Other This is why I will not buy iPhone 12: OLED = PWM

[kargurin]

I recorded some more slow mo videos on my iPad of my Note 10+ and Pro Max 12 side by side. Earlier I mentioned I see little difference between the two while looking at a Yahoo Finance page. So I opened up Kindle this time recording video from the same page. There is definitely a difference. The iPhone strobes more. I am uncertain how valid this video is, I’ve just seen it done elsewhere. From what I read both screens use PWM. The frequencies don’t seem to be substantially different but what I’m seeing in the video is substantially different.

 

[now i see it]

While its known that iPhone OLED screens suck eyeballs, taking a video of the flickering beast is not definitive.
Cameras shoot at 30fps or 60fps or slow-mo 240fps and what they capture and show depends on what they're shooting. If an iPhone shoots a video of another iPhone screen, it's a matter of chance whether the camera shutter will synchronize with the flickering or not.

 

[kargurin]

That's why I added the qualifier that I don't know just how valid those videos are. I bought the Pro Max 12 last Thursday which means I have a little more than a week to decide if I keep it. I still have the Note 10 Plus. I've been having some mild headaches lately. While at the same time, unfortunately, my sinuses have had a bad time lately so I am not sure about cause and effect. I did own the Max 10 for awhile. I had no issue with PWM. But now it's in my head. Got to get out of my head.

 

[Actanarius]

Is there any way to know ahead of time whether you will be susceptible to problems caused by PWM? I have never used an OLED phone but I am considering buying an iPhone 12. It would be nice to know what to expect.

Does this correlate with anything else, such as sensitivity to fluorescent light flicker, problems with migraines etc.? (I have none of those, but I do get dry eyes sometimes.)

 

[MICHAELSD]

Is there any way to know ahead of time whether you will be susceptible to problems caused by PWM? I have never used an OLED phone but I am considering buying an iPhone 12. It would be nice to know what to expect.

Does this correlate with anything else, such as sensitivity to fluorescent light flicker, problems with migraines etc.? (I have none of those, but I do get dry eyes sometimes.)

Other than maybe checking out a store demo, I can’t say there is. This seems to be an issue specific to the OLED display on iPhone for consumers that are sensitive.

I’ve had no issues at all with flicker beforehand and had the first migraine, and a quite profound one at that, in my life literally the second I powered on iPhone X.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Is there any way to know ahead of time whether you will be susceptible to problems caused by PWM? I have never used an OLED phone but I am considering buying an iPhone 12. It would be nice to know what to expect.

Does this correlate with anything else, such as sensitivity to fluorescent light flicker, problems with migraines etc.? (I have none of those, but I do get dry eyes sometimes.)

I wouldn't worry about it. Go fourth, purchase and enjoy. Don't look for an issue as it's a small percentage of people who are affected by PWM. ?

Hopefully you'll buy from a shop that will take returns if you have an issue for piece of mind.

 

[noobinator]

Has anyone had problems first time on the 12 series? I have had headaches and dizziness since getting my 12 Pro and just never connected it to my phone since I've had no issues on previous OLED iPhones. The day I stopped using the 12 Pro my headaches and dizziness stopped. I'm on a Pixel 5 now and have had no issues. Just weird that it never happened until the 12 Pro.

 

[kargurin]

Has anyone had problems first time on the 12 series? I have had headaches and dizziness since getting my 12 Pro and just never connected it to my phone since I've had no issues on previous OLED iPhones. The day I stopped using the 12 Pro my headaches and dizziness stopped. I'm on a Pixel 5 now and have had no issues. Just weird that it never happened until the 12 Pro.

Yes. I decided to return my 12 pro max on Friday. Headaches and eye strain gone. Will continue to use my Note 10 + until my S21 Ultra arrives next week. Really like the phone and it's too bad.... especially since I bought 2 cases and purchased a few apps. I owned the Max X with no issues. I've got old eyes so I don't know if that's catching up to me or it is PWM or a lesser PPI vs the Note 10. Though it's not different by alot.

 

[neil74]

There has to be something else at play here as the iPhone frequency at least according to Notebook checker is not too disimilar to other OLED phones. On my 12 Pro Max I get just a niggling headache after extended use whereas on my Note 20 ultra I am fine.

Others have speculated that maybe the FaceID IR could be contributing

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

There has to be something else at play here as the iPhone frequency at least according to Notebook checker is not too disimilar to other OLED phones. On my 12 Pro Max I get just a niggling headache after extended use whereas on my Note 20 ultra I am fine.

