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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,963
4,259
1809 doesn't really like my Netstor :(

(TB AIC is in the Mac Pro, not in the Netstor, but I only get a blue screen at the beginning, and then the Mac restarts)
Which Netstor do you have?

BIOS booting doesn't work with some PCIe devices in my Mac Pro 2008 and it's EFI booting doesn't work with Windows (but does work with Ubuntu).

Does EFI booting work for Windows in the Mac Pro 2012? The Mac Pro 2012 did get a new firmware with Mojave so I wonder if that changed anything or if EFI booting worked previously?

Try installing Windows with nothing extra installed (one hard drive, one graphics card, no other PCIe devices)
 

itdk92

macrumors 6502a
Nov 14, 2016
504
180
Copenhagen, Denmark
Which Netstor do you have?

BIOS booting doesn't work with some PCIe devices in my Mac Pro 2008 and it's EFI booting doesn't work with Windows (but does work with Ubuntu).

Does EFI booting work for Windows in the Mac Pro 2012? The Mac Pro 2012 did get a new firmware with Mojave so I wonder if that changed anything or if EFI booting worked previously?

Try installing Windows with nothing extra installed (one hard drive, one graphics card, no other PCIe devices)

Windows and TB work fine without the netstor, but I need it as well. For now I removed Thunderbolt.

Also, I actually don’t know exactly what the following terms mean :/

EFI - booting
UEFI - booting
BIOS - booting
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,963
4,259
Windows and TB work fine without the netstor, but I need it as well. For now I removed Thunderbolt.

Also, I actually don’t know exactly what the following terms mean :/

EFI - booting
UEFI - booting
BIOS - booting
What is the model of the Netstor? What is in the Netstor?


Windows can boot using two methods:
1)
BIOS: This is a compatibility mode - your Mac GPT partitioned disk may be a hybrid containing both a GPT and MBR partition map. The MBR partition map includes the Windows partition which is set as the active partition. The MBR is the first block of the disk. The MBR contains boot code which will execute more boot code from the first block of the active partition. This mode is used when you hold option at startup and select "Windows". There is one "Windows" option per disk that contains an MBR with boot code. Selecting a Windows partition in Startup Disk preferences panel sets an nvram parameter that points to the disk. Multiple Windows partitions may exist on a disk, but the MBR only boots the partition that is marked as active in the MBR. The rEFInd boot loader has code that will set the active partition if you select a partition that is not active.

BIOS mode on my Mac Pro only understands USB drives, the built-in DVD drives, and the built-in four hard drive bays. Other drives may confuse it.

2)
EFI: This is the method of booting used by macOS and also works with Ubuntu. For macOS, a file is blessed (a field in the HFS or APFS format). An nvram parameter points to the default blessed hard drive/file. The file is an EFI executable - boot loader. The file is executed by EFI firmware. Windows requires a certain version of EFI called UEFI. On older Macs, the EFI contains parts of UEFI but not enough to make Windows work correctly. Newer Macs have UEFI that allows booting Windows. The EFI firmware loads a file called bootx64.efi in the boot folder of the EFI folder of the EFI partition (usually the first partition of a GPT partitioned disk). There will also be a Microsoft folder containing a Boot folder containing the BCD which contains the boot options for Windows.

If you have multiple EFI boot loaders, then there will be a folder for each (Microsoft and Ubuntu) and the BootX64.efi file will be a copy of one of the efi files in one of those folders.

When you hold option during startup, you may see "EFI Boot" which refers to the BootX64.efi file.

EFI understands and works with any drives that have a EFI driver. EFI drivers can be easily added.

Use the following command to list all your disks:
Code:
diskutil list

Use the following command to examine the MBR partition map of a disk:
Code:
sudo fdisk /dev/disk0
A GPT partitioned disk will only have one EE type partition that covers the entire disk. This is a protective partition map so that old disk partitioning programs that think your disk is MBR will think that there are no free blocks.

A hybrid MBR/GPT disk will have an EE partition in the MBR that only covers everything up to the end of the EFI partition. Up to three other partitions can exist in the MBR. Extended partitions (a method to have more than 4 partitions) is usually not used with hybrid disks. One of the three other partitions will correspond to your Windows partition (or whatever OS that boots using BIOS) and will be marked as active (has an * next to the partition number).

