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It’s not about agreeing or disagreeing, it’s about what it is.
When you buy a product from Apple, the serial number is directly linked to the specification you ordered.
This means that if Apple ever releases an update that internally checks that your system actually matches with what the serial number is (which is exactly what they have been doing on the iPhone for years) you could be left with a bricked machine.
If saving money is the name of the game here, not voiding the warranty should be at the top of the list of priorities.
It is just simply not smart to do this on a brand new main machine.
lol this comment sounds like someone who has little idea what they are on about...

I can speak for at least independent repair shops that this situation is a bit more nuanced. The storage upgrade here is not just a NAND swap like you saw for the iPhones/iPads/MacBooks, it's actually a board swap which happens to include the NAND chip(s). This means literally everyone, including someone without the proper equipment, could have elected to keep the original board, and hardware wise once they put the original back it will be basically an identical unit to the original (c.f. NAND swap where you have lots of traces left with potentially different UV glue compared to OEM). At that point, if this case was to be raised in the EU at least, apple will very much have to honour the warranty because with a board swap there won't be sufficient proof that the user has physically modified the device once you put the original board back.
 
Basically, you must have a 2TB internal for less money than Apple charges. An external solves all of your self imposed problems as long as you boot off the internal. You save money, you can run AI, you have a decent amount of storage at speeds equaling, perhaps exceeding, what your 256gb can do.

Instead you keep opting to void your warranty and, like another mentioned, lose your hacked internal with the potential of an Apple update. Go for it.

For the record, doing this does not necessarily void your warranty, unless you are based in the states.

In this case if it is a simple board swap like what most users in this thread did, it is no different from when you used to be able to do a RAM upgrade with apple still having to honour the warranty. If someone however decided to do a chip swap by desoldering the original NAND (which is also possible on the M4 Mac mini but slightly more difficult as it requires actual soldering) then yes this definitely will void your warranty. As long as you install the original board back then I do not see apple voiding your warranty (unless you mess up big time by dropping water on the unit/losing a screw and leaving your thumbprint everywhere).

For other apple devices, storage upgrades were generally done by resoldering a different NAND and so it definitely will make a case for voiding warranty. In this instance, however, there will be insufficient evidence for hardware modification once you put the board back. From a software perspective, faking a storage size is possible with SIP disabled, and because the actual storage controller is not modified in the process, it means this boils down to the same case as to whether apple still honours the warranty after the device is jailbroken but later restored. In the EU at the very least, your warranty will be honoured so long as you restore it to the original state.
 
lol this comment sounds like someone who has little idea what they are on about...

I can speak for at least independent repair shops that this situation is a bit more nuanced. The storage upgrade here is not just a NAND swap like you saw for the iPhones/iPads/MacBooks, it's actually a board swap which happens to include the NAND chip(s). This means literally everyone, including someone without the proper equipment, could have elected to keep the original board, and hardware wise once they put the original back it will be basically an identical unit to the original (c.f. NAND swap where you have lots of traces left with potentially different UV glue compared to OEM). At that point, if this case was to be raised in the EU at least, apple will very much have to honour the warranty because with a board swap there won't be sufficient proof that the user has physically modified the device once you put the original board back.
This would be sony/nintendoesque behavior with firmware bricking the game console due to modifications if Apple decided to brick Mini’s that used 3rd party NAND boards. I don't see Apple doing this any time soon. Also, US is protected by Magnusson-Moss Act which they have to honor warranty unless they can prove your modification caused the damage.
 
This would be sony/nintendoesque behavior with firmware bricking the game console due to modifications if Apple decided to brick Mini’s that used 3rd party NAND boards. I don't see Apple doing this any time soon. Also, US is protected by Magnusson-Moss Act which they have to honor warranty unless they can prove your modification caused the damage.
I have been considering the legality of said potential bricking. I'm not going to comment on US consumer law because im not across it but I'm almost completely sure it would break Australian consumer law. I know they had to issue an apology here about the phones they bricked with 3rd party screens and had to roll back the chage and offer compensation in some cases. I expect with the little know about EU law it would be similar.

I think the biggest risk I see with these boards is the potential for some form of malware to be installed on them - not suggesting this is happening but it does seem possible. I could see a case for apple disabling them if this were happening.


