The Car Thread ... !

[BarracksSi]

In retrospect, someone driving a Nissan GT-R or Dodge Demon, they likely have no problem spending the necessities to keep the car peforming optimally if they are tracking regularly or for competition purposes.

It can take a bundle of cash to run an expensive car hard. The craziest example I've heard yet is that Porsche had to start recommending that their GT3's optional centerlock wheel bearings need to be replaced after each event.

You can run cheaper cars, too, or even rent a car for a race series (I know of shops that manage some Spec Miata cars for rent). Nobody needs a $100,000 car to have fun on a track.

Auto x is autocross?

Yessir. Don't go as fast (rules governing course design dictate that cars can't go faster than highway speed), but the corner elements come at you super-quick, and the worst that happens (usually) is that you slide wide and knock some cones over.

 

[0388631]

Right. I figure autocross is difficult stuff to achieve good times and you need to be a better driver than track to avoid penalties? I stopped doing HPDE a long time ago because of their increasing cost. That and the danger with so many idiots on the track. The GT3's center locks are more for show than practicality. I'm not a big fan of center lock wheels unless they're center knockoffs on classics. A Miata with a supercharger kit sounds nice. I believe Mazda has some big plans for the next-gen Miata.

Personally, I don't find the car very comfortable. Though I like the hardtop a lot.

 

[jeyf]

just to clarify i do not do this stuff any more. I had a 07 R1 and or a AP1 honda s2000 when i was active.
-The sportBike was the better tool.
-Still have the honda as a garage queen and should sell it.

When the economy is doing well it brings out the racers.


we moved back into the city.
I would really like an electric micro sedan or hatchy. Fiat e500 but I dont see anything i like so far. would appreciate an In-Wheel motor drive. Recent electric cars are based on a gasoline design. Re fitted for an electric drive.

 

[BarracksSi]

Right. I figure autocross is difficult stuff to achieve good times and you need to be a better driver than track to avoid penalties? I stopped doing HPDE a long time ago because of their increasing cost. That and the danger with so many idiots on the track.

In-car videos of track mishaps made me reconsider, then decide against, doing track driving, at least with my daily driver. And because I don't have enough money or space for a second car (one that I could afford to throw away), I kept myself busy with autocross and an occasional day at the dragstrip.

The fast autocross guys are very good, both at car setup and actual driving. The first time I got involved was at a novice school day. The instructor rode with me to see how I drove, then I rode with him -- in MY car -- and he was about eight seconds faster than me.

When the economy is doing well it brings out the racers.

Certainly true here in the DC area. In the mid-2000's, when I got started, the big autocross club would fill its 250-spot event rosters within just a day or two of the registration getting posted, and they always had wait lists, too. In '08-09, there were usually 50-ish open spots on race day.

 

[0388631]

In-car videos of track mishaps made me reconsider, then decide against, doing track driving, at least with my daily driver.

I stopped before the advent of YouTube. It got more and more dangerous each event, spaced out, because more younger drivers found out about track racing. I suspect it's even worse now. I wouldn't mind if it was Sonoma Raceway. That's a sweet track and hard to mess up unless you're a total dunderhead.

The extent of my over car enthusiasm has been limited to cars and coffee events. Usually you run into someone you knew back in the day and end up spending the next two to three hours chatting about anything from cars to family to body pains you're beginning to experience.

Anyway, I'm not sure if my HPDE events made me a better driver at speed or in general, but it made me a more cautious and smart driver, predicting what may happen two to three cars around me. I think it's a skill every driver should learn. Sadly, the American system is utter **** at this.
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I would really like an electric micro sedan or hatchy. Fiat e500 but I dont see anything i like so far. would appreciate an In-Wheel motor drive. Recent electric cars are based on a gasoline design. Re fitted for an electric drive.

Ford's coming out with a variety of EVs by 2022. Should find something then. A lot of companies are investing in performance hybrids and EVs. Unlike politics, that stuff does trickle down.

