet Explorer is less reliable than File Explorer. Same can be said about having to download, waste premium NAND storage and DRAM to run different apps to view different web sites when a universal tabbed browser makes much more sense.
Last edited:
The use of an ECM solution is mandatory in most organisations these days so if you're not using something like a SharePoint (or other vendor), you could find yourself down the proverbial path for lack of another word. I.e. Any document on your machine could be subject to retention/disposal through government legislation.
Arguing that's it hard to train users is about as pointless as explaining to the tax office the reason your company got their tax information wrong is because they were using excel instead of an accounts package because accounting packages are too hard to learn and excel is so much more familiar.
Arguing that's it hard to train users is about as pointless as explaining to the tax office the reason your company got their tax information wrong is because they were using excel instead of an accounts package because accounting packages are too hard to learn and excel is so much more familiar.
Video of a real pro using one of these devices. Think and do different...
Seriously! I had been a happy Mac user since '05, but had dreamed of touchscreen music production since the original iPhone. Sure, there some music apps that are cool, but you always hit a dead end in what they're capable of. No fully functional, production program in iOS. I've given up hope that apple will develop a touchscreen COMPUTER, but meanwhile love my Surface Book. All the more impressive was I could do things like this with a Surface Pro, as I did before this. But the bigger screen is ideal.
Last edited:
Yeah because professional recording studios would never use macs or Apple products
Seriously another of your 1 angle 1 agenda posts.
Yeah because professional recording studios would never use macs or Apple products
Seriously another of your 1 angle 1 agenda posts.
WTF? I thought it was a great post, I didn't see any agenda or mac/Apple bashing. Woke up a bit paranoid today?
No. With mi7chy there is ALWAYS an underlying attempt to bash Apple at every opportunity. A cursory glance at his post history is testament.
Knowing that - read the post. It's clear there is an underlying dig emphasised by 'a real pro' which in this context is to imply that the iPad Pro is not a 'pro' device by the fact that it's a Windows device in the video, likewise the 'Think and Do different' comment at the end an obvious play on the Apple marketing term twisted here to suit his agenda.
The bias is obvious.
Sorry I agree with Spinedoc you need to go for a walk...