The nTB version has better discounts than the TB. There are a lot of good deals right now.
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The No Touch Bar 13 Macbook Version
- Thread starter Abaganov
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The nTB version has better discounts than the TB. There are a lot of good deals right now.
Did you even read that "article"? It reads like a sad "user contributed" Buzzfeed article, complete with the flimsiest of reasons why not to buy the ntb version. The reasons cited are:
1. Doesn't have the Touch Bar
Good. Just because Apple releases something doesn't make it great. The Touchbar, for many of us, is a gimmick or simply unappealing and a battery hog to boot. Many of us prefer physical function keys.
2. Doesn't have Touch ID
Another unnecessary feature. It's not a bad one, but it's not even close to a deal breaker.
3. Less performance
Newsflash: the base model will always have less performance than the more expensive models. That's what a base model is. Most people don't need 16gb ram and multi-terabyte hard drives.
4. Only two ports
For someone who rarely ever needs more than a port at a time, two is ample. Many others are in the same boat.
5. Costs way more than a MacBook Air
lol @ "way more". Yes, $500 more for retina screen, faster processing speed, more storage, and just a superior machine on every level (keyboard and trackpad included), that's too much for the author.
Weird to watch certain Apple fans work overtime to convince themselves that certain models/products are 'bad' in order to feel comfortable with the model they may have reluctantly chose to buy. This may come as a shock but people are different and have different needs. There's actually a subset of people who gravitate toward the nTB for the very reasons that others pass on it.
Personally I love my base model, and my gf loves her 15" tb. Both are fantastic machines, it simply depends on what your needs are and how much you want to spend. I'd question the motives of anyone who declares any particular model is inherently so "bad" that no customer should buy it.
I agree the article is pretty lame. Not a good detail report of why to get the TB over the nTB. His points are very subjective and personal finding.
I have had both, first the nTB which I returned after 4 days and then purchased the TB. I liked the nTB and seemed like a good bang for the buck with people selling them $100 off list and no taxes.
My self I am a gadget guy and I like the looks and and the function of the new Touch Bar so that is why I went for it. I got $100 of the base TB and no taxes.
Both are good machines with similar performance. Either you like the TB or you don't.
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Agreed. For £300, you are getting a faster CPU, faster memory, 2 additional ports and the most important... Touch ID. It's fantastic and developmers will soon make even better use of the touch bar and Touch ID. It's like when the iPhone first got Touch ID. It did take awhile but once apps were using it, it's priceless.
Chill, when I said I was having "fun" I was being sarcastic. If you search my posts you will see that I'm very satisfied with my no touch bar Macbook Pro. I posted it here because it was dumb article worth a rebuttal. (which you did) This just shows that feedback in forums from real users are worth much much more then random spec reading online reviews that pollute the internet.
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D'oh. Sorry about that then, I thought you were posting the article in all seriousness and once I read it I couldn't help but respond. The article really is that bad.
Hi Folks,
I've been using my base model non-TB 13 rMBP for the last 10 days. Been loving it. The battery life is superb (14-10 hours depending on light vs heavy load). Today I had a freakish one-time incident where I suddenly had the screen blur up(very similar to the image attached but more black boxes). Restarted the machine and things were back to normal. I couldn't recreate it though. I haven't had any issues with this machine other than this one time incident. Should I be concerned? In all fairness I didn't shut down the machine for almost 7 days now. Could that be it? There aren't any apple stores in my native country. Should I return the machine or can this be considered a one time freak show. Please help me guys.
Update: it happened again. Only when I try to unlock the laptop.i.e. when open the lid and type the password.
I've been using my base model non-TB 13 rMBP for the last 10 days. Been loving it. The battery life is superb (14-10 hours depending on light vs heavy load). Today I had a freakish one-time incident where I suddenly had the screen blur up(very similar to the image attached but more black boxes). Restarted the machine and things were back to normal. I couldn't recreate it though. I haven't had any issues with this machine other than this one time incident. Should I be concerned? In all fairness I didn't shut down the machine for almost 7 days now. Could that be it? There aren't any apple stores in my native country. Should I return the machine or can this be considered a one time freak show. Please help me guys.
Update: it happened again. Only when I try to unlock the laptop.i.e. when open the lid and type the password.