 

[44267547]

just to clarify i do not do this stuff any more. I had a 07 R1 and or a AP1 honda s2000 when i was active.
-The sportBike was the better tool.
-Still have the honda as a garage queen and should sell it..

Don’t sell the Honda. I’m not familiar with the AP1 very much, but the AP2 for 2004 had one major change for the power band was reduced from 9000 RPM to 8000 RPM, I believe the torque in increased at 162, but the HP remained at 240, others have said the 1000 RPM decrease is noticeable. I have never driven one, but I hear the steering and handling is ridiculously good. One thing with AP2, is Honda retuned the suspension for less oversteer over the AP1. And I believe the AP2 also had gears one through five shorter due to the 8000 RPM power band limit, which I’m not entirely sure why Honda reduced the RPM. The few I do see roaming around my city are clean, but likely like yours, it’s garage kept. But the 2.2 VTEC motor being highly reliable and only weighing in at 2800 lbs, that little machine performs.

While back I heard rumors about a 2020 possible release for a new Honda S 2000? Curious to see if Honda ever re-enters this market again, even so, we all know it wouldn’t be what it once was with the AP1/AP2 VTEC platform.

 

[0388631]

I doubt it. They could, but they're probably focusing on other stuff. I'm more interested in this BMW-Toyota partnership Z5/Supra. That's going to be a sweet ride, and I doubt it'll be the mess that Toyota found themselves in teaming up with the gibbons at Subaru.

 

[quagmire]

I doubt it. They could, but they're probably focusing on other stuff. I'm more interested in this BMW-Toyota partnership Z5/Supra. That's going to be a sweet ride, and I doubt it'll be the mess that Toyota found themselves in teaming up with the gibbons at Subaru.

What was wrong with the Subaru partnership besides the failure of giving the BRZ/86 a more powerful variant?

 

[0388631]

What was wrong with the Subaru partnership besides the failure of giving the BRZ/86 a more powerful variant?

Because both companies required the other's approval to increase power or add significant features. It was a mistake from the get-go. The car is heavier than it should be for its power, narrow band, and it's pricey for what you get unless you're fine with barebones. It makes more sense on the used market when it's lost about 30% of its value. It's a fairly balanced car but when a Camry beats it, it says something. It's great for a very twisty road or auto cross. It wants to be like an S2000 or Miata, but it falls flat on its face.

Though the initial problems of having to check in relate more to Subaru not wanting to turbocharge the engine. They claim it would add weight and considerably affect balance, but the reality is that they didn't want to eat at sales for their more expensive and "premium" sports cars. Whereas Toyota wouldn't care and could add it, hence Subaru objecting. Again, reality has shown that people have gone FI without affecting weight or balance much. Just a lot of lip from both companies. Toyota also whinged at the costs of FI engines for a low sales car. Yet they didn't blink twice when it comes to rumors of them giving BMW a blank check to do what they wanted when it came to their joint venture. In other words, Toyota didn't want to spend money or do research on better engines with Subaru and meet emissions approval for a likely poor selling vehicle due to economic outlook and involved costs on owners' parts yet they're doing something with BMW years after they teamed up with Subaru and are planning on a likely more expensive sports car with BMW?

Untouched of either car on the used market for around $11K would be a very good deal.

I've posted my thoughts on the Nissan MBZ venture. The Infiniti Q30? Better deal than the MBZ, and much nicer, too. Build quality is vastly better than most Infiniti/Nissan models. There's also rumors the two are working on a 370 replacement. rolls eyes

 

[D.T.]

You can run cheaper cars, too, or even rent a car for a race series (I know of shops that manage some Spec Miata cars for rent). Nobody needs a $100,000 car to have fun on a track.

It's funny the number of people I know with very track capable cars that decided a $3K used Miata would be way more fun since it's more "disposable", and easier to trailer, etc.

