Tim Cook discussion thread [merged]

[Radon87000]

I think Tim Cook is doing a great job as C.E.O of Apple, I don't see what people's problem is.

The problem is he failed at maintaining the innovation leader title which Apple had when Jobs was at the helm.Missing deadlines,software updates bricking devices,making $3000 laptops which dont last more than 7 hours AND cant connect to an iPhone or iPad out of box,no concrete road map on whether Apple has innovative product categories like the iPod,iPhone and iPad in the pipeline,declining quarters etc.

He did a brilliant job at increasing profits which is short term.Long term requires a visionary like Jobs and it is this vision which eventually results into cash cows which give these supernormal profits.

 

[Dave245]

The problem is he failed at maintaining the innovation leader title which Apple had when Jobs was at the helm.Missing deadlines,software updates bricking devices,making $3000 laptops which dont last more than 7 hours AND cant connect to an iPhone or iPad out of box,no concrete road map on whether Apple has innovative product categories like the iPod,iPhone and iPad in the pipeline,declining quarters etc.

He did a brilliant job at increasing profits which is short term.Long term requires a visionary like Jobs and it is this vision which eventually results into cash cows which give these supernormal profits.

Jobs must of seen something because he hand picked Cook to be C.E.O but I understand that, jobs is gone and I doubt anyone will ever be able to replace him. Tim isn't a visionary like Jobs, but I don't think Apple is doing a bad job, the iPhone 7 and 7 plus are great phones in fact I'd go as far as to say the best smartphones on the market at the moment, but that is subjective and an opinion, the iPad Pro is also a great device, and from what I've read the MacBook Pro's are getting good reviews accept for the battery issue. The Airpods have been release and I love them, I think they are typically Apple like. But I don't think Apple is perfect, has it made mistakes, yes definitely, but is it as bad as some people are saying (no innovation, doomed and so on) I don't think it is. I guess we will have to see further down the road, the next update should be to iMacs and Mac pros next year possibly. Also iPad Pro 2 and so on.

 

[I7guy]

He may be in for the long haul but the shareholders definitely aren't.Theres only so many declining quarters they can bear

As long as the board likes him that is all that matters. If the shareholders revolt they can elect a new board and the new board elects a new CEO, but Timmy seems very well liked where it matters most.

Only Internet talking points care Apple made only 50B last quarter and it was down 2% from last year.

WB by the way, I missed the witty repartee.

 

[Radon87000]

As long as the board likes him that is all that matters.

The Board only likes him as long as the money keeps rolling in.Thats all.And its only a matter of time before this slow down assumes serious proportions

Only Internet talking points care Apple made only 50B last quarter and it was down 2% from last year.

-Operating margin at lowest in 7 years
-Apple iPhone profits continue nose diving

I'd say there are cracks developing in the foundation

WB by the way, I missed the witty repartee.

Yeah I missed it as well

 

[I7guy]

The Board only likes him as long as the money keeps rolling in.Thats all.And its only a matter of time before this slow down assumes serious proportions


-Operating margin at lowest in 7 years
-Apple iPhone profits continue nose diving

I'd say there are cracks developing in the foundation


Yeah I missed it as well

So here it goes. Your version of what may be issues might be slightly different than apples management version. Apple has grown tremendously under cook, more product , more revenue, most valuable company, continued yoy gains in stocks.

So let me know when Timmy actually gets replaced. (I say 5 years)

 

[AidenShaw]

As long as the board likes him that is all that matters. If the shareholders revolt they can elect a new board and the new board elects a new CEO, but Timmy seems very well liked where it matters most.

Only Internet talking points care Apple made only 50B last quarter and it was down 2% from last year.

WB by the way, I missed the witty repartee.

And Apple's absurdly ostentatious spaceship campus will be opening soon - along with ongoing revenue drops.

Not a good combination for the CEO's salary continuation plan. Tim should have canceled the ridiculous spaceship campus the day after Jobs' funeral.

 

[I7guy]

And Apple's absurdly ostentatious spaceship campus will be opening soon - along with ongoing revenue drops.

