Other This is why I will not buy iPhone 12: OLED = PWM

[UKapple73]

I’ve found it’s much better with auto brightness off. Much less flickering at 40% brightness and about same battery life

 

[tonybarnaby]

I want to change my 12 Pro Max but I don't know if Iphone 11 (LCD) or SE 2020 would have this effect on my eyes too. Some people are sensitive to "FRC" and I think newer LCD Iphones after Iphone 8 do this.

Temporal dithering : rapid alternation between a very slightly lighter and very slightly darker variant of a given shade. This is done where the shade itself can’t be displayed, for example if the monitor does not have the necessary bit-depth to display that shade. The GPU may also add its own dithering stage, so even if a monitor is free from dithering (e.g. ‘true 8-bit’ rather than 6-bit + 2-bit FRC) there may be some dithering visible.

It is therefore very difficult to achieve a viewing experience entirely free from dithering, but it’s certainly minimised if the monitor itself doesn’t use dithering. This can be thought of as a form of flickering, although it is very different to the flickering you get from PWM whereby there are extreme brightness changes of the entire backlight. This is a minute luminance change that affects certain shades, so most users will not find this problematic even if they are sensitive to PWM usage. Some users still take issue with dithering usage and prefer that it is taken out of the equation, or at least minimised.

The Xr/11 lcd give me the same headaches as oled. Gotta be that dithering

 

[lcfx_lain]

The Xr/11 lcd give me the same headaches as oled. Gotta be that dithering

So ... No luck for me after Iphone 8? I don't have the money or the time to test every LCD Iphone (Every Iphone in my country is being sold unofficially)

 

[ColdShadow]

Always had OLED screens,iPhones,before that numerous Samsung Notes and also a Samsung tablet never had any issues with eye strain or flicking.
OLED is the best.

 

[now i see it]

The LCD iPhone 8 (small iPhone) bugs my eyes after using it for a while, but the LCD iPhone 6 Plus, I can stare at all day long (for 5 years) and it doesn't bother my eyes at all.
Eyestrain from staring at iPhone screens isn't necessarily caused by PWM.

 

[tonybarnaby]

So ... No luck for me after Iphone 8? I don't have the money or the time to test every LCD Iphone (Every Iphone in my country is being sold unofficially)

It’s very rare for someone who is bothered by pwm to also be bothered by an iPhone 1/xr. People like me are a special kind of unlucky. I’d give it a chance in your case

 

[lcfx_lain]

The LCD iPhone 8 (small iPhone) bugs my eyes after using it for a while, but the LCD iPhone 6 Plus, I can stare at all day long (for 5 years) and it doesn't bother my eyes at all.
Eyestrain from staring at iPhone screens isn't necessarily caused by PWM.

We need something like an Iphone SE Plus, no face id, only Touch ID, I dont care where (Front or power button), and a big and beautifull LCD screen. Dual camera in the back .... Well, maybe in march/april?

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

So ... No luck for me after Iphone 8? I don't have the money or the time to test every LCD Iphone (Every Iphone in my country is being sold unofficially)

Have you personally tried the 11? I have awful symptoms with the OLED screens but the 11 has been symptom free for me. No different (for me) than any of the LCD phones before it.

 

[lcfx_lain]

Have you personally tried the 11? I have awful symptoms with the OLED screens but the 11 has been symptom free for me. No different (for me) than any of the LCD phones before it.

Nice to know, a friend of mine has an Iphone 11, maybe she can let me use it a bit to check the screen.

 

[jimmy_uk]

The LCD iPhone 8 (small iPhone) bugs my eyes after using it for a while, but the LCD iPhone 6 Plus, I can stare at all day long (for 5 years) and it doesn't bother my eyes at all.
Eyestrain from staring at iPhone screens isn't necessarily caused by PWM.

Sure, starring at a small low resolution display for a long time will strain your eyes. But the effects felt from starring at an OLED display with PWM, like the newer iPhones, are very specific and usually felt very quickly.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Sure, starring at a small low resolution display for a long time will strain your eyes. But the effects felt from starring at an OLED display with PWM, like the newer iPhones, are very specific and usually felt very quickly.