Attachments
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I updated to the latest 10.12.2. Also now apps seem to close by themselves after the screen locks. This machine is fast becoming a nightmare. IS it worth waiting for apple to fix it?
Edit: This was due to the auto-log out feature being enabled. I have removed it now and its sorted.
Im unable to recreate the graphics issue still. So fingers crossed that it was a one-time freakish incident.
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That's a defective unit. I've had mine for about about a month and havent encountered anything like that.
Please see my updates.
"Edit: This was due to the auto-log out feature being enabled. I have removed it now and its sorted.
Im unable to recreate the graphics issue still. So fingers crossed that it was a one-time freakish incident."
[doublepost=1482565496][/doublepost]
Im getting 10 hours on average with the brightness at 60%. Mixed usage.
what's running in activity monitor? some
background apps can be memory and energy hogs. is your keyboard backlight turned way up?
video playing definitely increases battery drain - but it was true for my old mba11 too
[QUOTE, member: 378912"]Agreed. For £300, you are getting a faster CPU, faster memory, 2 additional ports and the most important... Touch ID. It's fantastic and developmers will soon make even better use of the touch bar and Touch ID. It's like when the iPhone first got Touch ID. It did take awhile but once apps were using it, it's priceless.[/QUOTE]
I wanted to have the possibility of keeping the Mac for some years and the touchbar concerned me as it might force a software upgrade a few years out to make it more usable similar to IOS. I'm unsure how many OS upgrades I would do otherwise with memory that can't be replaced. With my 2008 late aluminum I went from 2 to 8 and it can run Sierra fine. I don't expect this one to last as long but I hope to get 4-5 years and that might mean not upgrading the OS.
The hard drive can be replaced on the ntb which makes me think this might be the workhorse for enterprise once aftermarket hard drives appear and it might be around for a while whereas the Tb is experimental.
I am using MacID app on iPhone for opening Mac with touchid. It takes a few taps but it also saved me $500 as I got the $200 discount so I will take the extra taps.
I threw Duet app on iPad to test the touchbar. It was fun but nothing jumped out as worthy to change my mind.
The ntb seems solid as hell, speedy and the key things that worry me are memory and hard drive and that now seems endemic for Mac.
Regarding more ports, I have used 2 on the late 2008 and that seemed ok for me. I got the Apple multiport for free ( don't ask) which gives me a third port if necessary. I assume down the road some third party like monoprice will make one that is cheaper; likewise a usb c to lightning that is of good length. The dongle is annoying--an extra step.
I wanted to have the possibility of keeping the Mac for some years and the touchbar concerned me as it might force a software upgrade a few years out to make it more usable similar to IOS. I'm unsure how many OS upgrades I would do otherwise with memory that can't be replaced. With my 2008 late aluminum I went from 2 to 8 and it can run Sierra fine. I don't expect this one to last as long but I hope to get 4-5 years and that might mean not upgrading the OS.
The hard drive can be replaced on the ntb which makes me think this might be the workhorse for enterprise once aftermarket hard drives appear and it might be around for a while whereas the Tb is experimental.
I am using MacID app on iPhone for opening Mac with touchid. It takes a few taps but it also saved me $500 as I got the $200 discount so I will take the extra taps.
I threw Duet app on iPad to test the touchbar. It was fun but nothing jumped out as worthy to change my mind.
The ntb seems solid as hell, speedy and the key things that worry me are memory and hard drive and that now seems endemic for Mac.
Regarding more ports, I have used 2 on the late 2008 and that seemed ok for me. I got the Apple multiport for free ( don't ask) which gives me a third port if necessary. I assume down the road some third party like monoprice will make one that is cheaper; likewise a usb c to lightning that is of good length. The dongle is annoying--an extra step.
Agreed. Performance diff with TB is negligible and the TB has yet to be proven where as the row of Fn keys have been around that long for a very good reason. Maybe they should go, but the TB is not the right replacement (I own a tbMBP).
Add me to the list of those that want to exchange my TB for a nTB.
I have a question for those that have a base 2.0Ghz nTB. Do you have any stuttering when playing 4K Youtube videos, specifically with Chrome? I realize stuttering can be caused by bandwidth constraints so hopefully someone can confirm that 4k plays stutter-free. And I know Safari is more efficient than Chrome, especially with Youtube, but I have my reasons for wanting to use Chrome so don't want this to turn into a Safari vs Chrome discussion.