In fact, I had a friend that was seriously interested in my S2K for track/AX but ultimately said "It's just too nice for that, especially for hacking up for safety equipment ..."

Speaking of ...

Don’t sell the Honda. I’m not familiar with the AP1 very much, but the AP2 for 2004 had one major change for the power band was reduced from 9000 RPM to 8000 RPM, I believe the torque in increased at 162, but the HP remained at 240, others have said the 1000 RPM decrease is noticeable. I have never driven one, but I hear the steering and handling is ridiculously good. One thing with AP2, is Honda retuned the suspension for less oversteer over the AP1. And I believe the AP2 also had gears one through five shorter due to the 8000 RPM power band limit, which I’m not entirely sure why Honda reduced the RPM. The few I do see roaming around my city are clean, but likely like yours, it’s garage kept. But the 2.2 VTEC motor being highly reliable and only weighing in at 2800 lbs, that little machine performs.

The AP2 is a better street car, more mid-range, better off-idle, improved gearing (both lower and higher), better syncros, reduction of jounce/bump steer (quite a few other refinements/improvements to just about everything). The piston speed of the 2.2 would've been excessive with the new geometry (longer stroke/under-square), so having the same HP at 500RPM lower throughout the power band made up for the additional RPM ceiling of the AP1, and it also helped with oil consumption. The insane 9K is _fun_, but where peak power is really only ~500RPM difference, the F22 is more "usable".

I researched, drove multiple models, and eventually bought this (no longer owned by me), bone stock at purchase, eventually with a nice aftermarket, Dragon-slaying, suspension, Japanese sourced wheels, OEM aero, etc.:

Beautiful red/black interior.

Side note: scored the mats from a Japanese source that had LHD variants, two piece, designed to cover the in-cabin H-bar (used special brackets).

 

[jeyf]

while the boomers were in a panic over their computers and buying home generators Honda built the s2000 to commemorate the passing of the century and decade. honda made different models s900, s800 in the past.


actually there were a group of us that did the autoCross. its easier as a team effort. Some would trailer the whole car. Others would have a small trailer for tools & tires and tow the trailer behind the track car to the event. These type of guys or gals were good to hang out with. Likely did not drink or drug. You always had a running or gym partner. Everyone in general not prone to excess behavior. Nice to pool tool access on the track. There was always advice and garage space for a project.

my ap1 s2000 did not fit easily into any local autoX class. to that ends i knew i was unlikely to win the trophy. I improving my driving skills tho and liked working on the different cars.

My issues with a ap1 s2K are:
-the Honda S2000 was track worthy stock. Few after market improvements were necessary. The setups that worked better than stock were likely very expensive.
-Not an ideal daily driver. A car with that much over steer reacted bad even on wet roads much less snow.
-it was expensive but you got what you paid for. I bought a used unit, took a week end, flew into NJ and drove it to Denver. Seems top speed ~144mph
-They only imported ~6,000/yr units to the US. No torque so didnt work out well for the gringo US driver. The ap2 improved on the torque thingy but added cup holders & a clock. The great recession put an end to the s2K.
-with a redline = 9000 not an easy car to shift and would have been nice to have a paddle snifter. You would want to limit your self to like 3 gears on the track. Keeping it above the 6K rpm V-tech point and below the 9K rev limit. the rev limit shut dwn was not smooth and once hit your lap time was shot. In grocery getter mode you kept it below V-tech.
-on the turns the rear would like to break free... a lot. It was sensitive to tire setup.
-tended to burn oil
-the transmission was great. You had to change the transmission oil frequently. You could tell certain brands of gear oil better than others.

whatever;
I likely will sell it
its the garage queen just now

 

[0388631]

May have spotted the cousin of Monsieur Daewoo. Purple metallic wrap of a beat down Mazda 5 with wicked 15-16" wheels and quad chrome tail pipes in the shape of a rectangle. Fluffy dominoes to boot.

