Waiting for 2021 MBP

[TheRealAlex]

The pricing tiers will definitely be interesting, especially when you consider the 14" and 16" will probably both use the M1-X. Personally, I'm thinking (and hoping) Apple does something a little more simple with upgrades so the lineup looks like this:

- 13" Air: M1 (8 core CPU / 7 core GPU). Can upgrade SSD, RAM to 16 and extra GPU core.

- 13" Pro: M1 (8 core CPU / 8 core GPU). Can upgrade SSD, RAM to 16)

- 14" Pro: M1-X (12 core CPU / 16 core GPU). Can upgrade SSD, RAM to 32)

- 16" Pro: M1-X (16 core CPU / either a 24 core GPU or a 16 core w/ Apple Dedicated GPU). Can upgrade SSD, RAM to 64

Well done can you do a list with pricing tiers?

 

[TheRealAlex]

I envision both MacBook sizes will use the same set of SoCs for economy of scale, maybe an 'M1Z' (see below) will be exclusive to the 16" similar to how dedicated graphics currently are, depending on how much heat it produces/ what the thermal envelope of the 14" is. I think your M1X core counts might be slightly optimistic at this stage.

M1X options with a 12(?) core GPU, probably a 30-35 watt TDP:
M1X - 10 cores (6 firestorm, 4 ice storm) - corresponding to the 6 core i7
M1X - 12 cores (8 firestorm, 4 ice storm) - corresponding to the 8 core i9

And at least one M1Z option with an upgraded 24(?) core GPU and likely a higher TDP to facilitate that:
M1Z - 12 cores (8 firestorm, 4 ice storm) - upgraded graphics option

They've already established with the iPads that 'Z' processors are graphics enhanced versions of 'X' processors, so the logic is in place for this already. I don't think they will simplify the upgrade tree too much, plenty of extra options are a good way of getting people to dig deeper in their pockets and raise average selling prices (which is an important metric in their financial reports). Assuming those three chip options each have 16, 32, 64 GB RAM options, that's 9 chip SKUs, for two MacBook Pros and likely a high-end Mac mini. They could trim it a bit by making 64GB exclusive to the M1Z.

I’m really gonna wait for M2X, and LPDDR5 RAM

 

[Metrosey]

I’m really gonna wait for M2X, and LPDDR5 RAM

Well you are in the wrong section good sir, you need the ‘waiting for 2022 MBP’.

 

[Falhófnir]

I’m really gonna wait for M2X, and LPDDR5 RAM

Depending on when these launch they might come straight in on M2X. It makes little sense to launch these in October based on Apple’s 14th gen chip architecture (firestorm & ice storm) when the iPhones will have introduced the 15th gen a month earlier. We will see.

 

[TheRealAlex]

Depending on when these launch they might come straight in on M2X. It makes little sense to launch these in October based on Apple’s 14th gen chip architecture (firestorm & ice storm) when the iPhones will have introduced the 15th gen a month earlier. We will see.

Brilliant. Same chip just rebrand it as M2X.

 

[Appletoni]

The new MacBook Air will be much better and the MacBook Pro will be of course better than Air.
Speaking about the Pro it looks like we will see:

-16 and 18 inch pros
-magsafe
-some different sd slots
-much more ports
-that’s why a new case
-which has better airflow means better cooling
-and improved cooling fan means quieter fan with more power
-improved cooling system
-wifi 6e
-5G
-bluetooth 5.2
-mini led
-1000 nits brightness
-360hz
-5120x2880 resolution (not 360hz at 5120x2880 resolution)
-pcie 5.0
-thunderbolt 4
-both: face id and touch id
-edge to edge display
-1440p camera
-improved audio
-touch bar, because it’s in the pro for the professionals
-up to 8 tb ssd, same reason
-up to 64 gb ram ddr5, same reason
-16 gpu cores
-32 neural cores
-(12 to 16) + 4 cpu cores

It looks very good but I would be more happy about 1 tb ram and 20 tb ssd and 32 gpu cores and 64 cpu cores.

