The Car Thread ... !

[2298754]

Plus, none of them are going to cost $35,000 and most of the people who order today won't qualify for the tax deduction. And the thing won't ship for over two years.

That's a good point.

Another issue is EV resale. Has anyone looked at resale values of the i3, Leaf, and Volt? They are heinously bad.

With Tesla basically controlling the used Model S market, we don't know what the real-world value of used ones are currently.

 

[2298754]

115,000 orders already made in the last 24 hours

 

[Cnasty]

Not a fan of the grill but other than that it looks like an amazing vehicle. Obviously the interior is in prototype mode right now. It reminds me of a Porsche Panamera somewhat.

115k preorders already
Double super charging locations by release date
Standard auto pilot hardware
Standard super charging
215 mile range minimum
Base model 0-60 less than 6 seconds
Room for 5 adults comfortably

The matte black looked fantastic imo.
http://imgur.com/a/TBAi1

 

[2298754]

 

[lowendlinux]

I'll own electric when its available to retro fit in existing cars

 

[AustinIllini]

The interior is just alright. There's still a lot we don't know about this car.

 

[Cnasty]

The interior is just alright. There's still a lot we don't know about this car.

Agreed. Not a fan. I am thinking it will get a face lift as it progresses but also think it may have been where they could cut the most for pricing.

During the periscope test drives they asked about it and were told they only wanted one screen but who knows the end game.

 

[bunnspecial]

And it looks even dumber now, seeing the price of gas. And it's also not that much cleaner.

The often overlooked issue with electric(and hydrogen, which was all the rage a few years ago) is that electricity doesn't materialize out of thin air. Okay, maybe it does for about 20 square miles of Indiana outside Lafayette, but that's the exception .

Around here, coal is still the dominant power source(supplemented by hydro when water levels allow), and an abundance of cheap, low sulfur coal keeps our electric prices low(I think I paid $.075/KWh on my last electric bill). Fine Appalachian bituminous is one of the best around in terms of emissions(following Pennsylvania Anthracite, which is too expensive for power-most is used for steel followed by home heating) but it's still a relatively dirty technology and it's hard to retrofit a power plant to cut down on emissions. They've done a lot to keep fly ash under control(and again good eastern US coals are also low ash to start with) but SOx is still an issue even with low sulfur coal.

By contrast, vehicles have refined emissions so much-between fuel injection and catalytic converters-that the exhaust gas stream is predominately carbon dioxide and water. Anyone who doubts this is welcome to sniff the tail pipe of my 1970 MG with minimal emissions controls compared to any 5 year old car of their choice. In fact, I get funny looks when I'm working on the MG because tail pipe sniffing is one of my tuning methods

 

[D.T.]

Like I posted in the main news thread, the interior is such a deviation from a more traditional, driver engaged design, I can't even get my head around it. I mean, my knee jerk reaction is I don't like it at all.

Someone brought up the car instrumentation being way off centered was a poor design choice, and I agree (some guy said he looks out the side of his car to keep it centered on the road to justify this design, hahahah ...)

The exterior is so uninspired, it's a simple wind tunnel design, I mean, I guess the idea is transportation and features over character, but I'd never buy at this stage because there's zero of the latter.

 

[Cnasty]

Up to 198k pre orders and climbing. It is an instant success already and will only grow once the average consumer gets to see it in person and see the quality of the Tesla product.
Musk released a timeline in 2010 I believe he has done every single on that timeline that he has outlined.
Looking at almost $8billion in based on average price mix and what options are chosen on the 3.
The demand is there and now they can raise capital and create more factories, super charging stations, and they will have institutional investors lining up to give them money.

Everyone keeps saying they are going bankrupt which is laughable. They are in the positive in cash flow now, earnings and estimates for next year are off the charts, and will be ridiculous beyond that as they release more and continue to create.

Sure they lost money initially but so did Amazon for many years with reinvestment.

This is an absolutely astonishing success story and to raise that much money in a day and a half is downright amazing.

The haters will continue to hate on Tesla and Musk but to be blind eyed and not recognize what is occurring as successful is just being ignorant.

That's my 2 cents as a fan of the company and as someone that does nothing but finances everyday and linked to the market.

 

[2298754]

Someone brought up the car instrumentation being way off centered was a poor design choice, and I agree (some guy said he looks out the side of his car to keep it centered on the road to justify this design, hahahah ...)

I wonder if there's some secondary gauges higher up (like in a Prius) or Tesla will come out with a HUD.