Use the following commands to examine the GPT partition map of a disk:
Code:
sudo gpt -r show -l /dev/disk0
sudo gpt -r show /dev/disk0
The -l option shows the partition names (stored in the GPT). These may differ from the volume names (stored on the volume).
Without the -l option, it shows the partition type GUID. The MBR is shown as PMBR which is the protective MBR partition map. The GPT table has two copies on the disk in case one gets corrupted.

A hybrid MBR/GPT disk will show MBR for the first block. the gpt command will say "suspicious MBR at sector 0".

Use the following command to examine the boot code in the MBR:
Code:
sudo dd if=/dev/rdisk0 count=1 | xxd
An MBR that doesn't have boot code will be mostly zeros. The partition map is the part near the end that is not all zeros. An MBR has bytes "55AA" at the end of the block.

Use the following commands to examine the VBR of a partition:
Code:
sudo dd if=/dev/rdisk0s1 count=1 | xxd
The VBR is the first block of a partition. It may help identify the type of partition (for example, NTFS partitions have NTFS near the top. A VBR containing boot code usually starts with "EB" which is a jump instruction. An EFI partition has BIOS boot code that explains that the partition is "Non-system disk. Press any key to reboot".



There is a program called EasyBCD that can be used to edit the BCD. The BCD uses GUIDs to identify partitions. EasyBCD translates these to drive letters to make it easier to understand. If Windows boots using BIOS, then your Windows partition has a Boot folder containing the BCD. Press Command-Shift-Period to view hidden files folders in macOS. Windows also has an option to show hidden system files and folders in the View options.

The /EFI/Microsoft folder for EFI booting in the EFI partition should contain the same files plus some efi files. The BOOTX64.EFI file in /EFI/BOOT/ is a copy of the bootmgfw.efi file.

It may be enough to copy the BCD to the EFI folder, and place the missing *.EFI files but I don't know. You may need to boot the Windows installer, go to the command line, use diskpart to mount the EFI and Windows partions, then use the repair commands to remake the bcd in the EFI partition.

bootrec is used to rebuild the bcd:
https://neosmart.net/wiki/winman/bootrec/
Rebuild the BCD on the EFI partition for EFI booting. Rebuild the BCD on the Windows partition for BIOS booting.

bootsect is used to fix the boot code of the MBR and VBR (for BIOS booting):
https://neosmart.net/wiki/winman/bootsect/
 

Bion1nc

macrumors member
May 3, 2014
39
31
Alright I was able to pull the 2 Winbond ships the blue and green marked. Attached the 2 .BINs
and I am looking on my side what's inside and someone can do the same that has better knowledge than I, I haven't really looked into it ... but I'm just starting ...
 

Attachments

  • winbond blue.BIN.zip
    530.5 KB · Views: 145
  • Winbond Green.BIN.zip
    110.3 KB · Views: 205

rawweb

macrumors 65816
Aug 7, 2015
1,126
943
Bumping this... any good/bad news to report, brave and intrepid explorers? The potential for TB audio on my cheesegrater continues to intrigue.

I've kind of given up for the time being. Booting Windows to enumerate isn't horrific, but my primary use was going to be to use one of my LG UltraFine 5k displays, and unfortunately the added hassle of having to power cycle the monitor every time was too much. I worried I might destroy the plug socket in the back since the monitor doesn't have a power button.

In theory, you could use this with your audio gear so long as you boot to Windows first.
 

alchemistics

macrumors member
Dec 27, 2018
86
84
Switzerland
Dear Fellows.

I follow this thread for a while.

The time has come and here I have a MacPro 5,1 12 core.
Just upgrading it to a Radeon 7970.

What is the best known way to connect the LG Ultrafine 5k Monitor (which is standing here as well) to it?

Based on this thread I'm not sure now. Should I get the GC ALPINE RIDGE (with the lack of USB and Brightness controls?) or the TITAN RIDGE (with supported controls, by warm-booting it).
The progress with the TITAN RIDGE sounds very promising.