Not a good combination for the CEO's salary continuation plan. Tim should have canceled the ridiculous spaceship campus the day after Jobs' funeral.

What does the first have to do with anything being discussed, other than you don't like their new campus?

http://www.apple.com/newsroom/2016/10/apple-reports-fourth-quarter-results.html

Seems the guidance is pretty good for the next quarter.

 

[macbookhair]

I don't think there is a problem with Tim Cook, he isn't Steve Jobs and he isn't meant to be. Jobs is gone and has been for the past 5 years, time has changed and moved on. I think Tim Cook is doing a great job as C.E.O of Apple, I don't see what people's problem is.

1.) The products aren't at the cutting edge anymore
2.) The products aren't as easy to use and elegant in operation as they once were
3.) Prices have increased drastically for little additional benefit
4.) Swathes of their product line are stagnant and in need of updating
5.) Software quality and design is in decline
6.) Advertising is no longer as clear and effective as it once was
7.) Their keynotes lack discipline and focus and are no longer the must see events they were in the past
8.) They are becoming over reliant on the iPhone
9.) The only new product category they have moved into since Jobs death is the smartwatch and the Apple Watch has been a disappointment to many and failed to move the needle
10.) Their services are unreliable, inconsistent and often, not nice to use. Worst offender - Apple Music
11.) Rivals such as Microsoft are stealing the innovative edge Apple once had
12.) Their product lines are becoming fragmented with unclear naming and excessive variation to little benefit to the end user
13.) They are binning important products that were a key part of their ecosystem such as the Airports
14.) Recent product releases have been user hostile through exclusion of ports and out of date features for increased prices

Just a few of the reasons.

 

[Dave245]

1.) The products aren't at the cutting edge anymore
2.) The products aren't as easy to use and elegant in operation as they once were
3.) Prices have increased drastically for little additional benefit
4.) Swathes of their product line are stagnant and in need of updating
5.) Software quality and design is in decline
6.) Advertising is no longer as clear and effective as it once was
7.) Their keynotes lack discipline and focus and are no longer the must see events they were in the past
8.) They are becoming over reliant on the iPhone
9.) The only new product category they have moved into since Jobs death is the smartwatch and the Apple Watch has been a disappointment to many and failed to move the needle
10.) Their services are unreliable, inconsistent and often, not nice to use. Worst offender - Apple Music
11.) Rivals such as Microsoft are stealing the innovative edge Apple once had
12.) Their product lines are becoming fragmented with unclear naming and excessive variation to little benefit to the end user
13.) They are binning important products that were a key part of their ecosystem such as the Airports
14.) Recent product releases have been user hostile through exclusion of ports and out of date features for increased prices

Just a few of the reasons.

Sorry but I don't agree, I'm not going to go through every one of them, but I definitely dissagree in regard to the Apple Watch, it's a great device, I never use to wear a watch at all and now it feels weird if I'm not wearing it, also I love to use it when I go running. Apple Music is a great service, something I use everyday and in fact it's doing well, Apple now have over 20 million subscribers.
I do agree that keynotes are not as entertaining as when Jobs use to do them, but that's because he was a great showman.

In my opinion products are still as good as ever, the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus are brilliant, I love mine, the iPad Pro is a great iPad and the Airpods are brilliant. I suppose it's each to their own, this is all opinion based.

 

[businezguy]

Sorry but I don't agree, I'm not going to go through every one of them, but I definitely dissagree in regard to the Apple Watch, it's a great device, I never use to wear a watch at all and now it feels weird if I'm not wearing it, also I love to use it when I go running. Apple Music is a great service, something I use everyday and in fact it's doing well, Apple now have over 20 million subscribers.
I do agree that keynotes are not as entertaining as when Jobs use to do them, but that's because he was a great showman.

In my opinion products are still as good as ever, the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus are brilliant, I love mine, the iPad Pro is a great iPad and the Airpods are brilliant. I suppose it's each to their own, this is all opinion based.

Macbookhair made some extremely good points, and quite frankly you didn't have much to go back on. You enjoy the iPhone, the same device he claims Apple is over reliant on. That's no surprise since Apple is over reliant on the product, so it's one of the few that's going to have some R&D invested in it. The problem is, Apple is over reliant on that product you like, not that the product isn't good.