 

[2298754]

The exterior is so uninspired, it's a simple wind tunnel design, I mean, I guess the idea is transportation and features over character, but I'd never buy at this stage because there's zero of the latter.

The Mission E is what an EV should look like

[doublepost=1459544056][/doublepost]

Everyone keeps saying they are going bankrupt which is laughable. They are in the positive in cash flow now, earnings and estimates for next year are off the charts, and will be ridiculous beyond that as they release more and continue to create.

I don't think you realize how much R&D/tooling actually costs. Even if all goes according to plan, they can't just crank out Model 3s left and right. It's not that easy. Judging by the simplicity of the interior, it looks like they're not even close to being finished with the car yet.

There's a reason why GM/Toyota got rid of NUMMI. That plant has the capacity of 500k cars a year. If GM or Toyota couldn't afford to run that plant at half capacity, how will Tesla?

http://www.strategyand.pwc.com/global/home/what-we-think/innovation1000/top-innovators-spenders

[doublepost=1459544245][/doublepost]

Musk released a timeline in 2010 I believe he has done every single on that timeline that he has outlined.

And that timeline has been way off for years now. Model S was plagued with numerous production delays and the Model X is not even close to full capacity yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_X

Initially Tesla planned for deliveries to commence in early 2014.[6]However, in February 2013, the company announced that deliveries had been rescheduled to begin by late 2014 in order to achieve its production target of 20,000 Model S cars in 2013.[7] In November 2013, Tesla said it expected to begin Model X high volume production the second quarter of 2015.[8] In November 2014, Tesla again delayed and announced that Model X deliveries would begin in the third quarter of 2015.[9] Deliveries began on September 29, 2015. Among the reasons for delay were problems with the falcon-wing doors and cooling the motors when hauling trailers

 

[Cnasty]

I don't think you realize that they have secured $7.5 billion in reserves for a car that is going to be 2 times easier to produce than an X or S, has developed the capacity to create ion lithium batteries faster and more efficient than any other maker in the world, and has a financial backlog to secure their spot for development for years to come.

Please stop reading the likes of Wikipedia and articles that are slanted and look at the numbers and cash Tesla has on hand as well as they have been generating cash and not losing as multiple posters have incorrectly stated here already.

They are positive for cash flow this year and have future rated well above for next and beyond.

Sure there will be delays and production changes. These buyers don't care because they see what Tesla has released and done and the brand loyalty is there which is seeping into the average American.

All with zero paid marketing.

It's astonishing and please recognize the feat versus being a hater to the success. And you're "we will see" but but but excuses.

Good talk

 

[iLog.Genius]

To be honest, the only thing I'm interested in with Tesla is their planned infrastructure and how other manufactures will collaborate and follow. Tesla's do nothing for me aesthetically. Performance is there but use it and you're looking at a depleted battery quickly. Drive it responsibly, it's another electric car. I commend Musk for his thinking and pushing alternative energy onto cars but I'd settle for ICE now and wait for one of the bigger marques come with at the very least, a more aesthetically pleasing car.

 

[2298754]

Please stop reading the likes of Wikipedia and articles that are slanted and look at the numbers and cash Tesla has on hand as well as they have been generating cash and not losing as multiple posters have incorrectly stated here already.

How is what I quoted "slanted?"

You claimed Musk/Tesla have done everything on their timeline, but they haven't. The Model X is almost two years behind schedule. They still haven't reached full production capacity on the X.

that is going to be 2 times easier to produce than an X or S

Proof of this claim? The Model X is just a Model S with a new top. If anything, that would be super easy to produce, yet it's been plagued with multiple production delays? The Model 3 is on an all-new platform.

If Apple announced a new iPhone and then said "oh sorry, production problems. It will be out in a few months," people would be beyond pissed. Imagine if GM delays the Bolt. I highly doubt people would be overlooking that to say "Wow, look at how amazing that company is!"

Why is Tesla getting preferential treatment for all of their problems?
[doublepost=1459545914][/doublepost]

Sure there will be delays and production changes. These buyers don't care because they see what Tesla has released and done and the brand loyalty is there which is seeping into the average American.

How does this make any sense? The only people that own Teslas right now are the ones dropping $80k+ on a Model S/X.

The average American has probably never even sat in a Tesla, let alone, actually driven one.

(And yes, I have driven Teslas. 85 and P85D)

 

[Cnasty]

He has done everything that he has stated on his timeline. I didnt say it was on time but he has succeeded in his mission thus far so there is no reason to doubt it.

