Surface Pro 4 vs iPad Pro and the future of pro tablets

[TheMissionMan]

Been playing around with the iPad Pro in terms of offline documents and synchronisation and it's actually not that hard a problem to solve if you try to understand the problems and the best way to solve it. The biggest challenge for me was trying to deal with the number of sources of data. i.e. on your laptop/mac, you have dropbox, google drive, one drive, sharepoint, etc.

Ultimately to achieve a file system you can navigate, you need to consolidate these without consolidating them. I.e. have one single location to view them but keep them separate if possible.

This was actually surprisingly easier than I expected. I started by trying to get a decent offline tool for sharepoint, but although a number of them offline sharepoint content, the moment you have large volumes of content, they actually aren't that great. Dropbox on the other hand is great in terms of file synchronisation, but terrible from an iPad perspective because their app doesn't actually allow you to offline a folder. Eventually I found the answer with a tool called cloudhq and readdle documents.

Readdle documents allows you to offline dropbox on your iPad with folder structures and cloudhq allows you to consolidate all your cloud accounts to a single dropbox account so by using these two, you get all your content onto your iPad Pro, offline editing, ongoing synchronisation and you can open in whatever app you want. It does result in some duplication on your mac but this is easily solved by not using one drive (which is dismal anyway) as all of your one drive documents are now synced into a folder in dropbox called Office 365. It even syncs subsites which is great.

Now, the above is not dissimilar to anyone who runs multiple machines. I.e. if you had a mac/pc at home and a laptop, you would need to synchronise them so it's probably a negligible additional effort.

 

[tbayrgs]

So I just watched the review of the Pixel C over at the Verge and realized that is exactly how Apple should have designed their smart keyboard for the iPP--complementary design to its accompanying tablet, closes flush and smooth, has adjustable viewing angles, yet can be easily removed when you just want tot use the tablet.

 

[Blaze4G]

So I just watched the review of the Pixel C over at the Verge and realized that is exactly how Apple should have designed their smart keyboard for the iPP--completely design to its accompanying tablet, closes flush and smooth, has adjustable viewing angles, yet can be easily removed when you just want tot use the tablet.

Wow, I thought the same thing when I saw the Verge review last night. Aluminium built, easy to adjust, easy to put on and take off. Simply put it seems to work seamlessly and is one of the best designed keyboards in the tablet/laptop hybrid segment. This is what I would expect from apple, but instead we got what we have now.

A glaring flaw that keeps popping up in reviews with the pixel C is its software (like the IPP). It is too limited, especially since the Pixel does not support split windows out of the box which is just stupid imo. I guess it is not too bad since the pixel was not advertised as a direct laptop replacement or a Pro ...or was it?
I don't see the Pixel C being a big seller either, which will limit App development for it.

 

[TheMissionMan]

Wow, I thought the same thing when I saw the Verge review last night. Aluminium built, easy to adjust, easy to put on and take off. Simply put it seems to work seamlessly and is one of the best designed keyboards in the tablet/laptop hybrid segment. This is what I would expect from apple, but instead we got what we have now.

A glaring flaw that keeps popping up in reviews with the pixel C is its software (like the IPP). It is too limited, especially since the Pixel does not support split windows out of the box which is just stupid imo. I guess it is not too bad since the pixel was not advertised as a direct laptop replacement or a Pro ...or was it?
I don't see the Pixel C being a big seller either, which will limit App development for it.

Agree on the keyboard. The one Apple provides is dismal.

On the software front, I tend to disagree. Right now it is, but I don't think it will in 2 years. I think as tablet OS's improve, so will the apps. I don't think they will ever compete with the real power users, but within two years I think they will be competing with the general desktop users in everything they can achieve.

 

[tbayrgs]

Agree on the keyboard. The one Apple provides is dismal.

On the software front, I tend to disagree. Right now it is, but I don't think it will in 2 years. I think as tablet OS's improve, so will the apps. I don't think they will ever compete with the real power users, but within two years I think they will be competing with the general desktop users in everything they can achieve.

People have been saying this about the tablet experience on Android for years now yet it's still pretty dismal. This is certainly no 'Pro' or laptop replacement--heck, it's really not even a very strong iPad competitor, and that's saying something. When Google treats the tablet experience as the 'redheaded step child' of its portfolio, it's a bit difficult to take it very seriously. And it's a shame because the Pixel C hardware looks pretty damn nice.

