Tim Cook discussion thread [merged]

[Radon87000]

That is to say that for example iPad Pro doesn't have anything over the non-Pro iPads?

The iPad Pro 9.7 is basically the Air 2 with a better display and an Apple Pencil. What's pro about it that my Air 2 can't handle ? First of all not all professional work needs a stylus so if you remove that what do you get? Nothing.Just an Air 2 with a keyboard.I can connect a Bluetooth keyboard to the Air 2 and it would b just as "pro" as the Air 3
This is the reason why even in the iPad category,the Pro tablets are dead last in sales numbers.People aren't buying them as they don't do anything unique the "consumer" ones can't already do.If you are after a professional tablet, a real example would be the Surface Pro 4 which can actually handle legacy office applications and even software from 2000.

 

[C DM]

The iPad Pro 9.7 is basically the Air 2 with a better display and an Apple Pencil. What's pro about it that my Air 2 can't handle ? First of all not all professional work needs a stylus so if you remove that what do you get? Nothing.Just an Air 2 with a keyboard.I can connect a Bluetooth keyboard to the Air 2 and it would b just as "pro" as the Air 3
This is the reason why even in the iPad category,the Pro tablets are dead last in sales numbers.People aren't buying them as they don't do anything unique the "consumer" ones can't already do.If you are after a professional tablet, a real example would be the Surface Pro 4 which can actually handle legacy office applications and even software from 2000.

So Pro models have things that are better than the non-Pro models.

 

[Radon87000]

Pro has become a marketing term that has no meaning other than increased price. Classic Tim Cook
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If Apple had sprung into existence yesterday with its current lineup, I could see how some people could be happy. How can someone who has owned Apple computers for ~ 10 years be happy looking at where they have been and where they are now?

Watch as they label the iPhone with the OLED display "Pro" next year and charge insane amounts of money for it.I am guessing the LCD ones will be iPhone 7s and 7s plus because they only get the glass back with the same design and nothing more and are not"pro" enough

 

[Radon87000]

So Pro models have things that are better than the non-Pro models.

Apart from graphic designing ,nothing and it's still somewhat possible to do graphic designs on an Air 2 with an aftermarket stylus so in hindsight nothing really

 

[C DM]

Apart from graphic designing ,nothing and it's still somewhat possible to do graphic designs on an Air 2 with an aftermarket stylus so in hindsight nothing really

So a better display as you mentioned. No other components that are better?

 

[Radon87000]

I look at that picture of SJ with the ipad, and think with my SP4, I can connect to any computer in my house, the network at work, client computers and watch netflix, etc. With my ipad I can watch netflix. Maybe that is why, what seemed a great idea in 2010 is not really a great idea in 2016. Sure for some, they love their ipads (and ipad pros).

The ipad is in a bad situation, seemingly a great idea by SJ, in today's world not so much (imo). TC inherited it. What's a CEO to do?

TC turned apple into a behemoth over the last few years and apple has to go through a reinvention, keeping it's core values of what makes apple, apple.

I personally like their products and where they are going, we'll see how they do in the future.

Steve Jobs intended the iPad to slot in between the iPhone and Mac and had he been alive it would have been developed in that fashion.It wasn't intended to replace the Mac.Surface is intended to be a laptop replacement . 2 completely different philosophies .Tim Cook seems to lack this focus though trying to persuade consumers the iPad Pro can actually replace a Mac.He actually said this crap
Satya scored over Cook last week when he brought that toaster example out by comparing the iPad Pro with the surface

 

[Radon87000]

So a better display as you mentioned. No other components that are better?

Nope.Nothing unique which can be useful in "pro" applications and which the prior consumer versions already didn't get every succeeding year

 

[C DM]

Nope.Nothing unique which can be useful in "pro" applications and which the prior consumer versions already didn't get every succeeding year

So no additional/newer RAM or newer/better CPU/GPU, or any other updated components?

 

[Radon87000]

So no additional/newer RAM or newer/better CPU/GPU, or any other updated components?

The consumer versions of the iPad got this update every year.This doesn't make it "Pro" or should we start calling the iPhone 7 and iPad Air 2 "Pro" for being faster than their predecessors

PS-The 9.7 iPad doesn't have additional ram over the Air 2

 

[C DM]

The consumer versions of the iPad got this update every year.This doesn't make it "Pro" or should we start calling the iPhone 7 and iPad Air 2 "Pro" for being faster than their predecessors

PS-The 9.7 iPad doesn't have additional ram over the Air 2

So again basically there are newer/better things than just the "Pro" label.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

So again basically there are newer/better things than just the "Pro" label.