The scary part is I could come up with a list of my own without even touching on Macbookhair's list. I'm not going to bother, the list is simply overwhelming. Tim Cook is proving to be an incompetent CEO.

 

[Dave245]

Macbookhair made some extremely good points, and quite frankly you didn't have much to go back on. You enjoy the iPhone, the same device he claims Apple is over reliant on. That's no surprise since Apple is over reliant on the product, so it's one of the few that's going to have some R&D invested in it. The problem is, Apple is over reliant on that product you like, not that the product isn't good.

The scary part is I could come up with a list of my own without even touching on Macbookhair's list. I'm not going to bother, the list is simply overwhelming. Tim Cook is proving to be an incompetent CEO.

Considering it's all opinion based, I didn't have anything to go back on. What one person enjoys another person may not. I personally like the products that Apple have released, but like I said it's a personally opinion, maybe they don't match what other people want, but you can't please everyone all of the time, I still think Apple makes the best computer on the market (again this is opinion based, since I don't like windows based machines) the same with the iPhone and iPad, since I don't like Andriod.

 

[businezguy]

Considering it's all opinion based, I didn't have anything to go back on. What one person enjoys another person may not. I personally like the products that Apple have released, but like I said it's a personally opinion, maybe they don't match what other people want, but you can't please everyone all of the time, I still think Apple makes the best computer on the market (again this is opinion based, since I don't like windows based machines) the same with the iPhone and iPad, since I don't like Andriod.

If Apple keeps going in the direction it is, the whole foundation of the company could come crashing down under you. If you enjoy Apple products so much, I don't think you should defend them on the basis of those products, but looking at the bigger picture.

You're probably aware, but just in case, there's a Bloomberg article titled "How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists", and it brings up some serious concerns. Basically it states that Mac OS development no longer has a software team exclusive to it. How do you think future updates of Mac OS will fair in the future? What about the fact that Microsoft continues to update Windows 10 with new features will significantly increasing stability?

The article also goes on to say that Apple based the design/chassis of the MacBook Pro around the assumption that they'd develop new battery technology that would allow the battery to conform to the shape of the MacBook Pro chassis but when that battery technology failed a major test, they decided to throw in an older battery with less capacity than planned and simply lie about the battery length by using a very specific test that would favor Apple's results. Of course Apple also raised the price of the MacBook Pro compared to the 2015 model, charging a premium for a laptop that really only offers a slight improvement in weight and reduction in volume and a touch bar that contradicts Apple's statements about the benefits of touch screens without actually providing the full benefit of a touch screen. Doesn't it bother you that a company would charge more for a product they couldn't even successfully complete? Doesn't it also bother you that they released the product without completing it in order to take advantage of holiday sales? Is this a way to run a company for LONG TERM SUCCESS?

By the way, I also enjoy Apple Music, I find it's the best music service provided, and I've tried them all. Heck, I'm listening to it right now as I type this post. The problem with Apple Music is its also the most buggy of all the music services. So many times I'll search for something and the search doesn't load properly, as one example. So even though I enjoy the service and am paying for it, it concerns me that Apple didn't do a better job of implementing a service that was more reliable. Apple has had struggles with services in the past, but this seems far worse.

All of this is shows a pattern. Release a MacBook Pro that can't plug into an iPhone without a dongle. Don't include the dongle in the box even though the MacBook Pro is a very expensive purchase. Release an incomplete product because you want to improve profits for the holiday season. The article also infers there's a problem with morale in the company, many key engineers leaving the company entirely or requesting new assignments. I also noticed that the past three keynotes Tim Cook has been in, he didn't thank the employees of their hard work or provide them with some time off. All of this points to a company that is focused on meeting certain numbers instead of focusing on customers or employees. Steve Jobs might have been a tyrant, but he had a vision of the future employees could rally around. This company just seems to be churning out products that simply have the Apple logo on it.

