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xgman

macrumors 603
Aug 6, 2007
5,697
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There was a known TM bug back in one of the Summer betas apparently that threw some non completion errors. A bit different than this, but maybe it is a leftover issue of sorts.

I'm tempted to try the 12.1 beta, but I think it's unlikely fixed, and I'll probably just wait unless someone reports a fix there.
 

MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
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Denham Springs, LA
There was a known TM bug back in one of the Summer betas apparently that threw some non completion errors. A bit different than this, but maybe it is a leftover issue of sorts.

I'm tempted to try the 12.1 beta, but I think it's unlikely fixed, and I'll probably just wait unless someone reports a fix there.
Well consider this, Carbon Copy will give you a bootable backup while TM won't so might be some incentive to use while waiting for TM issues to be resolved on Apple's end. At least you'll have a reliable backup in case of emergency as well. Your issues seem to be more complex than mine were to resolve, and I was myself going to switch to CCC, if I hadn't gotten TM working again.
 
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likegadgets

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2008
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Well consider this, Carbon Copy will give you a bootable backup while TM won't so might be some incentive to use while waiting for TM issues to be resolved on Apple's end. At least you'll have a reliable backup in case of emergency as well. Your issues seem to be more complex than mine were to resolve, and I was myself going to switch to CCC, if I hadn't gotten TM working again.
I use a CCC competitor called SuperDuper from ShirtPocket. The have a new native M1 version of the software and also creates a backup bootable copy. I have read good reviews of both CCC and Superduper. Typically I have 3 drives connected for backups - two time machines and a drive for Super Duper that dues constant updates. I also have to SSD drives I take when travelling one for TM and one for SuperSuper which I update before the trip and during so additional files are backed up. Excessive, maybe. All it takes I plugging the drives - all are encrypted.

Time Machine functionality that allows me to locate a prior version of a file has been useful - I am hoping they will resolve this.
 

likegadgets

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2008
785
355
US
There was a known TM bug back in one of the Summer betas apparently that threw some non completion errors. A bit different than this, but maybe it is a leftover issue of sorts.

I'm tempted to try the 12.1 beta, but I think it's unlikely fixed, and I'll probably just wait unless someone reports a fix there.
UPDATE - Just spend time with Sr. Advisor - they requested a screen recording of starting a time machine backup until the non completion message and then a running diagnostic tool they sent me that took a while. I uploaded the two files to Apple and will wait for a follow up from engineering.
 
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MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
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Denham Springs, LA
I use a CCC competitor called SuperDuper from ShirtPocket. The have a new native M1 version of the software and also creates a backup bootable copy. I have read good reviews of both CCC and Superduper. Typically I have 3 drives connected for backups - two time machines and a drive for Super Duper that dues constant updates. I also have to SSD drives I take when travelling one for TM and one for SuperSuper which I update before the trip and during so additional files are backed up. Excessive, maybe. All it takes I plugging the drives - all are encrypted.

Time Machine functionality that allows me to locate a prior version of a file has been useful - I am hoping they will resolve this.
I own a license to both SuperDuper, and CCC. I stuck with CCC while Shirt pocket worked out the bootable backup issues. Also, I chose CCC over SuperDuper for a while because it was able to clone the recovery partion, while SuperDuper was not. I like both programs, and have three solutions for backup.
 

jg66ue

macrumors member
Nov 1, 2021
40
24
Glad I found this forum. Been having issues for a week now. Just bought the 2021 macbook pro and time machine has been a disaster.

Day 1 - drive backed up once on the new system (after migration) and then all of the sudden was full and unable to complete anymore backups. Was instructed to reformat.
Day 2&3 - getting the system to allow me to reformat was near impossible. after much trying, I had to open up my old 2016 macbook and reformat the drive there.
Day 4&5 - once I get the backup finally going, each subsequent backup take 4 hours and creates a full new backup. I do see the backups when I enter time machine, BUT system preferences says no new backups were made and in the finder folder for time machine backups, no additional backups are forming outside of the first back up.

I'm currently trying to do this all over again - but this time - without encryption - as I read that encryption might be the issue here. I'll keep you updated.

This was bad enough, but my logitech bluetooth keyboard was causing constant kernal panics with force restarts. Oy.

j.
 
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MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
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Denham Springs, LA
Glad I found this forum. Been having issues for a week now. Just bought the 2021 macbook pro and time machine has been a disaster.

Day 1 - drive backed up once on the new system (after migration) and then all of the sudden was full and unable to complete anymore backups. Was instructed to reformat.
Day 2&3 - getting the system to allow me to reformat was near impossible. after much trying, I had to open up my old 2016 macbook and reformat the drive there.
Day 4&5 - once I get the backup finally going, each subsequent backup take 4 hours and creates a full new backup. I do see the backups when I enter time machine, BUT system preferences says no new backups were made and in the finder folder for time machine backups, no additional backups are forming outside of the first back up.