 

[UltimateSyn]

The new MacBook Air will be much better and the MacBook Pro will be of course better than Air.
Speaking about the Pro it looks like we will see:

-16 and 18 inch pros
-magsafe
-some different sd slots
-much more ports
-that’s why a new case
-which has better airflow means better cooling
-and improved cooling fan means quieter fan with more power
-improved cooling system
-wifi 6e
-5G
-bluetooth 5.2
-mini led
-1000 nits brightness
-360hz
-5120x2880 resolution (not 360hz at 5120x2880 resolution)
-pcie 5.0
-thunderbolt 4
-both: face id and touch id
-edge to edge display
-1440p camera
-improved audio
-touch bar, because it’s in the pro for the professionals
-up to 8 tb ssd, same reason
-up to 64 gb ram ddr5, same reason
-16 gpu cores
-32 neural cores
-(12 to 16) + 4 cpu cores

It looks very good but I would be more happy about 1 tb ram and 20 tb ssd and 32 gpu cores and 64 cpu cores.

Is this a joke? I hope this is a joke. If you’re expecting all that out of a next-gen MBP you’re going to be very sorely disappointed.

 

[Metrosey]

Is this a joke? I hope this is a joke. If you’re expecting all that out of a next-gen MBP you’re going to be very sorely disappointed.

Yeah it is a joke

 

[Appletoni]

No it’s not.

 

[Appletoni]

Case part:
-16 and 18 inch pros
-magsafe
-some different sd slots
-much more ports
-thunderbolt 4
-that’s why a new case
-which has better airflow means better cooling
-and improved cooling fan means quieter fan with more power
-improved cooling system
-edge to edge display
-both: face id and touch id
-1440p camera

Mobile connectivity part:
-5G
-wifi 6e
-bluetooth 5.2

Display part:
-mini led
-1000 nits brightness
-360hz
-5120x2880 resolution (not 360hz at 5120x2880 resolution)

Pro not Air part:
-improved audio
-touch bar, because it’s in the pro for the professionals

M2 part:
-pcie 5.0
-up to 8 tb ssd
-up to 64 gb ram ddr5
-16 gpu cores
-32 neural cores
-(12 to 16) + 4 cpu cores

My part:
It looks very good but I would be more happy about 1 tb ram and 20 tb ssd and 32 gpu cores and 64 cpu cores.
I really need 20 tb ssd. The other 3 things can be very high.

So let’s talk about what you believe is true or not.

 

[liriel_]

Hey, I've tried my best to catch up. I'm waiting for Macbook Pro 14 and I don't see consensus around when I might be able to get one.
Also the re-design thing. What are the leaks, will the new design be introduced as well?

 

[Falhófnir]

Hey, I've tried my best to catch up. I'm waiting for Macbook Pro 14 and I don't see consensus around when I might be able to get one.
Also the re-design thing. What are the leaks, will the new design be introduced as well?

Second half of the year is the rumour, though that could mean anything from July to November, and there are conflicting accounts. They are meant to look something more like the Razer blade, flat top and bottom and with some ports added back. No Touch Bar has also been mentioned.

 

[liriel_]

Interesting! Thank you, F. I'm also glad some ports are back! Overall, MB please deliver!

 

[Appletoni]

Google: Intel news.
After Apple MacBook Pro M1 they decided to catch up.
You can buy Intel in the second half of the year 2021.

+20% single core performance
+100% multi core performance
Thunderbolt 4
Wifi 6e
PCIE 5.0
DDR5 RAM
(DDR5 is up to 112% faster)
(DDR5 can be overclocked)
(From DDR4 to DDR5 means: 8 gb changed to 32 gb. 16 gb changed to 64 gb. 32 gb changed to 128 gb...)

AMD is doing the same.

Apple M1 is second place at single core performance.
Apple M1 reached only 50% in multi core compared to Intel.
Means: This will change a lot and not in favor of Apple.
To catch up with this new Intel (and AMD) in multi core, the M1 will need 16 power cores + 4 high efficiency cores.

= Now with new informations we can be sure that Thunderbolt 4, Wifi 6e, PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 RAM will come.
MacBook Air with 8 power cores and MacBook Pro with 12 power cores (optional 16 power cores).

Google: DDR5 RAM 512 gb

 

[UltimateSyn]

So let’s talk about what you believe is true or not.

