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mikethebigo

macrumors 68020
May 25, 2009
2,382
1,457
Kek.

Nobody has seen the 14 inch https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ROG-Zephyrus-G14/ Asus G14 laptop, eh?

8 core/16 thread Ryzen 4000 series APU alongside RTX 2060 with 120 Hz display in a 14 inch package.

Of course there is possibility of making this happen. Laptops like Razer Stealth are and will be compromised because Intel CPUs are drawing way too much power which hingers the cooling capabilities of ALL Intel CPU based laptops. Look no further than on Apple laptops and how much they throttle.
We should limit our discussion to released, tested, and reviewed laptops. We only know what Asus is advertising at this point. I highly doubt that it will meet the stated battery life, and we don't know yet if there are any other compromises inherent in Ryzen 4000 (we've been through this before, we were told AMD's offerings would be superior to Intel's in the Surface lineup, and they weren't). We don't know the thermal situation either, though it does look pretty beefy from the outer case. Outside of that, I really doubt Apple would produce such a thicc boi for the same reasons as before. They aren't building a gaming laptop, and they're trying to make a mobile productivity machine that has the right balance of different design aspects. They could build something like that, but again, they probably won't, and in my opinion shouldn't.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Can you point me to a comprehensive review of anything with Renoir in it?
 

kitenski

macrumors 6502
Jan 30, 2008
467
195
Leeds, UK
Oh god fingers crossed for Monday or Tuesday, I'm working from home on my MBP and I want the better keyboard so bad.

It's the not knowing that's driving me the most nuts. Like for all we know we're not getting an update until Q4, or it could drop tomorrow. Wish there were some more clear rumors about the whole thing.

Can't see it being Tuesday as that is the iOS 13.4 release.
 

mikethebigo

macrumors 68020
May 25, 2009
2,382
1,457
Cool! Can’t wait to see one in a language I can understand ? but some of those graphs did indeed look promising.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Cool! Can’t wait to see one in a language I can understand ? but some of those graphs did indeed look promising.
I cannot find other reviews, possibly they were taken down for breaking NDA too early, but one of Asian reviews has show that 4800H is declocking under load(Blender) to 3.5 GHz on all 8 cores/16 threads, while the CPU part of the APU package was drawing 39W of power. Show me a single Intel CPU that is able to maintain such clocks in such low CPU power envelope. There is none. Even Core i7-9700T PL2 state that maintains 3.6 GHz on all 8 Cores and 8 Threads is 92W's. And we are talking about 35W TDP CPU! This is the exact reason why Intel laptops throttle.

I always love when people are extremely sceptical even when they see that the paint is on the wall. AMD has just jumped to premium laptop market and yet nobody cares, because nobody believes in AMD despite of everything they have done with Zen 2 architecture in desktop and Server space.

As for your previous post saying that Apple is making mobile productivity machine. I just cannot see how 300 grams more weight on Asus G14 makes it less mobile than MBP13. And then tell me: MBP 14, 6 core 10th gen CPU, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, 1.4 kg for 1500$ vs Asus Zephyrus G14 with 8 core/16 Thread, GTX 1660 Ti 6 GB, 512 GB SSD, 16 GB RAM, 1.6 kg for 1500$. Which one in your opinion is going to be better mobile productivity machine, and better value?
 
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mikethebigo

macrumors 68020
May 25, 2009
2,382
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I cannot find other reviews, possibly they were taken down for breaking NDA too early, but one of Asian reviews has show that 4800H is declocking under load(Blender) to 3.5 GHz on all 8 cores/16 threads, while the CPU part of the APU package was drawing 39W of power. Show me a single Intel CPU that is able to maintain such clocks in such low CPU power envelope. There is none. Even Core i7-9700T PL2 state that maintains 3.6 GHz on all 8 Cores and 8 Threads is 92W's. And we are talking about 35W TDP CPU! This is the exact reason why Intel laptops throttle.

I always love when people are extremely sceptical even when they see that the paint is on the wall. AMD has just jumped to premium laptop market and yet nobody cares, because nobody believes in AMD despite of everything they have done with Zen 2 architecture in desktop and Server space.

