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The 2016-2017 Football Thread
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"Thrashing" was the verb used in some of the broadsheets in their reports on the match.
However, I was struck by the fact that Mr Mourinho - entirely characteristically - lashed out at Antonio Conte after the match - accusing the Chelsea manager of 'trying to humiliate' him. Characteristically clueless and spectacularly lacking in grace.
Needless to say, this misses the point completely - Mr Conte did nothing of the sort. Yet, yes, there was a touch of schadenfreude at Mr Mourinho's humiliation, but his conduct at Chelsea last season - attacking both fans and players - contributed to this.
The fact that he cannot see this, and fails to see why he wasn't warmly welcomed back the way he had been when he first showed up at Stamford Bridge with Inter Milan in 2010 - a few years after he had been sacked at Chelsea for the first time - shows that he has learned nothing,
Nevertheless, this was a sweet victory for Chelsea, delivered with more than a touch of conviction.
Mourinho on the same points as Moyes had at the same point in the season (this is a story that will run and run)...
Just as with Moyes and LVG, there is a more thoughtful minority who point out that most great managers like Ferg and Shankly had rough patches early on and that we don't give managers enough time. I agree with that, though it would also be unfair to give Mourinho more time than Moyes and LVG were given. There is also historical precedent for short-termists, though: Béla Guttman never stayed more than three seasons anywhere, and yet won silverware on numerous occasions, including European Cups.
As for Mourinho being angry with Conte for "humiliating" him, that is quite rich from a man willing to poke someone in the eye on television.
Just as with Moyes and LVG, there is a more thoughtful minority who point out that most great managers like Ferg and Shankly had rough patches early on and that we don't give managers enough time. I agree with that, though it would also be unfair to give Mourinho more time than Moyes and LVG were given. There is also historical precedent for short-termists, though: Béla Guttman never stayed more than three seasons anywhere, and yet won silverware on numerous occasions, including European Cups.
As for Mourinho being angry with Conte for "humiliating" him, that is quite rich from a man willing to poke someone in the eye on television.
Of course, I agree that managers, in general, need time - not least, just to be able to find their feet, impose their authority, and persuade the team to follow their vision.
Moreover, your point is well taken that great managers such as Alex Ferguson, Bill Shankly, - and indeed Arsene Wenger - were all given sufficient time to settle, think, plot a course and set about persuading others to follow them. That time is necessary to build great teams, and craft winning mindsets, patterns of behaviour, and traditions; such things cannot be expected to develop overnight.
However, these days, it is not just that managers are no longer given the time - let alone adequate time - to try to do this. Nor, is it that clubs will more readily fire managers first when things go wrong - a short term solution if ever there is one, and utterly wrong headed if one wants to design some sort of secure foundations upon which to build lasting success.
Instead, it is that the values of almost immediate or instantaneous success - particularly success that is achieved swiftly (often as a result of having had access to vast funds) have become deeply embedded in parts of the Premier League, so that the older traditions of growing and nurturing a team with deep roots in the team and the region are now seen as quaintly old fashioned, and a form of luxury that takes too long to come to fruition.
Re Mr Mourinho, I think it is not just the denial of 'natural justice' if he is given more time than were either LvG or David Moyes - I think the lack of time considered appropriate for a manager to build a successful team has become scandalous, and managers are often unfairly made the scapegoats for when things go wrong, and over-paid players fail to perform.
Rather, it is that he himself is the very epitome of the concept of short term advantage, of a model of team building that is best described as slash and burn, leaving a scorched earth behind him. It is not just that Mr Mourinho is a deeply unpleasant man, it is that the model by he achieves success comes at a very high cost - one that is not solely financial - and one that leaves much by way of destroyed wreckage behind.
The most interesting thing about yesterday's match was the strong sense that the Chelsea football team (and indeed, fans) were out to teach him a lesson, - and make a few points - and that lesson - and those points - were delivered with panache, precision and conviction.
For Mr Mourinho, two things must be of concern.
The first concerns the length of his 'honeymoon' period, which coincides with his period of most success when he takes over the management of a new club. This period seems to be getting shorter and shorter, with each successive club, and - hazarding a guess - uniquely, in a situation where Jose Mourinho is in the first year of his tenure in a new club - I do not see Manchester United offering a serious challenge for a title.
That may change, but, for now, there is a surprisingly tetchy tone and bemused bewilderment to Mr Mourinho's utterances in Old Trafford - the sort of tetchy tone that more often marks his last year in a club, shortly before an acrimonious departure - rather than the first year, which is more usually marked by profuse declarations of mutual admiration and respect from players and coach.
This is the first time ever I get the sense that Mr Mourinho does not 'control' the dressing room, even though the budget he was given to spend was stratospheric. And that brings me to the second point of concern: Mr Mourinho is no longer the 'bright new kid' in managerial terms; he is a known quantity, and the media have others who are newer and more intriguing to write about, individuals such as Mr Conte, Mr Guadiola, Mr Pochettino, and even Mr Klopp.
Plus, the endless negativity and nihilism of Mr Mourinho's previous periods as manager in England and elsewhere may be finally catching up with him.
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Not much to be learned from the latest Manchester Derby...Mourinho struggled to beat a Man City B team. It will be a morale booster of sorts for Man Utd, but I suppose Pep would argue that he has bigger fish to fry in Europe.
Monk has worked miracles this season, 16 points from the last 8 league games is magnificent form and a trip to Anfield awaits in the cup. Great stuff 
No bloody words! This is why one mustn't take any team for granted, no matter the competition...
We simply changed gear today, within 6 minutes 24 seconds! Sitting top of the table (for now)...
The Reds with a very Liverpool-like win, leaking a couple goals but banging in four. Mourinho with another bad day at the office.
Liverpool were very impressive, superb - and slick - and creative in attack; they are a very good team, and have real potential this season. Yes, the defence leaks, but - for now - Spurs appear to have the opposite issue - a stunning defence but an attacking line up that lacks sufficient power and penetration.
Arsenal were excellent, and Mr Mourinho could not restrain himself.
What is striking is that tho evident unhappiness and tetchiness is taking place so early in his tenure at Manchester United.
I just want Mourinho fired, before May 2017! Besides racism, he is the worst part of football...
Oh and we (Arsenal) need to batter Man Utd in a few weeks.
Oh and we (Arsenal) need to batter Man Utd in a few weeks.
From what I saw yesterday, MU are quite capable of battering themselves, with some help from Tom Heaton.
B
The funny thing is, the penalty shout that he got sent off arguing over was't even a penalty. The ref probably got the call right. Mourinho's surrogate at the post match interviews was that rat, Rui Faria, who crawls around after Mou to every job he takes. What despicable little attack dog of a man.
Actually, Paul Wilson has a very good piece - entitled "José Mourinho behaving at Manchester United exactly as critics said he would" - which addresses that particular topic among others - in a blog in today's online edition of The Observer (I have the print version beside me on the sofa).
Slight catch 22 this, no? More than likely Rui Faria was asked by Mourinho, to accept said position at each club he moved to.
In a way, one has to respect that a Manager knows who he best works with, etc., no?
In a way, one has to respect that a Manager knows who he best works with, etc., no?
Well, as my wise old grandmother - a wonderfully gifted schoolteacher - used to say, "Show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are".
Whether Rui Faria 'crawls around after' Mr Mourinho, or is - or has been - asked, encouraged and persuaded to do so by the same Mr Mourinho, is almost moot.
They are a matched pair and have sought out and found one another.
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I didn't mean that Faria stalks Mourinho's professional life - more that he is like a villainous sidekick. I'm sure he and Mou are bosom buddies.
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