The Car Thread ... !

[MacBH928]

Any one fan of Diesel engines? I looked down on Diesel most of my life as its only advantage was more efficiency for a lower price but you get that toxic smell. Made worse by my understanding that diesel prices are now closer to gas prices so the advantage is not much longer there. Around early-mid 2000, Diesel was all the rage especially in Europe as the future tech but seems like people have been driven away from it for some reason. I was amazed to learn there are no spark plugs and a natural combustion happens by mere compressing air and diesel together.

Saw a video recently stating Diesel produced less CO2 than regular gas, but it also releases other forms of chemicals so not sure which is more nature friendly.

Well, I see most of the bourgeoisie enjoy their admittedly plebeian automobiles, and I don't find that objectionable. But I must register a complaint, however minor, concerning the aesthetics of my otherwise excellent BMW v12 engine. True, it performs, but it's appearance to my trained eye is...awkward and contrived. Even ostentatious. Perhaps something more subtle would have been in order. Please see the photo below, which my private photographer, Aldrich von Dustable (son of the esteemed Peter von Dustable, portraitist to British royalty) documented recently.

View attachment 960118

See what I mean? A mundane vibe. Unsuitable for any BMW 7.

Ha, if you got this far, have your sense of humor fixed. This auto exists in my perverse imagination, as does all the rest. Damn you, I don't even have a car, and all of you do. Enjoy.

late 90s the V8 740i was a dream machine to many, and the 750i was the machine of the billionaires not the millionaires. I think its price was $130K in 90s dollars. So about $200K FFI.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Any one fan of Diesel engines? I looked down on Diesel most of my life as its only advantage was more efficiency for a lower price but you get that toxic smell. Made worse by my understanding that diesel prices are now closer to gas prices so the advantage is not much longer there. Around early-mid 2000, Diesel was all the rage especially in Europe as the future tech but seems like people have been driven away from it for some reason. I was amazed to learn there are no spark plugs and a natural combustion happens by mere compressing air and diesel together.

Saw a video recently stating Diesel produced less CO2 than regular gas, but it also releases other forms of chemicals so not sure which is more nature friendly.



late 90s the V8 740i was a dream machine to many, and the 750i was the machine of the billionaires not the millionaires. I think its price was $130K in 90s dollars. So about $200K FFI.

I’ve always viewed Diesels as more desirable than petrol cars and for the past 17 years I’ve bought nothing but. I still prefer them and despite the panic over electric, my next car in the new year will likely be a diesel unless there suddenly becomes a petrol car in the range with the same performance and fuel economy.

I drove a 1.5L petrol Ford Kuga back in March that I hired to go away with work and I could literally watch the fuel gage going down on the motorway. It didn’t fill me with much enthusiasm.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I haven't changed my registrations yet, but I'm really sorry to be moving from one of the few places in the country that doesn't require front plates to one that does.

I hate how they look on the front of the car(even though I know why they exist). My MKZ never had a front bracket installed(it was sold new in NC, which doesn't require one, and then moved to Kentucky where it was also good), and I'm going to have to track one down. The MG I think has two holes in the front bumper, but I'm going to have to double check. One way or another, I want something nicer than just screwing a plate into the bumper, and I'll have to do some thinking if I want to just roll the dice and chance it if there aren't holes in the bumper(not about to drill a virgin chrome bumper to fit one).

You could always go double sided tape. That’s what a lot of the new ones come with. Great when they aren’t even straight!

 

[bunnspecial]

Any one fan of Diesel engines? I looked down on Diesel most of my life as its only advantage was more efficiency for a lower price but you get that toxic smell. Made worse by my understanding that diesel prices are now closer to gas prices so the advantage is not much longer there. Around early-mid 2000, Diesel was all the rage especially in Europe as the future tech but seems like people have been driven away from it for some reason. I was amazed to learn there are no spark plugs and a natural combustion happens by mere compressing air and diesel together.

Saw a video recently stating Diesel produced less CO2 than regular gas, but it also releases other forms of chemicals so not sure which is more nature friendly.

Older diesels are great in passenger vehicles-whether you're looking at say something like a Mercedes or VW, or looking at big American trucks.