You are stating that you dont understand why the Model X is harder to produce than an S or a 3? The Falcon wing doors alone are the main reason and also the transition into an SUV like vehicle. With the 3 they have the structure of an S, 20% smaller, and intricacies like falcon wing doors or towing capacity. The gigafactory will produce more 3s and than Ss and Xs combined.

I am not certain I agree with you on Apple. Sure their fans and consumers would be disappointed, but would it stop them from buying the end product if they have shown a track record for success?? Absolutely not because Apple has shown even with production issues, lack of supply sometimes, and hardware malfunctions they continue to blossom as one of the market leaders in product sales. It is the earlier stages of that part with Tesla. They are developing a huge loyalty base that is ok with production delays because the end result is so fascinating and providing innovation where it is lacking in a stagnant automobile market from the likes of GM, Ford, and the others.

And dont compare the Bolt and GM to Tesla and the 3. Look at what you get for $35k in a Bolt and look what you get in a 3 let alone you dont see the demand and requests for the Bolt due to GM being a terrible reputation company and most consumers think it is pretty ugly and lacking compared to what you can get in a better product.

I am not a Tesla fanboy in the least but they continue to show the makings of a giant disrupting the curve in automobiles and I am very impressed at what they have done and where they are going.
[doublepost=1459546254][/doublepost]

[doublepost=1459545914][/doublepost]
How does this make any sense? The only people that own Teslas right now are the ones dropping $80k+ on a Model S/X.

The average American has probably never even sat in a Tesla, let alone, actually drive one.

How does it not make sense? 200k+ people have lined up, reserved, and are chomping at the bit to own a Tesla so to say that the average American is not interested in one is just not true. Expect that to really take off once the car is seen on the streets and to boot, Tesla has zero paid marketing unlike an F150 every 3 minutes on your commercial TV.

I find that impressive.

 

[2298754]

They are developing a huge loyalty base that is ok with production delays because the end result is so fascinating and providing innovation where it is lacking in a stagnant automobile market from the likes of GM, Ford, and the others.

What? Tesla didn't invent the EV... not even close. I'm not saying they aren't innovative (Supercharger network), but calling GM/Ford, etc stagnant is a stretch.

GM came out with the first mass-market PHEV (Volt). They are also going to beat Tesla to market on a mass-produced "cheap" EV with good range.

And dont compare the Bolt and GM to Tesla and the 3. Look at what you get for $35k in a Bolt and look what you get in a 3 let alone you dont see the demand and requests for the Bolt due to GM being a terrible reputation company and most consumers think it is pretty ugly and lacking compared to what you can get in a better product.

Excuse me? The Bolt and Model 3 are direct competitors. GM does not have a terrible reputation. If they did, no one would be buying their cars.

We don't know what we're getting with the Model 3. They haven't told us everything.
TesHow is it lacking? Do you speak for most consumers? You think it is. Not everyone.
[doublepost=1459547761][/doublepost]

I am not a Tesla fanboy in the least but they continue to show the makings of a giant disrupting the curve in automobiles and I am very impressed at what they have done and where they are going.

All of this is valid. The vast charging network and lack of traditional dealers are fantastic ideas

But the second idea will have to go away if Tesla plans to expand more. Tesla will have to franchise out in many states, such as Texas, CT, Michigan, NJ, etc.

All of those states are pretty big markets.

 

[Cnasty]

I didn't say they invented the EV market, they are easily the market leader though. The Bolt may be beating the 3 to production but you honestly feel the Bolt is a better vehicle overall and will outsell the 3???

I don't see that happening even with a final 3 far from complete.

Not speaking for most consumers but I am speaking for the numbers and the money doesn't lie.

GM is an excellent company? The same excellent company that needed bailout for mismanagement of funds and relied on the American government and people to save them? That GM doesn't have a terrible reputation? I'd disagree substantially on that one.

I appreciate a good conversation and see your points but my over arching message is that this is amazing to watch as a car enthusiast, innovative fan of technology and some that really loves the financial workings of a company like Tesla.

Thanks for being civil

 

[AustinIllini]

Up to 198k pre orders and climbing. It is an instant success already and will only grow once the average consumer gets to see it in person and see the quality of the Tesla product.
Musk released a timeline in 2010 I believe he has done every single on that timeline that he has outlined.
Looking at almost $8billion in based on average price mix and what options are chosen on the 3.
The demand is there and now they can raise capital and create more factories, super charging stations, and they will have institutional investors lining up to give them money.

Everyone keeps saying they are going bankrupt which is laughable. They are in the positive in cash flow now, earnings and estimates for next year are off the charts, and will be ridiculous beyond that as they release more and continue to create.