Does the GC ALPINE RIDGE indeed lack any way of controlling brightness?
Does the 7970 work with the 5K conversion, it has 2x mDP?

I appreciate any advice and thank you all for the valuable information.
 

NoLemon

macrumors member
Dec 25, 2018
83
9
World
Dear Fellows.

I follow this thread for a while.
.

Same here, as far as I understand what was posted here, the two cards Alpine and Titan work sort of, if booted into Windows first.

Now what is sort of exactly ?
Is there certain parts of TB3 not working, or is it more like a hit and miss,
one time it works one time it doesent ?

If hit and miss, there is most likely no good reason trying, and everything below this point is useless.

If certain functions are not working it might be interesting for many people to know which ones work and which ones dont.

Interesting to know would also be, which card works better.

More information, regarding how well it work would be highly appreciated.

I for example, only would use it for a Thunderbolt Audio Interface, i dont need the hot plug, display port, or USB3 features, for a TB interface its just the PCI if im not mistaken.

Lets assume it works WELL for a Aaudio interface, i had a idea how to minimize the rebooting hassle.

I dont know Windows that well, but if there would be a way to boot into a minimal windows installation, then have automatically a script run which after the init of the TB3 card restarts into OSX. As far as I know, if on a cMP windows is directly installed, then the bootchamp drivers are installed in that windows installation, there is a boot drive chooser to boot back into OSX. So if that script in windows, could reboot the machine into OSX, we could have the Boot drive in OSX set to Windows. Although I dont know, if the OSX bootdrive is chosen in Windows it also changes the boot drive in OSX. If it does change it, possibly a Automator script in OSX, starting automatically, changing the boot drive back to Windows, if that is possible at all, I dont know Automator either.

Cheers
Lemon
 
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rawweb

macrumors 65816
Aug 7, 2015
1,126
943
Same here, as far as I understand what was posted here, the two cards Alpine and Titan work sort of, if booted into Windows first.

Now what is sort of exactly ?
Is there certain parts of TB3 not working, or is it more like a hit and miss,
one time it works one time it doesent ?

If hit and miss, there is most likely no good reason trying, and everything below this point is useless.

If certain functions are not working it might be interesting for many people to know which ones work and which ones dont.

Interesting to know would also be, which card works better.

More information, regarding how well it work would be highly appreciated.

I for example, only would use it for a Thunderbolt Audio Interface, i dont need the hot plug, display port, or USB3 features, for a TB interface its just the PCI if im not mistaken.

Lets assume it works WELL for a Aaudio interface, i had a idea how to minimize the rebooting hassle.

I dont know Windows that well, but if there would be a way to boot into a minimal windows installation, then have automatically a script run which after the init of the TB3 card restarts into OSX. As far as I know, if on a cMP windows is directly installed, then the bootchamp drivers are installed in that windows installation, there is a boot drive chooser to boot back into OSX. So if that script in windows, could reboot the machine into OSX, we could have the Boot drive in OSX set to Windows. Although I dont know, if the OSX bootdrive is chosen in Windows it also changes the boot drive in OSX. If it does change it, possibly a Automator script in OSX, starting automatically, changing the boot drive back to Windows, if that is possible at all, I dont know Automator either.

Cheers
Lemon

In my experience with the titan ridge card discussed in this thread, as long as you first boot to windows, then warm boot to MacOS, it will work. For an audio interface or hard drive device, you shouldn’t experience any difficulty using the warm boot technique described in this thread.
 

skizzo

macrumors 6502
Apr 11, 2018
260
83
This makes me want to get my hands on a Clarett 8PreX to test Thunderbolt 3 with an audio interface. It would obviously pair quite nicely with my existing Clarett 8Pre :)

Without going through this whole thread again, did anyone exclusively state they have tried an audio interface and if so what model with what DAW?
 

alchemistics

macrumors member
Dec 27, 2018
86
84
Switzerland
So I flashed my 7970 to get bootscreen and installed a copy of windows 10 (which was a big hassle, took me around 10 attempts to have it all stable, not booting installer, black screen due faulty W10 automatic driver update, no boot drive error etc.).

However, now I am ready for the warm boot scenario.
The titan ridge is on its way (will take about 2 weeks shipping to switzerland).
I'll test the LG 5K functionality and report back.