*sigh* Okay, I’ll play. Here’s what I think is realistic from your list of expectations:

Case part:
-16 and 18 inch pros No, 14 and 16-inch variants have been consistently reported over the last 18 months
-magsafe
-some different sd slots One SD card slot
-much more ports
-thunderbolt 4
-that’s why a new case
-which has better airflow means better cooling
-and improved cooling fan means quieter fan with more power
-improved cooling system
-edge to edge display They will likely keep some sort of thin bezels around the display. It won’t be truly ‘edge-to-edge’
-both: face id and Touch ID The FaceID module would be too thick to put in a MacBook lid, and there’s no need for them to spend the time and money engineering that since the MacBooks already have biometric authentication with the TouchID sensor. They’ll keep that
-1440p camera Maybe, but remember that this is the company that has had 720p laptop webcams for a loooooooong time. We’ll be lucky to get 1080p

Mobile connectivity part:
-5G This level of mobile connectivity will be saved for the iPads
-wifi 6e
-bluetooth 5.2

Display part:
-mini led
-1000 nits brightness If you mean peak brightness, sure, but it won’t have 1000 nits sustained
-360hz Probably the least likely on this list. There is no way they would go above the 120Hz of the ProMotion iPad Pros... No practical applications that make it worth the power draw, and I don’t even think they could get panels capable of producing that refresh rate at any sort of reasonable cost
-5120x2880 resolution (not 360hz at 5120x2880 resolution) Apple has never increased PPI beyond their definition of Retina. Their whole point in a Retina Display is that you can’t discern between different pixels, so there’s no point to add more. The PPI will remain the same as it is today (226 PPI, 3072x1920 in the 16” MBP)

Pro not Air part:
-improved audio
-touch bar, because it’s in the pro for the professionals Touch Bar is reported to get axed

M2 part:
-pcie 5.0
-up to 8 tb ssd
-up to 64 gb ram ddr5
-16 gpu cores
-32 neural cores
-(12 to 16) + 4 cpu cores

My part:
It looks very good but I would be more happy about 1 tb ram (Are you kidding?) and 20 tb ssd (I wouldn’t expect much more than the current 8TB) and 32 gpu cores and 64 cpu cores.
I really need 20 tb ssd. The other 3 things can be very high.

 

[Appletoni]

I was talking about the Pro, not the Air.
This time we will have a difference between Pro and Air.
Apple want to earn some money It could cost up to ~8k instead of ~2,5k.

14 inch Air and 16 inch Pro.
But there are also rumors about a 18 inch Pro for the high end people.

My mistake I meant some different sd cards - with one slot.
Hopefully Apple will take the newest SDUC express.

Maybe we will see first thin bezels around the display and later edge to edge or now edge to edge but only for the MacBook Pro. - We have a lot of rumors about an edge to edge display.

Face ID, we saw the code inside the beta of macOS Big Sur, which makes Face ID possible. It works even with a corona mask. Touch ID will stay - corona pandemic.

Better camera will be available. - corona pandemic - home office / outdoor.
The people and companies would like to see even a 4k camera inside the MacBook.

5G can’t be saved for the iPads.
Other companies already have notebooks with 5G.
And we need it - corona pandemic and after that too.

MacBook Pro with Touch Bar will stay and the Touch Bar will be expanded and improved.

I can use 1 tb ram, even more, it would be good, the old Mac Pro can use up to 1.5 to ram.
I can use 20 tb SSD but we will see only up to 8 tb SSD for the Pro and up to 4 tb SSD for the Air.
I hope to buy 2x 8 tb SSD MacBook in the future. It would be a big difference to other windows and... notebooks.

 

[Appletoni]

Brightness avg.

1. MSI Creator 17 A10SGS = 952 cd/m² - It has Mini-LED
2. HP ZBook Fury 15 G7 = 674 cd/m²
3. Lenovo ThinkPad P15s Gen 1 = 608 cd/m²

7. Apple iPad Pro 11 2020 = 585 cd/m²

15. Apple MacBook = 491 cd/m²

Hz
MacBook with only 60Hz is nothing.
iOS and iPadOS apps can be used, so we already have a lot of applications for 120Hz and more.
Many developers are waiting for 120Hz MacBook to slightly improve their MacBook applications (and games) from 60Hz to 120Hz or more. It depends on Apple first.
We have a lot of companies with 240Hz, 280Hz, 300Hz, 360Hz notebooks.
If Apple decides to wait longer, they will be the last company on earth which is increasing Hz from 60 to... and especially to 360Hz.
MacBooks are no longer only for professional business people. MacBooks are more and more used by gamers and due to corona for every work from home. = Ultimate device.

