MP 7,1 The Pro Display XDR buyers thread

[chfilm]

How did poor quality videos (1080p) looked on the Pro Display XDR? Sadly, no New York city stores had any on display as of Jan 3, 2020. My mid December 2019 order is still stuck at Feb 4 - Feb 17 delivery.

Thanks.

I was playing back the 4K prores LT project from final cut on their demo unit in full screen and while soke
Shots looked gorgeous, others looked awful, like really grainy and not nice. The display brings out poor quality of not perfect footage with brutal clarity. It’s like this moment when you came from CRT Tvs to LCDs and suddenly everything looked horrendous.
[automerge]1578282757[/automerge]

The glossy indisputably looks better. I'd never be able to do the matte version without thinking about the standard glossy display quality. The matte version is expensive and, while nice, is still ultimately a compromise between your ambient lighting conditions and the native image quality.

I think if you go matte, you need to do so knowing that you don't have any other ways to control the reflectivity on the screen or that you have a reasonable fear that you'll be unable to control it in some future placement of your desk. In some ways, it's like insurance to make sure you don't have a 6000 dollar paperweight in the future just because the lighting at your new desk is terrible.

I have sort of a similar issue with the Nintendo Switch I carry around. I put a matte film on it because of the wide range of lighting conditions a portable device goes. And also, the screen is not laminated, so the glare from it is completely horrendous. Any time I have my matte version side by side with another stock Switch, I'm always a little surprised at how much better the screen looks without the film. We are of course talking about completely different products, but the moral is the same.

interesting that you say the glossy one indisputably looks better... I beg to differ, even though I’m usually an absolutely glossy person since many years, on this device I feel like the look on the matte version is so unique and special, I just love how it gives you this feeling to look directly at the content while on the glossy one I have glass between me and the images.
my issue is even during the day funnily i don’t have issues with reflections at my desk, it’s at night when they become annoying because I then have lights in my back.

 

[gugy]

I realize *you* might think that the nano version is pointless, but clearly Apple doesn't agree nor do the droves of folks picking them up. The world isn't perfect, and we can't always perfectly control our lighting, nor do we want to. That doesn't mean that the anti-glare feature is pointless or a self-contradiction--you just don't see the same value others do.

Nano is a must IMHO. Unless your work on a total dark room, something I despise due the stress on my vision, the nano works wonders on bright environments. I still have my two 30” ACDs and love them due the matte finish. My plan is to get the Nano to add on my set up. While I would not want to pay more for this option, I rather get that than consider the glare and reflections standard glass displays have.

 

[Logix1]

Glossy Vs matte is a personal preference, the ones who bought the nano version should be thankful that Apple gave us the option to choose between glossy and matte.
I personally love the glossy look, I think everything looks more alive, while with a matte screen the image looks a bit more grainy, and even if both versions were the same price i'de choose the glossy display.

There is a Youtube video from Max Tech, he tried to connect the display with all kinds of computers and it worked with some unsupported machines / OS so I wonder if it would be possible to make it work with a 5,1 Mac pro with RX580 and an "8K 60Hz" Displayport 1.4 to USB C cable.

Here is a link to the cable: https://www.amazon.com/Displayport-Cable-120Hz-bi-Directional-Support/dp/B07R1NBCXK

And the Youtube video:

 

[mattspace]

XDR Vs. (actual) Reference Monitors.

Thread:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213220980912541702

 

[Adult80HD]

View attachment 887093

XDR Vs. (actual) Reference Monitors.

Thread:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1213220980912541702

So basically if you put it in a worst-case scenario, it can't compete with $35,000-45,000 displays. OK, I can live with that compromise given the price point.

 

[mattspace]

So basically if you put it in a worst-case scenario, it can't compete with $35,000-45,000 displays. OK, I can live with that compromise given the price point.

As the author states, Apple is comparing the XDR against Reference monitors, so this is what the actual comparison shows - the edge-case of lit against dark is, in a large part, the purpose, or the marginal improvement that a "pro" reference monitor represents over "consumer" display.

 

[joevt]

Glossy Vs matte is a personal preference, the ones who bought the nano version should be thankful that Apple gave us the option to choose between glossy and matte.
I personally love the glossy look, I think everything looks more alive, while with a matte screen the image looks a bit more grainy, and even if both versions were the same price i'de choose the glossy display.