Then again I can't really understand why Apple would chose a proprietary format of this nature over an m2. These are standard NAND chips, they are not apple made or specific. The board is though. Feels like a case for being proprietary for the sake of it and that's one thing about Apple that doesn't sit well with me.

I think the problem this time is they just went too far with pricing. Everyone expects to pay a tax for upgrades direct from the manufacturer (its no different from HP, Dell, etc.). I think most people have adjusted to expecting 1.5 - 2x premium (or there abouts). The 4x premium is why this market exists in the first place.

I'm not generally a mac person apart from when i get them for work (though I do think they have nailed this mini). However i happily (enough) maxed spec on my wife's mac's 10 years ago. Yes they were a bit pricey but it felt ok. AU$600 for an extra 16gb RAM is crazy though. $300 i would have been annoyed but paid it.
 
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As the chips are solely storage chips - without any form of identification - it will be impossible for Apple to block/brick anything here, unless macOS would search through an online database of system serial numbers and check what storage configuration this Mac was sold with, and if a larger one was found, disable it.
Do you think Apple would risk such procedure or anyone would consider this legal?
As JQ said:
it is no different from when you used to be able to do a RAM upgrade with apple still having to honour the warranty
So the comparison would be: Apple checks how much RAM is installed in your system and checks how much RAM this serial number was sold with, and then disables the system if the amount of RAM is different.

Obviously some of the posters here are not aware that M4 Mac Mini has a replaceable SSD, because this is different to what Apple did since the introduction of Apple silicon.

The next logical step is to make the RAM modular again as well, as there is not really a reason to make it non-modular.

The previously non-modular RAM and the non-modular SSD were the reason for me to not upgrade to Apple Silicon, and I believe I'm not the only one who waited for a minimum of 16GB RAM and a modular SSD to upgrade.
It was shown here several time, but it still seems some are unclear what the modular SSD in the M4 mini is:
1739597473295.png

It's a small PCB with NAND (=non-volatile memory) chips. It plugs into a socket on the motherboard. So it is the same as what has been done in the past over decades in iMacs, macbooks, PCs, etc.

Just because Apple solders the chips in (other) Apple Silicon computers directly onto the motherboard doesn't make them any better or different. So finally Apple heard the voice of customers and started making user-crucial parts modular again.

This is a first, tiny step for Apple towards sustainability, after having taken so many steps backwards.
 
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The next logical step is to make the RAM modular again as well, as there is not really a reason to make it non-modular.
There actually is a reason to make RAM non-modular - socketed RAM has latency overhead that would significantly reduce performance. Given Apple uses a Unified Memory Architecture, latency needs to be as low as possible.

Since I’m not a RAM/motherboard expert, I asked ChatGPT what the performance hit would be for switching to socketed RAM and this is what it came back with. It’s comparing the M3 series with top-of-the-line socketed RAM. If it’s making a mistake, I would love someone with more knowledge to chime in.

While the exact impact depends on workload, from soldered LPDDR5X to socketed DDR5 SO-DIMM could result in:
  • General computing: 5-10% slower (due to latency and lower bandwidth)
  • Creative workloads (video editing, 3D rendering): 15-30% slower (bandwidth-sensitive tasks)
  • Machine learning & GPU-heavy tasks: 20-40% slower (due to GPU-memory bottlenecks)
  • Battery life: 10-20% less (higher power draw)
Obviously, battery life doesn’t matter in a desktop, but I suspect those buying desktops are more likely to be using applications and workloads that require the highest performance.
 
There actually is a reason to make RAM non-modular - socketed RAM has latency overhead that would significantly reduce performance. Given Apple uses a Unified Memory Architecture, latency needs to be as low as possible.

Since I’m not a RAM/motherboard expert, I asked ChatGPT what the performance hit would be for switching to socketed RAM and this is what it came back with. It’s comparing the M3 series with top-of-the-line socketed RAM. If it’s making a mistake, I would love someone with more knowledge to chime in.