Others have speculated that maybe the FaceID IR could be contributing

There have been members who not only turned off FaceID entirely, but placed black tape over the notch to block everything housed behind there and still had their same issues. Not saying it can’t be FaceID, but it’s been pretty well debunked over the past several years.

 

[kargurin]

Here's a slow motion video I recorded from an iPad of the 12 Pro Max. I also recorded the Note 10 plus side by side but I had to zoom out and the quality was so bad from the iPad camera it wasn't usable after uploading. The Note did not flicker like this.

Screen flickering 12 ProMax

The above video was recorded several days ago.....this one I just did. Note 10 Plus, same content.

Screen flickering Note 10+

 

[noobinator]

I read somewhere that the 12 pro flickers at a slower speed than previous iPhone OLED models which could help explain some issues. I'm not completely sold though and also think something else could be going on. I don't think it's face ID in my case though as I was fine on the X, Xs Max, and 11 Pro.

 

[MICHAELSD]

There has to be something else at play here as the iPhone frequency at least according to Notebook checker is not too disimilar to other OLED phones. On my 12 Pro Max I get just a niggling headache after extended use whereas on my Note 20 ultra I am fine.

Others have speculated that maybe the FaceID IR could be contributing

Frequency doesn’t tell the whole story, as there are also other factors in play when discussing PWM.

That being said iPhone X had a similar 240Hz frequency to iPhone 12 Pro Max and iPhone X caused me 24/7 migraines for as long as I had owned it and even for a period afterwards. It was almost impossible for me to stare at that display for even a few seconds without getting incredibly strong migraines. iPhone 12 Pro Max seems improved to the point it’s no longer debilitating, and while I’m still getting migraines/headaches I probably could continue using this phone if I wanted to which is promising at least for further improvements on future generations.

The issue to me is the residual migraines I get from it where I’ll have migraines after I put the phone down. They’re not painful per se, just concerning and shouldn’t be an issue at this point. I can’t stress how much I love my iPhone 12 Pro Max, but I’ll probably have to return it.

Note10+ does appear to have less aggressive flickering on camera. I’ll look further into it.

Per Notebookcheck, “The panel in our review unit flickers between 122.5 and 250 Hz, which is low enough to cause issues for those who are PWM sensitive. Likewise, the panel flickers at 60 Hz at 100%, so we would recommend trying the Note 10+ before buying it if you know you are PWM sensitive. Samsung does not include any special dimming features such as DC dimming as Huawei and OnePlus do with some of their flagships.”

The PWM curve itself at 250Hz appears fairly similar to iPhone 12 Pro Max:

Note 10+

iPhone 12 Pro Max

I’m not sure if they zoomed in more on the iPhone, but it appears that the Note 10+ has a more shallow PWM curve which should lead to less issues.

Edit: it does appear more zoomed in on the iPhone since they measured a timeframe of 2ms on the Note vs 5ms on the iPhone. They are incredibly similar, but not identical.

I’m curious to see what happens with the new S21, since Samsung added DC dimming above 30% to the S20 “Fan Edition.”

Side note: it’s odd because I can stare at the display on iPhone 12 Pro Max at times without an issue, then I’ll start getting migraines and even visibly see flicker.

 

[kargurin]

Even if you can fight through it you should return the phone just to preserve your health. It is very strange because I believe the Note 10 also shares a similar PWM frequency range as the iPhones. But to me the fonts seem fuller and easier to read. But we all see things a bit differently. I became uncomfortable just looking at my home screen where there was a big Weatherline widget taking up half of the screen. Sometimes though you can't get out of your own head and if you expect to feel eyestrain, you will. I just know I no longer have headaches after switching out the iphone with the Samsung.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Even if you can fight through it you should return the phone just to preserve your health. It is very strange because I believe the Note 10 also shares a similar PWM frequency range as the iPhones. But to me the fonts seem fuller and easier to read. But we all see things a bit differently. I became uncomfortable just looking at my home screen where there was a big Weatherline widget taking up half of the screen. Sometimes though you can't get out of your own head and if you expect to feel eyestrain, you will. I just know I no longer have headaches after switching out the iphone with the Samsung.

I would consider trying a Samsung phone for 14 days just to see if I get headaches from it, but I honestly have no desire. I did feel there was something odd with the Galaxy phones whenever I stared at a store demo.