There is a Youtube video from Max Tech, he tried to connect the display with all kinds of computers and it worked with some unsupported machines / OS so I wonder if it would be possible to make it work with a 5,1 Mac pro with RX580 and an "8K 60Hz" Displayport 1.4 to USB C cable.

Here is a link to the cable: https://www.amazon.com/Displayport-Cable-120Hz-bi-Directional-Support/dp/B07R1NBCXK

And the Youtube video:

It won't work at 6K if it works at all. If it doesn't work, then it may require a USB 2.0 signal to go with the DisplayPort 1.4 signal.

If you want 6K from a MacPro5,1 then you need a GC-TITAN RIDGE to convert two DisplayPort 1.4 signals to Thunderbolt 3. I don't think anyone has tried that yet.

The video from Max Tech was interesting but he was surprised multiple times by the same result - that the XDR display does work with non-Thunderbolt USB-C connections. I would have liked to see AGDCDiagnose info for each test to see how it changes with different connection types. So far I've only seen a 5K dual DisplayPort 1.2 connection. I still want to see 4K (from a MacBook), 6K dual DisplayPort 1.4 (from a 2018 MacBook Pro or Blackmagic eGPU) and 6K DSC (which may be single or dual DisplayPort 1.4) from a 2019 MacBook Pro or W5700X or similar card.

 

[Logix1]

It won't work at 6K if it works at all. If it doesn't work, then it may require a USB 2.0 signal to go with the DisplayPort 1.4 signal.

If you want 6K from a MacPro5,1 then you needca GC-TITAN RIDGE to convert two DisplayPort 1.4 signals to Thunderbolt 3. I don't think anyone has tried that yet.

The video from Max Tech was interesting but he was surprised multiple times by the same result - that the XDR display does work with non-Thunderbolt USB-C connections. I would have liked to see AGDCDiagnose info for each test to see how it changes with different connection types. So far I've only seen a 5K dual DisplayPort 1.2 connection. I still want to see 4K (from a MacBook), 6K dual DisplayPort 1.4 (from a 2018 MacBook Pro or Blackmagic eGPU) and 6K DSC (which may be single or dual DisplayPort 1.4) from a 2019 MacBook Pro or W5700X or similar card.

It's getting tricky.. a 5,1 Mac pro isn't Catalina compatible
RX 5700 XT won't work with OS older than Catalina
a GC-TITAN RIDGE requires Windows which isn't installed on my Mac
I should get a 5k2k LG Ultrawide by the end of the week and I hope I will like it enough to keep it at least for a year.. otherwise the only way to get the XDR display is to buy it together with the new Mac Pro, since other Macs are not an option for me.

 

[joevt]

It's getting tricky.. a 5,1 Mac pro isn't Catalina compatible
RX 5700 XT won't work with OS older than Catalina
a GC-TITAN RIDGE requires Windows which isn't installed on my Mac
I should get a 5k2k LG Ultrawide by the end of the week and I hope I will like it enough to keep it at least for a year.. otherwise the only way to get the XDR display is to buy it together with the new Mac Pro, since other Macs are not an option for me.

Yes, there are some hurdles to get over but it should be possible. Catalina can be installed on the classic Mac Pro. I think the 5700XT will work after Catalina is installed. The display should work at 6K in macOS with any AMD graphics card that supports DisplayPort 1.4 (so RX580 should work too). The GC-TITAN RIDGE might work without Windows but you may be missing some features from the XDR (auto rotate, USB ports, brightness control?). You can install Windows for free.

 

[Coyote2006]

It's getting tricky.. a 5,1 Mac pro isn't Catalina compatible
RX 5700 XT won't work with OS older than Catalina
a GC-TITAN RIDGE requires Windows which isn't installed on my Mac
I should get a 5k2k LG Ultrawide by the end of the week and I hope I will like it enough to keep it at least for a year.. otherwise the only way to get the XDR display is to buy it together with the new Mac Pro, since other Macs are not an option for me.

I'm also still using my 5,1 and have upgraded it with a $200 RX580 in order to run the just ordered LG 38WK95C-W. But I will probably also order a new MacPro.

I think it's just about time to send the good old 5,1 MacPro to its well deserved retirement after using it for amazingly 10 years.

The XDR might follow later.

 

[deconstruct60]

View attachment 887093

XDR Vs. (actual) Reference Monitors.