 

[44267547]

New Cervinis Type IV Ram Air Hood in progress for the GT. Blank canvas with a Basic gel coat straight from the factory. I was hesitant it would get damaged during the shipping service , but surprisingly it’s exceeded my expectations and the shipping went smoothly with no damage.

What I didn’t know, is the gelcoat actually requires a lot more sanding and prepping prior to the first coat of primer before the heat cure process.



Primer stage. Second coat tomorrow, followed by cutting and baking with High curing, then first top coat and final coating. Being this is a black hood, it requires additional curing for the paint to adhere stronger.

 

[D.T.]

Not an ideal daily driver.

Yeah, maybe if you're < 25 yrs/old, or don't have a significant commute, etc., it really is more a weekend/extra vehicle. Trunk space is actually pretty decent (and doesn't vary based on the top position, a convertible requirement of mine).

They only imported ~6,000/yr units to the US.

This is one of the most compelling things, if you're into a little exclusivity, at ~66K cars imported into the US, you don't see them very often (well, Florida has sort of a high density).

 

[0388631]

This is one of the most compelling things, if you're into a little exclusivity, at ~66K cars imported into the US, you don't see them very often (well, Florida has sort of a high density).

Don't most get wrapped around trees and poles by the younger crowd? I've seen so few of these in the wild that were being driven or parked at the time. Saw a pair of them doing some silly stuff on a then deserted piece of road a few cities over a number of years ago. There's one I see from time to time on my way to work, so I figure the owner is from around here. It's a deep metallic blue. Probably a custom job. Fairly stock car but it has what I think is a permanent hard top conversion. It really stands out.

Lowered a little, custom wheels and that hard top. Cool car nonetheless.

 

[BarracksSi]

Just wanted to share this pic I took a few years back of the ugliest modern SUV I’ve seen.

Ladies and gents, the first-gen SsangYong Actyon:

 

[D.T.]

Don't most get wrapped around trees and poles by the younger crowd? I've seen so few of these in the wild that were being driven or parked at the time. Saw a pair of them doing some silly stuff on a then deserted piece of road a few cities over a number of years ago. There's one I see from time to time on my way to work, so I figure the owner is from around here. It's a deep metallic blue. Probably a custom job. Fairly stock car but it has what I think is a permanent hard top conversion. It really stands out.

Lowered a little, custom wheels and that hard top. Cool car nonetheless.

I don't know what the attrition percentage looks like, it can't be higher than Vipers

That was probably Laguna Pearl Blue, beautiful color, there were a few different blues offered over the years (not all imported). Pretty fun, many of the color names were race tracks (Laguna = Laguna Seca in CA), my car was Silverstone Silver (Silverstone Circuit in the UK).

I was on a GP for a slick hardtop, it extended to the rear and made like a hatchback design (looked a lot like a Z4 hardtop), bailed when I decided I'd never use it

 

[0388631]

When were you in Korea? That's such a strange looking car. It's got Toyota Camry (old gen) in it, some CRV like the wheels and rear lights except drooping, and some other weird stuff.

Random question for FoMoCo experts, but which Excursion models had that weird front driver+passenger door with the sharp dip at the side-mirror end?
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I don't know what the attrition percentage looks like, it can't be higher than Vipers

That was probably Laguna Pearl Blue, beautiful color, there were a few different blues offered over the years (not all imported). Pretty fun, many of the color names were race tracks (Laguna = Laguna Seca in CA), my car was Silverstone Silver (Silverstone Circuit in the UK).

I was on a GP for a slick hardtop, it extended to the rear and made like a hatchback design (looked a lot like a Z4 hardtop), bailed when I decided I'd never use it

Probably is the color. Does it change shades depending on weather? They're nice cars. I don't see a lot of Z4s either. Come to think of it, I don't see many Z3s either.

 

[jeyf]

honda s2000:
technology has will move fwd.
Likely you can buy a situation that handles better for less money today.

