MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[Aldaris]

Where's any indication that's where Apple's headed? The fact that they decided not to refresh the gold Watch editions is plain enough evidence they aren't.

I'll reevaluate my stance, based on what is released first- new seasonal spring watchbands (similar to last spring https://9to5mac.com/2016/03/21/apple-launches-variety-of-new-apple-watch-models-and-band-colors/) "because this is our new vibrant spring collection" or a Mac Pro.

I am confident in my current position.

 

[Jaho101]

The Apple fashion stuff makes sense when you think about the fact that they're also going to be selling AR glasses soon.

 

[zephonic]

I sent Tim a note to check out the Mac Pro 2 concept page.
http://pascaleggert.de/macpro.html

That's pretty cool! I'd buy that, but you know the base model would be $5000...

 

[Dreadnought]

The Apple fashion stuff makes sense when you think about the fact that they're also going to be selling AR glasses soon.

Well I don't understand it. They changed there name from Apple Computer to Apple a couple years back for the sole reason that they where going to make more peripheals (or whatever you write that). So we're now a couple years later, productline is still the same, only thing is they are discarding the peripheals (Airport, ACD). So, what's next??

 

[G-News]

Tbh I think Ahrendts is the bigger problem than Tim. I always thought it was a bad choice to put a fashion lady from a mediocre fashion label in charge of the world's most well known tech company's marketing. It's a bit like asking a vegan to market McDonalds.

 

[mathpunk]

Back on subject, I noticed that Crucial just recently started selling DDR4-2666 ECC memory and it is in stock. Why would that be? There are no Xeon processors that support that yet, so this must be for Skylake-W and Skylake-EP. Maybe their release has been moved up and a nMP refresh is around the corner...

 

[AidenShaw]

Back on subject, I noticed that Crucial just recently started selling DDR4-2666 ECC memory and it is in stock. Why would that be? There are no Xeon processors that support that yet, so this must be for Skylake-W and Skylake-EP. Maybe their release has been moved up and a nMP refresh is around the corner...

This pretty much explains the reasoning: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10917/crucial-announces-ddr42666-dimms-for-upcoming-server-platforms

Note near the end "However some OEMs offer Broadwell-EP machines that can officially support DDR4-2666 for lower memory density servers".

 

[Mago]

"However some OEMs offer Broadwell-EP machines that can officially support DDR4-2666 for lower memory density servers"

Technically a Mac Pro is a lower density 'server' loaded with two GPUs...

 

[mathpunk]

This pretty much explains the reasoning: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10917/crucial-announces-ddr42666-dimms-for-upcoming-server-platforms

Note near the end "However some OEMs offer Broadwell-EP machines that can officially support DDR4-2666 for lower memory density servers".

Interesting. The article only talks about 4gb, 8gb and 16gb modules, but Crucial also lists 32gb and 64gb DDR4-2666 LRDIMMs. I believe what's meant by "lower memory density" is only one DIMM per channel (but I could be wrong about this).

 

[Jack Burton]

Do we think Apple is waiting for AMD zen at this point? CES came and went without much from AMD, But intel officially released Kaby Lake. If zen is as affordable as what sites are saying, I could see Apple going with a significantly cheaper chip from AMD and keeping the same price.

Gah, both my old PC and my old iMac are starting to go. Come on Apple, update something.

 

[G-News]

No TB support in Ryzen, as far as we know at least, says no-go for Apple for now.

 

[Jack Burton]

No TB support in Ryzen, as far as we know at least, says no-go for Apple for now.

Ugh. Come on, AMD. WTF.

 

[kennyisalive]

Tbh I think Ahrendts is the bigger problem than Tim. I always thought it was a bad choice to put a fashion lady from a mediocre fashion label in charge of the world's most well known tech company's marketing. It's a bit like asking a vegan to market McDonalds.

Or asking a pepsi marketer to sell computers

 

[Mago]

[doublepost=1484425556][/doublepost]

No TB support in Ryzen, as far as we know at least, says no-go for Apple for now.

technically inaccurate, any system (even ARM based) as long has 2 or 4 PCIe3 lines available is capable to connect to Intel's Alpine Ridge controller, TB3 system its seen as just another bus muxer.