While the exact impact depends on workload, from soldered LPDDR5X to socketed DDR5 SO-DIMM could result in:
  • General computing: 5-10% slower (due to latency and lower bandwidth)
  • Creative workloads (video editing, 3D rendering): 15-30% slower (bandwidth-sensitive tasks)
  • Machine learning & GPU-heavy tasks: 20-40% slower (due to GPU-memory bottlenecks)
  • Battery life: 10-20% less (higher power draw)
Obviously, battery life doesn’t matter in a desktop, but I suspect those buying desktops are more likely to be using applications and workloads that require the highest performance.
The solution already exist.

It is called Low-Power Compression Attached Memory Modules (LPCAMM / LPCAMM2).

product-lpcamm2-hero
 
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There actually is a reason to make RAM non-modular - socketed RAM has latency overhead that would significantly reduce performance. Given Apple uses a Unified Memory Architecture, latency needs to be as low as possible.

Since I’m not a RAM/motherboard expert, I asked ChatGPT what the performance hit would be for switching to socketed RAM and this is what it came back with. It’s comparing the M3 series with top-of-the-line socketed RAM. If it’s making a mistake, I would love someone with more knowledge to chime in.

While the exact impact depends on workload, from soldered LPDDR5X to socketed DDR5 SO-DIMM could result in:
  • General computing: 5-10% slower (due to latency and lower bandwidth)
  • Creative workloads (video editing, 3D rendering): 15-30% slower (bandwidth-sensitive tasks)
  • Machine learning & GPU-heavy tasks: 20-40% slower (due to GPU-memory bottlenecks)
  • Battery life: 10-20% less (higher power draw)
Obviously, battery life doesn’t matter in a desktop, but I suspect those buying desktops are more likely to be using applications and workloads that require the highest performance.
HF electronics is certainly not trivial, and I understand that Apple did a great job in communicating that less and non-upgradable RAM would be better for their users.
There are two flaws here:
1. Non- upgradability means it has to be discharged after use. What's good for the manufacturer is not good for the environment or your wallet.
2. The incremental price the user needs to pay for larger memory are unproportionally higher compared to market price. Again, good for the manufacturer, bad for the user.
3. When you search the web on "unified memory", even the self-proclaimed tech sites mostly quote Apple's marketing messages, directly or in disguise.
If you are interested, here is my analysis as electronic engineer:
a) "unified" - for the user - mainly means "less". Before "unified", i.e. "separate", there was memory for CPU and memory for GPU. The GPU for example has massive memory for textures. So that's basically gone, respectively Apple never really had much of that anyway.
What was in 4GB sitting on Apple's GPU card is now a 4GB part of the precious unified memory. And if you had 16GB RAM for the CPU before and now have 16GB unified, you actually only have 12GB for the CPU as 4GB are used by the GPU (provided you needed/used 4GB in the first place).
b) The latency is mostly in the chips themselves, not in the connection. If you look at DDR RAM Chips, they require a massive number of clock cycles until they can provide the data. Clocking them with a 10 times higher clock speed mostly means they will require 10 times more clock cycles until they deliver the data. Proof: see DDR4 vs DDR5, nearly double the clock speed but a meager performance increase.
c) No doubt a connector will somewhat decrease the speed of the RAM. However, looking at the system performance, it may mean that a certain task may take 2:10 minutes instead of 2:05. In the larger picture, the performance claim you are making is simply far fetched. Looking at the M4 mini, a SSD speed of 3GBps is pathetic compared to what typical non-Apple SSDs can achieve. You want to make anyone believe that socketed RAM would make a difference?
 