 

[Blaze4G]

Agree on the keyboard. The one Apple provides is dismal.

On the software front, I tend to disagree. Right now it is, but I don't think it will in 2 years. I think as tablet OS's improve, so will the apps. I don't think they will ever compete with the real power users, but within two years I think they will be competing with the general desktop users in everything they can achieve.

Well I just read an AMA and a member of the Pixel Team says split screen is coming soon as well as other features. Developers plays a big part in software for tablet. Unfortunately developers tend to neglect android on phones, even more on tablets. With Ipad Pro I could see iOS having a better chance to improve if Apple allows it to.

TL;DR improvements to iOS on tablets is being held back by Apple. Improvements to Android on tablets is being held back by software developers.

 

[mi7chy]

A glaring flaw that keeps popping up in reviews with the pixel C is its software (like the IPP). It is too limited, especially since the Pixel does not support split windows out of the box which is just stupid imo.

Stock Android supports connected background multitasking so it's about even at this point although for people that rely on tools like SSH/telnet, RDP, VNC, file/media server, etc. background multitasking is more important. When Google flips the switch to enable foreground multitasking we'll see if Apple can answer with background multitasking. For now, Samsung does both.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...y-experimental-multi-window-mode-for-tablets/

As for the Pixel C, I don't see why Google didn't just make it bigger so they can fit a full size keyboard. The attachment mechanism, wireless charging, key travel, etc. do look nice though but I'll hold judgement until I can get hands on.

 

[Blaze4G]

Stock Android supports connected background multitasking so it's about even at this point although for people that rely on tools like SSH/telnet, RDP, VNC, file/media server, etc. background multitasking is more important. When Google flips the switch to enable foreground multitasking we'll see if Apple can answer with background multitasking. For now, Samsung does both.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...y-experimental-multi-window-mode-for-tablets/

As for the Pixel C, I don't see why Google didn't just make it bigger so they can fit a full size keyboard. The attachment mechanism, wireless charging, key travel, etc. do look nice though but I'll hold judgement until I can get hands on.

I agree. Many persons do not realize how useful connected background multitasking is. I can't see Apple implementing this in iOS anytime soon. It does drain a decent chunk of battery imo.

Again I agree with your second statement. Making it a bit bigger would have been nice / better imo.

 

[TheMissionMan]

People have been saying this about the tablet experience on Android for years now yet it's still pretty dismal. This is certainly no 'Pro' or laptop replacement--heck, it's really not even a very strong iPad competitor, and that's saying something. When Google treats the tablet experience as the 'redheaded step child' of its portfolio, it's a bit difficult to take it very seriously. And it's a shame because the Pixel C hardware looks pretty damn nice.

What functionality is missing from an OS (non-app) perspective that is holding the device back?

Most accounting/erp systems are now available in cloud based versions.

Most document systems have web based and mobile access.

I have a file system on mine now thanks to Documents (Readdle)

The point is, other than power user apps, most of what you need to do you can now do on a mobile device. It may be more clunky to do it now, but you can still do it. In time this will get better.

TL;DR improvements to iOS on tablets is being held back by Apple. Improvements to Android on tablets is being held back by software developers.

I think Apple is more meticulous about functionality before they release. They won't release something until they are happy with the way the functionality works because users will expect it to work the same way long term.

 

[jamezr]

People have been saying this about the tablet experience on Android for years now yet it's still pretty dismal. This is certainly no 'Pro' or laptop replacement--heck, it's really not even a very strong iPad competitor, and that's saying something. When Google treats the tablet experience as the 'redheaded step child' of its portfolio, it's a bit difficult to take it very seriously. And it's a shame because the Pixel C hardware looks pretty damn nice.

Agree with this the tablet experience on Android leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[spinedoc77]

People have been saying this about the tablet experience on Android for years now yet it's still pretty dismal. This is certainly no 'Pro' or laptop replacement--heck, it's really not even a very strong iPad competitor, and that's saying something. When Google treats the tablet experience as the 'redheaded step child' of its portfolio, it's a bit difficult to take it very seriously. And it's a shame because the Pixel C hardware looks pretty damn nice.

Yep, I've been hearing this mantra for years now. Tablet apps are still pretty much blown up phone apps across the board. Ironically Microsoft is one of the few who have improved functionality on their tablet apps on iOS/android.