Even if diesel fuel is more expensive than gasoline, its energy content/volume is higher and compression-ignition engines are inherently more efficient that spark-ignition engines.

Plus, diesels can run forever. There are stories of 80s Mercedes vehicles with high hundreds of thousands of miles on them. There are gasoline engines that run that long, but they're more the exception. If you get less than say 200K out of a diesel, you're probably doing something wrong.

A lot of the equation changed a few years back at least in the US when emissions regulations really stepped up. On the whole, they decrease reliability, DEF runs up the cost of driving, and the fuel economy isn't what it was in the past.

Folks around here who have legitimate heavy towing and hauling needs are just as often opting for gasoline engines now. Ford's new 7.3L in particular is a winner in this category-it's a big, torquey, low-revving engine that should last forever, can haul nearly as efficiently as a comparable output diesel, and is less expensive to maintain.

 

[44267547]

I believe it was Alphazoid who said about the virtual cockpit being confusing/busy on the previous page,

This is where I think Tesla has it right with having an ‘all on digital iPad-like display’ highlighting everything for the driver functionality and vehicle status, eliminating the turn dial style knob, push buttons, etc. I was looking at the Ford Explorer ST Months ago (This Model had the tech package), this is where I think they’re also leading into having the entire interface controlled by touch displays. I guess what I’m getting at, is it essentially getting rid of all the unnecessary distractions around you/virtual cockpits, but emphasizing your focus on one display large enough where it’s easy to read, has a quick learning curve (which sometimes is longer dependent on the person) but the caveat is that it’s ‘off-centered‘ in the middle of the dash, which I don’t like, Which it does require you to take your eyes off the road and you won’t have the tactile feedback per se from a button, Which creates even more More of a distraction not knowing what your toggling when touching a display.

That said, There is some amazing craftsmanship into these vehicles into the gauge clusters, center consoles, but it’s just too much, when it should be simplified and more structured, that’s what I really like about Tesla and Ford in the same realm of iPad displays that eliminate everything else, But doesn’t come without its drawbacks.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I can’t stand those tablet like screens in the car. Firstly they look ghastly and out of place; don’t like them in the Tesla nor Volvo nor Mercedes horizontal version. But the bigger issue I have with them is that they are terrible to operate when driving other then by voice control. Try pointing your finger to adjust the temperature for your seat whilst driving without looking at the screen and in one go on anything but an entirely perfectly smooth road.

Give me a knob anyday ? in a car. You can operate that without looking, provides tactile push or rotary feedback, and doesn’t require your fingers to be held steady on a bumpy road.

Even analog dashboards had the implementation to only show relevant information. Saab was well known for introducing that, but granted it worked best at night time.

My Range Rover virtual cockpit is also lovely and clean. I love the focal zone that follows the dials. It is a little UX thing that makes it so easy for eyes to focus in exactly the right place.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I like some diesels and definitely not all of them. I definitely don’t like those non turbo charged old versions. They weren’t great. Nor the big turbo lag of some newer versions. Nor the clatter or bag of nails noise some produce. But there are some gems with multi stage turbos etc.

BMW 3.0 twin turbo and Mercedes 3.0 twin turbo models are very refined, great pull, and very smooth.

But for the smaller say four cylinders less than 2.0 engines they don’t do anything for me. And I find a similar sized petrol turbo much more pleasant to drive, way more refined and very close to the same fuel economy.

But engines need to be right sized; especially in the U.K. there seems to be a trend now which absurdly puts some very small engines in relatively large cars. Guess what’s using more field; a small engine that needs to be worked hard or a larger engine that barely ticks over?

 

[44267547]

My Range Rover virtual cockpit is also lovely and clean. I love the focal zone that follows the dials. It is a little UX thing that makes it so easy for eyes to focus in exactly the right place.

Are you ever gonna post a picture of the Range Rover? (Not that you’re obligated to and if you did post it, I may have overlooked it) We saw your nifty, very nicely polished transverse exhaust, but I definitely would like to see the Rover if you’re ever feeling inclined.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Are you ever gonna post a picture of the Range Rover? (Not that you’re obligated to and if you did post it, I may have overlooked it) We saw your nifty, very nicely polished transverse exhaust, but I definitely would like to see the Rover if you’re ever feeling inclined.