Resolution/PPI
Other have a much higher resolution and ppi.
To say we are right because we have our retina definition and the other are wrong doesn’t make sense.
All the other companies are increasing resolution and ppi ever time when possible.
The retina definition from apple works only if you have a 1. normal viewing distance and 2. at least an average viewing strength. 1. If it’s not the case, the definition doesn’t work. 2. If your viewing strength is above average, you will see a lot of differences.

1. Asus ROG Flow X13 = 338 PPI

26. MacBook Pro = 227 PPI

 

[Metrosey]

*sigh* Okay, I’ll play. Here’s what I think is realistic from your list of expectations:

Case part:
-16 and 18 inch pros No, 14 and 16-inch variants have been consistently reported over the last 18 months
-magsafe
-some different sd slots One SD card slot
-much more ports
-thunderbolt 4
-that’s why a new case
-which has better airflow means better cooling
-and improved cooling fan means quieter fan with more power
-improved cooling system
-edge to edge display They will likely keep some sort of thin bezels around the display. It won’t be truly ‘edge-to-edge’
-both: face id and Touch ID The FaceID module would be too thick to put in a MacBook lid, and there’s no need for them to spend the time and money engineering that since the MacBooks already have biometric authentication with the TouchID sensor. They’ll keep that
-1440p camera Maybe, but remember that this is the company that has had 720p laptop webcams for a loooooooong time. We’ll be lucky to get 1080p

Mobile connectivity part:
-5G This level of mobile connectivity will be saved for the iPads
-wifi 6e
-bluetooth 5.2

Display part:
-mini led
-1000 nits brightness If you mean peak brightness, sure, but it won’t have 1000 nits sustained
-360hz Probably the least likely on this list. There is no way they would go above the 120Hz of the ProMotion iPad Pros... No practical applications that make it worth the power draw, and I don’t even think they could get panels capable of producing that refresh rate at any sort of reasonable cost
-5120x2880 resolution (not 360hz at 5120x2880 resolution) Apple has never increased PPI beyond their definition of Retina. Their whole point in a Retina Display is that you can’t discern between different pixels, so there’s no point to add more. The PPI will remain the same as it is today (226 PPI, 3072x1920 in the 16” MBP)

Pro not Air part:
-improved audio
-touch bar, because it’s in the pro for the professionals Touch Bar is reported to get axed

M2 part:
-pcie 5.0
-up to 8 tb ssd
-up to 64 gb ram ddr5
-16 gpu cores
-32 neural cores
-(12 to 16) + 4 cpu cores

My part:
It looks very good but I would be more happy about 1 tb ram (Are you kidding?) and 20 tb ssd (I wouldn’t expect much more than the current 8TB) and 32 gpu cores and 64 cpu cores.
I really need 20 tb ssd. The other 3 things can be very high.

Oh you took the bait, my my, I’m sorry your screen (or keyboard) had to endure those few minutes of taping

 

[UltimateSyn]

Oh you took the bait, my my, I’m sorry your screen (or keyboard) had to endure those few minutes of taping

Honestly I do have a habit of taking the bait, no matter which forum I’m in. I guess deep down I enjoy it ?

 

[StrollerEd]

Honestly I do have a habit of taking the bait, no matter which forum I’m in. I guess deep down I enjoy it ?

I thought you did well on that.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Case part:
-16 and 18 inch pros
-magsafe
-some different sd slots
-much more ports
-thunderbolt 4
-that’s why a new case
-which has better airflow means better cooling
-and improved cooling fan means quieter fan with more power
-improved cooling system
-edge to edge display
-both: face id and touch id
-1440p camera

Mobile connectivity part:
-5G
-wifi 6e
-bluetooth 5.2

Display part:
-mini led
-1000 nits brightness
-360hz
-5120x2880 resolution (not 360hz at 5120x2880 resolution)

Pro not Air part:
-improved audio
-touch bar, because it’s in the pro for the professionals

M2 part:
-pcie 5.0
-up to 8 tb ssd
-up to 64 gb ram ddr5
-16 gpu cores
-32 neural cores
-(12 to 16) + 4 cpu cores

My part:
It looks very good but I would be more happy about 1 tb ram and 20 tb ssd and 32 gpu cores and 64 cpu cores.
I really need 20 tb ssd. The other 3 things can be very high.