I'm currently trying to do this all over again - but this time - without encryption - as I read that encryption might be the issue here. I'll keep you updated.

This was bad enough, but my logitech bluetooth keyboard was causing constant kernal panics with force restarts. Oy.

j.
Hi there, welcome to the thread! As far as encryption goes, I recommended against it strictly for speed with mechanical drives. It worked OK under Big Sur, but with Monterey, it was taking forever to make the first backup. If you're using an SSD for the backup, you probably wouldn't notice much difference. It seems like Time machine is also hit, or miss here as it seems to work for some, but not others. I was the one who started the thread, on this topic, and thought the issue had been resolved. Turns out, that the more people who show up are having more complex issues than my own.
Hopefully, everyone here besides myself, will be able to resolve their issues soon :)
 

jg66ue

macrumors member
Nov 1, 2021
40
24
Hi there, welcome to the thread! As far as encryption goes, I recommended against it strictly for speed with mechanical drives. It worked OK under Big Sur, but with Monterey, it was taking forever to make the first backup. If you're using an SSD for the backup, you probably wouldn't notice much difference. It seems like Time machine is also hit, or miss here as it seems to work for some, but not others. I was the one who started the thread, on this topic, and thought the issue had been resolved. Turns out, that the more people who show up are having more complex issues than my own.
Hopefully, everyone here besides myself, will be able to resolve their issues soon :)
According to senior tech at apple, they are now starting to say this is THEIR problem and specifically associated with something in Monterey. Though, i'm sure apple will not cop to this anytime soon.

It is an SSD and incremental backups should be very fast, but this isn't doing incremental backups. It's behavior after the first backup is incredibly odd. Like I said, trying again now and we shall see.
 
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MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
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Denham Springs, LA
According to senior tech at apple, they are now starting to say this is THEIR problem and specifically associated with something in Monterey. Though, i'm sure apple will not cop to this anytime soon.

It is an SSD and incremental backups should be very fast, but this isn't doing incremental backups. It's behavior after the first backup is incredibly odd. Like I said, trying again now and we shall see.
Well, I'm glad Apple has acknowledged they have an issue, or at least beginning to. Maybe it's related to the memory issue people started reporting today.
 
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colinsky

macrumors regular
Apr 3, 2009
185
192
I installed Monterey on an external SSD on my m1 Mini to take a look at it. When I restarted back on the internal Big Sur drive, Time Machine stopped working. I didn't notice this for several days.

Apple support told me to run this in Terminal to delete a plist:
sudo defaults delete /Library/Preferences/com.apple.TimeMachine

After a restart, Time Machine still slowly filled the storage disk while never completing the first backup. Apple Support told me to re-install the os.

I put the m1 into recovery mode--but the only reinstall option it gave me was for Monterey. I guess when I installed Monterey on the external drive, it altered something in the m1 Mini.

I didn't have a Big Sur installer on hand so instead of the recovery mode, I went to the App Store and downloaded a Big Sur installer and now I'm up and running and Time Machine is working fine.
 

ChedNasad

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2020
149
374
I'm having issues with time machine as well. First backup seems fine but then when I back it up again it doesnt seem to work and I've even had it corrupt some backups as well? It made transferring over to my new machine using time machine impossible so I had to use thunderbolt.
 
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likegadgets

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2008
785
355
US
I sent this thread to tips at Macrumors - this is clearly a growing issue wit Monterey and M1s, I suggest you too let the tips email know your Time Machine issues as they may reach Apple for comment or status on this.
The address is tips@macrumors.com
 
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MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
787
Denham Springs, LA
I sent this thread to tips at Macrumors - this is clearly a growing issue wit Monterey and M1s, I suggest you too let the tips email know your Time Machine issues as they may reach Apple for comment or status on this.
The address is tips@macrumors.com
I wonder if I should have done that after creating the thread. I just found out about the option though, just now reading your post.

I usually only come here if there is an issue I can't solve on my own, or to keep up with OS and update(s) release schedules.
 
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jg66ue

macrumors member
Nov 1, 2021
40
24
Update on this post:

Ran a full backup without encryption. Took 6 hours and no backup was "made". There is a backup when you look in time machine and you can even see backups from BEFORE the SSD was reformatted (which makes 0 sense). However, in finder there are no folders under the backup drive and you can see the computer doesn't think a backup was even made. Good lord this sucks.

Screen Shot 2021-11-01 at 7.02.23 PM.png


Glad I found this forum. Been having issues for a week now. Just bought the 2021 macbook pro and time machine has been a disaster.