I wouldn’t mind if pwm took 3 hours to set in. I could work around that. The fact I get a headache within 15 minutes max means it’s a no go

 

[MICHAELSD]

This is a slightly odd observation, but I noticed Khloe Kardashian still uses an iPhone 8 Plus even when the rest of her family have moved on to newer iPhones.

Then I saw the commercial for migraine medication Nurtec, which airs quite frequently, about her experiencing life-long migraines and wondered if the OLED iPhones exacerbate her existing migraine condition.

It’s also entirely possible that she simply prefers the older design with the home button. I still can’t help but wonder if there are people out there, even celebrities, that experience issues with the PWM on newer phones and remain quiet about it. It’s intriguing to think that maybe she tried using an iPhone X or newer, then researched threads like this after experiencing migraines.

 

[Olaf.cc]

I have a 11 and a 12 mini. Returning the 12 mini because I have issues with the screen, especially while scrolling. Feels headache/nauseous. I have no idea where it’s coming from, I’m uninformed, I just stumbled here via Google and just wanted to voice my experience.

 

[now i see it]

I still can’t help but wonder if there are people out there, even celebrities, that experience issues with the PWM on newer phones and remain quiet about it

At least we get the satisfaction knowing that a fair percentage of Apple employees (including executives) are getting their eyeballs hammered with eyestrain staring at their new iPhones too. They're not any more immune to the visual insult than the rest of us.

Like everyone else on this thread, I'm patiently waiting for the OLED era to end. Time to ditch this crappy tech.

 

[MICHAELSD]

At least we get the satisfaction knowing that a fair percentage of Apple employees (including executives) are getting their eyeballs hammered with eyestrain staring at their new iPhones too. They're not any more immune to the visual insult than the rest of us.

Like everyone else on this thread, I'm patiently waiting for the OLED era to end. Time to ditch this crappy tech.

I’ve also thought before that if Tim Cook or any of the other executives experienced the same symptoms we do then this issue would be fixed within a generation.

 

[Corncab44]

What are the PMW rates for all three 12s? The mini was 250 I believe, then the 12 was lower? What about the 12 pro. I’m coming from a Galaxy S8, which has 250 hz PMW, and strikes me as nicer to read on. But that rate seems in the same ballpark, so not sure.

 

[Michael Scrip]

At least we get the satisfaction knowing that a fair percentage of Apple employees (including executives) are getting their eyeballs hammered with eyestrain staring at their new iPhones too. They're not any more immune to the visual insult than the rest of us.

Like everyone else on this thread, I'm patiently waiting for the OLED era to end. Time to ditch this crappy tech.

I’ve also thought before that if Tim Cook or any of the other executives experienced the same symptoms we do then this issue would be fixed within a generation.

I dunno... Apple employees, including Tim Cook, used Macbooks with those terrible keyboards for about 4 years...

They must have a high tolerance for pain!

?

 

[ghanwani]

Like everyone else on this thread, I'm patiently waiting for the OLED era to end. Time to ditch this crappy tech.

What comes after OLED?

 

[StardustRedding]

What comes after OLED?

Microled which hopefully is flicker free

 

[StardustRedding]

At least we get the satisfaction knowing that a fair percentage of Apple employees (including executives) are getting their eyeballs hammered with eyestrain staring at their new iPhones too. They're not any more immune to the visual insult than the rest of us.

Like everyone else on this thread, I'm patiently waiting for the OLED era to end. Time to ditch this crappy tech.

I can’t believe they didn’t have beta testers for the X series. Obviously, this issue should be caught early so they wouldn’t be still dealing with this problem. This iPhone 11 will be my last IPhone if they don’t fix this issue

 

[ghanwani]

Microled which hopefully is flicker free

I read this article and it's not clear to me it won't need PWM or something equivalent. It appears to be similar to OLED but uses a different material.