I do think no matter how nice the phone is if it causes migraines it should be returned for health concerns. Just because I can use it and fight through migraines that are more mild than they were on iPhone X doesn’t mean I should. Still, it’s gonna be a sad day when I return it since I’d love to keep an identical phone with a display that didn’t flicker.

Edit: Now that you’ve mentioned it, I am slightly curious to try a Galaxy S21. I’m loyal to Apple and have had absolutely no interest in the S21 or any of Samsung’s phones up until this point, but if I can get a modern smartphone without migraines I would be willing to give it a shot. They also offer a $350 trade-in credit for the iPhone 8 Plus.

 

[kargurin]

Note that there is a substantial difference in screen resolution between the S21 Ultra and non Ultra versions (516 vs 424 vs 393 PPI). That may or may not make a real world difference but is worth noting. All adaptively refresh to 120 Mhz. Also you may want to consider the Pixels and One Plus phones. I have no experience with them but they are somewhat popular.

 

[now i see it]

trading in a iPhone 8 Plus for a galaxy S21 is going backwards except for the camera

 

[MICHAELSD]

I started researching the S21 models and ended up back at watching videos about the iPhone 12.

I am still intrigued to test the standard iPhone 12 if for no reason other than I think the aluminum design looks amazing this year. I’d hope if iPhone 12 Pro uses a different PWM implementation than the Max that the standard 12 would as well since they use the same panel. This is frustrating because I have the feeling that once I return the Max I’ll end up ordering another iPhone, and I’d like to be able to keep one of them if only I didn’t get migraines. Even the Mini is oddly tempting.

The camera system on the S12 Ultra is impressive, especially its 3x telephoto lens along with an additional 10x optical zoom, and Samsung has aggressive pre-order/trade-in offers. But I still view it as an inferior experience overall.

 

[neil74]

I’m curious to see what happens with the new S21, since Samsung added DC dimming above 30% to the S20 “Fan Edition.”

I never knew that, that is interesting. Thought it was just Huawei, Oneplus and Oppo who had this.

Re the iPhone is the whole accessibility whitepoint workaround a non-starter now? I seem to remember it being touted back when people were moaning about the X/XS for this.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I never knew that, that is interesting. Thought it was just Huawei, Oneplus and Oppo who had this.

Re the iPhone is the whole accessibility whitepoint workaround a non-starter now? I seem to remember it being touted back when people were moaning about the X/XS for this.

Sadly it looks like Oneplus have abandoned DC dimming in options.

I personally think the white point "workaround" was a placebo.

I wanted to jump on the S21 Ultra especially with the preorder freebies but the Samsung UK store gets panned on review sites for having the worst customer service ever so I'm avoiding, at least until I know if DC dimming is in affect or not.

 

[neil74]

Sadly it looks like Oneplus have abandoned DC dimming in options.

Jeez another bombshell there! I only looked at a OnePlus 8 Pro last week and the DC dimming option was there.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Jeez another bombshell there! I only looked at a OnePlus 8 Pro last week and the DC dimming option was there.

At least that's what I've read regarding OxygenOS.

 

[Fred Zed]

There have been members who not only turned off FaceID entirely, but placed black tape over the notch to block everything housed behind there and still had their same issues. Not saying it can’t be FaceID, but it’s been pretty well debunked over the past several years.

Or turn off Attention Aware feature.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I never knew that, that is interesting. Thought it was just Huawei, Oneplus and Oppo who had this.

Re the iPhone is the whole accessibility whitepoint workaround a non-starter now? I seem to remember it being touted back when people were moaning about the X/XS for this.

That “workaround” never worked since the display flickers all the way up to and including at max brightness. Funnily enough it seems like they adjusted the PWM specifically for Reduce White Point (probably to maintain display quality) and a user in another thread found that the display flickers more with Reduce White Point enabled at an equivalent brightness.

 

[jrajpaul]

I am having the same issue with the 12 Pro. Intense headache, dizziness and neck pain when I look at the screen for 5 minutes. I didn’t experience this with the iPhone X. If I used the iPhone X for a long period of time I would get a slight headache. With the 12 pro, it is unbearable.

For now I am testing:
Auto brightness off
Set screen brightness to 21 percent (flickering at 223hz - 250hz according to notebookcheck)
True Tone on.
Reduce white point off.

I will report back my findings. Is there any way that we can contact apple about this. They could add a setting in accessibility for users who are sensitive to pwm. The dizziness is a health hazard. Maybe there is a jailbreak tweak for this?