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Other This is why I will not buy iPhone 12: OLED = PWM

DanTSX said:
OLED is cool. I like it. Big improvement. No headaches, and everything gives me a headache.

Many such cases!
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I am like you. I have so many problems with notebooks (i can't use any MacBook since 2015) and desktop PC but zero problems with OLED display.
My problem is not related to the PWM but is basically a software problem because i can't use W10 2004 on my desktop pc, notebook and also the nootbook of my father! But i can use these device with older version of W10 like 1903 / 1809!
 
I've been posting on this forum earlier about my experienced headaches and eye strains when I was using my 12 mini. I loved the new device but I started to dislike the screen because of the OLED PWM.

I've given it some time. It's a few weeks later now, and for some reason it appears that I've adjusted to it somehow. I don't seem to get headaches anymore. I don't know how this works but I've seen others here where the complaints disappeared after some time.

I do have to say that I still have auto-brightness disabled, and also still use reduce-whitepoint (through a control-center shortcut) in the evening. However... (!) the reduce-whitepoint solution might be a placebo: when I check the screen with slow-mo camera footage, it's actually introduces the same PWM flickering as soon as I activate reduce-whitepoint, to the same level of flickering as simply reducing brightness the normal way, without activating reduce-whitepoint.

I now also have a 'normal' (read: phablet) iPhone 12 test device for development purposes, so I've tested them side by side: the PWM effects appear to be exactly the same on the mini and normal 12.
 
Prince Akeem said:
I've been posting on this forum earlier about my experienced headaches and eye strains when I was using my 12 mini. I loved the new device but I started to dislike the screen because of the OLED PWM.

I've given it some time. It's a few weeks later now, and for some reason it appears that I've adjusted to it somehow. I don't seem to get headaches anymore. I don't know how this works but I've seen others here where the complaints disappeared after some time.

I do have to say that I still have auto-brightness disabled, and also still use reduce-whitepoint (through a control-center shortcut) in the evening. However... (!) the reduce-whitepoint solution might be a placebo: when I check the screen with slow-mo camera footage, it's actually introduces the same PWM flickering as soon as I activate reduce-whitepoint, to the same level of flickering as simply reducing brightness the normal way, without activating reduce-whitepoint.

I now also have a 'normal' (read: phablet) iPhone 12 test device for development purposes, so I've tested them side by side: the PWM effects appear to be exactly the same on the mini and normal 12.
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It's not going to get better..... I had the same issue with the X when it came out and back to apple it went.
 
Forget about the iPhone 12. You better save up for the apple glasses. Apparently they're coming out in 2021 or 2022. Can't wait!

They look revolutionary apple just don't know when to quit.
Source:
 
Voltarious said:
Forget about the iPhone 12. You better save up for the apple glasses. Apparently they're coming out in 2021 or 2022. Can't wait!

They look revolutionary apple just don't know when to quit.
Source:
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Along with Air tags and Air power.....🙄
 
I’ve been using an iPhone 12 Pro Max for the past 48 hours and I can confidently state that all of my assumptions going into it came to fruition:

While setting up iPhone 12 Pro Max I did notice the faintest hint of a migraine lingering in the back of my mind, which wasn’t surprising. I used it for about a half hour without any major signs of a headache. Then I put the phone down and went for a walk with my dog, and began noticing the throbbing pain behind my eyes that started the second I began using iPhone X.

The good news is that I think I was right in my assumption that it was worth trying a new iPhone this year since it does seem like Apple has done the most to address this issue since iPhone X was released. However, what they’ve done isn’t nearly enough.

I can use iPhone 12 Pro Max for longer periods than I could use iPhone X, and I would get a terrible migraine just from looking at a YouTube video on an iPhone 11 Pro Max. Now this may be entirely anecdotal since the second time I tried iPhone X I was able to use it for a day before the headaches began to come back. Even right now while typing this on iPhone 12 Pro Max I’m getting migraines and a tension headache, so maybe the migraines that started with iPhone X just needed time to resurface.

I was going to say that I do feel that it’s improved at ~ 25-75% brightness since I noticed immediate migraines at the extremes of the brightness scale (~ 10% and at near max brightness) but the iPhone 12 Pro Max is sitting at 39% brightness right now and I’m noticing migraines.

I must be particularly sensitive to PWM because I can visibly see the flicker at times, especially on white backgrounds. I find text more difficult to focus on than it is on a LCD display. It’s almost dizzying staring at the display while typing this. It just seems off.

I was almost prepared to come here and state that they’ve just about fixed it on this generation; however, the more time I’ve spent with the phone the more I’m realizing that isn’t the case. I can’t state with certainty that it’s better in any meaningful way than the PWM implementation on iPhone X was.

I would like to try iPhone 12/iPhone 12 Pro since it does seem like it uses a new 60Hz mode that’s similar to DC dimming at between 22-50% brightness, which I couldn’t confirm is also implemented on iPhone 12 Pro Max. Unfortunately I would expect the end result to be the same.