As for your previous post saying that Apple is making mobile productivity machine. I just cannot see how 300 grams more weight on Asus G14 makes it less mobile than MBP13. And then tell me: MBP 14, 6 core 10th gen CPU, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, 1.4 kg for 1500$ vs Asus Zephyrus G14 with 8 core/16 Thread, GTX 1660 Ti 6 GB, 512 GB SSD, 16 GB RAM, 1.6 kg for 1500$. Which one in your opinion is going to be better mobile productivity machine, and better value?
Well one thing I'll point out is you made this an AMD vs Intel thing when I was more going the dGPU vs iGPU angle. I do agree that Ryzen 4000 mobile shows promise. I'm excited for AMD's offerings to kick Intel's ass in the mobile space, so far they've really only gotten ahead in the desktop space. Honestly I see Apple going ARM before going AMD when it comes to CPUs, but again, the competition is good. I understand that if the CPU had less power draw there would be more power for the dGPU - but you're quoting a CPU with 35W TDP and a hungry Nvidia card (don't know its TDP) for a chassis built for a 28W CPU/GPU combo.

Regarding 300 grams more weight, sure, for a plastic chassis. That size with the way Apple builds their unibody aluminum chassis would certainly be more weight. And again, when you ask what will be the better productivity machine and value, I cannot answer that question without seeing what it's like when it gets into people's hands. If it has a 4 hour battery life or something, it will certainly be good for gamers, but not necessarily for people that need all day battery life for productivity. And I will want to see how it benches against Ice Lake. Also, I don't think the MBP 14 will have a 6 core CPU just FYI, the 28W Ice Lake parts destined for it are quad core only. There is a 6 core version of 10th gen Comet Lake that Dell and others use, but it has last gen graphics and is still 14nm, I don't expect Apple to go that route.

Better value also has a lot more to do than specs. I place value on MacOS, build quality, customer service, ecosystem integration, etc. How much monetary value do you put on those things? That's why PC guys seem so confused sometimes about the choices Mac guys make - we consider more than just the specs. It's not that we don't know the specs, but there's a lot more to a computer than that. I can tell you right now, I would probably never buy the Asus G14 because it will have a lower quality display (there's more to it than refresh rate), worse trackpad, worse build quality, likely worse battery life, Windows, no iMessage integration, etc etc. It will have beefier specs and a better thermal solution, but I'm looking for a lot more holistically than that.

If I wanted a portable gaming laptop I'd give it a serious look though.
 
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koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
You know what is the most valuable for me?

Having the ability to have a choice. To make a choice. Does Apple give you that?

Thankfully the market is giving me the ability to make a choice. So I vote with my wallet.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Lol I have the same ability to make a choice that you do. I choose Apple, and vote with my wallet.
Well, unfortunately, Apple does not give anything that is valuable. So what choice do you have with them?

Keyboards? Trackpad? Everybody caught up with Apple and in some cases starting to lap Apple on those fronts. Build quality? There are laptops which have higher build quality than Apple. Performance? Come on. Mobility? Come on. Choice? Nope - you are bound to what Apple gives you. OS? Even Linux feels better these days, than MacOS which feels old fashioned(and I am not joking, for past year I've been mainly on Linux). So why would anyone pick Apple over other options?

What options do you really have? There is plenty of other options which are better than anything Apple will come up with. And you know what is the best thing?

The discussion will always be this way: well, they are not Apple laptops.

And this is what Apple guys never understand how ridiculous this point view is for anybody who is not bound to Apple offerings, or is focused on actually making job done, and not making a statement with their machine.
 
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mikethebigo

macrumors 68020
May 25, 2009
2,382
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Well, unfortunately, Apple does not give anything that is valuable. So what choice do you have with them?

Keyboards? Trackpad? Everybody caught up with Apple and in some cases starting to lap Apple on those fronts. Build quality? There are laptops which have higher build quality than Apple. Performance? Come on. Mobility? Come on. Choice? Nope - you are bound to what Apple gives you. OS? Even Linux feels better these days, than MacOS which feels old fashioned(and I am not joking, for past year I've been mainly on Linux). So why would anyone pick Apple over other options?

