ctjack
macrumors 68000
Not really choice to consider. Back in the days, for $1000 I bought Dell XPS 15 with dgpu, which rivaled $1300 MBP 13.
Dell has a lot of problems here and there, so i am tired of it.
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Waiting for the 2020 MBP
- Thread starter Dulcimer
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Dell has a lot of problems here and there, so i am tired of it.
Just returned my 2020 MacBook Air due to excessive fan noise. That’s BS to not offer 10th gen CPU on the base model. I bet they will quietly update the CPUs in the base Pro at some point... maybe Fall.
Been lurking this thread since ages, have to say I am quite disappointed. I've been getting through with my 13" 2017 model and was hoping to splurge on the top end model and upgrade it completely to last me 5 years.
I've been noticing slow downs on mine, specially as I do need to run VMs and was hoping with the new one, I would be able to run 2 of them or maybe more.
Things that I thought would be standard in this upgrade didn't happen (Hex core cpu, Wifi 6). Things that I was hoping for also didn't happen (14" screen).
Overall, Apple seems to have saved me some money for the time being, but not sure if I can sit with this machine for another year. I considered the 16" and will look at the refresh, but it's simply too big for my frequent travels.
I've been noticing slow downs on mine, specially as I do need to run VMs and was hoping with the new one, I would be able to run 2 of them or maybe more.
Things that I thought would be standard in this upgrade didn't happen (Hex core cpu, Wifi 6). Things that I was hoping for also didn't happen (14" screen).
Overall, Apple seems to have saved me some money for the time being, but not sure if I can sit with this machine for another year. I considered the 16" and will look at the refresh, but it's simply too big for my frequent travels.
AgentMcGeek
macrumors 6502
I share and understand everyone’s disappointment. So let’s hope Apple releases the 14’’ in the next 6 months.
Why does everyone talk about ARM? What is it and what’s the hype about it? Why do people want it? (Sorry for asking)
Falhófnir
macrumors 603
The new XPSes look like really gorgeous machines, I'm also considering a 15" but probably want to keep a Mac as well, I'd really like a 15" Air type device, but the 14" Pro might be the closest we get to that, but then do I wait for the Arm models and on and on the argument rolls lol...
Maybe the 16" (10th gen plus WiFi 6) though I think that would require the mini LED update late this year or early next to be an Arm variant straight away. I suppose that is possible, they could continue to sell the current 13/16" Intel Pros alongside new HDR 14/16" Arm models? There's enough model numbers been registered to support such a vast lineup!
Registered June 2019:
A2147
A2158
A2179 - 2020 13" MacBook Air
A2182
A2251
Registered January 2020:
A2289
Two of the remaining 2019 models will be the just-launched 13" pros, but that leaves three mystery models to come yet.
PeterJP
macrumors 65816
Well be ya darned! I was waiting for an updated 13" and decided to buy a 16" anyway because I needed an upgrade sooner rather than later. Ah well. Got a refurb with 8 cores, 64GB and a dGPU for only €400 more than the top model kitted out with 32GB and the same size SSD as I have now. Typing on it as we speak. The larger screen is actually a big bonus as I work mostly at a desk these days. Though I'm typing this from my couch. I won't return this one for the new 13" and that's not because I'm so super-disappointed about the new 13". Just chuffed with the 16.
I wouldn’t say that the update was underwhelming. I think the MacBook Pro lineup really has 3 models the Base 13”, High 13” and the 16”. The 16” had its update in November and the High 13” had its update today. The base model I’d say got life extension bumps to enable it to last until the summer when it’ll get updated with 10th gen chips. Bearing in mind the 28w chips leak surfaced around 2-3 months ago with the 15W appearing last month so if we use that as a timescale we get early to mid July for a proper base model refresh which would be a year on from the last spec bump and in time for the back to school offer.
Okay long time lurker, was a bit disappointed to see the new release being a 13” instead of 14”.