Hehehehe I funnily have no photos of that. I’ll get some in one day. Although you did get part of a number plate the other day.

All I can say it’s black, very black. Black Santorini paint, black windows, all chrome black, black semi aniline leather interior, black leather roof lining and black 22” wheels, and black tinted windows. Even the six pot brembo brakes are black.

Some may say drug dealer spec ?

 

[44267547]

Hehehehe I funnily have no photos of that. I’ll get some in one day. Although you did get part of a number plate the other day.

All I can say it’s black, very black. Black Santorini paint, black windows, all chrome black, black semi aniline leather interior, black leather roof lining and black 22” wheels, and black tinted windows. Even the six pot brembo brakes are black.

Some may say drug dealer spec 🤣

Well, I’m no longer asking politely, now you better post a picture of it!😀 Sounds awesome. Seriously though, that sounds like my type of style.

 

[MacBH928]

I’ve always viewed Diesels as more desirable than petrol cars and for the past 17 years I’ve bought nothing but. I still prefer them and despite the panic over electric, my next car in the new year will likely be a diesel unless there suddenly becomes a petrol car in the range with the same performance and fuel economy.

I drove a 1.5L petrol Ford Kuga back in March that I hired to go away with work and I could literally watch the fuel gage going down on the motorway. It didn’t fill me with much enthusiasm.

How would you say they drive? Are they have? do they give a good acceleration on start? I heard they are slow to get going from a complete stop.

I read that Diesel engines have high torques, so its supposed to be more powerful but I am confused that they are slower?!

I never understood what is the difference between torque and HP. The last I got to is that torque is the power produced by the enginge, and to my brain that should correlate to higher speeds but it seems like you can have lots of power(torque) but low speed and less power(torque) but high speeds. Whats the desire of high power+low speeds? How come the higher torque engines slower at start compared to gas?

Anyone willing to explain torque and HP I am willing to listen.

I can’t stand those tablet like screens in the car. Firstly they look ghastly and out of place; don’t like them in the Tesla nor Volvo nor Mercedes horizontal version. But the bigger issue I have with them is that they are terrible to operate when driving other then by voice control. Try pointing your finger to adjust the temperature for your seat whilst driving without looking at the screen and in one go on anything but an entirely perfectly smooth road.

Give me a knob anyday ? in a car. You can operate that without looking, provides tactile push or rotary feedback, and doesn’t require your fingers to be held steady on a bumpy road.

Even analog dashboards had the implementation to only show relevant information. Saab was well known for introducing that, but granted it worked best at night time.

My Range Rover virtual cockpit is also lovely and clean. I love the focal zone that follows the dials. It is a little UX thing that makes it so easy for eyes to focus in exactly the right place.

I never understood this craze, its ugly and looks like a toy. I will take mechanical gauges over videogame screens any time...well unless its electric, the computer screen will give you a feeling you are piloting a StarTrek spaceship

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Well, I’m no longer asking politely, now you better post a picture of it!? Sounds awesome. Seriously though, that sounds like my type of style.

A teaser

 

[Apple fanboy]

I can’t stand those tablet like screens in the car. Firstly they look ghastly and out of place; don’t like them in the Tesla nor Volvo nor Mercedes horizontal version. But the bigger issue I have with them is that they are terrible to operate when driving other then by voice control. Try pointing your finger to adjust the temperature for your seat whilst driving without looking at the screen and in one go on anything but an entirely perfectly smooth road.

Give me a knob anyday ? in a car. You can operate that without looking, provides tactile push or rotary feedback, and doesn’t require your fingers to be held steady on a bumpy road.

Even analog dashboards had the implementation to only show relevant information. Saab was well known for introducing that, but granted it worked best at night time.

My Range Rover virtual cockpit is also lovely and clean. I love the focal zone that follows the dials. It is a little UX thing that makes it so easy for eyes to focus in exactly the right place.

Couldn’t agree more. Add the glare issue in the sun and they always need a bloody good clean.

 

[D.T.]

Anyone willing to explain torque and HP I am willing to listen.

How long do you have?

OK, short version:

Torque is rotational force, for cars in the US, shown as lb/ft, i.e., amount of turning force applied to move one pound a distance of one foot around an axis at a radius of one foot.