The itterative differences between a 2011 iMac and a 2012 iMac does not in any way make the latter "Pro" and the former not. You seem to try and argue about something no one agrees with you about.

 

[C DM]

The itterative differences between a 2011 iMac and a 2012 iMac does not in any way make the latter "Pro" and the former not. You seem to try and argue about something no one agrees with you about.

I wasn't talking about what makes something "Pro" or not, simply addressing the statement that the Pro devices apparently have nothing more to them than the Pro label (whatever the reason that label might be attached to them). Using your example that's like saying that the 2012 iMac has nothing more to it compared to the 2011 than simply a 2 instead of 1 in the year.

 

[Galacticos]

The itterative differences between a 2011 iMac and a 2012 iMac does not in any way make the latter "Pro" and the former not. You seem to try and argue about something no one agrees with you about.

If it's not understood by now, only a willingness to not understand the point we are all trying to make could stand in the way

 

[Radon87000]

So again basically there are newer/better things than just the "Pro" label.

No its just the Pro label.Better display,powerful processors,more RAM are things which "non pro" iPads have recieved for years.In fact Ars Technica even said that the display improvment is nowhere near as noteworthy as from the Air 1 to the Air 2 where they switched to laminated displays.

Quite literally there is no reason why this tablet is named "Pro" .What does it have to diffrentiate it from an Air 2?A better display,a faster processor and thats it.iPad Air 2 had a better display,a faster processor and even more RAM and even design changes like the removal of silent switch and moar thinner compared to the Air 1.

I can jailbreak an iPad "Pro" and sync with iTunes on a Surface,something I cant do with 2 iPad Pros.This should tell you the validity of Cook's "Pro" claims

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

I wasn't talking about what makes something "Pro" or not, simply addressing the statement that the Pro devices apparently have nothing more to them than the Pro label (whatever the reason that label might be attached to them). Using your example that's like saying that the 2012 iMac has nothing more to it compared to the 2011 than simply a 2 instead of 1 in the year.

If you are trying to be smart pretending that you are the only one that knows that hardware is updated between different models, then I think you should just leave the thread now.

 

[C DM]

If you are trying to be smart pretending that you are the only one that knows that hardware is updated between different models, then I think you should just leave the thread now.

A statement was made that Pro has nothing more to it than just the Pro label, clearly that's not the case. Nothing smart about it or anything of the sort. If the statement was to say something else about it all, perhaps the statement should have actually said that then, given that it's not what it says as it is.
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No its just the Pro label.Better display,powerful processors,more RAM are things which "non pro" iPads have recieved for years.In fact Ars Technica even said that the display improvment is nowhere near as noteworthy as from the Air 1 to the Air 2 where they switched to laminated displays.

Quite literally there is no reason why this tablet is named "Pro" .What does it have to diffrentiate it from an Air 2?A better display,a faster processor and thats it.iPad Air 2 had a better display,a faster processor and even more RAM and even design changes like the removal of silent switch and moar thinner compared to the Air 1.

I can jailbreak an iPad "Pro" and sync with iTunes on a Surface,something I cant do with 2 iPad Pros.This should tell you the validity of Cook's "Pro" claims

That's all great and fine, but, again, that wasn't the part that I originally commented on.

 

[Radon87000]

A statement was made that Pro has nothing more to it than just the Pro label, clearly that's not the case. Nothing smart about it or anything of the sort. If the statement was to say something else about it all, perhaps the statement should have actually said that then, given that it's not what it says as it is.
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That's all great and fine, but, again, that wasn't the part that I originally commented on.

You are grasping at technicalities.You very well knew when I said that iPad Pro just has a pro lablel that the only new thing which Apple did was label it pro.The changes they made are par the course for iPad upgrades for years and none of them were pro.

 

[I7guy]

Steve Jobs intended the iPad to slot in between the iPhone and Mac and had he been alive it would have been developed in that fashion.It wasn't intended to replace the Mac.Surface is intended to be a laptop replacement . 2 completely different philosophies .Tim Cook seems to lack this focus though trying to persuade consumers the iPad Pro can actually replace a Mac.He actually said this crap
Satya scored over Cook last week when he brought that toaster example out by comparing the iPad Pro with the surface

That's not the point, sj missed the mark and made a misstep by missing convergence is the point and left Cook in a difficult position. (Sj would have had the same issue had he been alive) While to you these two devices have different philosophies I see them as more overlap than different. Neither does exactly what the other does, but there is overlap and different use cases at the same time.
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You are grasping at technicalities.You very well knew when I said that iPad Pro just has a pro lablel that the only new thing which Apple did was label it pro.The changes they made are par the course for iPad upgrades for years and none of them were pro.