I'm telling you, 2016 was not kind to Apple. There's no reason to believe 2017 will be better aside from the new iPhone 8 form factor (which will probably drive the last record breaking improvement in sales for Apple). As smart phones become less interesting to the general consumer, and with the Mac unit of Apple basically plundered, and with iPad sales falling precipitously, and with Apple planning on finding new revenue through services even though they suck at services, one has to wonder how bright Apple's future will be.

 

[Dave245]

If Apple keeps going in the direction it is, the whole foundation of the company could come crashing down under you. If you enjoy Apple products so much, I don't think you should defend them on the basis of those products, but looking at the bigger picture.

You're probably aware, but just in case, there's a Bloomberg article titled "How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists", and it brings up some serious concerns. Basically it states that Mac OS development no longer has a software team exclusive to it. How do you think future updates of Mac OS will fair in the future? What about the fact that Microsoft continues to update Windows 10 with new features will significantly increasing stability?

The article also goes on to say that Apple based the design/chassis of the MacBook Pro around the assumption that they'd develop new battery technology that would allow the battery to conform to the shape of the MacBook Pro chassis but when that battery technology failed a major test, they decided to throw in an older battery with less capacity than planned and simply lie about the battery length by using a very specific test that would favor Apple's results. Of course Apple also raised the price of the MacBook Pro compared to the 2015 model, charging a premium for a laptop that really only offers a slight improvement in weight and reduction in volume and a touch bar that contradicts Apple's statements about the benefits of touch screens without actually providing the full benefit of a touch screen. Doesn't it bother you that a company would charge more for a product they couldn't even successfully complete? Doesn't it also bother you that they released the product without completing it in order to take advantage of holiday sales? Is this a way to run a company for LONG TERM SUCCESS?

By the way, I also enjoy Apple Music, I find it's the best music service provided, and I've tried them all. Heck, I'm listening to it right now as I type this post. The problem with Apple Music is its also the most buggy of all the music services. So many times I'll search for something and the search doesn't load properly, as one example. So even though I enjoy the service and am paying for it, it concerns me that Apple didn't do a better job of implementing a service that was more reliable. Apple has had struggles with services in the past, but this seems far worse.

All of this is shows a pattern. Release a MacBook Pro that can't plug into an iPhone without a dongle. Don't include the dongle in the box even though the MacBook Pro is a very expensive purchase. Release an incomplete product because you want to improve profits for the holiday season. The article also infers there's a problem with morale in the company, many key engineers leaving the company entirely or requesting new assignments. I also noticed that the past three keynotes Tim Cook has been in, he didn't thank the employees of their hard work or provide them with some time off. All of this points to a company that is focused on meeting certain numbers instead of focusing on customers or employees. Steve Jobs might have been a tyrant, but he had a vision of the future employees could rally around. This company just seems to be churning out products that simply have the Apple logo on it.

I'm telling you, 2016 was not kind to Apple. There's no reason to believe 2017 will be better aside from the new iPhone 8 form factor (which will probably drive the last record breaking improvement in sales for Apple). As smart phones become less interesting to the general consumer, and with the Mac unit of Apple basically plundered, and with iPad sales falling precipitously, and with Apple planning on finding new revenue through services even though they suck at services, one has to wonder how bright Apple's future will be.

Yea I did see that, but I tend to take those type of things with a pinch of salt, mainly because it's impossible for any of us to corroborate since we don't work at Apple. I'm not saying that they are perfect, don't get me wrong, they have made mistakes. The price of the MacBook Pro's are really high and are one of the reasons why I have waited to update my 2011 MacBook Pro. I think it's really difficult for them to keep up to the same Steve Jobs kind of Apple, software has been a little buggy in places, but I don't think it's anything that they can't pull back in 2017. I guess time will tell. I want them to release some brilliant products, I'm not a windows fan so I'm tied into the Mac and I'm not an Andriod fan so I'm tied into the IOS system, it would be terrible if they messed it all up.

 

[macbookhair]

Considering it's all opinion based, I didn't have anything to go back on. What one person enjoys another person may not. I personally like the products that Apple have released, but like I said it's a personally opinion, maybe they don't match what other people want, but you can't please everyone all of the time, I still think Apple makes the best computer on the market (again this is opinion based, since I don't like windows based machines) the same with the iPhone and iPad, since I don't like Andriod.