Horsepower is work over time, so when we calculate it, we factor in RPM, i.e., revolutions per minute == work / time, and in specifically it's this equation:

H = T x RPM / 5252

So on a dyno graph, where you see a plot of both HP and Torque, they'll always cross at 5252 RPM ...

Anyway, so what you're seeing is HP is produced as the engine spins, so those low HP, high TQ vehicles typically have lots of TQ low in the RPM range (usually due to some combination of displacement/design/FI), but don't have a ton of rev capability, so their HP is lower-ish (relative to the TQ).

So you have engines, like big diesels that make 550lb/ft of torque but only 240HP, and F1 engines that make 200lb/ft of torque but ~800HP (because the latter rev to 15,000+ RPMs).

And of course, don't forget gearing, that's a HUGE contributor to the final, effective performance, in fact, as a smart engineer once said, I'd rather have torque higher than lower in the RPM range to take advantage of gearing. Keeping the RPMs high between shifts, near the peak means faster acceleration over time.

This is a dyno chart, from, umm, some random, tuned MY18+ GT A10

The lighter red line is torque, note how it's 350-400 across the RPM range (the scale at the bottom), and as the RPMs increase, the darker red (HP / Power) value increases to the point where the engine start losing efficiency, torque starts to drop off.

This one was actually cut a little short, it made power right up to about 7200 putting the A10 at a perfect shift point. Engines can only spin so fast, and can only ingest so much air, there's all sorts of design considerations to the implementation - and of course, that also has to be factored in with cost, durability, etc., when talking about street vehicles.

FYI, these are measured rear wheel numbers, manufacturers rate the engines at the flywheel, which doesn't take into account the power losses through the transmissions/drivetrain, gears, etc. So using the typical calculation for those losses on a super efficient tranny like the Ford A10, that's ~520HP at the motor

A teaser

View attachment 961394

16.1 MPG? Sir I am appalled, that should be well under 15

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Hehehe that is U.K. mpg so in US that is 13.4 mpg ?

 

[D.T.]

Hehehe that is U.K. mpg so in US that is 13.4 mpg ?

Whew, OK, I was thinking I needed to liberate that fine vehicles and drive it around at WOT for an hour or two ...

 

[44267547]

A teaser

View attachment 961394

I see your taking notes from my vehicle teaser photos these past few months. Well played sir, well played.

Now for the reveal.....

 

[MacBH928]

How long do you have?

OK, short version:

Torque is rotational force, for cars in the US, shown as lb/ft, i.e., amount of turning force applied to move one pound a distance of one foot around an axis at a radius of one foot.

Horsepower is work over time, so when we calculate it, we factor in RPM, i.e., revolutions per minute == work / time, and in specifically it's this equation:

H = T x RPM / 5252

So on a dyno graph, where you see a plot of both HP and Torque, they'll always cross at 5252 RPM ...

Anyway, so what you're seeing is HP is produced as the engine spins, so those low HP, high TQ vehicles typically have lots of TQ low in the RPM range (usually due to some combination of displacement/design/FI), but don't have a ton of rev capability, so their HP is lower-ish (relative to the TQ).

So you have engines, like big diesels that make 550lb/ft of torque but only 240HP, and F1 engines that make 200lb/ft of torque but ~800HP (because the latter rev to 15,000+ RPMs).

And of course, don't forget gearing, that's a HUGE contributor to the final, effective performance, in fact, as a smart engineer once said, I'd rather have torque higher than lower in the RPM range to take advantage of gearing. Keeping the RPMs high between shifts, near the peak means faster acceleration over time.

This is a dyno chart, from, umm, some random, tuned MY18+ GT A10

View attachment 961437

The lighter red line is torque, note how it's 350-400 across the RPM range (the scale at the bottom), and as the RPMs increase, the darker red (HP / Power) value increases to the point where the engine start losing efficiency, torque starts to drop off.

This one was actually cut a little short, it made power right up to about 7200 putting the A10 at a perfect shift point. Engines can only spin so fast, and can only ingest so much air, there's all sorts of design considerations to the implementation - and of course, that also has to be factored in with cost, durability, etc., when talking about street vehicles.