As nice of a phone as iPhone 12 Pro Max is, realistically there’s no way I’ll be able to continue using it without dealing with constant migraines 24/7. I’d also be worried about the potential long-term health consequences.

Bottom line: I can’t say the PWM implementation on the iPhone 12 series for me is any better than it was on iPhone X, as much as I was hoping this would be the generation with the most drastic improvement. I don’t think the most PWM-sensible users will be able to use an iPhone again until they get rid of the flicker entirely.
 
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I’m wondering how different the PWM implementation is on iPhone 12/12 Pro. It seems like it could potentially be better on these devices compared to the Max at 21%-50% brightness since iPhone 12 Pro enters a 60Hz mode that reduces the effects of PWM. I definitely still get migraines with iPhone 12 Pro Max at every brightness level.

I’m a fan of the design of all four iPhone models this year so I wouldn’t be opposed to trying iPhone 12/12 Pro. Considering it’s unlikely I’d be able to keep it I’d prefer to be mindful about returns, so it may be better to wait for iPhone 13 and hope they finally address this issue in a meaningful capacity.
 
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i am really angry because i bought the iphone 12 i love the design and everything but the screen gives me sickness in just 5 to 10 minutes of use...flicker sooo bad
seems like the iphone 11 is the last good lcd iphone and it's so bulky egh
 
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because most of the people will tell you it's your eyes , you have sensitive eyes it's not really just that
it's the nervous system , trust me it attacks the nervous system in your mind directly and i have little problems with frustration and all i think it's because of all those electronics i use daily , some people i know have glasses and sensetive eyes and pwm doesn't affect them
 
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Posting here what I posted on another thread as it is I believe more appropriate here.

I believe I have that issue as since I switched from my 8+ to my 12PM so my very first OLED experience. I have eyes strains, itchy and tears in my eyes (no headache). I thought it was due to something else as my eyes knowing I am 40+ and became presbyopic recently... But being aware of that PWM thing and having that strain approximately a bit after receiving my 12PM. I believe it is linked.
I wonder if going to a 12 Pro would help as it has a higher PWM frequency so less of a stroboscopic effect...not really sure this would help as the difference seems minimal. Any thoughts or experiences to share?
 
I posted in the other thread too, and I'm giving up 12 completely, I can wait for another year till 13 but no more...my 11 is getting weaker esp. battery and losing the edge comparing to other flagships...
 
My wife noticed that my eyes became more yellow after only one week of 12 usage..... as I said I f loved that phone but went back to 11.....
 
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MacGiver said:
Posting here what I posted on another thread as it is I believe more appropriate here.

I believe I have that issue as since I switched from my 8+ to my 12PM so my very first OLED experience. I have eyes strains, itchy and tears in my eyes (no headache). I thought it was due to something else as my eyes knowing I am 40+ and became presbyopic recently... But being aware of that PWM thing and having that strain approximately a bit after receiving my 12PM. I believe it is linked.
I wonder if going to a 12 Pro would help as it has a higher PWM frequency so less of a stroboscopic effect...not really sure this would help as the difference seems minimal. Any thoughts or experiences to share?
Click to expand...
The 12 Pro makes no difference. Migraines took a week to completely get over for me.
 
Took a slo mo video from my iPad of my new Pro Max and my Note 10 Plus that I will need to return to AT&T soon (Next upgrade). It’s apparently too big to attach here. But the bottom line is both strobed a bit and roughly the same. I don’t know if what I was seeing is simply an artifact of the video recording.
 
very disappointed this year have all pwm screen on iphone 12 line up, can't choose from any of them, only buying the new iphone SE instead
 
I’m still considering trying iPhone 12 Pro, mainly because it uses a “finely-tuned brightness controller designed to mitigate the effects of PWM as much as possible.” At least between 22%-50% brightness.

I am otherwise satisfied with my choice of the iPhone 12 Pro Max in Pacific Blue. I still get migraines from the display a majority of the time, even if they’re more mild in comparison to what I experienced with iPhone X and don’t persist for as long as they did with that display where I’d go to bed and my eyes would still be throbbing.

I’ll probably check out another store demo after most likely returning iPhone 12 Pro Max (which I don’t want to do since I love the size, design, and feel of the phone — I’m just concerned about long-term health effects). Apple has a roughly month-long turnaround on the Pro, so at that point we’re only seven months away from iPhone 13. I am fairly confident that the LTPO panel will be the extra step needed to make it usable.
 
kargurin said:
Do you know if the PWM occurs for you on all OLEDs or just the iPhone?
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LG’s OLED TV is fine since it doesn’t use PWM. All OLED smartphones use PWM, though some have a DC dimming mode or no flickering above a certain brightness level.
 
kargurin said:
Do you know if the PWM occurs for you on all OLEDs or just the iPhone?
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I can use my OLED Samsung TV no issues. But I'm sat further away and it likely has a much higher pulse rate than the iphone (I'm not going to look it up though, if it ain't broke....).

I'm going to find out if I can use one of the new Samsung S21 phones soon.
 
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