Try a Surface Pro 4 with an open mind and you may be surprised at how different Microsoft is under Satya Nadella.

Not as elegant as Apple at their best but bloody close.

 

[I7guy]

Try a Surface Pro 4 with an open mind and you may be surprised at how different Microsoft is under Satya Nadella.

Not as elegant as Apple at their best but bloody close.

Windows 10 is windows 10 and it's not my favorite O/S. It's the form factor of the SP4 that the difference, however Windows has been on many different form factors since the 1990s and I'm not sure what Satya Nadella actually did above and beyond any other Microsoft CEO.

 

[AidenShaw]

And Apple's absurdly ostentatious spaceship campus will be opening soon - along with ongoing revenue drops.

Not a good combination for the CEO's salary continuation plan. Tim should have canceled the ridiculous spaceship campus the day after Jobs' funeral.

What does the first have to do with anything being discussed, other than you don't like their new campus?

The discussion (look at the title) is about Tim Cook, and his performance as CEO.

My comment is relevant - it's that as the new CEO Cook should have killed the ego-driven monument to (and by) Jobs that's being built in Cupertino.

 

[I7guy]

The discussion (look at the title) is about Tim Cook, and his performance as CEO.

My comment is relevant - it's that as the new CEO Cook should have killed the ego-driven monument to (and by) Jobs that's being built in Cupertino.

I don't have any issue with the campus. a company the size of Apple should build, if it wants and can afford, a beautiful campus. They weren't the first nor will they be the last to build an attractive expensive environment for its employees.

 

[AidenShaw]

I don't have any issue with the campus. a company the size of Apple should build, if it wants and can afford, a beautiful campus. They weren't the first nor will they be the last to build an attractive expensive environment for its employees.

I can't find it now, but when the campus was proposed there was an article about how some companies built grandiose headquarters, and soon after began to decline. (Remember when there was a "Sears Tower" in Chicago?)

I also have issues with the traffic that will be created in an already traffic-jam prone area, and the very low employee density. A high-rise complex near to the existing rail and trolley lines would have been a much greener choice. With a high-rise headquarters, Apple could have created condos and apartments to get people off the highways completely.

The choice of a glass building instead of materials that can be better insulated was also a poor energy choice.

 

[I7guy]

I can't find it now, but when the campus was proposed there was an article about how some companies built grandiose headquarters, and soon after began to decline. (Remember when there was a "Sears Tower" in Chicago?)

I also have issues with the traffic that will be created in an already traffic-jam prone area, and the very low employee density. A high-rise complex near to the existing rail and trolley lines would have been a much greener choice. With a high-rise headquarters, Apple could have created condos and apartments to get people off the highways completely.

The choice of a glass building instead of materials that can be better insulated was also a poor energy choice.

The "sears" tower was built in 1973 and Sears destiny was not a result of that tower. There are many buildings with corporate logos attached and that is not an indication of putting the "kiss of death" on a company.

As far as the traffic that is an issue for an approval permit by the planning board. That issue is faced all over the country. There might be valid reasons the general population is not privvy to as to why this design, this area was chosen.

Glass is high-tech these days and can be made very energy efficient. Unless you know exactly the construction, you can't say it's not green.

I get this is your opinion.

 

[Arran]

I can't find it now, but when the campus was proposed there was an article about how some companies built grandiose headquarters, and soon after began to decline.

Yeah, I remember reading that a long time ago. Probably in some tech CEO's autobiography in the 80's?

But yes, it's a widely-held belief and goes by various names: "The new HQ curse", "Edifice Complex", "skyscraper index", etc. The gist of it is that decisions to build these monumental structures are often made in the confidence and hubris of a business-cycle peak - after which it's downhill all the way.

Here's one article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveblank/2013/08/01/the-curse-of-a-new-building/#3a0dd38e1beb

And another: http://www.businessinsider.com/poorly-timed-headquarters-2009-11

 

[macbookhair]

Windows 10 is windows 10 and it's not my favorite O/S. It's the form factor of the SP4 that the difference, however Windows has been on many different form factors since the 1990s and I'm not sure what Satya Nadella actually did above and beyond any other Microsoft CEO.

