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Other This is why I will not buy iPhone 12: OLED = PWM

iamthedudeman said:
LG doesn't have new panels that don't use a back light as all OLED panels already have no back light. They never did use one. OLED panels are self illuminating as in they create their own light. All OLED panels are self lit. PWM has nothing to do with a backlight and everything to do with light modulation and brightness control.

Pulse-width modulation (PWM) in OLED displays | OLED-Info

Pulse-Width Modulation, or PWM, is one of the ways display makers can use to adjust the display's brightness. PWM is considered to be an easy (or cost-effective) way to control the brightness, but it has serious drawbacks, such as flicker that may cause eye strain and headaches. In this article...
www.oled-info.com www.oled-info.com
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This is true, but OLED is the very problem. They can't raise the frequency because of bad picture quality.
 
tonybarnaby said:
Temporal dithering is what you were looking for
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I found out also that iOS is aggressively using this! With an external, low refresh rate monitor, you can see the screen pixels "dancing". How they can pursue image adjustment methods, to enhance the quality of it, when they do not actually bother causing, eye, brain pain?
 
All I know is I seemed to suffer eye strain more with long sessions on my X than I do with my 12 Pro Max - it just seems better all the way around. I suspect some of you are affected more than others and you might have to try a phone out at a store which is hard since the store lighting will not give you a realistic feel for what it might be like at your home.
 
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aliensporebomb said:
All I know is I seemed to suffer eye strain more with long sessions on my X than I do with my 12 Pro Max - it just seems better all the way around. I suspect some of you are affected more than others and you might have to try a phone out at a store which is hard since the store lighting will not give you a realistic feel for what it might be like at your home.
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I am convinced that there is a difference this year so I have an iPhone 12 Pro Max being delivered soon. My friend told me he’s ”75% sure I’ll end up returning it” and he’s probably right, but I’m willing to give it a fair shot. If I get migraines from it there’s no way I’ll be able to continue using it. Honestly it’s most likely wishful thinking since the PWM is still quite pronounced, at the least I get to enjoy a new iPhone on my birthday and appreciate the design/build quality for a few days.
 
Thought I share my experiences here as it’s probably related to pwm. So had an XR had no issues. Then got the iPhone 12 mini and seemed like my right eye has some sort of strain on it like tiredness or heaviness after viewing my iPhone 12 mini display.

I decided to return the iPhone 12 mini and got my eyes checked. My right eye had some sort of small lumps in the eye that could have caused what I was experiencing. As I felt some sort of presence in my eye. I got given eye drops to use for 2 weeks. I did that and a follow up appointment confirmed what I was feeling before has cleared up in my eye and eye was feeling better. I then ended up getting the iPhone 12 Pro which is what I am using right now. I don’t get any flickers or migraines but I do feel my head getting a bit sore and then my right eye again feels heavier and tired. It’s weird sometimes I feel depending on where I am that I don’t notice any difference in my eyes and then sometimes it feels that my eye is getting some sort of strain.

My only conclusion is that it’s PWM. So this really sucks. I mean I love this iPhone but I have till sometime in first week of January to return it. I want a more modern iPhone than my xr and now I am thinking probably get the SE 2020 if this iPhone keeps bothering me.

I mean right now when I am typing this. I am trying not to focus too much on the screen with my right eye. But my right eye and left eyes are fine after I stop looking at my iPhone 12 Pro and if I am watching other screens it’s fine.
Must be pwm related :(
 
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MrMiyagi1 said:
Thought I share my experiences here as it’s probably related to pwm. So had an XR had no issues. Then got the iPhone 12 mini and seemed like my right eye has some sort of strain on it like tiredness or heaviness after viewing my iPhone 12 mini display.

I decided to return the iPhone 12 mini and got my eyes checked. My right eye had some sort of small lumps in the eye that could have caused what I was experiencing. As I felt some sort of presence in my eye. I got given eye drops to use for 2 weeks. I did that and a follow up appointment confirmed what I was feeling before has cleared up in my eye and eye was feeling better. I then ended up getting the iPhone 12 Pro which is what I am using right now. I don’t get any flickers or migraines but I do feel my head getting a bit sore and then my right eye again feels heavier and tired. It’s weird sometimes I feel depending on where I am that I don’t notice any difference in my eyes and then sometimes it feels that my eye is getting some sort of strain.

My only conclusion is that it’s PWM. So this really sucks. I mean I love this iPhone but I have till sometime in first week of January to return it. I want a more modern iPhone than my xr and now I am thinking probably get the SE 2020 if this iPhone keeps bothering me.