Better display and cpu etc is justification enough for a pro label. You're splitting hairs here.

 

[C DM]

You are grasping at technicalities.You very well knew when I said that iPad Pro just has a pro lablel that the only new thing which Apple did was label it pro.The changes they made are par the course for iPad upgrades for years and none of them were pro.

Again, you are talking about a different aspect of it all.

 

[dotnet]

The entire "Pro" column has been wiped out because "Pro" computers can't be made THIN enough or have "enough battery life". Two things Pro users really don't care about.

Nonsense. I'm a pro user and I do very much care about size, weight and battery life.

 

[Galacticos]

Better display and cpu etc is justification enough for a pro label. You're splitting hairs here.

You two are mistaking absolute change for marginal change.

Yes the iPad 'pro' is different from the iPad Air 2 (this is so obvious I can hardly believe I'm typing it)

But the changes from the iPad Air 2 to the iPad 'pro' aren't any different from the changes we usually see.

Put another way, the changes haven't changed, and therefore 'pro' is just a name with no difference to justify it

 

[I7guy]

You two are mistaking absolute change for marginal change.

Yes the iPad 'pro' is different from the iPad Air 2 (this is so obvious I can hardly believe I'm typing it)

But the changes from the iPad Air 2 to the iPad 'pro' aren't any different from the changes we usually see.

Put another way, the changes haven't changed, and therefore 'pro' is just a name with no difference to justify it

So your quibbling about what changes should constitute a "pro" moniker, of which the extent of the changes that justify a name change to those in this conversation is subjective? At best?

Your view of absolute change vs marginal change is different than mine.

 

[Radon87000]

That's not the point, sj missed the mark and made a misstep by missing convergence is the point and left Cook in a difficult position. (Sj would have had the same issue had he been alive) While to you these two devices have different philosophies I see them as more overlap than different. Neither does exactly what the other does, but there is overlap and different use cases at the same time.

Cook never really was interested in convergence so you can't blame Jobs on that one. First of all Apple isn't interested in making a Mac tablet (which they could have with the iPad Pro) while Microsoft is shoehorning Windows into every device which works wonderfully some of the time but not all the time .Apple is never gonna be MS on that one as Schiller confirmed the other day

There really is no overlap as the productive experience on a Surface while superior for mobility can't really compare to the key travel or raw power on a proper laptop like Surface Book or XPS 13

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Better display and cpu etc is justification enough for a pro label. You're splitting hairs here.

You are missing the point .The changes they did were par the course for iPad upgrades for years but by slapping on the pro label they charged a hefty premium for just the name change.You are paying a premium on the same dollars worth

 

[I7guy]

Cook never really was interested in convergence so you can't blame Jobs on that one. First of all Apple isn't interested in making a Mac tablet (which they could have with the iPad Pro) while Microsoft is shoehorning Windows into every device which works wonderfully some of the time but not all the time .Apple is never gonna be MS on that one as Schiller confirmed the other day

There really is no overlap as the productive experience on a Surface while superior for mobility can't really compare to the key travel or raw power on a proper laptop like Surface Book or XPS 13




You are missing the point .The changes they did were par the course for iPad upgrades for years but by slapping on the pro label they charged a hefty premium for just the name change.You are paying a premium on the same dollars worth

Jobs gets the blame for leaving cook with a tweener device. Microsoft has been shoe-horning windows into every device pre-2008, so that should not be a surprise to anybody.

Your opinion of pro maybe different than others and mine. According to your logic the sp4 shouldn't be pro either and yet, here we are. Just business as usual and a company has no business in naming a device with a pro moniker. Gotcha.

 

[Radon87000]

Jobs gets the blame for leaving cook with a tweener device. Microsoft has been shoe-horning windows into every device pre-2008, so that should not be a surprise to anybody.

Again how is he to blame for NOT copying Microsoft's vision (because that's what you are wanting him to do) ? Before Timmy took over the iPad was already the best tablet on the planet with zero competition so why change the formula?

Your opinion of pro maybe different than others and mine. According to your logic the sp4 shouldn't be pro either and yet, here we are. Just business as usual and a company has no business in naming a device with a pro moniker. Gotcha.

There is a lot more to pro than a faster processor and a better display. iPad Pro only has the above . Surface while not completely useful for dedicated productivity (as I mentioned above) is still good for productivity on the go because it can run desktop and legacy office apps so the naming is justified to a extent . However the only true pro device is the Surface Book