Here is an example video:
Thanks in advance.
I have a question for those that have a base 2.0Ghz nTB. Do you have any stuttering when playing 4K Youtube videos, specifically with Chrome? I realize stuttering can be caused by bandwidth constraints so hopefully someone can confirm that 4k plays stutter-free. And I know Safari is more efficient than Chrome, especially with Youtube, but I have my reasons for wanting to use Chrome so don't want this to turn into a Safari vs Chrome discussion.
Here is an example video:
Thanks in advance.
man this is why I haven't touched my machine since 12.0 and made a clone of it too
none whatsoever, on chrome and base nTB (safari is my daily driver, but whatever, I can totally look past that and run that 'test' for ya like I just did haha!)
edit- I lied, may stutter on 1680 ,dont think I saw it on 1440 scaling mode tho in 4k
POPS on the p3 screen really well
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This is not what you are looking for because I am on a 13" TB 2.9 base, but I wanted to compare stats between Chrome and Sifari. I had no problem with either service and I would not think you would on the 2.0 either. Be interesting to see the same snap shot with 2.0.
Chrome Safari
+1
I had the TB and nTB for a week, returned the TB.
TB Specs: 3.3 i7 / 16 / 512
nTB Specs: 2.4 i7 / 16 / 512
Returned the TB after a week for several reasons related to my workflow - the touch bar is an excellent piece of tech, and a really cool one too. But it just wasn't for me
Performance difference was not noticeable under my regular workloads (development workflow involving several IDEs, Chrome, Spotify, Mail, Calendar, iTerm). If you had told me that both machines had identical CPUs I would have believed it. I suppose you have to be slamming this machine at its limit for quite a while before the lower TDP and throttling of the nTB make an impact on performance.
I don't play games or work with design software so I can't speak to the difference between 540/550 graphics, but both ran my 2x Asus 1080p displays like a champ. No Mission Control or space-switching lag here (this was something I noticed occasionally on last year's 13"). NotebookCheck suggests that the performance of both should be very similar.
As far as the ports are concerned, I was able to hook up power, 2 displays, and the Apple USB Keyboard with Numeric Keys with just 2 dongles. 1x USB-C to HDMI and 1x Apple Multiport Adapter (HDMI, USB, Power). The advantage of the TB is that you can choose to charge from either side, but in all honestly I haven't had a lot of situations so far where I needed an extra foot to wrap around the other side of the computer.
Now, the touch bar is a really cool addition to the Mac, but I found it to be a little disappointing for a few reasons:
- It replicates a ton of the UI controls you can already see on the display. Many of these controls already have keyboard shortcuts that people know and use ie: switching between tabs in a browser or clearing the search bar to enter text. So for the most part, the touch bar is not bringing in a ton of functionality you didn't already have with gestures / kb shortcuts but rather just provides another way to do the same thing. This may change as developers start to take advantage of the TB.
- The viewing angle is great, the display is crisp and clear. But you have to actually look away from the screen in order to interact with the touch bar. Maybe it's just me, but I tried using the laptop in a few different orientations and I could not find a way to look at the touch bar in my periphery without breaking my view of what's on the screen. This is an inefficiency that I do not have when I'm using keyboard shortcuts - I'm curious to hear if others have noticed this as well!
The battery life in the nTB absolutely trumps the TB. I was able to pull off 8-10 hours very consistently on the nTB and got 4-6 on the TB. This was actually the bigger reason why I returned the TB, as I have gotten accustomed to battery life on Apple portables to be non-negotiable. I really hope they find a way to fix this over time, but given that the TB's battery is ~5Watt-hours smaller and has a higher TDP CPU, it's going to take a lot of software power-saving optimizations to make this a reality.
Speakers - they sound a little bit better on the nTB. For some reason, on the TB it sounds like it's all coming out of the bottom of the grille, and the sides of the machine. On the nTB it sounds like it's uniformly coming up out of the grille. iFixit found that the speakers are actually positioned differently due to space constraints for the two machines. The quality of the sound on both is still a huge leap over last year's model, though.