Understood customer needs and worked on coming up with a cohesive strategy to fill those needs while innovating on form factor and software features. He has overseen a drastic and ongoing improvement of Windows, as well as a new delivery mechanism that is based around selling Windows as a service.

He has exploited the gaps left by Apple and is winning customers back to Microsoft, while offering packages of products that are light years ahead of anything Microsoft has produced before.

What has Tim Cook done?

 

[I7guy]

Understood customer needs and worked on coming up with a cohesive strategy to fill those needs while innovating on form factor and software features. He has overseen a drastic and ongoing improvement of Windows, as well as a new delivery mechanism that is based around selling Windows as a service.

He has exploited the gaps left by Apple and is winning customers back to Microsoft, while offering packages of products that are light years ahead of anything Microsoft has produced before.

What has Tim Cook done?

Understood customer needs and worked on coming up with a cohesive strategy to fill those needs while innovating on form factor and software features. He has overseen a drastic and ongoing improvement of their companies software.

He has exploited the gaps left by Microsoft and Google and is winning new customers to Apple, while offering packages of products that are light years ahead of anything the competition has produced before.

See, I just quoted you as your statement is so ambiguous and can be applied to virtually anything. I actually don't know what this CEO has done for me as a Microsoft Customer, other than a new iteration of windows with lots of telemetry. Maybe other's cheer him on, but I have neutral feelings. I'll give him credit for Azure, but it loses hands-down to AWS unfortunately, according to reputable IT reviews.

But after all of that, I'm still not sure the Microsoft CEO has done other than to install tracking software on all windows 10 boxes, which has been labeled spyware. Surely the sign of a customer focused CEO, eh?

 

[macbookhair]

Understood customer needs and worked on coming up with a cohesive strategy to fill those needs while innovating on form factor and software features. He has overseen a drastic and ongoing improvement of their companies software.

He has exploited the gaps left by Microsoft and Google and is winning new customers to Apple, while offering packages of products that are light years ahead of anything the competition has produced before.

See, I just quoted you as your statement is so ambiguous and can be applied to virtually anything. I actually don't know what this CEO has done for me as a Microsoft Customer, other than a new iteration of windows with lots of telemetry. Maybe other's cheer him on, but I have neutral feelings. I'll give him credit for Azure, but it loses hands-down to AWS unfortunately, according to reputable IT reviews.

But after all of that, I'm still not sure the Microsoft CEO has done other than to install tracking software on all windows 10 boxes, which has been labeled spyware. Surely the sign of a customer focused CEO, eh?

If you insist.

 

[I7guy]

If you insist.

Exactly.

 

[Fabian90]

Apple has kinda lost its spark.
I no longer feel like they care about customers or take so much pride in their products as they used to.

They think it's enough to not have the best products, the best service. They think they can get away with charging so much for products which are not even best in their category sometimes. They make too many compromises for their profits.

1) They abandon the serious/professional users. Maybe they don't make that much profit with Mac Pros, but it's about have some prestige product there as well and also remembering who made them big.

2) They forget about the ecosystem! Maybe the Airport Extreme or Thunderbolt display didn't generate much profit, but the eco system is one of the reason people buy the expensive MacBooks!

3) They overcharge for seriously flawed or outdated products. It's so expensive today and who the hell puts the charging port of a mouse at the bottom? How can you be taken seriously for shipping 5400 rpm HDDs and 4 Gb RAM for 1000+ USD devices?

4) Inconsistency everywhere. There is no vision! Even me, a hardcore Apple user for years gets confused. The product names don't make any sense. You can't buy a Mac Mini now because there might be a new one coming in two months... or never. USB-C here, lightning there, TB here etc.

5) They don't innovate as much. They still have some great ideas but it's not even close to the years with Jobs. I don't remember when I was overwhelmed or excited the last time at an Apple Keynote

I could probably get a lot more points on that list... but not on Christmas.

They need some fresh blood.