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HF electronics is certainly not trivial, and I understand that Apple did a great job in communicating that less and non-upgradable RAM would be better for their users.
There are two flaws here:
1. Non- upgradability means it has to be discharged after use. What's good for the manufacturer is not good for the environment or your wallet.
2. The incremental price the user needs to pay for larger memory are unproportionally higher compared to market price. Again, good for the manufacturer, bad for the user.
3. When you search the web on "unified memory", even the self-proclaimed tech sites mostly quote Apple's marketing messages, directly or in disguise.
If you are interested, here is my analysis as electronic engineer:
a) "unified" - for the user - mainly means "less". Before "unified", i.e. "separate", there was memory for CPU and memory for GPU. The GPU for example has massive memory for textures. So that's basically gone, respectively Apple never really had much of that anyway.
What was in 4GB sitting on Apple's GPU card is now a 4GB part of the precious unified memory. And if you had 16GB RAM for the CPU before and now have 16GB unified, you actually only have 12GB for the CPU as 4GB are used by the GPU (provided you needed/used 4GB in the first place).
b) The latency is mostly in the chips themselves, not in the connection. If you look at DDR RAM Chips, they require a massive number of clock cycles until they can provide the data. Clocking them with a 10 times higher clock speed mostly means they will require 10 times more clock cycles until they deliver the data. Proof: see DDR4 vs DDR5, nearly double the clock speed but a meager performance increase.
c) No doubt a connector will somewhat decrease the speed of the RAM. However, looking at the system performance, it may mean that a certain task may take 2:10 minutes instead of 2:05. In the larger picture, the performance claim you are making is simply far fetched. Looking at the M4 mini, a SSD speed of 3GBps is pathetic compared to what typical non-Apple SSDs can achieve. You want to make anyone believe that socketed RAM would make a difference?
I'm trying to get my head around this too. That memory bandwidth is brag worthy on paper. In a practical sense however i don't see many situations where it could actually make that much difference, especially when it's limited to a smaller size like 16gb. Granted my understanding of how Gen AI works is not sufficient but things like machine learning and behavioural economics calculations would flood that much memory and be paging to a rather slow SSD which makes it feel like the benefit would quickly be superseded.

I'm generally a pc person (windows, bsd and linux). Despite the popular opinion out there and the claims i can't see that the mac is noticeable faster than my main pc, despite my PC still using DDR4 ram and having a 2 generation old CPU. Id say my mini is largely on par with the PC. With the PC sometimes being quicker and the mac sometimes being quicker but its negligble. I've compiled code, run complex database queries, rendered 3d models, ran large data simulations and just performed general use and all in all im happy with both. If I had to make a call I'd say my pc feels more consistent in its speed and generally snappier, but that could come down to bias. We're talking a handful of seconds either way over a 2-5 min workloads. It's a not a fair comparison as my pc cost about 5 or 6 times the Mac but I highly doubt the higher end mac's would show a huge difference and a Mac even close to my PC's spec would be well over $10k.

The one area i think maybe it has made a significant positive difference is the integrated gpu side. Admittedly this mac has done substantially better than i expected at playing games, to the point where it performs better than any integrated gpu I've seen before. My whole approach of telling my kids if it could run their game they could play it has backfired.

Whilst i am surprised I have been able to do what I've been able to with 16gb RAM, I wish I had more. If for no other reason than your point about GPU allocated RAM. My PC has 64gb system ram and 24gb GPU memory.

Ultimately I'm keen to hear from others where this bandwidth actually excels in real life scenarios. My current conclusion is that in the laptop space this is a step change. A very efficient design that performs well. In the desktop space, unless i had Mac specific software i needed to run (which I know many folk do) i don't think it's a game changer. I love the efficiency and hope x86 takes notice. However at this stage I'd happily trade off the on paper performance difference for user upgradable ram/storage as like @USB3foriMac said i suspect in the upcoming 2-3 years thats the bit ill be wishing to change. That CPU is probably good enough for the next 5 years.
 
how do you think the gpu works?
I understand the gpu uses the integrated ram and that benefits from the higher throughput of 273gb/s. I also understand this is a lot less than the 1008gb/s a dedicated top end (last gen) does.

That's a lot larger than the delta quad channel ddr 5 6400 has (~200gb/s). I heard 7200 is going to have ~230gb/s which will close that gap.

So what we are saying is the primary benefit of the integrated ram is for gpu processing?

Edit: Or is the point that it is rather good at most things and when you factor in its a very efficient, small device it just ends up being a fantastic package? Because i agree with that. I'm kust trying to get my head around if I missed something as there is a *lot* of hype around the M4's.
 
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I understand the gpu uses the integrated ram and that benefits from the higher throughput of 273gb/s. I also understand this is a lot less than the 1008gb/s a dedicated top end (last gen) does.

That's a lot larger than the delta quad channel ddr 5 6400 has (~200gb/s). I heard 7200 is going to have ~230gb/s which will close that gap.

So what we are saying is the primary benefit of the integrated ram is for gpu processing?