Day 1 - drive backed up once on the new system (after migration) and then all of the sudden was full and unable to complete anymore backups. Was instructed to reformat.
Day 2&3 - getting the system to allow me to reformat was near impossible. after much trying, I had to open up my old 2016 macbook and reformat the drive there.
Day 4&5 - once I get the backup finally going, each subsequent backup take 4 hours and creates a full new backup. I do see the backups when I enter time machine, BUT system preferences says no new backups were made and in the finder folder for time machine backups, no additional backups are forming outside of the first back up.

I'm currently trying to do this all over again - but this time - without encryption - as I read that encryption might be the issue here. I'll keep you updated.

This was bad enough, but my logitech bluetooth keyboard was causing constant kernal panics with force restarts. Oy.

j.
 

MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
787
Denham Springs, LA
Update on this post:

Ran a full backup without encryption. Took 6 hours and no backup was "made". There is a backup when you look in time machine and you can even see backups from BEFORE the SSD was reformatted (which makes 0 sense). However, in finder there are no folders under the backup drive and you can see the computer doesn't think a backup was even made. Good lord this sucks.

View attachment 1900200
I was starting to think, it maybe the type of install done matters. For example, my iMac has not been wiped clean since the clean install of Catalina done a couple years ago. So, my system has gone from Catalina to Big Sur, and now to Monterey. Yes, I had some issues when doing the first backup after the upgrade until I started over without an encrypted disk. Meanwhile, others here who either have a new Apple Silicon based mac, or an existing mac, but did a clean install seem to be having more complicated issues. The platform may come into play as well.

I'm seeing evidence where certain circumstances trigger these problems, while others, even if there is a speed hit, seem to function OK in the long term. Right now though, it doesn't seem like even Apple knows the exact problem, only there is one, based on feedback here. That is one good thing about backups though, there are many solutions, so at least, if Time machine is broken, people won't be stuck without a backup since there are other good solutions to use while waiting for a fix.
 
Last edited:
I have just updated from Mojave straight to MONTEREY.. All seems ok with everything else except Time Machine.

I also updated Lightroom Classic and Photoshop to the latest versions and then had to upgrade Carbon Copy Cloner to V6 as V5 would not work with Monterey. So quite a bit has changed on my iMac ( 5k Radeon 2017 .. 1 TB SSD Mackintosh drive )

I decided to refomat my external dedicated SSD that is used only for time machine.
It was previously set as Mac OS extended ( journalled ) using GUID partition map. It is now APFS with GUID partition map.
I will start the back up tomorrow morning and see how it goes.

I understand that the first time will take the longest.

QUESTION??
Does my machine need to be powered up for Time Machine to work?
I do not use any hibernate or auto shut down processes, so when I set the first back up going in Time Machine does my iMac need to be left on?


Cheers

Bernard
 

MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
787
Denham Springs, LA
I have just updated from Mojave straight to MONTEREY.. All seems ok with everything else except Time Machine.

I also updated Lightroom Classic and Photoshop to the latest versions and then had to upgrade Carbon Copy Cloner to V6 as V5 would not work with Monterey. So quite a bit has changed on my iMac ( 5k Radeon 2017 .. 1 TB SSD Mackintosh drive )

I decided to refomat my external dedicated SSD that is used only for time machine.
It was previously set as Mac OS extended ( journalled ) using GUID partition map. It is now APFS with GUID partition map.
I will start the back up tomorrow morning and see how it goes.

I understand that the first time will take the longest.

QUESTION??
Does my machine need to be powered up for Time Machine to work?
I do not use any hibernate or auto shut down processes, so when I set the first back up going in Time Machine does my iMac need to be left on?


Cheers

Bernard
Hi Bernard,
Yes, the iMac needs to be on for the Time Machine backup to run, and complete. What I would suggest is, in the power management settings in system preferences is to check the box to prevent sleep when the display sleeps. This way, the display will turn off when idle, but it will sure the Mac doesn't go to sleep. That's how I run my own iMac because it runs a Plex server, so it keeps it awake so Plex is always active, and accessible. I'm not saying you can't let the computer sleep, but for the process of getting things finished up as soon as possible, prevent sleep.
I have a late 2015 iMac, the generation right behind yours.
 

xgman

macrumors 603
Aug 6, 2007
5,697
1,425
This is a cluster F. Clearly TM is fubar'ed in Monterey. Wish I had known that before I nuked all my prior backups via reformatting attempts to fix it. And for Apple to suggest reinstalling Monterey when you backups are nuked, only to have the same problem again is irresponsible at best. Glad I made a CCC backup before this got worse. In the meantime I have set TM off and await a fix. I would happily go to the beta route if I thought this and the reported memory leak were addressed, but that's unknown at this time.
 