FYI, these are measured rear wheel numbers, manufacturers rate the engines at the flywheel, which doesn't take into account the power losses through the transmissions/drivetrain, gears, etc. So using the typical calculation for those losses on a super efficient tranny like the Ford A10, that's ~520HP at the motor






16.1 MPG? Sir I am appalled, that should be well under 15

thanks for the explanation. I understood how we have more torque(power) that is lost in effeciency to create lower HP(movement), but how does in the end we get more HP(more movement) with less power?

Also, is there a reason I want higher Torque but lower HP?

 

[44267547]

Ford officially discontinues the Shelby GT350 (And ‘R’ variant.)

Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 and GT350R Canceled for 2021

Ford officially kills its Mustang Shelby GT350 and GT350R for 2021, leaving the mightier GT500 and upcoming Mach 1 behind.

www.motortrend.com

I didn’t actually see that coming, but now it makes complete sense when they announced the ‘Mach 1’ arriving, so it pushes incentive for that particular model, with the GT being the ‘underdog‘ and then of course the GT500 being at the top.

More than anything, I expect the GT350 to really hold well with value, and even in some cases, appreciate depending on the mileage and if you also have the more limited ‘R’ version. The voodoo flat-plane crank just created such a unique sound, really one of kind in many ways.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Ford officially discontinues the Shelby GT350 (And ‘R’ variant.)

Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 and GT350R Canceled for 2021

Ford officially kills its Mustang Shelby GT350 and GT350R for 2021, leaving the mightier GT500 and upcoming Mach 1 behind.

www.motortrend.com

I didn’t actually see that coming, but now it makes complete sense when they announced the ‘Mach 1’ arriving, so it pushes incentive for that particular model, with the GT being the ‘underdog‘ and then of course the GT500 being at the top.

More than anything, I expect the GT350 to really hold well with value, and even in some cases, appreciate depending on the mileage and if you also have the more limited ‘R’ version. The voodoo flat-plane crank just created such a unique sound, really one of kind in many ways.

How many years before the sound of any combustion engine will sound unique? Given the country lanes I go walking round here, I’m sure the death toll will rise significantly when we are all electric! Mind you by then I’ll be using a Walker!

 

[bunnspecial]

How many years before the sound of any combustion engine will sound unique? Given the country lanes I go walking round here, I’m sure the death toll will rise significantly when we are all electric! Mind you by then I’ll be using a Walker!

Hopefully at least around you, there will always be LBCs rumbling around the countryside

I don't see muscle going away here, and of course if you come around my house the burble of a British tractor engine will always be audible.

 

[D.T.]

I didn’t actually see that coming, but now it makes complete sense when they announced the ‘Mach 1’ arriving, so it pushes incentive for that particular model, with the GT being the ‘underdog‘ and then of course the GT500 being at the top.

Most people in the Mustang community knew this was coming (it's been discussed in various channels for almost a year): dwindling sales, single application engine, build complexities, the GT platform approaching performance parity, the Mach I is simply a product meant to fill the gap a bit. "Underdog" is an odd choice of words, the GT is just a product with a specific design and business target, the Mach I is slightly higher performance (and offers some upgrades like a Tremec manual in the Handling Package variant), but for a very specific buyer segment (i..e, no convertible version, limited production, you have to like some of the model specific design elements).

There might be a more capable GT350 replacement with an S550 based Boss model, basically the Mach I, higher RPM, ~500HP, Tremec, GT350 brakes, etc., assuming they can R&D it, get a good business case, and get it into the consumer channel with enough time to make it worthwhile, before the S650 hits the market.

 

[44267547]

How many years before the sound of any combustion engine will sound unique? Given the country lanes I go walking round here, I’m sure the death toll will rise significantly when we are all electric! Mind you by then I’ll be using a Walker!

As long as I have a V8 to play with, I’m happy with that!

Speaking of which, the dude in the Scat Pack giving the ‘thumbs up’ behind the wheel in my avatar photo is me!

 

[faust]

I am mortified to discover there is elitism among Jeep owners. Apparently Jeep Renegade owners(such as myself) are not seen as owning real Jeeps. Which is funny because it's Jeeps like mine that allow Fiat-Chrysler to fund the Wrangler & Gladiator.

 

[Applefan2015]

Let’s hope I don’t upset any Karen’s on this forum with my parking.....