Edit: Or is the point that it is rather good at most things and when you factor in its a very efficient, small device it just ends up being a fantastic package? Because i agree with that. I'm kust trying to get my head around if I missed something as there is a *lot* of hype around the M4's.
Like you, I feel my mini PC with a Ryzen 7 (7840HS) feels faster than the M4 mini,and the M4 mini feels unsignificantly faster than my old iMac 2011 w SSD. Sequoia feels same clumsy to me as High Sierra which I'm having on my iMac. My impression is, nothing much changed, or better: nothing much improved.

That's my own experience, and I'm comparing this with Linux Pop!_OS which I'm running on the mini PC.

My use case for Mac is photo managing. I have a photo library with nearly 1T of photos. I'm only hobby photographer, so I'm not using advanced photo editing tools.
While the "photos" app gives me face recognition, everything else is just rudimentary, and I expect so much more coming from the old 'photo" app on iMac. The import was struggle, face recognition is better, but with false positives that are extremely difficult to rectify. And there are more things that bother me.

Why Mac if I struggle so much with it? Because I still haven't found a reliable (!) Photo management app in Linux with face recognition and some more features.

So again, please forgo bashing me, many of you mentioned many times that you are very happy with the machine and it's great and faster and all of that, and I acknowledge that. Soo all good here, and even for my use case Mac is the best option right now, even though I'm not satisfied.
Edit: typo "u significantly"
 
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Wrong thread.

Actually, the last few posts have suffered from topic drift.

To keep the thread on topic:

Has anyone tried to replace their upgraded SSD card with the original SSD card to verify it still works?
 
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Has anyone tried to replace their upgraded SSD card with the original SSD card to verify it still works?
Why would anyone want to do this in the first place? If you can replace a 256G with a 2T, you can certainly replace a 2T with a 256G. You can also buy a replacement 2T if your 2TB is defect.
This thread talks about Apple offering replacement SSDs for self-upgrade/repair in the Apple self-repair shop.
This user (top comment) confirms you can buy a 2TB SSD even if your original configuration does not contain this part. So this is the same as buying 3rd party.
Edit: Apple's "Repair manual" steps to replace SSD: https://support.apple.com/en-us/121003
 
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2TB drive installed!
IMG_3357.jpeg


Screenshot 2025-02-18 at 9.45.00 PM.png


Well, we've hit trouble in paradise. Worked well for a bit after install and DFU, but when I was transferring files from my external drive the Mini just went blank and white light started flashing in front. Tried another DFU restore and this is what I got...
Screenshot 2025-02-19 at 6.38.44 AM.png



Aliexpress contacted and they've provided me a free return label for a refund. I guess I'll try again, maybe just got a bum drive. The original 256gb SSD got my mini working again, but had to do another DFU so I had to reinstall macOS. You can't just swap in the original drive and expect it to boot...
 
2TB drive installed!
View attachment 2483800

View attachment 2483801

Well, we've hit trouble in paradise. Worked well for a bit after install and DFU, but when I was transferring files from my external drive the Mini just went blank and white light started flashing in front. Tried another DFU restore and this is what I got...View attachment 2483799


Aliexpress contacted and they've provided me a free return label for a refund. I guess I'll try again, maybe just got a bum drive. The original 256gb SSD got my mini working again, but had to do another DFU so I had to reinstall macOS. You can't just swap in the original drive and expect it to boot...

Just a bum drive I'd bet

My 2TB from Ali has been flawless for weeks now
 
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The original 256gb SSD got my mini working again, but had to do another DFU so I had to reinstall macOS. You can't just swap in the original drive and expect it to boot...

Thanks for this tidbit, I was looking for this data point.
 
2TB drive installed!
View attachment 2483800

View attachment 2483801

Well, we've hit trouble in paradise. Worked well for a bit after install and DFU, but when I was transferring files from my external drive the Mini just went blank and white light started flashing in front. Tried another DFU restore and this is what I got...View attachment 2483799


Aliexpress contacted and they've provided me a free return label for a refund. I guess I'll try again, maybe just got a bum drive. The original 256gb SSD got my mini working again, but had to do another DFU so I had to reinstall macOS. You can't just swap in the original drive and expect it to boot...
Sorry to hear. How long did it run for before having problems?
 
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