Other This is why I will not buy iPhone 12: OLED = PWM

[noobinator]

Just a random data point that may mean nothing or I'm not sure. I never had issues with PWM until I got my launch day 12 Pro. Kept it about 3 months but really suffered the whole time from headaches, nausea, and dizziness. Eventually sold it and got a Pixel 5. No issues. Got an S21 Ultra. Had issues a few days but was fine for a month after that.

Missed my iPhone so I went back to another 12 Pro as I kept reading the 12 and Pro Max had worse PWM. I was not optimistic anything would change but I gave it a try anyway. I've had the phone back for a week now. I had a headache the day I started using it but have been perfectly fine since then. Who knows if it my issues the first time were unrelated, if the 2nd phone is different somehow, if something with me changed? Who knows, but so far so good.

 

[techno-Zen]

I just hate how Apple is not understanding How serious is the argument here.
They still use OLED displays that use PWM to modulate brigtness, and so they flicker!
30/40% OLED Smartphone Owner's are claiming infact, eyestrain, headhace, nausea, dizziness, motion sickness, that is mainly caused by the screen flicker.
a DC dimmimg option, like on the android side, will not fix the problem!! Its just a fresh candy excuse to keep the consumer to buy the product!

LG has new OLED panels (on their TV lineup), that are called "Self Lit", and they claim that those panels, are not using any backlight, so there is any Flickering or PWM used.I do really hope to see a change in display technology on future Iphones.

I really hope Apple can see and hear this message, because it is not only me, but 30% of your customers having problems like this!
Imagine using a strobo flashing light, and point it to your eyes for 5h, or more, a day. How would you feel? Confused? You are okay. It is normal. We just need the right technology, and this PWM thing, on a Display, it is garbage!

Please Apple do not use any PWM or Flickering Display in the future! (not only for Iphones, both for Mac, Ipad, Macbook).
Written on my SE 1st gen

If you want a pwm free display on next Apple devices, like and comment this post, to make it notice!

I had it for iphone x and nothing since.

 

[Corncab44]

The 11 Pro had an even higher 290.7 Hz rate (apparently) and that still did my eyes in so the 12 Pro at 277.8 Hz is worse. I haven't tried the 12 Pro but know there is no point.

I feel unless Apple get into the high 300's or even higher this will remain an issue for PWM sensitive people.

Have you tried lowering the White Point and raising the brightness to max? That seemed to help me, though I’m not entirely convinced about what’s going on.

I agree that the frequencies are still pretty low, but again what I’ve read in some places suggests Apple’s implementation isn’t as bad as Samsung’s on their phones. I’m coming from an S8 which has a 250 hz frequency and I used for years without much issue. Mysterious.

 

[Corncab44]

Fwiw I returned my iPhone 12 Pro and bought an apple refurbished iPhone 11 for about $500 cheaper and skipped AppleCare. Literally the only thing I wish I had was a Qualcomm modem for 4G and better reception. The screen is easier on my eyes and functionally for day to day use the phones aren’t very different. I’ll trade this in for whatever the next larger lcd iPhone with a Qualcomm modem is. Whether that’s from the 13 lineup or an SE model.

I paid $639 for a 256gb model. Could have lived with a 128gb but still cheap.

 

[MICHAELSD]

They have an animated Apple logo screensaver on the iPhone 12 demo phones, and the only iPhone I could observe PWM on was the iPhone 12 Mini. The iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro Max seemed fine. That being said I doubt Apple would adjust PWM through a software update mid-cycle, but some of the demo phones do seem to be slightly different which other users have reported. I’m holding out a glimmer of hope for iPhone 13 at this point, but I’m ready to be disappointed.

 

[lcfx_lain]

They have an animated Apple logo screensaver on the iPhone 12 demo phones, and the only iPhone I could observe PWM on was the iPhone 12 Mini. The iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro Max seemed fine. That being said I doubt Apple would adjust PWM through a software update mid-cycle, but some of the demo phones do seem to be slightly different which other users have reported.

In my case It was really easy to see (Iphone 12 Pro Max). Slowmo video using an Iphone 8 (Google search results on Iphone12PM Screen)

 

[MICHAELSD]

In my case It was really easy to see (Iphone 12 Pro Max). Slowmo video using an Iphone 8 (Google search results on Iphone12PM Screen)

Yup, it was easy to capture on my 8+ with slo-mo video when I had the iPhone 12 Pro Max.

 

[Mr.Simple]

I have recently found this comparison from oneplus 9 pro with the 12 PM on YT:

It seems that the 12 PM on this brightness level don't really flicker. In the comments they say it could be better since the launch with updates. Could this really be true that apple has adjust pwm frequency over updates? I doubt this but i would be so good when that would be true and i could try the 12 PM.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I have recently found this comparison from oneplus 9 pro with the 12 PM on YT:

It seems that the 12 PM on this brightness level don't really flicker. In the comments they say it could be better since the launch with updates. Could this really be true that apple has adjust pwm frequency over updates? I doubt this but i would be so good when that would be true and i could try the 12 PM.

I’ve also seen that video along with others and wondered this myself. I’ve heard of potential software updates or even variance between units, but both seem unlikely.

Anecdotally I stared at my buddy’s 12 PM recently for a minute and experienced no issues whereas with any of the other OLED iPhones I would get a migraine even if he showed me a YouTube video.

Unless we had more concrete evidence I don’t think it’s worth reaching out to somebody that could formally test it.