Sure they lost money initially but so did Amazon for many years with reinvestment.

This is an absolutely astonishing success story and to raise that much money in a day and a half is downright amazing.

The haters will continue to hate on Tesla and Musk but to be blind eyed and not recognize what is occurring as successful is just being ignorant.

That's my 2 cents as a fan of the company and as someone that does nothing but finances everyday and linked to the market.

Having a realistic viewpoint regarding an electric car from an unproven company does not make us haters. It's also name calling and against the rules.

IMHO, this is Tesla's equivalent of the first iPhone. It's not their best. But it's worse than that. We really don't know anything about it.

 

[Cnasty]

Having a realistic viewpoint regarding an electric car from an unproven company does not make us haters. It's also name calling and against the rules.

IMHO, this is Tesla's equivalent of the first iPhone. It's not their best. But it's worse than that. We really don't know anything about it.

In regards to your incorrect accusation, I was not calling anyone here a hater specifically as more in terms of the people that do not care for the company and are always negatively responding to their success.

As you can also see we were having a civil conversation and at multiple times we even tipped our cap to each other on our differing views. So please don't go rule threatening when you are incorrect in your accusations.

You can have any view you like and I can disagree with it completely as I do because we know plenty about the vehicle as opposed to your comment.

Thank you for contributing.

 

[D.T.]

I wonder if there's some secondary gauges higher up (like in a Prius) or Tesla will come out with a HUD.

A buddy of mine who's a Telsa owner (85D), and keeps tabs, and says there will be some significant revisions before production.

The Mission E is what an EV should look like

Wow, yeah, just some lines that make it look like something other than a partially melted Accord. Plus, use some traditional, classic design language, just because it's an EV, doesn't mean it needs to looks like a project from a 1st year design student.

 

[Suture]

I expect to see Volkswagen drop down on that list pretty far for 2016 (R&D). If I recall correctly, they slashed the investment into R&D heavily following the diesel scandal. I actually expected Google and J&J to be higher up on that list. Interesting.

 

[2298754]

I expect to see Volkswagen drop down on that list pretty far for 2016 (R&D). If I recall correctly, they slashed the investment into R&D heavily following the diesel scandal. I actually expected Google and J&J to be higher up on that list. Interesting.

I think it's pretty interesting how Samsung is significantly outspending Apple.

 

[2298754]

I didn't say they invented the EV market, they are easily the market leader though. The Bolt may be beating the 3 to production but you honestly feel the Bolt is a better vehicle overall and will outsell the 3???

Well yes, it's unproven technology still. That being said, I'm not sure how sales numbers quantify how "good" a car really is. If that were true, the Toyota Camry would be the best sedan in the world.

I do believe the Bolt will outsell the 3. Why? Significantly higher production capacity and GM has a far more extensive distribution network (i.e dealers/warehouses/etc). They have the ability to sell to Joe Rancher in the middle of Montana or in Podunk South Dakota.

I have family in Maine. The closest Tesla service center is in Boston. About 150ish miles away. If they wanted to get their Model 3 fixed/serviced, the cost is $3/mile for the Tesla Ranger to come up on top of the maintenance charges.

GM is an excellent company? The same excellent company that needed bailout for mismanagement of funds and relied on the American government and people to save them? That GM doesn't have a terrible reputation? I'd disagree substantially on that one.

Maybe excellent is a exaggeration (lol), but I wouldn't call them stagnant or terrible. GM has been cranking out some damn good cars recently, like the Volt, Corvette, Camaro, etc.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I reserved a Model 3 but now that my previous car was wrecked when another driver ran a red light, I am kind of in a tough spot figuring out what to do in between. My heart won't be in any car I lease or buy even if it was a top-of-the-line model knowing that I have a Model 3 on the way albeit in the distant future.
[doublepost=1459739715][/doublepost]

Like I posted in the main news thread, the interior is such a deviation from a more traditional, driver engaged design, I can't even get my head around it. I mean, my knee jerk reaction is I don't like it at all.

Someone brought up the car instrumentation being way off centered was a poor design choice, and I agree (some guy said he looks out the side of his car to keep it centered on the road to justify this design, hahahah ...)

The exterior is so uninspired, it's a simple wind tunnel design, I mean, I guess the idea is transportation and features over character, but I'd never buy at this stage because there's zero of the latter.

The interior according to Elon is very much unfinished and different from what the final version that "looks like a spaceship" will be.

To me and many others, the exterior design is a beautiful amalgamation of aesthetic touches inspired by high-end automakers.