I had to buy two additional (short) mDP to mDP cables cause my GPU only has mDP connections.
Also I'm interested if a multi-monitor (combined with a cinema 30") will work. And of course the brightness is a MUST, USB-C Ports are nice to have.

Primarily I'll use this setup for FCP X and am really looking forward for this build. Added 64GB Ram and a Sonnet USB-C card. Additionally what I can test is a t.c. electronics (Desktop Konnekt 6) audio interface (over TB3 to FW Adapter).

If the LG5K will work and the warm boot is part of it, I'll probably write a script which takes care of booting into win and then automatically into MacOS.

In any case, thanks to the community I dare to go this route. This really adds lots of value to every existing or future 5,1 users.
 
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rawweb

macrumors 65816
Aug 7, 2015
1,126
943
So I flashed my 7970 to get bootscreen and installed a copy of windows 10 (which was a big hassle, took me around 10 attempts to have it all stable, not booting installer, black screen due faulty W10 automatic driver update, no boot drive error etc.).

However, now I am ready for the warm boot scenario.
The titan ridge is on its way (will take about 2 weeks shipping to switzerland).
I'll test the LG 5K functionality and report back.

I had to buy two additional (short) mDP to mDP cables cause my GPU only has mDP connections.
Also I'm interested if a multi-monitor (combined with a cinema 30") will work. And of course the brightness is a MUST, USB-C Ports are nice to have.

Primarily I'll use this setup for FCP X and am really looking forward for this build. Added 64GB Ram and a Sonnet USB-C card. Additionally what I can test is a t.c. electronics (Desktop Konnekt 6) audio interface (over TB3 to FW Adapter).

If the LG5K will work and the warm boot is part of it, I'll probably write a script which takes care of booting into win and then automatically into MacOS.

In any case, thanks to the community I dare to go this route. This really adds lots of value to every existing or future 5,1 users.

Pay close attention to some of my posts on page 3 of this thread. My guess is you will not be able to drive the 30” in addition to the LG UltraFine @ true 5k. Especially considering your using a 7 year old GPU over dp 1.2. With my RX 580 the UltraFine went 4K scaled up to 5k while my 27” ACD was connected to the extra passthru on the titan ridge. My trusty mDP - active D-DVI adapter did not produce an image on the 27” connected to the 580s DVI port, curious to hear if it will work with your 30”, especially on a much older card. Also, the UltraFine requires power cycling to display image in my setup. You might want to rig a power strip to the top of your desk to do this.
 
Last edited:
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alchemistics

macrumors member
Dec 27, 2018
86
84
Switzerland
Pay close attention to some of my posts on page 3 of this thread. My guess is you will not be able to drive the 30” in addition to the LG UltraFine @ true 5k. Especially considering your using a 7 year old GPU over dp 1.2. With my RX 580 the UltraFine went 4K scaled up to 5k while my 27” ACD was connected to the extra passthru on the titan ridge. My trusty mDP - active D-DVI adapter did not produce an image on the 27” connected to the 580s DVI port, curious to hear if it will work with your 30”, especially on a much older card. Also, the UltraFine requires power cycling to display image in my setup. You might want to rig a power strip to the top of your desk to do this.

Ok, thanks for the hints.

I'll test it. Either way, driving one LG5K would be sufficient for me.

The 7970 is indeed old, but surprisingly capable @ around twice the performance of my MBP 15 2017 with a 560.
I thought about replacing it with a VEGA56 but if I see this right, all except the one-fan (reference) model will cover up and therefore block one pci slot, right?
 

chrisvalezi

macrumors newbie
Jan 7, 2019
1
0
This makes me want to get my hands on a Clarett 8PreX to test Thunderbolt 3 with an audio interface. It would obviously pair quite nicely with my existing Clarett 8Pre :)

Without going through this whole thread again, did anyone exclusively state they have tried an audio interface and if so what model with what DAW?

im Just whaintg my Tb3 Tb2 adapter come from Apple delivery and i will test whit and Antelope Orion Studio Rev 2017, i will post some pic to hellp some friends out, especially Slate Vrs8 Customers.
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,963
4,259
No breakthrough here, still booting into Windows to initialise the Titan Ridge card.
True, but nice to see a video of someone with a working setup.