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MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
787
Denham Springs, LA
This is a cluster F. Clearly TM is fubar'ed in Monterey. Wish I had known that before I nuked all my prior backups via reformatting attempts to fix it. And for Apple to suggest reinstalling Monterey when you backups are nuked, only to have the same problem again is irresponsible at best. Glad I made a CCC backup before this got worse. In the meantime I have set TM off and await a fix. I would happily go to the beta route if I thought this and the reported memory leak were addressed, but that's unknown at this time.
TM has never really been a thing to expect to have issues in the past. Even with all the bugs Apple has had with their new releases, TM has always been something that's worked. I wonder if it has to do with the new Apple Silicon macs. Before, they just had to focus on Intel. Now they have both platforms to deal with.
 
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likegadgets

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2008
785
355
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I find a common denominator in this one instance: Clean Install of the OS (Monterey). New drive Setup (that only allows for APFS, initial time machine unable to finish. I tried porting a Time Machine from prior system, it also did not work, I wiped time machine disks clean - did not work. I still have two historical time machines (I run various drives). But I am not messing these yet until there is a fix. Clearly this is an Apple problem
 
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jg66ue

macrumors member
Nov 1, 2021
40
24
I find a common denominator in this one instance: Clean Install of the OS (Monterey). New drive Setup (that only allows for APFS, initial time machine unable to finish. I tried porting a Time Machine from prior system, it also did not work, I wiped time machine disks clean - did not work. I still have two historical time machines (I run various drives). But I am not messing these yet until there is a fix. Clearly this is an Apple problem
agreed. i've now troubleshot this in every single way. this is apple's issue and particularly something in monterey that is causing the issue. it needs a fix.
 
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jg66ue

macrumors member
Nov 1, 2021
40
24
This is a cluster F. Clearly TM is fubar'ed in Monterey. Wish I had known that before I nuked all my prior backups via reformatting attempts to fix it. And for Apple to suggest reinstalling Monterey when you backups are nuked, only to have the same problem again is irresponsible at best. Glad I made a CCC backup before this got worse. In the meantime I have set TM off and await a fix. I would happily go to the beta route if I thought this and the reported memory leak were addressed, but that's unknown at this time.
i'm stuck, too, because my previous TM machine drives got nuked in trying to fix this. I've now migrated everything manually over to an external ssd in case an upgrade on monterey cascades into any more severe issues regarding my internal ssd.

The worst part is, there are also issues with reformatting external drives in Monterey's disk utility IF they had previously been used as a TM drive. So far, Monterey has bricked these drives 3 times. I was only able to recover them by going to a computer with Big Sur and running a reformat there.
 

MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
787
Denham Springs, LA
So, having read the recent pots, and having discerned that the initial issue I came here with has now gone quite a bit further than myself, what would be the best course of action for this thread now? We've concluded that apple has an issue. I was thankfully able to solve it, but others haven't. However, on the same token, I haven't seen any other reported problems outside this particular thread on current time machine issues. As I mentioned the other day, I'll leave the status as still active vs resolved, but since it's no longer about "just my issue", is there some way to change the name to reflect a more current and appropriate status ? If So I'll do that so people know it's sitll an issue, but no longer my specific issue.

Thanks for any suggestions.
 

jg66ue

macrumors member
Nov 1, 2021
40
24
So, having read the recent pots, and having discerned that the initial issue I came here with has now gone quite a bit further than myself, what would be the best course of action for this thread now? We've concluded that apple has an issue. I was thankfully able to solve it, but others haven't. However, on the same token, I haven't seen any other reported problems outside this particular thread on current time machine issues. As I mentioned the other day, I'll leave the status as still active vs resolved, but since it's no longer about "just my issue", is there some way to change the name to reflect a more current and appropriate status ? If So I'll do that so people know it's sitll an issue, but no longer my specific issue.

Thanks for any suggestions.
my apologies. i'm a newbie here and I don't know the rules about threads. if we can somehow keep a thread going with the TM issues in Monterey, that would be great. I think it is going to be a growing list of people, but since the amount of users who religiously use TM is small, it's going to take some time for Apple to take real notice.
 

MacinMan

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 27, 2011
1,379
787
Denham Springs, LA
my apologies. i'm a newbie here and I don't know the rules about threads. if we can somehow keep a thread going with the TM issues in Monterey, that would be great. I think it is going to be a growing list of people, but since the amount of users who religiously use TM is small, it's going to take some time for Apple to take real notice.
It's OK, it's not so much about violating any rules as that hasn't been done. I'm more asking how can we update the status of this thread because the types of issues (though the same theme) have increased beyond my own speed issue.

I will see if i can edit the first post and change the title that might work.
 
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