 

[MRU]

Yep, I've been hearing this mantra for years now. Tablet apps are still pretty much blown up phone apps across the board. Ironically Microsoft is one of the few who have improved functionality on their tablet apps on iOS/android.

iPad apps are generally far more enhanced for extra real estate and functions over the iPhone variant and there is still a big difference between iOS tablet experience and Android. Often the android App has no enhancement to even make use of the extra real estate leaving you a very peculiar app experience with spacing issues, alignment and size irregularities.

Majority of IOS apps on iPad haven't suffered that issue for a long long time whilst it still persists on many Android apps.

 

[gotluck]

IMO with respect to tablets, Windows has made it very difficult for android. Why would I accept the limitations of android when I can have full windows? From the surface pro to this unbranded bestbuy 10" tablet from cowboom I got for $50 (that has windows 10 and is updated regularly ), IMO windows has android tablets beat at every pricepoint. It will be interesting if Windows can ever do the same for phones.

chromebooks seem to have a better value / performance ratio versus android tablets too if you are looking for lighter uses

the iPad has battery life and tablet centric apps with a genuinely smooth experience. 'hardcore' users would argue that you should go windows tablet but I think the ipad has a much heavier argument versus android.

 

[TheHateMachine]

How do you feel? Where do you think the Pro tablet market will go? And who will get first to the "sweet spot" ? what are your thoughts on microsoft and the surface line? Pls no hates and bashes

I think the market will swing more in favor of the Surface Pro line. I honestly do not see the iPad Pro gaining much traction in business. We stopped purchasing iPads about 5 months ago at my hospital. We used to give out Desktop/Laptop and iPads to all officers, directors, managers and physicians and now we are pulling all 3 of those items back and replacing them with Windows 8.1 Surface Pro 3s with a dock and dual monitors.

One of our biggest physician offices also swapped out all of their physician desktops and laptops for heavy duty cased Surface Pro 3s. So far everyone likes em (especially radiology) and we are saving quite a bit of money. We don't have any plans to pick up iPad Pros.

 

[aneftp]

I think the market will swing more in favor of the Surface Pro line. I honestly do not see the iPad Pro gaining much traction in business. We stopped purchasing iPads about 5 months ago at my hospital. We used to give out Desktop/Laptop and iPads to all officers, directors, managers and physicians and now we are pulling all 3 of those items back and replacing them with Windows 8.1 Surface Pro 3s with a dock and dual monitors.

One of our biggest physician offices also swapped out all of their physician desktops and laptops for heavy duty cased Surface Pro 3s. So far everyone likes em (especially radiology) and we are saving quite a bit of money. We don't have any plans to pick up iPad Pros.

Just basics like Citrix to access patient data is not user friendly on iPad app.

But pricing is an issue for surface for hospital.

iPads cost $400-500. Surface with keyboard for base models are pushing $1000 for newer base models ($899 plus $130 keyboard).

 

[mi7chy]

Just basics like Citrix to access patient data is not user friendly on iPad app.

But pricing is an issue for surface for hospital.

iPads cost $400-500. Surface with keyboard for base models are pushing $1000 for newer base models ($899 plus $130 keyboard).

Isn't the Surface 3 in the same price category and it includes the pen?

 

[spinedoc77]

iPad apps are generally far more enhanced for extra real estate and functions over the iPhone variant and there is still a big difference between iOS tablet experience and Android. Often the android App has no enhancement to even make use of the extra real estate leaving you a very peculiar app experience with spacing issues, alignment and size irregularities.

Majority of IOS apps on iPad haven't suffered that issue for a long long time whilst it still persists on many Android apps.

I agree iOS apps on tablet are a bit better than Android apps, mainly making somewhat better use of the larger real estate. Beyond that I don't see either of them as being much better universally, although I'm sure an example or two exist out there. Keep in mind I'm also comparing both of them to my windows experience which blows both of them away by a significant margin, at least for the apps/programs I use the most. YMMV depending on what you use.

 

[aneftp]

Isn't the Surface 3 in the same price category and it includes the pen?

It's not if you are trying to compare generations.

For that you would have to compare iPad Air (1) (msrp $399). with surface (non pro) 3 (msrp $499 minus a keyboard ($130). And yes the keyboard is almost required on the surface lines so that adds to the price. The keyboard has never been marketed in the iPad line until the iPad pro which is supposedly a whole different category.

 

[mi7chy]

It's not if you are trying to compare generations.