 

[now i see it]

Yeah every tech conversation about OLED trumpets their promotional data sheet "lies".
Never a mention of off axis color shift, green blacks on dimmed screens, (iPhone) gray instead of black on black screens (iPhone) and flickering causing eyestrain (iPhone and others).
Seems that nobody has the courage to call out the tech for what it really is. Lame

 

[Corncab44]

Finally found some data for the 12 pro. According to Notebookcheck, it has the highest frequency of all three models. Personally, it matches roughly what I’m coming from with an S8. I had noticed slight queasiness using my 12 pro, but open to that being my imagination. I’m going to borrow an 11 to compare, though.

Apple iPhone 12 Pro Review - Powerful Smartphone with Retro Styling

Our review of Apple's iPhone 12 Pro with 6.1-inch large OLED display, Apple A14 Bionic, 6 GB of RAM, 64 to 512 GB of storage, a triple-camera, and good battery life.

www.notebookcheck.net

And a full list of pwm frequencies here:


Apple iPhone 111792x828IPS
0
Apple iPhone 11 Pro2436x1125OLED
290.7
Apple iPhone 11 Pro Max2688x1242OLED
245.1
Apple iPhone 122532x1170OLED
226.2
Apple iPhone 12 mini2340x1080OLED
250
Apple iPhone 12 Pro2532x1170OLED
277.8
Apple iPhone 12 Pro Max2778x1284OLED
238

https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html?&type=model&max_results=50000&or=0&showBars=1&bench_350_944=1&model=1&screen_resolution=1&screen_panel_type=1

According to Notebookcheck:

The display backlight flickers at 277.8 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) . The frequency of 277.8 Hz is relatively high, so most users sensitive to PWM should not notice any flickering. However, there are reports that some users are still sensitive to PWM at 500 Hz and above, so be aware. In comparison: 51 % of all tested devices do not use PWM to dim the display. If PWM was detected, an average of 9676 (minimum: 5 - maximum: 142900) Hz was measured.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I can’t believe they didn’t have beta testers for the X series. Obviously, this issue should be caught early so they wouldn’t be still dealing with this problem. This iPhone 11 will be my last IPhone if they don’t fix this issue

If I was a beta tester for iPhone X I would have thought there was something seriously wrong with FaceID.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Finally found some data for the 12 pro. According to Notebookcheck, it has the highest frequency of all three models. Personally, it matches roughly what I’m coming from with an S8. I had noticed slight queasiness using my 12 pro, but open to that being my imagination. I’m going to borrow an 11 to compare, though.

Apple iPhone 12 Pro Review - Powerful Smartphone with Retro Styling

Our review of Apple's iPhone 12 Pro with 6.1-inch large OLED display, Apple A14 Bionic, 6 GB of RAM, 64 to 512 GB of storage, a triple-camera, and good battery life.

www.notebookcheck.net

And a full list of pwm frequencies here:


Apple iPhone 111792x828IPS
0
Apple iPhone 11 Pro2436x1125OLED
290.7
Apple iPhone 11 Pro Max2688x1242OLED
245.1
Apple iPhone 122532x1170OLED
226.2
Apple iPhone 12 mini2340x1080OLED
250
Apple iPhone 12 Pro2532x1170OLED
277.8
Apple iPhone 12 Pro Max2778x1284OLED
238

https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html?&type=model&max_results=50000&or=0&showBars=1&bench_350_944=1&model=1&screen_resolution=1&screen_panel_type=1

According to Notebookcheck:

The display backlight flickers at 277.8 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) . The frequency of 277.8 Hz is relatively high, so most users sensitive to PWM should not notice any flickering. However, there are reports that some users are still sensitive to PWM at 500 Hz and above, so be aware. In comparison: 51 % of all tested devices do not use PWM to dim the display. If PWM was detected, an average of 9676 (minimum: 5 - maximum: 142900) Hz was measured.

The 11 Pro had an even higher 290.7 Hz rate (apparently) and that still did my eyes in so the 12 Pro at 277.8 Hz is worse. I haven't tried the 12 Pro but know there is no point.

I feel unless Apple get into the high 300's or even higher this will remain an issue for PWM sensitive people.