The XDR might do slightly better if it was clipped to the same max peak brightness of XM311K of 1000 nits. The viewing angles aren't all the same either. ( there are limits to getting all three in field of view but can tell here that the monitors are oriented at different angles here on top field of view constraints.. )

It is more likely that the XDR is going to get used in a room/location with light. ( hence the + $1,000 matte model). The tweet stream notes that the XM100k trades off brighter peak luminescence for some bleed. XDR is doing the same thing to a larger extent.

 

[Logix1]

Yes, there are some hurdles to get over but it should be possible. Catalina can be installed on the classic Mac Pro. I think the 5700XT will work after Catalina is installed. The display should work at 6K in macOS with any AMD graphics card that supports DisplayPort 1.4 (so RX580 should work too). The GC-TITAN RIDGE might work without Windows but you may be missing some features from the XDR (auto rotate, USB ports, brightness control?). You can install Windows for free.

So it sounds like once you have Catalina on a 5,1 Mac Pro you can use the XDR display just fine as long as you have RX 580 or newer AMD card.
Physically, how would you connect the RX 580 to the display? Would the DP 1.4 to USB C cable I linked to earlier work or you still need thunderbolt?

 

[Stanly.ok]

how would you connect the RX 580 to the display

On the support page it says that XDR can be connected only through TB3 ports on the Mac Pro inself

Use the Radeon Pro 580X MPX Module with your Mac Pro (2019) - Apple Support

Learn about the many different display setups you can use with your MPX Module on your Mac Pro (2019).

support.apple.com

 

[s66]

x

 

[chfilm]

I got the glossy one for one simple reason: the cleaning instructions of the matte one are way out there. Only with apple's cloth, only dry, no fluids, not even water. Better keep everybody out of your office from cleaning lady over pointing fingers, to sneezing colleagues. And better not use it if you have a cold.

I actually once damaged a MBP's scree by rubbing it a bit too hard in one spot to remove something sticking to the screen. I managed to damage the coating while the spot I tried to remove was still in the center of it. Lucky for me I was using apple's black cloth that came with one of the MBPs. After explaining all that, Apple Care actually replace the entire screen (no charge) even though I honestly felt it was partly my own fault for rubbing a bit too hard - lesson learned: screens are fragile, even when Apple doesn't mention that.
So that apple mentions the nano is fragile - I'm staying away from it, even if I hate glare with a vengeance.

What you’re describing Is in line with how urgently the salesperson wanted to convince me to get 500€ Apple care with the display!

 

[joevt]

On the support page it says that XDR can be connected only through TB3 ports on the Mac Pro inself

Use the Radeon Pro 580X MPX Module with your Mac Pro (2019) - Apple Support

Learn about the many different display setups you can use with your MPX Module on your Mac Pro (2019).

support.apple.com

The video from Max Tech shows the XDR works when connected to an iPad Pro which does not have Thunderbolt. There were some computers with USB-C (not Thunderbolt) that didn't work - that was a strange result that needs more investigation. For example, the Chromebook detected the display as a display but the XDR would not show a picture.

• 11" iPad Pro : USB-C, not HDR, not full screen
• 2018 15" MacBook Pro: Mojave works at 4K. Catalina adds presets and 6K.
• 2015 13" MacBook Air Thunderbolt 2: screen says 5K but must be 4K [AE21].
• 2017 iMac 5K: 5K
• iMac Pro: 5K
• 2019 iMac 5K: 6K
• Google Pixelbook Go (Chromebook, Intel graphics): display detected, but XDR doesn't power on.
• Dell XPS 13 2 in 1, Thunderbolt 3 (10th gen Intel graphics): 5K display but XDR doesn't power on.
• ASUS Mini PC Quadro P4000: 5K HDR? No brightness control. 4K HDR playback in Youtube.
• Microsoft Surface Laptop 3 (10th gen Intel graphics): 6K 8bpc.
• 2019 16" MacBook Pro (Boot Camp): 6K 10bpc HDR (Boot Camp drivers allow changing the brightness).

The 6K 8bpc result for the Surface is a surprise. Seems that 10th gen Intel CPUs with Iris graphics now support DisplayPort 1.4 with Display Stream Compression (DSC).

So it sounds like once you have Catalina on a 5,1 Mac Pro you can use the XDR display just fine as long as you have RX 580 or newer AMD card.
Physically, how would you connect the RX 580 to the display? Would the DP 1.4 to USB C cable I linked to earlier work or you still need thunderbolt?