I mean right now when I am typing this. I am trying not to focus too much on the screen with my right eye. But my right eye and left eyes are fine after I stop looking at my iPhone 12 Pro and if I am watching other screens it’s fine.
Must be pwm related :(
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Sorry to hear your situation. PWM is being picked up by everyone's eyes/brain but most don't get any negative effects. Because you have had an issue with your right eye it is probably very sensitive at the moment so the PWM could be over stressing your already effected eye? Our eye muscles work hardest when you focus on things close to you and the constant flicking screen makes our pupils constantly dilate and contract more than usual I believe.

I'd say the apart from a newer processor, the SE 2020 would be a downgrade to the XR unless you specifically wanted a smaller phone? The 11 is probably to close to the XR to be worth it and all other iPhones are OLED now.
 
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jimmy_uk said:
Sorry to hear your situation. PWM is being picked up by everyone's eyes/brain but most don't get any negative effects. Because you have had an issue with your right eye it is probably very sensitive at the moment so the PWM could be over stressing your already effected eye? Our eye muscles work hardest when you focus on things close to you and the constant flicking screen makes our pupils constantly dilate and contract more than usual I believe.

I'd say the apart from a newer processor, the SE 2020 would be a downgrade to the XR unless you specifically wanted a smaller phone? The 11 is probably to close to the XR to be worth it and all other iPhones are OLED now.
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yes your right that’s what is probably happening. Has anyone here or do you know anything in settings I can do on my iPhone to help with this. I have decided to turn off True Tone display to see if that makes a difference. To be fair I don’t mind a bigger or a smaller iPhone. I do find the iPhone 12 Pro easier to hold than the XR. The 11 is basically similar to the 11 and the SE yes only better processor chip I guess. I will see. I am gonna try and see if I can experiment with the brightness levels and True Tone see if that makes any difference. Thanks though.
 
So this is very unscientific, but on the left is a 12 Pro Max, on the right is an S20+ (video shot on an iPad and slowed down). . Both are on auto brightness with no true tone/blue light filter or anything else set up. In slow motion, to me, it looks like there is more flickering in the iPhone than in the S20+.

 
ratdog07067 said:
So this is very unscientific, but on the left is a 12 Pro Max, on the right is an S20+ (video shot on an iPad and slowed down). . Both are on auto brightness with no true tone/blue light filter or anything else set up. In slow motion, to me, it looks like there is more flickering in the iPhone than in the S20+.

View attachment 1694644
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Can't really tell as the camera isn't really in focus and not enough footage 🤷‍♂️

But I'm interested if this is the case as I'm at the end of the road with iphone due to PWM and the unknown dithering issue with their new LCDs and I'd only really want to switch to Samsung if it was possible.

I could almost use the 12 Pro Max so I'm kind of hoping it's Apples specific spec and implementation with Samsung OLED that's the main culprit and maybe not a every OLED display.
 
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ratdog07067 said:
In slow motion, to me, it looks like there is more flickering in the iPhone than in the S20+.
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Sort of irrelevant as such flickering is a combination of refresh rate and shutter speed. Change of shutter speed will completely change results. Ever notice videos of TVs in the background, or car reviews with LED lights? Lots of flickering or in the case of TVs, lines across their picture or scrolling bizarrely.
 
yticolev said:
Sort of irrelevant as such flickering is a combination of refresh rate and shutter speed. Change of shutter speed will completely change results. Ever notice videos of TVs in the background, or car reviews with LED lights? Lots of flickering or in the case of TVs, lines across their picture or scrolling bizarrely.
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But it is possible to film PWM in effect, and if both displays are flickering, but one faster than the other this would be a fair show of the differences. Despite the quality of the this particular video I can almost make out the flickering on the iphone.
 
yticolev said:
No wonder so many complain of eye strain: looking hard for flicker!
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My comment was specific to the video. Perhaps your making a joke or simply dismissing people's genuine issues with PWM? If it's the latter I'd have to ask why you would be in this thread as there are hundreds of threads and videos online showing how OLED does flicker as its exactly how the implementation of this display technology controls its brightness.
 
lillo9546 said:
I just hate how Apple is not understanding How serious is the argument here.
They still use OLED displays that use PWM to modulate brigtness, and so they flicker!
30/40% OLED Smartphone Owner's are claiming infact, eyestrain, headhace, nausea, dizziness, motion sickness, that is mainly caused by the screen flicker.
a DC dimmimg option, like on the android side, will not fix the problem!! Its just a fresh candy excuse to keep the consumer to buy the product!

LG has new OLED panels (on their TV lineup), that are called "Self Lit", and they claim that those panels, are not using any backlight, so there is any Flickering or PWM used.I do really hope to see a change in display technology on future Iphones.