So let’s talk about what you believe is true or not.

> waiting on the 2051 mbp

 

[prospervic]

Anyone having second thoughts about the M1X Macbook Pro ?

I am having Doubts like

M2X will be much better.
OLED displays

This is probably wise. I have purchased several 1st-Gen Apple products, only to experience serious buyer's remorse once the 2nd version appeared. (Examples: 2nd iPod touch gained much-needed physical volume controls; 2nd Retina MacBook Pro gained 2x faster SSD, significantly longer battery life and the then brand-new Wifi-N).

Apple rightly celebrates it's triumph in the first version of a new product, but they also always have some compelling new innovation (as you mentioned -- M2X or OLED) already planned for the 2nd Gen.

For this reason, plus the fact that the already falling resale value of my 16" MBP will likely be laughably low by the summer (or fall) when the M1X MBP 16 comes out, I'll just wait for 2022.

 

[Metrosey]

This is probably wise. I have purchased several 1st-Gen Apple products, only to experience serious buyer's remorse once the 2nd version appeared. (Examples: 2nd iPod touch gained much-needed physical volume controls; 2nd Retina MacBook Pro gained 2x faster SSD, significantly longer battery life and the then brand-new Wifi-N).

Apple rightly celebrates it's triumph in the first version of a new product, but they also always have some compelling new innovation (as you mentioned -- M2X or OLED) already planned for the 2nd Gen.

For this reason, plus the fact that the already falling resale value of my 16" MBP will likely be laughably low by the summer (or fall) when the M1X MBP 16 comes out, I'll just wait for 2022.

Alright, well technically the M1X is a second generation chip. As they didn’t release at the same time, the M1X can have baked-in improvements. It’s similar for Intel chips in the past, for example, Haswell and Haswell-E had some differences, such as one had DDR3 and one had DDR4 under the same architecture.

I’m sure Apple will decide what improvements they want to make and what improvements they will keep for the future.

Apple may not even release a 2022 MacBook Pro 16 inch, no one knows yet. Next, Apple will have compelling reason for you to upgrade in 2023 from the 2022 MacBook. I expect Apple pays big money to a psychology department within Apple that works out the best release schedules and innovation gaps so to make consumers want to keep upgrading every year.

At the end of the day, it’s not a new product but a new CPU. I think battery life will remain the same for the next few years as Apple normally offsets any efficiency gain for more performance. Apple can’t increase battery size either, so unless Apple finds a new battery material, significant improvements with battery life are unlikely for the future.

 

[cool11]

I am seriously thinking of buying the new mbp 16' with apple silicon, whenever it appears on the market.
But I have doubts too, about 1'st generation of products.

The problem for me, it is that the previous years, apple seems to have being moved, towards a yearly refresh (or more!) of each mac.
Was this because of intel's own problems that really affected apple's market cycles?
Or it was a councious decision from apple, made by themselves?

I am willing to wait for a 2nd generation of mbp 16', but it would be nice to know that apple will return to a two refreshes per year for most macs.
I could wait till spring 2022, but waiting untill December 2022, it is too much.

 

[Falhófnir]

I am seriously thinking of buying the new mbp 16' with apple silicon, whenever it appears on the market.
But I have doubts too, about 1'st generation of products.

The problem for me, it is that the previous years, apple seems to have being moved, towards a yearly refresh (or more!) of each mac.
Was this because of intel's own problems that really affected apple's market cycles?
Or it was a councious decision from apple, made by themselves?

I am willing to wait for a 2nd generation of mbp 16', but it would be nice to know that apple will return to a two refreshes per year for most macs.
I could wait till spring 2022, but waiting untill December 2022, it is too much.

The days of twice yearly refreshes seem to be done (as a rule). The last time for the MBP was in 2013, excluding 2020 with one Intel and one Apple Silicon release or years when the 2 and 4 port variants got refreshed at different times of the year. I would say expect regular once yearly updates at most, and possibly intervals of over 12 months like the iPad Pro.

First gen hiccups will pale in comparison to the problems the touchbar models had year after year is the way I see it. You would hope all of the problems caused in 2016-19 have been taken into account for the new design so hopefully they will start out solid and go from strength to strength! The 16” is a robust machine and is significantly different to what it replaces so they can get it right the first time