I think you'll begin to see AMD mobo with thunderbolt 3 long after when TB3 becomes 'a must have', even today almost every new intel Z270 mobo dont have TB3.

 

[G-News]

[doublepost=1484425556][/doublepost]
technically inaccurate, any system (even ARM based) as long has 2 or 4 PCIe3 lines available is capable to connect to Intel's Alpine Ridge controller, TB3 system its seen as just another bus muxer.

I think you'll begin to see AMD mobo with thunderbolt 3 long after when TB3 becomes 'a must have', even today almost every new intel Z270 mobo dont have TB3.

True, I just don't see Apple using an extra chip in future anymore seeing how they try and save every square milimeter of pcb space they possibly can. If using Ryzen in a Mac Pro means having to add an Alpine ridge chip on the mobo, it's not happening under Timmy's and Jony's watch. Not when they can get it for free using Intel chips instead.
[doublepost=1484432509][/doublepost]

Or asking a pepsi marketer to sell computers

Exactly, and we know how that one played out.

 

[Stacc]

True, I just don't see Apple using an extra chip in future anymore seeing how they try and save every square milimeter of pcb space they possibly can. If using Ryzen in a Mac Pro means having to add an Alpine ridge chip on the mobo, it's not happening under Timmy's and Jony's watch. Not when they can get it for free using Intel chips instead.
[doublepost=1484432509][/doublepost]
Exactly, and we know how that one played out.

Alpine ridge is not integrated into any chipset, AMD or Intel so it requires a separate chip regardless of the platform. The question of whether or an AMD system can have thunderbolt 3 is not a technical one, but a licensing one. Thunderbolt has only ever been on intel systems, so it may be up to intel whether to license the technology.

 

[Jack Burton]

Alpine ridge is not integrated into any chipset, AMD or Intel so it requires a separate chip regardless of the platform. The question of whether or an AMD system can have thunderbolt 3 is not a technical one, but a licensing one. Thunderbolt has only ever been on intel systems, so it may be up to intel whether to license the technology.

Would intel license it to Apple if they use AMD chips?

 

[AidenShaw]

Would intel license it to Apple if they use AMD chips?

Karma would suggest not.

If Apple switched to AMD in a significant way, one would expect that the relationship would sour rather quickly.

• No more early access to minor revisions (although this has been very rare)
• No more deep discounts
• No more preferred access to top bins

 

[koyoot]

Karma would suggest not.

If Apple switched to AMD in a significant way, one would expect that the relationship would sour rather quickly.

• No more early access to minor revisions (although this has been very rare)
• No more deep discounts
• No more preferred access to top bins

Not, if Intel from this switch also get something significant.

And remember the deal between AMD and Intel about Graphics IP? Its a business deal. It contains more than only cash, and graphics patents.

I will give one clue: in 2018-2019 Intel might change from their own graphics IP, to AMD Navi GPUs, for their integrated GPUs. As has been said previously: Intel and AMD work together on connecting the CPU and GPU from different vendors together with MCM package. For Navi, already there is hints that the GPUs from this architecture might be produced in... Intel fabs. For Intel its best case scenario. They have to feed the fabs with work, and money, and cut money on other initiatives. One of them would be saving money on... GPU software department, because all drivers would be dependent on AMD. As for feeding the fabs, it doesn't matter for who Intel manufactures. It does matter that they do it at all. Wafers are sold, money made. And for AMD - they get possibly best process in the industry.


Its all rumors. Nothing 100% concrete. But few shoes have dropped in few last months.

As a funniest bit in this context. AMD payed to GlobalFoundries 340 million USD, for settling the WSA amendment, and being able to fab elsewhere than only in GloFo fabs(it was one time penalty).

Intel payed 340 million USD to AMD for the Graphics IP. AMD could've wanted more money for it. But they instead went for other things. And as I have posted previously: One of parts of the deal is discount on Thunderbolt technology, and early access to it, for AMD test platforms.


Again. This is nothing official. Just compilation of what is floating in the silicon industry mixed with official information.

 

[AidenShaw]

It's all rumors.

You should have stopped here.

None of this is even slightly relevant to whether Apple would risk its partnership with Intel by switching to AMD CPUs in a big way.