 

[BarracksSi]

When were you in Korea? That's such a strange looking car. It's got Toyota Camry (old gen) in it, some CRV like the wheels and rear lights except drooping, and some other weird stuff.

This was back in December 2011. Hopefully I'll get back there soon.

My single photo (I saw plenty of them on my trip, but didn't always have my camera ready) doesn't convey how awkward that grille is, or what a disaster the rear is. Unlike the infamous Aztec, it's subtly ugly, in that it doesn't look like anything's wrong from a distance (like if you saw one in traffic), but then you get a glimpse of the mouthful of baleen, and you suddenly think, "W da FUUU....?"

I've heard the legend that the design of the original Ford Taurus happened because the bosses forced them to stop prototyping. The idea was, if they kept prototyping, refining, and changing, it would end up looking just like an existing Ford, but they needed something revolutionary.

I think that for the Actyon, somebody prototyped the visual package, and their boss said, "Well, that's unfixable, but we gotta build something..."

 

[0388631]

This was back in December 2011. Hopefully I'll get back there soon.

My single photo (I saw plenty of them on my trip, but didn't always have my camera ready) doesn't convey how awkward that grille is, or what a disaster the rear is. Unlike the infamous Aztec, it's subtly ugly, in that it doesn't look like anything's wrong from a distance (like if you saw one in traffic), but then you get a glimpse of the mouthful of baleen, and you suddenly think, "W da FUUU....?"

I've heard the legend that the design of the original Ford Taurus happened because the bosses forced them to stop prototyping. The idea was, if they kept prototyping, refining, and changing, it would end up looking just like an existing Ford, but they needed something revolutionary.

I think that for the Actyon, somebody prototyped the visual package, and their boss said, "Well, that's unfixable, but we gotta build something..."

Sounds awesome. The issue with the Aztek was that it looked like a concept, but it wasn't a nice looking concept. The interior was god awful, too. The Renault Avantime was another mistake. Normal at the front but that rear end was hideous. And no one in the history of the world has (probably) ever said, "I really want to spend my hard earned money on a Multipla!" Abortion of a design!

I'll admit I thought and still think some of Chrysler's designs in the 90s were something cool but they definitely blew it.

 

[44267547]

The Photo of the SsangYong Actyon is the most obscure looking vehicle Ever. In the front, It literally looks like it has a Lincoln style Grill, Chrysler PT Cruiser wheels with International Semi headlamps in a Chrysler Pacifica body, but the rear end looks like an attached Older style Dodge Durango body/tail-lamps. And that top spoiler? Absolute monstrosity.

 

[A.Goldberg]

This was back in December 2011. Hopefully I'll get back there soon.

My single photo (I saw plenty of them on my trip, but didn't always have my camera ready) doesn't convey how awkward that grille is, or what a disaster the rear is. Unlike the infamous Aztec, it's subtly ugly, in that it doesn't look like anything's wrong from a distance (like if you saw one in traffic), but then you get a glimpse of the mouthful of baleen, and you suddenly think, "W da FUUU....?"

I've heard the legend that the design of the original Ford Taurus happened because the bosses forced them to stop prototyping. The idea was, if they kept prototyping, refining, and changing, it would end up looking just like an existing Ford, but they needed something revolutionary.

I think that for the Actyon, somebody prototyped the visual package, and their boss said, "Well, that's unfixable, but we gotta build something..."

I was going to say it looks like an extremely awkward parts bin car... mixing parts from a pickup and sedan to make an SUV. That thing is awful- nothing matches on it.

Edit: I just did some research. That is basically a pickup truck with an integrated cap to cover the bed. Not like anything I’ve seen before, but I guess that explains some of the obscure styling.

 

[0388631]

They should make it a cabriolet. Cabriolet SUVs and crossovers are seriously underrated.

 

[BarracksSi]

They should make it a cabriolet. Cabriolet SUVs and crossovers are seriously underrated.