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The Car Thread ... !
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I just went to the .de site and I still can’t build to 60k I can build to just over 50k which isn’t really rational.
You can go over 60k if you choose the R version.
A regular car show version can be around 40k USD in Europe.
I suppose it all depends on how big or small the car is and what you’re doing with it. No, we don’t have the Ahtobahn here, but insufficient power has other consequences such as merging, passing, etc. I drove a new Subaru Impreza wagon/hatch which I believe is a 170hp naturally aspirated 4cyl. It was a nice little car, but it was atrociously underpowered. Merging onto the highway was really weak and passing was borderline dangerous. Then again I am a bit spoiled with the N54 engine in my BMW.
America doesn’t have a very big wagon market. Gas is obviously much cheaper here and SUV’s have been far more popular. That said, newer crossover SUVs are pretty efficient and the difference in gas mileage is becoming more and more negligible.
If you look at the V60, keep in mind there is a new one coming out in the very near future. It’s kind of a scaled down V90, which itself is a beautiful car. The current V60 is based off the aged current S60. The new S/V60 is much nicer looking and has the new Volvo interior found in the XC60/90, S/V90. That said, you can probably get a deal on the outgoing models and you can get very good CPO deals.
My girlfriend has a 2016 S60 T6 AWD, it’s a great little car for the money- especially as this uses the older 3.0 I6 Turbo which has similar specs as my 535i. The new T6 engines are 2.0 I4’s with Turbos and a supercharger. It’s just too bad they are FWD-biased with a Haldex AWD system, unlike BMW who has a RWD biased system.
The Outback for all intents and purposes is a wagon. I think they just stick it with a “crossover” designation for marketing purposes. In the US wagons tend to carry an unfavorable stigma.
I also look at the power train first too but @cube has a point there isn’t anywhere in the states that you can drive 100+ for hours on end, heck there’s no place you can legally drive 100.
The number of cars available new in the US with an MSRP of under $21,000 is quite small. Even for cars that claim starting prices lower than that, dealers rarely actually STOCK the base configuration.
But the Outback is taller now, which affects handling, safety, and efficiency.There was a classic Land Rover wagon, but people would say it's an offroad vehicle.
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I think the price for the same model is usually lower in the US. But Europe has things like Dacia (branded Renault in some markets).
Exactly I have never driven a car and wished it had less power quite the opposite exactly
Thanks for the tip! I can see where the FWD-biased Haldex AWD system wouldn't have the handling a RWD biased system would
That and some states charge more for SUV registrations than cars
Legally you are right but I have been in several vehicles and wished they had more power. A few weeks ago I drove a 2017 Expedition my agency has and the 3.5L V-6 is underpowered in that vehicle despite having 365HP. This was obvious when merging onto the highway
Why isn't the Outback an off-road vehicle?
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It’s break over angle
So you drove a fat pig and wished it had more power let me get my shock a ya’ll face out
That's truw
I guess you could say that but it's not my fault Ford dictates it will be that way. The lack of power alone is why I won't have an Expedition as my POV. Now if Ford got smart and decided ot put a V-8 in it again I might consider itSo you drove a fat pig and wished it had more power let me get my shock a ya’ll face out
You mistake driving excitement with horsepower. My wife’s 116d will rip your head off at any speed less that 40 and will cruise at 110-120 all day long.
I’ll admit that my lifted Jeep is not the most practical vehicle on earth but as my mechanic said the other day when I went to him for a timing chain “you spend a lot of time in the woods climbing **** I’m not sure that a stock chain is right because of the heat”
Practical isn’t the be all end all but in the end Germans actually require more HP than Americans do even though we drive fat pigs.
The term “wagon” or “station wagon” was pretty much applied to any “SUV” prior to the inception of the term SUV in the 80’s. My dad has a restored 1973 Series III Land Rover and the manual calls it a Station Wagon, which was the term used at the time. Granted that thing is more closely related to a tractor than it is a car. That nomenclature went out of style in the 80’s and 90’s though.
The modern definition of a wagon/station wagon is taking a sedan and changing the roofline to have a tailgate/liftgate. The Subaru Outback is just a Subaru Legacy Sedan with a liftgate, some plastic cladding, different bumpers, and a lifted suspension. The interior, drivetrain, and underpinnings are all basically the same. Same story Volvo V90 versus the S90.