Think about how ridiculous it is to bring up rumours of Intel licensing ATI IP for GPUs. That's an absurd connection to support that Intel would be OK with Apple buying AMD CPUs instead of Intel CPUs with ATI IP.

It's not an "apples and oranges" logical mistake - it's "kumquats and baleen whales". Any IP licensing agreement between Intel and ATI isn't relevant to Apple switching to AMD CPUs.

 

[koyoot]

You should have stopped here.

None of this is even slightly relevant to whether Apple would risk its partnership with Intel by switching to AMD CPUs in a big way.

Think about how ridiculous it is to bring up rumours of Intel licensing ATI IP for GPUs. That's an absurd connection to support that Intel would be OK with Apple buying AMD CPUs instead of Intel CPUs with ATI IP.

It's not an "apples and oranges" logical mistake - it's "kumquats and baleen whales". Any IP licensing agreement between Intel and ATI isn't relevant to Apple switching to AMD CPUs.

Wafer Supply Agreement Amendment allows AMD to not manufacture only at GlobalFoundries wafers. They can now freely go to Samsung, TSMC and... Intel. Not only for GPUs, but for CPUs, and APUs also. So it is a possibility.

Lets see what happens in the end.

 

[Stacc]

You should have stopped here.

None of this is even slightly relevant to whether Apple would risk its partnership with Intel by switching to AMD CPUs in a big way.

Think about how ridiculous it is to bring up rumours of Intel licensing ATI IP for GPUs. That's an absurd connection to support that Intel would be OK with Apple buying AMD CPUs instead of Intel CPUs with ATI IP.

It's not an "apples and oranges" logical mistake - it's "kumquats and baleen whales". Any IP licensing agreement between Intel and ATI isn't relevant to Apple switching to AMD CPUs.

There have been rumors floating around (and not just on Koyoot's message boards) that Intel could license GPU tech from AMD. The idea isn't crazy. Intel seems to be having problems manufacturing large CPUs with its higher end Iris graphics on 14nm. I don't think the quad core broadwell and skylake chips with iris graphics every shipped in volume. Thats why the new 15" MacBook pro has AMD graphics on all configurations, to make up for lack of a high end Intel configuration.

As for Apple switching to AMD, I am also skeptical. Its too early to tell how competitive Ryzen will be, but its still a tall order for AMD to beat Intel across the board in performance and efficiency. I doubt Apple switches just a couple models, its all or nothing. So AMD would have to have the best mobile chips, which is probably unlikely.

The only advantage AMD likely has is its ability to package a high end GPU on the same package as a CPU. Maybe in the laptops this could allow for more space for batteries to make up for the slightly less efficient processors.

 

[AidenShaw]

Wafer Supply Agreement Amendment allows AMD to not manufacture only at GlobalFoundries wafers. They can now freely go to Samsung, TSMC and... Intel. Not only for GPUs, but for CPUs, and APUs also. So it is a possibility.

Lets see what happens in the end.

Yes, let's see what happens.

Let's see if Intel is happy with the smaller fraction of the CPU value that it gets for an AMD CPU contract-manufactured at an Intel foundry - or if Intel prefers the larger cut that it gets for an Intel-branded CPU.

 

[koyoot]

Want to know why Intel spends more and more on R&D? Because the fabs are consuming most of it. With each smaller node, the manufacturing costs are getting bigger, which I have pointed out many months ago. Ask yourself, why there has been no immense innovation from Intel for years, despite GIGANTIC expenditures on R&D?

Market is shrinking, and they have to compete not only with AMD, but with ARM. And ARM is biggest threat to Intel. Actually maybe most of you do not get it, but ARM is a threat to both Intel and AMD, and x86 architecture. Every possible way Intel can feed the fabs both with work, and with money, is best interest of Intel. Even if it requires allying with their competitor.

Believe me, I am not arguing about this. I am just providing a point of view, for understanding the situation of Intel, and the reasons why Intel may allow in future their fabs to manufacture products for other companies than Intel, itself.

 

[pat500000]

I hate to say this, but it appears Kaby lake is no interest for Apple. Probably for mbp and imac...but other than that...i dunno.