But overall, if you like using the TB and you are a creative that would benefit from the various sliders and shortcuts being on the TB while your app is in fullscreen, and if you need 4 USB-C ports I would absolutely say get the TB model. If you are looking for a machine that is more of a successor to last year's 13" and retains the same core balance of Power / Portability / Battery Life, I would totally recommend the nTB.
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great detailed, fair and honest review and comparison between the two
+1
I had the TB and nTB for a week, returned the TB.
TB Specs: 3.3 i7 / 16 / 512
nTB Specs: 2.4 i7 / 16 / 512
Returned the TB after a week for several reasons related to my workflow - the touch bar is an excellent piece of tech, and a really cool one too. But it just wasn't for me
Performance difference was not noticeable under my regular workloads (development workflow involving several IDEs, Chrome, Spotify, Mail, Calendar, iTerm). If you had told me that both machines had identical CPUs I would have believed it. I suppose you have to be slamming this machine at its limit for quite a while before the lower TDP and throttling of the nTB make an impact on performance.
I don't play games or work with design software so I can't speak to the difference between 540/550 graphics, but both ran my 2x Asus 1080p displays like a champ. No Mission Control or space-switching lag here (this was something I noticed occasionally on last year's 13"). NotebookCheck suggests that the performance of both should be very similar.
As far as the ports are concerned, I was able to hook up power, 2 displays, and the Apple USB Keyboard with Numeric Keys with just 2 dongles. 1x USB-C to HDMI and 1x Apple Multiport Adapter (HDMI, USB, Power). The advantage of the TB is that you can choose to charge from either side, but in all honestly I haven't had a lot of situations so far where I needed an extra foot to wrap around the other side of the computer.
Now, the touch bar is a really cool addition to the Mac, but I found it to be a little disappointing for a few reasons:
- It replicates a ton of the UI controls you can already see on the display. Many of these controls already have keyboard shortcuts that people know and use ie: switching between tabs in a browser or clearing the search bar to enter text. So for the most part, the touch bar is not bringing in a ton of functionality you didn't already have with gestures / kb shortcuts but rather just provides another way to do the same thing. This may change as developers start to take advantage of the TB.
- The viewing angle is great, the display is crisp and clear. But you have to actually look away from the screen in order to interact with the touch bar. Maybe it's just me, but I tried using the laptop in a few different orientations and I could not find a way to look at the touch bar in my periphery without breaking my view of what's on the screen. This is an inefficiency that I do not have when I'm using keyboard shortcuts - I'm curious to hear if others have noticed this as well!
The battery life in the nTB absolutely trumps the TB. I was able to pull off 8-10 hours very consistently on the nTB and got 4-6 on the TB. This was actually the bigger reason why I returned the TB, as I have gotten accustomed to battery life on Apple portables to be non-negotiable. I really hope they find a way to fix this over time, but given that the TB's battery is ~5Watt-hours smaller and has a higher TDP CPU, it's going to take a lot of software power-saving optimizations to make this a reality.
Speakers - they sound a little bit better on the nTB. For some reason, on the TB it sounds like it's all coming out of the bottom of the grille, and the sides of the machine. On the nTB it sounds like it's uniformly coming up out of the grille. iFixit found that the speakers are actually positioned differently due to space constraints for the two machines. The quality of the sound on both is still a huge leap over last year's model, though.
But overall, if you like using the TB and you are a creative that would benefit from the various sliders and shortcuts being on the TB while your app is in fullscreen, and if you need 4 USB-C ports I would absolutely say get the TB model. If you are looking for a machine that is more of a successor to last year's 13" and retains the same core balance of Power / Portability / Battery Life, I would totally recommend the nTB.
Calling them isn't worth it - they keep checking the online inventory on store.apple.com which isn't always 100% accurate and is the same inventory you'd check on your side. If you walk into the store and ask, you may be surprised. When I went they had a few top-of-the-line models (basically everything maxed out) for the TB 13" and 15". For the nTB 13 - you can see which "popular configurations" are available through the online store.
one thing I think people overlook with nTB vs TB 13"
is lack of the side vents which people complain is sharp feeling in transit
not photographed well because you'd have to see it from the proper angle but
is lack of the side vents which people complain is sharp feeling in transit
not photographed well because you'd have to see it from the proper angle but