 

[now i see it]

Taking a slow motion video of an OLED sctesn only shows the camera synchronizing with the flickering at certain harmonics. One phone that shows zero walking bands in a video could easily be the worst screen to stare at compared to another that shows lots of it. Slo no videos of OLED screens are worthless as far as determining whether or not they'll give a person headaches

 

[DJTaurus]

I read that from all iPhone 12 line, only 12 pro has the highest frequency (over 250) while the other 3 (mini, pro max and 12) are below 250hz.... as a result it has the least flickering and some users reported no dizziness and nausea. Can anyone confirm this ?

 

[davegoody]

"LG has new OLED panels (on their TV lineup), that are called "Self Lit", and they claim that those panels, are not using any backlight, so there is any Flickering or PWM used.I do really hope to see a change in display technology on future Iphones."

Er..... OLED does not use a backlight of any description. ALL OLED, are Self Lit, each pixel emits it's own light, there is no backlight behind that has to be masked, as per an LCD screen. Flicker is another matter, but that's a fundamental part of OLED.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I read that from all iPhone 12 line, only 12 pro has the highest frequency (over 250) while the other 3 (mini, pro max and 12) are below 250hz.... as a result it has the least flickering and some users reported no dizziness and nausea. Can anyone confirm this ?

"When reviewed the iPhone 12 Pro showed differing amplitude response levels depending on display brightness. At minimum brightness, we measured a frequency of between 117.9 and 245.1 Hz. Between minimum brightness and 21 % the frequency remained fairly consistent at 223 to 250 Hz. Between 22 % and 50 % display brightness we were able to attest a frequency of 60 Hz, and above that it started to fluctuate wildly between 80 and 277.8 Hz."

https://www.notebookcheck.net/iPhon...Modulation-for-the-OLED-Display.505060.0.html

 

[ignatius345]

If you want to see any flickering very very clearly, take your phone into a dark room and wave it around a bit. If you want to really throw it into relief, set it in dark mode and put something on the screen that shows just a little localized white (I used a short email with a little white text and a lot of black background). You won't be able to NOT see the flickering, I promise.

 

[MrMichaelJames]

This whole thing reminds me of the debates of DLP tv's. Some people swore they could see the rainbow effect just using the tv normally. Other folks said the only way they could see it was by shaking their head really fast or peering out of the corner of their eye straining really hard. Just makes me wonder why people are purposely trying to see something by not using the device normally just so they can say "yup...its there."

 

[esaelias187]

Have you tried lowering the White Point and raising the brightness to max? That seemed to help me, though I’m not entirely convinced about what’s going on.

I agree that the frequencies are still pretty low, but again what I’ve read in some places suggests Apple’s implementation isn’t as bad as Samsung’s on their phones. I’m coming from an S8 which has a 250 hz frequency and I used for years without much issue. Mysterious.

See iv done this but im sure the screen still flickers but some people say that at full brightness it does not flicker?

 

[esaelias187]

Maybe it could he the lg oled panels dont flicker as much?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Is there any truth to panel variance or software updates? I keep an eye on all of the PWM-related developments.

 

[kargurin]

This whole thing reminds me of the debates of DLP tv's. Some people swore they could see the rainbow effect just using the tv normally. Other folks said the only way they could see it was by shaking their head really fast or peering out of the corner of their eye straining really hard. Just makes me wonder why people are purposely trying to see something by not using the device normally just so they can say "yup...its there."

I remember the DLPs. Spinning color wheel. Yes, those things gave me headaches. Fortunately it happened with store demos so I never bothered to seriously consider them.

 

[DJTaurus]

Anything changed with iOS 14,5?

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Anything changed with iOS 14,5?

Nope. I haven't been using my 12pm for the past few weeks because of the headaches, but I used it all day yesterday just to see if anything had improved. Had a headache within hours.

Man this sucks. I wish I'd known I was sensitive to this before I dropped over a grand on this phone. I've been getting daily headaches and full blown migraines weekly since I bought it and I was about to make an appointment with a neurologist. I'd never had this many headaches in my entire life, I was scared I had a tumor. I didn't put two and two together until I used an SE for a week and the headaches completely disappeared. Now I'm back on an 8+ while the 12pm just sits on my desk silently mocking me ?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Part of me wants to order an iPhone 12 Pro to test prior to 5pm today (so it’s delivered next day) before committing to keeping iPhone SE. It just feels wasteful especially since they ship two boxes for a trade-in.

I don’t expect the end result to be any different than the Max, but I don’t really feel there’s an iPhone for me in the current lineup and I’m not going to switch to Android.

I do like iPhone SE even if it feels a little small compared to the 8+ I’ve been using. I suppose I have commitment issues .

 

[jimmy_uk]

Part of me wants to order an iPhone 12 Pro to test prior to 5pm today (so it’s delivered next day) before committing to keeping iPhone SE. It just feels wasteful especially since they ship two boxes for a trade-in.

I don’t expect the end result to be any different than the Max, but I don’t really feel there’s an iPhone for me in the current lineup and I’m not going to switch to Android.

I do like iPhone SE even if it feels a little small compared to the 8+ I’ve been using. I suppose I have commitment issues .

It's that scratch you may need to itch.

Worst case it doesn't work out, then you'll know and will have exhausted your options. You can then return to the SE 2020 knowing it's the only option.

Best case it works out and your on flagship hardware. Naturally I'm biased because if it works for you then I'll be getting onboard ?.

That said I'm probably booking in for a new battery for my 7 plus at the end of the week then searching for a brand new 8 Plus.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

I'm really hoping for another 2 years of support for the 8 Plus, it's still plenty fast and I'm fine using it and the SE for a while. The 6s is just now reaching EOL after iOS 14 so I'm reasonably confident ? Hopefully the SE plus comes out with LCD this year or next.

 

[Marshall73]

I wonder if apple will move the iPhone over to mini LED like the iPad Pro 12.9?