Connect two DisplayPort outputs of GPU to GC-TITAN RIDGE. Then connect Thunderbolt cable to XDR display.

Thunderbolt is not required. I don't recall if someone found that USB is required. The DP 1.4 to USB-C cable might work but not at 6K. Maybe 5K? I don't have EDID info from AGDCDiagnose output for single cable DisplayPort 1.4 mode. There aren't a lot of USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode ports that don't also support Thunderbolt. The HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 has such a port.

Output from DisplayDiagnose has shown that 6K with DSC from a 5500M or 5300M only requires a single DisplayPort 1.4 connection running at HBR2 speed. Tech specs say the W5700X also supports DSC. Same might be true for 5700 XT? If the 5700XT supports DSC, then it could support 6K without a GC-TITAN RIDGE but you still need a method to convert DisplayPort to USB-C.

A DisplayPort to USB-C cable is sufficient for the newer version of the LG UltraFine 5K display but the old LG UltraFine 4K display required USB with the DisplayPort signal so something like the Huawei VR 2 cable or Wacom Link Plus or Sunix UPD2018 was required (or, for Thunderbolt 2 Macs, a Thunderbolt 3 dock).

 

[mattspace]

The XDR might do slightly better if it was clipped to the same max peak brightness of XM311K of 1000 nits. The viewing angles aren't all the same either. ( there are limits to getting all three in field of view but can tell here that the monitors are oriented at different angles here on top field of view constraints.. )

It is more likely that the XDR is going to get used in a room/location with light. ( hence the + $1,000 matte model). The tweet stream notes that the XM100k trades off brighter peak luminescence for some bleed. XDR is doing the same thing to a larger extent.

The viewing angle in the photo and max brightness aren't why the $45k reference monitor goes immediately from full illumination to pitch black, whereas the cherries on the XDR look like Pink Floyd concerts at night, in a particularly foggy field.

Apple went with a low-density FALD, and that's the result you get.

 

[Bradleyone]

the cherries on the XDR look like Pink Floyd concerts at night, in a particularly foggy field.

Cherries, is that what they are.

All true, but I can't help thinking that image/video sequence has been hand-tuned to maximise the failure.

Someone clearly had their hand on the HDR knobs and cranked them up. I wonder if actual footage from a camera of a real world scene, such as a city nightscape, would have failed so badly on an XDR?

Which, of course, is not to say that a reference monitor shouldn't be capable of reproducing any scene, no matter how artificial.

This shortcoming of the XDR could have a side-benefit: it could help prevent the grading disaster that was the Game of Thrones final season's Battle of Winterfell night fight.

I'm sure the sequence looked fine on a reference monitor. Less so on 75% of the viewers' TVs. When similar scenes are filmed with Dolby Vision TVs in mind, it'd be nice if there was a sanity check somewhere in the pipe.

All this begs for quality, trustworthy reviews of the Pro Display XDR. Not just demonstrations from companies with expensive products to sell.

 

[s66]

x

 

[joevt]

A 2016 13" MacBook Pro (4 TB3 ports, Iris 550) essentially froze while hooked up to the display.
[mouse pointer barely moved at all anymore]
It did produce a very washed-out image on the XDR display with some other weird effects like the left edge showing things that should not be there at all. lt all went back to normal on the laptop as soon as the XDR was disconnected.

I would expect it to work at 5K at least. Output from AGDCDiagnose and DisplayDiagnose might help. Maybe a modification to the mtdd or override file can fix it.

 

[s66]

x

 

[macpro2000]

I did myself: works as a 5K monitor on a Mac Pro 6.1 with D700 GPUs
Compared to the apple thunderbolt display next to it:
- when in the bottom most position on the stand the bottom of the image on the XDR is about at the same height from the table as the thunderbolt display.

[I'm not sure how I see if it's HDR enabled or not ? - Not sure the 2013 Mac Pro can even generate that]

View attachment 887583

I have a 6,1 MP with D500 with 5x30” ACD right now. (It can do 6 I tried but don’t have room) If I got an XDR to run 5K until I get a new MP, how many of the 30” ACDs could I still run along with it?

 

[joevt]

I did myself: works as a 5K monitor on a Mac Pro 6.1 with D700 GPUs
Compared to the apple thunderbolt display next to it:
- when in the bottom most position on the stand the bottom of the image on the XDR is about at the same height from the table as the thunderbolt display.