I think he said that he's booting Windows 10 using UEFI. Is that possible with the latest Mojave provided firmware for the MacPro5,1 or is he mistaken? I didn't see any BIOS booting text (or BIOS flashing cursor), but that may be just because the graphics card doesn't support startup display on the Mac Pro. UEFI booting into Windows is not necessary for initiating Thunderbolt functionality; BIOS booting is sufficient. Different boot modes described at #153
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,454
13,601
True, but nice to see a video of someone with a working setup.

I think he said that he's booting Windows 10 using UEFI. Is that possible with the latest Mojave provided firmware for the MacPro5,1 or is he mistaken? I didn't see any BIOS booting text (or BIOS flashing cursor), but that may be just because the graphics card doesn't support startup display on the Mac Pro. UEFI booting into Windows is not necessary for initiating Thunderbolt functionality; BIOS booting is sufficient. Different boot modes described at #153
Yes, it's nice to see it working. He is using a non Mac EFI GPU, a Gigabyte RX-580.

It's possible to use Windows UEFI boot with any Mac Pro firmware, the problem is the SecureBoot signing of the firmware and corruption with some firmware versions, at least MP51.0087.B00, have.
 

NoLemon

macrumors member
Dec 25, 2018
83
9
World
The need for a reboot is not so great, i dont think its possible with out reboot, unless the EFI can be programed to make booting with THB3 stick.

I really do not know if these things are possible, just throwing ideas.

How about a small 32GB SSD, for example hooked to the CD/DVD port, starting a stripped and minimized Windows, with just whats needed to run the Thundebolt software, running a automated script (?) at startup which, starts the THB programm cklicks the right button and changes the startup disk which restarts to Mac OS.
In Mac OS we could have the same thing (?) at startup with a Automator script just changing the startup disk back to Windows ?

Or if there is ever going to be a Linux driver, so the same could be done in Linux, which would be much faster booting especially if it is a stripped Linux.

That would be not such bad a drag, except for the longer boot up process.

Or,
there may be a way, doing this with a virtual machine Windows ?
As far as I know virtual machines can access some of the Hardware.
That way it would be just a Mac reboot.



The windows THB application, seems to change some setting somewhere,
probably in UEFI, and since the Mac doesent have UEFI, it doesent stick.

If I remember right, for the 32EFI Macs, some one found a way, to bypass (?) or detour the 32 EFI to the 64EFI, which was installed on the HD and it booted the Mac just fine.
Could there be a way, to install a UEFI, just like the 64EFI was in the older cMP ?

[doublepost=1547894666][/doublepost]
It's possible to use Windows UEFI boot with any Mac Pro firmware, the problem is the SecureBoot signing of the firmware and corruption with some firmware versions, at least MP51.0087.B00, have.

A while ago, I have read some posts, where you fixed peoples EFI.
Is that Just this FW MP51.0087.B00 or later ones also ?
What happens if it is corrupted ?
Isnt the last Mojave FW immune for corruption ?

Im asking, because I always installed Windows directly on a seperate disk and added the Boot Champ drivers later. Bootchamp never really worked chrashes didnt want to install and such
So far there where no problems.

My firmware is FW MP51.0084.B00 and I installed Windows 7 only.
 
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tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,454
13,601
A while ago, I have read some posts, where you fixed peoples EFI.
Is that Just this FW MP51.0087.B00 or later ones also ?
Confirmed, MP51.0087.B00. Can happen with others.
What happens if it is corrupted ?
Malfunction initially, like boot loops and trouble powering up, then later total corruption of the SPI flash/brick.
Isnt the last Mojave FW immune for corruption ?

No, far from that. We are seeing that a lot of people who had NVRAM corruption are bricking installing the new firmwares.

Im asking, because I always installed Windows directly on a seperate disk and added the Boot Champ drivers later. Bootchamp never really worked chrashes didnt want to install and such
So far there where no problems.

My firmware is FW MP51.0084.B00 and I installed Windows 7 only.
Only Windows 8.1 and 10 can be installed into UEFI mode. Windows 7 don't have SecureBoot.
 
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