A crossover is based on a sedan platform, sharing the same general underpinnings and engines, but the suspension, exterior body, interior, etc are drastically reworked. Oftentimes crossovers offer drivetrains (AWD) not otherwise offered in the sedan version. The platform is also often scaled up to accommodate things like 3rd row seating.
Landrovers for the most part are not crossovers. Up until recently they were all body on frame. The LR2/Freelander 2 was a crossover based off the Volvo S80. . The new models have monocoque bodies, I’m not sure they have any relationship to any Jaguar sedans though. Comparing an Outback to a Land Rover would be rather silly.
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People set their own safety limits.
I think it works better there than people gazing at the side of the road looking for radars.
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Call it Crap Wagon, if you want. The real Subaru wagons are Legacy and Levorg now.
This is really just turning into a semantic argument. I believe Subaru changes the Outback from a wagon to a crossover purely for marketing reasons and for purposes of being able to have it compete in the much larger crossover market than the wagon market, which as I mentioned is very small. Subaru’s true crossover would be their new Ascent model.
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I’m not sure if they still offer the Legacy Wagon in Europe. They discontinued it in the US serval years ago, I assume because everyone went with the Outback. The last generation Legacy wagon they sold in the US was literally the same car as the Outback, with just a jacked up suspension and extra body cladding. It’s the same story as the older Volvo V70 versus XC70 or the current V60 versus V70 Cross Country... Literally the same car except a beefier suspension and some plastic body cladding.
I believe the Levorg is Euro name for the Impreza. I’d consider it a wagon, though technically I think it’s classified here as a hatchback... again probably for marketing reasons. Hatchbacks carry a sportier image than a wagon.
V70
XC70
That said, these “off-road oriented” wagons (Volvo Cross Countries, Audi Allroad, Subaru Outback, etc) have long served as competition to the crossover market. As I mentioned before, it seems to only be these models that are successful in the US.
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The outback is a station wagon just like the all road Audi’s, I’ll grant and one of the only cars I’d buy but it’s no off road vehicle.
Give me an outback with a 3.6 and a stick and my Jeep would be on Craigslist, heck give me a Golf all track diesel with a manual and I’d sell my Jeep the problem is neither exist in US spec so I’ll keep on keeping on.
I imagine my Wrangler will turn into a Defender 110 during this 5 year stint overseas since they put a real price on them not the American add 20k.
I suppose any car can be an off-road vehicle if you want it to be
The Outback actually has decent ground clearance, but the approach and departure angles aren’t conducive to off-roading. It’s a jacked up sedan (aka wagon) so I doubt it has the structual build quality to really beat on it hard. It also doesn’t have a low range transfer case. The old AWD systems were actually decent, but I believe they’re now using FWD biased systems with CVT transmissions that are absolutely not suited to any sort of rigorous use. The suspension though jacked up is probably far more oriented for onroad use than actually offering axel articulation.
Even if you consider the Outback a “crossover”, no crossovers are really suited for legitimate off-road use. You really need a body on frame construction preferably with a low range transfer case and a quality 4wd system. Alternatively you need a rigid unibody frame that’s actually designed to handle hard use- such as what Jeep uses or Land Rover in some of their models.
I never suggested they were off-road vehicles. They just provide the illusion for consumers.
The problem I’ve found with Subaru is you can’t get a stick and a higher end trim... their options nonsense drives me crazy. Most of their cars are horribly underpowered too. Otherwise if I was on a tighter budget I’d probably consider one.
I was just thinking the other day had the Alltrack existed 4-5 years ago when my GF was buying a new car, I would have strongly pushed her towards the Alltrack. I drove a Golf recently (1.8t base model) and thought it was a blast. But that is now and so back she went with a CPO S60 that has and continues to serve us pretty well.
I love Defenders. My GF’s father has a D90 soft top as his toy. They’re a reliability nightmare, awful as a daily driver, but have an undeniable charm. Big improvement over the Series Land Rovers too.
Yeah because his Tesla's drive units repeatedly dying is bliss compared to that Defender. I had a go at a MK7 R recently in stick and thought it was very fun. Confirmed my prior belief I'd enjoy it as a fun little weekend car. Especially if you drop an APR tune on it.
I had a go at a MK7 R recently in stick and thought it was very fun. Confirmed my prior belief I'd enjoy it as a fun little weekend car. Especially if you drop an APR tune on it.