Other This is why I will not buy iPhone 12: OLED = PWM

[Turbohkp]

Recently just got back my iPhone, I request them change from Samsung display to LG DISPLAY. After that, everything work fine even at lowest brightness.

 

[jimmy_uk]

View attachment 1719028
Recently just got back my iPhone, I request them change from Samsung display to LG DISPLAY. After that, everything work fine even at lowest brightness.

Hi, are you sensitive to PWM with the Samsung display and now saying with the LG display your okay?

 

[Turbohkp]

Hi, are you sensitive to PWM with the Samsung display and now saying with the LG display your okay?

Yup samsung display make me headache in just 30 min, but lg display i can play 8 hours straight without any problems

 

[jrajpaul]

How do you request the display change? I suspect it is the same for me. I currently cannot use the phone for more then 5 minutes without getting headache and dizziness.

 

[Turbohkp]

How do you request the display change? I suspect it is the same for me. I currently cannot use the phone for more then 5 minutes without getting headache and dizziness.

Malaysia don’t have apple store, so i go apple authorised reseller told them i got headache. I suspect it’s Samsung display problem then i ask them if they know which brand of display is it. They said samsung so I request to change.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Malaysia don’t have apple store, so i go apple authorised reseller told them i got headache. I suspect it’s Samsung display problem then i ask them if they know which brand of display is it. They said samsung so I request to change.

A USA or UK Apple store would not change the display if requested.
A third party might - I suspect this will void the warranty.

Glad you got a result that's worked for you Turbohkp. ?

 

[Turbohkp]

A USA or UK Apple store would not change the display if requested.
A third party might - I suspect this will void the warranty.

Glad you got a result that's worked for you Turbohkp. ?

Not sure, have u try walk in to store and ask them?

 

[Turbohkp]

I think Samsung trying to sabotage apple sales, apple should avoid Samsung. Apple should use lg as main display and boe as secondary

 

[noobinator]

Do some iPhone 12s use LG stock from Apple? Random? Or based on 12 mini vs 12 vs Pro vs Pro Max?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Yup samsung display make me headache in just 30 min, but lg display i can play 8 hours straight without any problems

How can we know whether we have a Samsung or a LG display?

On Mac’s it was possible to differentiate based on serial number if I recall correctly.

Edit: MacRumors reported that LG would supply displays for the 6.1” iPhone 12 alongside Samsung, and Samsung would exclusively handle the other three models.

LG Display to Supply 20 Million OLED Panels for 6.1-inch 'iPhone 12'

Apple is expected to launch an all-OLED iPhone lineup this year, and while Samsung is understood to be providing the majority of the OLED panels, LG...

www.macrumors.com

 

[MICHAELSD]

I am having the same issue with the 12 Pro. Intense headache, dizziness and neck pain when I look at the screen for 5 minutes. I didn’t experience this with the iPhone X. If I used the iPhone X for a long period of time I would get a slight headache. With the 12 pro, it is unbearable.

For now I am testing:
Auto brightness off
Set screen brightness to 21 percent (flickering at 223hz - 250hz according to notebookcheck)
True Tone on.
Reduce white point off.

I will report back my findings. Is there any way that we can contact apple about this. They could add a setting in accessibility for users who are sensitive to pwm. The dizziness is a health hazard. Maybe there is a jailbreak tweak for this?

Apparently there’s also a 60Hz “almost DC dimming” mode between 22%-50% brightness, though I haven’t seen anybody who’s sensitive reporting that it helped.

 

[jrajpaul]

I’ve tried all brightness levels. Between 22-50 percent. Above 50 percent. Below 22 percent. Nothing is helping. Extreme nausea and dizziness when looking the screen for a few minutes. It’s causing neck pain as well.

Any suggestions?

 

[DJTaurus]

Is there a way to determine display from serial ?

 

[noobinator]

I’ve tried all brightness levels. Between 22-50 percent. Above 50 percent. Below 22 percent. Nothing is helping. Extreme nausea and dizziness when looking the screen for a few minutes. It’s causing neck pain as well.

Any suggestions?

Sell the phone.

 

[now i see it]

I’ve tried all brightness levels. Between 22-50 percent. Above 50 percent. Below 22 percent. Nothing is helping. Extreme nausea and dizziness when looking the screen for a few minutes. It’s causing neck pain as well.

Any suggestions?

The best display in regards to eye strain is the older 401 ppi LCD Plus phones 6 through 8. They're superior to their smaller variants and in a completely different league compared to the flickering OLED screens of the later models.

 

[jrajpaul]

This is not merely eye strain. This is a strange brain response to the flickering caused by PWM which is causing dangerous health symptoms. I have read reports of other users experiencing the same brain response.

I am swopping my 12 pro with my wife’s iPhone 11 (lcd). It’s a hardware downgrade but I can’t tolerate the screen of the 12 pro. Hopefully apple can resolve this with a software update or the iPhone 13.

 

[noobinator]

This is not merely eye strain. This is a strange brain response to the flickering caused by PWM which is causing dangerous health symptoms. I have read reports of other users experiencing the same brain response.

I am swopping my 12 pro with my wife’s iPhone 11 (lcd). It’s a hardware downgrade but I can’t tolerate the screen of the 12 pro. Hopefully apple can resolve this with a software update or the iPhone 13.