What options do you really have? There is plenty of other options which are better than anything Apple will come up with. And you know what is the best thing?

The discussion will always be this way: well, they are not Apple laptops.

And this is what Apple guys never understand how ridiculous this point view is for anybody who is not bound to Apple offerings, or is focused on actually making job done, and not making a statement with their machine.
Now I'm really confused why you are on these forums at all if you think Apple does not give anything that is valuable.

But I know people like you. You are so rigid and uncompromising about your beliefs about this, that you genuinely think I could only possibly support Apple because of either ignorance or stupidity, and if I could only see the light like you have, I'd never buy their products again.

Well, wrong. I'm educated, I have both a PC and a Mac in my house right now, I have extensive experience with MacOS and Windows 10. I think my current MacBook Pro is the best laptop for me by a long shot. And I do not believe everyone else has caught up.

Build quality? MBP's are ****in' tanks, no I don't think that many PC laptops have comparable build quality. Again, your Asus is a giant pile of cheap plastic, and Razer is notorious for some of the worst QC issues in the market. Performance? Yeah - the 28W CPUs in the MBPs currently outperform the 15W counterparts in most other laptops. Apple has always opted for higher level Iris graphics as well while other manufacturers generally use the crappy UHD 620-like GPUs in their ultrabooks. Mobility? Yeah of course, it's thin, it's light, it's the same weight as just about everything else at 3 lbs. Choice? Of course - thanks to cloud services, it would be super easy to move from Mac to Windows as my main whenever I wanted to. So I am not "bound" to what Apple gives me - if I find their offerings insufficient, I'll look elsewhere. So far they haven't given me a reason to. OS? What a bunch of ******** that MacOS is unable to match Linux. And don't get me started on Windows 10, where I need to only go 2 menus deep to run into an ancient Windows XP style control panel, or god forbid have to go into the goddamn registry just to do something like invert the mouse scrolling direction like a neanderthal. I am well versed in these various OS's and I far, far prefer MacOS on a daily basis for its simplicity, the robust Unix underpinnings, and its stability.

So again, this is actually your problem. You think I would only choose a Mac because I'm "bound to Apple offerings" or "making a statement with my machine." Believe me, I don't give a **** what laptop people see me use. Apple won me over when they let me return a MacBook 1 month out of warranty, because their customer service is just ****in awesome like that, and I shudder when I think of other manufacturers and their mail-in RMA BS. I like the continuity features, I like things like AirDrop with my devices and with family members, and easy account sharing, and having my desktop and documents available on my phone because of iCloud Drive, I like Universal Clipboard, I like Touch ID and Apple Pay and the T2 chip and the on the fly encryption and security I know I'm getting out of it, I like thunderbolt 3, I like high quality P3 displays, I could just keep going and going.

You have to understand this simple fact: people here know as much as you, and disagree with you. How you deal with that is up to you, either blow a fuse and just argue more aggressively that you're the only one that can be right here, or accept that the kind of people that peruse these forums are well informed, well educated, have professional jobs which earn them the money to support buying these tools, and make a smart and well informed decision to buy them.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Now I'm really confused why you are on these forums at all if you think Apple does not give anything that is valuable.

But I know people like you. You are so rigid and uncompromising about your beliefs about this, that you genuinely think I could only possibly support Apple because of either ignorance or stupidity, and if I could only see the light like you have, I'd never buy their products again.

Well, wrong. I'm educated, I have both a PC and a Mac in my house right now, I have extensive experience with MacOS and Windows 10. I think my current MacBook Pro is the best laptop for me by a long shot. And I do not believe everyone else has caught up.