I really hope Apple can see and hear this message, because it is not only me, but 30% of your customers having problems like this!
Imagine using a strobo flashing light, and point it to your eyes for 5h, or more, a day. How would you feel? Confused? You are okay. It is normal. We just need the right technology, and this PWM thing, on a Display, it is garbage!

Please Apple do not use any PWM or Flickering Display in the future! (not only for Iphones, both for Mac, Ipad, Macbook).
Written on my SE 1st gen

If you want a pwm free display on next Apple devices, like and comment this post, to make it notice!
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this is very interesting. I just upgraded from iphone 5SE to the new iphone 12 mini. I don't even use the phone that much but it was one week ok brutal eye strain and dizziness. Sine I never had eye problems and don't use the phone that much I thought it was age... I just turned 40. I just changed back to the SE and the eye strain is gone. Unbelievable. It just takes 5 -10 minutes use of the iphone 12 mini to make me full brutally exhausted.
 
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Pain behind eyes, and a splitting headache from the 12. Tried the 12 PM and it was definitely better, but back to the 11 because I’m not willing to take any long term damage risks. Wait for mLED guys.
 
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epictempo said:
Pain behind eyes, and a splitting headache from the 12. Tried the 12 PM and it was definitely better, but back to the 11 because I’m not willing to take any long term damage risks. Wait for mLED guys.
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It's disapointing right? Especially when the 12PM feels close to being OK. Apple need to increase the PWM rate to well over 300hz I think for sensitive users, as close to 400hz - higher if they can do it.

I still can't bring myself to go for an 11 as I just won't be happy with it so sticking with 7 Plus until the next comes along. Will be trying one of the Samsung S21's in Jan/Feb, if I can tolerate Samsungs implementation of PWM on these new phones then I'm walking away from Apple.
 
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will the matte screen protector or blue light filter ease the eyes strain effect? i too have eyes strain just for spending 10 minutes on iphone 12 pro... no dizzy though... and in my country, no return policy 😢
 
cross93 said:
will the matte screen protector or blue light filter ease the eyes strain effect? i too have eyes strain just for spending 10 minutes on iphone 12 pro... no dizzy though... and in my country, no return policy 😢
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Neither of those options are likely to prevent eye strain caused by PWM as they wouldn’t do anything to mitigate the flickering effect.

Fortunately you may be able to disable auto-brightness (or teach it to avoid going under 22% brightness) and keep the brightness between 22-49%, which seems to have the lowest amplitude on iPhone 12 Pro which would be your best option for making the phone more usable.

www.notebookcheck.net

iPhone 12 Pro: Pulse Width Modulation for the OLED Display

Just like all OLED displays the iPhone 12 Pro’s will also be utilizing Pulse Width Modulation for brightness regulation. We took a closer look at it and would like to present you with our findings.
www.notebookcheck.net www.notebookcheck.net
 
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MICHAELSD said:
Neither of those options are likely to prevent eye strain caused by PWM as they wouldn’t do anything to mitigate the flickering effect.

Fortunately you may able to disable auto-brightness (or teach it to avoid going under 22% brightness) and keep the brightness between 22-49%, which seems to have the lowest amplitude on iPhone 12 Pro which would be your best option for making the phone more usable.

www.notebookcheck.net

iPhone 12 Pro: Pulse Width Modulation for the OLED Display

Just like all OLED displays the iPhone 12 Pro’s will also be utilizing Pulse Width Modulation for brightness regulation. We took a closer look at it and would like to present you with our findings.
www.notebookcheck.net www.notebookcheck.net
Click to expand...
ok... this su**... what if the brightness i set at 50% and enable reduce white point? will reduce white point increase the flickering rate?
 
cross93 said:
ok... this su**... what if the brightness i set at 50% and enable reduce white point? will reduce white point increase the flickering rate?
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Reduce White Point has been shown not to actually help with making the flickering more tolerable.

If you purchased from Apple and get in touch with them they may be able to help.
 
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Notebookcheck review on the 12 Mini, confirms 250Hz PWM rate below 100% brightness. No new iphone for me.
(German)
www.notebookcheck.com

Test Apple iPhone 12 mini - Kleines Smartphone mit innerer Größe

Das Apple iPhone 12 mini besitzt ein 5,4 Zoll großes OLED-Display und wird vom aktuellen Apple A14 Bionic angetrieben, welcher auf 4 GB Arbeits- und wahlweise 64, 128 oder 256 GB internen Speicher setzt. Der kleine Akku hält im Test doch recht lange durch.
www.notebookcheck.com www.notebookcheck.com
 
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OLED is cool. I like it. Big improvement. No headaches, and everything gives me a headache.

Many such cases!
 
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