Yeah, mine was pretty bad. I was looking at my phone one night and it was so bad that I was worried I was having a stroke or seizure or something. My brain was doing all sorts of loops and spins etc. I went to the Dr. a few times before I put 2 and 2 together and realized it was my phone. Not a single issue since selling my 12 pro.

 

[lambertjohn]

I love the display on my iPhone 12 Pro. Best screen I've ever seen on any iPhone I've owned before it. Just saying, some of us have no issues at all with OLED.

 

[jrajpaul]

Here are two videos. The first one is the iPhone X. The screen flashes slower and in opposite direction to the iPhone 12 Pro. I can tolerate the iPhone X.

The faster refresh on the iPhone 12 Pro is probably causing a strobe light effect and brain response. I am sensitive to motion sickness as well so that could be a factor. Crazy.

iPhone X PWM flicker
iPhone 12 Pro PWM flicker

 

[MICHAELSD]

Here are two videos. The first one is the iPhone X. The screen flashes slower and in opposite direction to the iPhone 12 Pro. I can tolerate the iPhone X.

The faster refresh on the iPhone 12 Pro is probably causing a strobe light effect and brain response. I am sensitive to motion sickness as well so that could be a factor. Crazy.

iPhone X PWM flicker
iPhone 12 Pro PWM flicker

This is anecdotal for me but I couldn’t even use iPhone X without constant throbbing pain that persisted even when I went to bed at night. While iPhone 12 Pro Max has been an improvement and is no longer completely debilitating, I can’t rule out light migraines and headaches which do still occur during and usually after using the phone.

The problem is I think this phone is absolutely fantastic and I’d gladly keep it for possibly even 2-3 years if only it didn’t have PWM flickering. I should return it and get it over with but I can’t bring myself to since it’s such a joy to hold and use otherwise.

My observation among all of the threads I’ve seen is that generally iPhone 12 Pro Max is the most well-tolerated, and it also has the lowest flicker coefficient at higher brightnesses. This is followed by iPhone 12 Pro/iPhone 12 (I’m going to assume they use the same panel) then iPhone 12 Mini.

It’s still honestly slightly disheartening that there isn’t an option in Accessibility or a workaround. These phones are by far the best Apple’s made and I’ve been enjoying it immensely but it’s impossible for me to use it without some sort of migraine/headache.

Here’s a video of iPhone 12 Pro Max that better demonstrates the flickering at all brightness levels:

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’ve tried all brightness levels. Between 22-50 percent. Above 50 percent. Below 22 percent. Nothing is helping. Extreme nausea and dizziness when looking the screen for a few minutes. It’s causing neck pain as well.

Any suggestions?

I’ve tried every possible combination of settings. In the future we could setup Shortcuts to control the brightness (I even disabled auto-brightness and setup shortcuts at 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%), or use Automation to keep the brightness at a certain level. Ultimately I found keeping auto-brightness on causes the least eye strain since it works well at determining lighting conditions. I would just avoid the lowest brightness levels as that’s where the PWM is most aggressive. Reduce White Point is also mostly useless.

If any of those specific settings worked for you then it would be possible to come up with a sort of solution, but since they don’t there’s really no option other than to either continue using it and hoping it goes away over time (which is unlikely to happen although it may improve) or selling/returning the phone. iPhone 12 Pro Max may be slightly better, just not enough of a difference to eliminate those symptoms.

 

[kevcube]

LG has new OLED panels (on their TV lineup), that are called "Self Lit", and they claim that those panels, are not using any backlight, so there is any Flickering or PWM used.

not sure if it's been covered in this thread, but this is marketing speak. No OLED panels have backlights. The point of OLED is that pixels are individually lit.

Modern OLED TVs have super fast flicker PWM that is not noticeable, but they still use PWM.

 

[MICHAELSD]

not sure if it's been covered in this thread, but this is marketing speak. No OLED panels have backlights. The point of OLED is that pixels are individually lit.

Modern OLED TVs have super fast flicker PWM that is not noticeable, but they still use PWM.

“There's a slight dip in brightness every 8 ms, which coincides with the 120Hz refresh rate and isn't noticeable.” Rtings gave it a 10/10 for flicker, indicating it’s not an issue. They also rated the frequency at 0Hz.

I tried taking a slo-mo video of a LG OLED store demo and there’s no visible flicker. It’s better than most LCD TV’s even. I’d have no hesitation about purchasing an OLED TV.

 

[kevcube]

“There's a slight dip in brightness every 8 ms, which coincides with the 120Hz refresh rate and isn't noticeable.” Rtings gave it a 10/10 for flicker, indicating it’s not an issue. They also rated the frequency at 0Hz.

I tried taking a slo-mo video of a LG OLED store demo and there’s no visible flicker. It’s better than most LCD TV’s even. I’d have no hesitation about purchasing an OLED TV.

yeah I've got a Sony XBR 55a8h and I love it. My roommates LCD Vizio TV makes my eyes feel like they're bleeding, but I could stare at my TV for hours. Not saying that they're bad BECAUSE of PWM, just saying that they do still have flicker/PWM.

 

[TechLord]

Just got my 12, no PWM issues for me.