For that you would have to compare iPad Air (1) (msrp $399). with surface (non pro) 3 (msrp $499 minus a keyboard ($130). And yes the keyboard is almost required on the surface lines so that adds to the price. The keyboard has never been marketed in the iPad line until the iPad pro which is supposedly a whole different category.

iPad Air 2 with 2GB DRAM is more comparable to Surface 3 2GB while iPad Air 1 only has 1GB. And, why would an app written to run on a touch iPad without keyboard magically require a keyboard when ported over to a touch Surface 3?

 

[I7guy]

It's not if you are trying to compare generations.

For that you would have to compare iPad Air (1) (msrp $399). with surface (non pro) 3 (msrp $499 minus a keyboard ($130). And yes the keyboard is almost required on the surface lines so that adds to the price. The keyboard has never been marketed in the iPad line until the iPad pro which is supposedly a whole different category.

Serious work requires a keyboard. I have two b/t keyboards, one Apple keyboard and a led projection keyboard I travel with. The keyboard on the sp4 is pretty good, fwiw.

 

[TheMissionMan]

Serious work requires a keyboard. I have two b/t keyboards, one Apple keyboard and a led projection keyboard I travel with. The keyboard on the sp4 is pretty good, fwiw.

Let's rephrase that. Your idea of serious work requires a keyboard. I know of plenty of tablet apps for serious work that don't require a separate keyboard.

SAP work manager is one, for mobile maintenance users. If you think the user base isn't big, consider that the vast majority of the top 500 companies in each country would be running SAP for core ERP or Plant Maintenance. Most of the biggest manufacturing environments use SAP.

SAP also has hospital apps before you say its not relevant

 

[I7guy]

Let's rephrase that. Your idea of serious work requires a keyboard. I know of plenty of tablet apps for serious work that don't require a separate keyboard.

SAP work manager is one, for mobile maintenance users. If you think the user base isn't big, consider that the vast majority of the top 500 companies in each country would be running SAP for core ERP or Plant Maintenance. Most of the biggest manufacturing environments use SAP.

SAP also has hospital apps before you say its not relevant

Serious office knowledge worker requires a keyboard imo. A serious graphic artist may not require a keyboard on an ipp. Tough but not impossible to write scads of text without a keyboard as in Fortune 500 back-office workers.

 

[AustinIllini]

Serious office knowledge worker requires a keyboard imo. A serious graphic artist may not require a keyboard on an ipp. Tough but not impossible to write scads of text without a keyboard as in Fortune 500 back-office workers.

The question is whether or not certain service jobs require a keyboard and whether or not the iPP's size is too much. My wife is a physician, and I can see a company like AllScripts running their software on an iPad Pro, however I can't picture my wife walking around with an iPad Pro.

 

[gotluck]

Most of my remote work as an it admin can be done without a physical keyboard, but I need full windows for certain company specific core programs that aren't available on other platforms because the vendor just doesn't support it. Everyone is different really

Of course I'd rather have a keyboard for long sessions, but most of my remote stuff is short duration

 

[TheHateMachine]

Just basics like Citrix to access patient data is not user friendly on iPad app.

But pricing is an issue for surface for hospital.

iPads cost $400-500. Surface with keyboard for base models are pushing $1000 for newer base models ($899 plus $130 keyboard).

Yea they are more expensive, one of the ways we justified it was the fact that we were no longer giving out a $600 desktop, a $800 laptop and a $400 ipad. The Surface bundle we put out is about $799 for the tablet, $100 for the kb cover and $175 for the dock. We got some good discounting from our supplier since we order about 10 of these bundles at a time.


It also doesn't hurt that we make close to $10 million a year in profits. Our finances give us the wiggle room.

We also were given a directive after I made that post. Every user who normally would have received just a laptop is now getting a surface bundle. This means anyone who is not a nurse, housekeeper or maintence worker is going to get one of these.

The only problem i personally have with this is something we ran into with Apple products here. We normally use a vendor for warranty in house repair or if it was fast we would do it ourselves. Now we have to mail devices to get serviced. The turn around is usually quick but the type of warranty we have with HP usually has a technician out same day or next to replace failed parts. Granted we have a Microsoft store in Houston but I don't have the time to load up the devices and drive across town and then have to drive back the next day to pick them up. Since we are going to be passing these out like candy now, I can see a fair amount of damages in our future.