[I'm not sure how I see if it's HDR enabled or not ? - Not sure the 2013 Mac Pro can even generate that]

You have to show the timing in SwitchResX to prove it's running at 5K. The signal being sent to the XDR is probably only 4K since Thunderbolt 2 can only transmit one 4K signal. In SwitchResX, double click the current resolution in the Current Resolutions tab to view the timing. It will show Pixel Clock, Active, Scaled To, Scan Rate for the current resolution.

The MacPro6,1 only support DisplayPort 1.2 but HDR require DisplayPort 1.4. You can get 10 bpc color with DisplayPort 1.2 but it won't be HDR.

The following commands will show the connection information for the display (DisplayPort version, link speed, number of lanes, Display Stream Compression capability/status/enabled, supported timings, etc.

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/AGDCDiagnose -a > AGDCDiagnose.txt 2>&1
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/DisplayDiagnose -a > DisplayDiagnose.txt 2>&1

I have a 6,1 MP with D500 with 5x30” ACD right now. (It can do 6 I tried but don’t have room) If I got an XDR to run 5K until I get a new MP, how many of the 30” ACDs could I still run along with it?

The XDR will only work at 4K with the D500. With one XDR, you can run 5 ACDs. To run the XDR at 5K or 6K, you need to connect a Blackmagic EGPU. Apple doesn't support eGPUs with Thunderbolt 2 Macs (for no good reason) so you'll need to use a workaround (visit eGPU.io website, and look at existing Builds).

Without an eGPU, you might be able to get 5K by connecting your MacPro6,1 to a GC-TITAN RIDGE with two mini DisplayPort cables, then connect the XDR to the GC-TITAN RIDGE. You will be missing some features though.

 

[th0masp]

This shortcoming of the XDR could have a side-benefit: it could help prevent the grading disaster that was the Game of Thrones final season's Battle of Winterfell night fight.

I'm sure the sequence looked fine on a reference monitor. Less so on 75% of the viewers' TVs. When similar scenes are filmed with Dolby Vision TVs in mind, it'd be nice if there was a sanity check somewhere in the pipe.

The icing on that particular cake was that they even went all out to the public stating how carefully they made everything so dark. Well, I had to close the curtains and kill all lights to not look at the living room reflected back onto the glossy (!) 4k screen. It's like they've never even been in a living room...
It was bearable though after loading the video into VLC and bumping up the brightness. Halos and compression artifacts from the stream were preferable over their 'grading'.

Going by this twitter thread linked above the XDR does not look like a reference display you'd pick instead of the expensive ones. It got the best viewing angle of those three as well in that image.
The test case might be an extreme outlier but it looks like you'll still need that big boy monitor to really be sure when doing color critical work.

 

[Beliyaal]

My usage for the display coding primarily. I'm picky about display quality and the primary reason for getting it was to get more screen real estate. I can't abide non-retina screens and no other display has the right DPI combined with size.

The Good

• I can now fit two code windows side by side with extra space left over compared to 5k displays

The Bad

• Even though the display has the potential for higher brightness, I can't make use of it outside of HDR content. The iMac Pro display is actually slightly brighter at max brightness.
• Blooming from FALD is not the same color temperature as display is set as (Night Shift). Not sure if this could be fixed, or if the quantization would be too high.
• FALD causes dirty screen effect. Especially visible on grey backgrounds.

Pro Display XDR left and iMac Pro right:

• Bright text on black background really shows the limitations of the FALD. I had to change my background from 0% to 2% to get it even.

The Ugly

• The FALD algorithm eats shadow detail. It has some threshold where it just ignores the pixels. Noticeable when decreasing the brightness.

1%, 2%, 4%, 8%, 16%, 32%, 64%, 100% grey text all in different FALD zones on black background, in Pro Display XDR (P3-1600 nits) mode:

100% brightness	50% brightness	Min brightness

The same thing with larger text show less aggressive culling:

100% brightness	50% brightness	Min brightness

Conclusion
I wish there was a way to disable the FALD, or tweak it's strength. There is a reason TVs with this technology has support for disabling it.

As a reference monitor I worry that the run of badly edited blacks/near blacks in HDR content will continue. As someone who uses an OLED TV in a completely dark room I hope I'm wrong.