Build quality? MBP's are ****in' tanks, no I don't think that many PC laptops have comparable build quality. Again, your Asus is a giant pile of cheap plastic, and Razer is notorious for some of the worst QC issues in the market. Performance? Yeah - the 28W CPUs in the MBPs currently outperform the 15W counterparts in most other laptops. Apple has always opted for higher level Iris graphics as well while other manufacturers generally use the crappy UHD 620-like GPUs in their ultrabooks. Mobility? Yeah of course, it's thin, it's light, it's the same weight as just about everything else at 3 lbs. Choice? Of course - thanks to cloud services, it would be super easy to move from Mac to Windows as my main whenever I wanted to. So I am not "bound" to what Apple gives me - if I find their offerings insufficient, I'll look elsewhere. So far they haven't given me a reason to. OS? What a bunch of ******** that MacOS is unable to match Linux. And don't get me started on Windows 10, where I need to only go 2 menus deep to run into an ancient Windows XP style control panel, or god forbid have to go into the goddamn registry just to do something like invert the mouse scrolling direction like a neanderthal. I am well versed in these various OS's and I far, far prefer MacOS on a daily basis for its simplicity, the robust Unix underpinnings, and its stability.

So again, this is actually your problem. You think I would only choose a Mac because I'm "bound to Apple offerings" or "making a statement with my machine." Believe me, I don't give a **** what laptop people see me use. Apple won me over when they let me return a MacBook 1 month out of warranty, because their customer service is just ****in awesome like that, and I shudder when I think of other manufacturers and their mail-in RMA BS. I like the continuity features, I like things like AirDrop with my devices and with family members, and easy account sharing, and having my desktop and documents available on my phone because of iCloud Drive, I like Universal Clipboard, I like Touch ID and Apple Pay and the T2 chip and the on the fly encryption and security I know I'm getting out of it, I like thunderbolt 3, I like high quality P3 displays, I could just keep going and going.

You have to understand this simple fact: people here know as much as you, and disagree with you. How you deal with that is up to you, either blow a fuse and just argue more aggressively that you're the only one that can be right here, or accept that the kind of people that peruse these forums are well informed, well educated, have professional jobs which earn them the money to support buying these tools, and make a smart and well informed decision to buy them.
Which basically means that you want Apple product(s).

Not performance, not value, because there will be better offerings on both fronts.

And here we have to agree to disagree.
 

KoolSafak

macrumors newbie
Mar 23, 2020
22
8
I could use a new MacBook.

Due to Covid-19, I assume the portability of the 16 inch is good enough.

Which improvements can we expect for the 2020 MBP 16?

Are 10nm 45W CPUs ready? Do Apple needs to use those for LPDDR4X?
Otherwise, is Apple stuck with the same CPUs for the third time, right :rolleyes:

What do you think?
 

mikethebigo

macrumors 68020
May 25, 2009
2,382
1,457
I could use a new MacBook.

Due to Covid-19, I assume the portability of the 16 inch is good enough.

Which improvements can we expect for the 2020 MBP 16?

Are 10nm 45W CPUs ready? Do Apple needs to use those for LPDDR4X?
Otherwise, is Apple stuck with the same CPUs for the third time, right :rolleyes:

What do you think?
No 10nm 45W CPUs will be launched this year. Minor refresh of the current design is what's expected.
 

kitenski

macrumors 6502
Jan 30, 2008
467
195
Leeds, UK
So any new rumours that a new 13/14" MBP will be in March/April or do folk realistically think May/June or even further away??
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,735
So any new rumours that a new 13/14" MBP will be in March/April or do folk realistically think May/June or even further away??
If they get it out now, then they may fill a need with so many people working remotely and needing laptops. If they wait until June, then they risk the buying frenzy (which may already be over), and will be facing an economic slow down where people will be buying less.
 

BenConlin44

macrumors regular
Mar 20, 2020
213
128
Glasgow
So any new rumours that a new 13/14" MBP will be in March/April or do folk realistically think May/June or even further away??
There was the rumour of Q2/June for both the Air and Pro but with the air being released last week it could hint at it being very close. A very reliable leaker also mentioned about refreshed iPad Pro’s, Mac Mini and iMac and we haven’t seen the iMac yet so I’m hoping that either today or tomorrow we’ll get an iMac and 14” Pro Refresh
 
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