But... why’s everyone so negative? Is the base model really that awful? I ask because I want to upgrade from my lovely and still working like a charm MBP 13” mid 2010. Unfortunately it doesn’t work so well with Adobe anymore, which I use a lot as a graphic designer (Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign).
Coming from a 2010 MBP, is it really a bad choice to get the new 1299 base model? May be upgrading to 512GB. I need it for graphic work and a bit of video editing in FCP. Also occasionaly want to run games like The Sims 4, which my MBP 2010 does without any problems.
But... why’s everyone so negative? Is the base model really that awful? I ask because I want to upgrade from my lovely and still working like a charm MBP 13” mid 2010. Unfortunately it doesn’t work so well with Adobe anymore, which I use a lot as a graphic designer (Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign).
Coming from a 2010 MBP, is it really a bad choice to get the new 1299 base model? May be upgrading to 512GB. I need it for graphic work and a bit of video editing in FCP. Also occasionaly want to run games like The Sims 4, which my MBP 2010 does without any problems.
This is an interesting perspective. And you may be right about an update for the Base 13" in the summer. So... when do you think we will see the 14"? 2021?
I had the current gen XPS 13 2in1 10nm with 32GB RAM, 4K screen and 1TB SSD. The top end model available here in the UK. It was cheaper than this MacBook Pro 13 by a noticeable amount. The form factor with the slim bezels was awesome, it was very quick however I had to return it. Not sure if I had a faulty one, I suspect maybe but it cut out on me a couple of times plus I couldn’t get it working with an eGPU that I’ve used with multiple other Windows laptops without issue. So not stable at all in my case and a lot of reports of eGPU issues on that model. Spoke to Dell and they just say they don’t support eGPU’s at all.
You sound like a similar user to me. I’m disappointed that there’s no WiFi 6 but I’ve made my peace with that. There’s no other laptop I can find that doesn’t disappointment in some area either. I’ll get a dock or eGPU for this one with an Ethernet port for when I’m at my desk at least.
With regards to the lack of a 6 core CPU, those are only available on the 14nm 10th gen chips. I think the quad core 10nm ones are better chips as a whole because you get a iGPU that’s around twice the performance, the cores are quite a bit faster clock for clock and it’ll be that bit more battery efficient.
Depends what you do inside the VM’s but I run a few sometimes on my 24GB work Thinkpad which has an 8th gen quad core 15W chip. They work fine for my needs, where I’d hit issues more is a lack of RAM (16GB is too little, 24GB on Windows works OK though) or a too slow SSD. I think this laptop will be fine on both of these.
Falhófnir
macrumors 603
Welcome to the forum (officially!). You're right to say it's not an outright bad machine, you can buy it and enjoy it, but as a relative value proposition it got worse today. Apple could even have used the same 10th gen CPUs that are in the Air but with the Pro's better cooling solution to eke more performance out of them. It seems they left it back on 8th gen chips for no other reason than to try and herd people to the $1,799 model. It's an artificial handicap Apple didn't have to make and that's what people are annoyed about. It seemed Apple had finally moved away from these sort of money grubbing tricks with the 16" Pro and 2020 Air which were very solid releases with few compromises, but then they spring this again, on top of already bifurcating the line to try and stretch the price of the machines. As someone said earlier, Apple want the 13" Pro to be an $1,800+ machine but it's just very hard to justify that sort of (workstation) price for what is a glorified ultrabook at the end of the day.
The Base 13" Pro is still faster than the i7 Air with the 10th generation since it is the 15W processor that can sustain 25W output, while the i5/i7 Air are 10W chips that top out around 12W sustained. Unfortunately, it can't drive a 6K display, which is odd. The CPU isn't much faster between the 8th and 10th generations, though the GPU is.
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They couldn't use the same chips as the Air because they would be slower than the 2019 model. They could have used the 15W version of the 10th generation (1035G7), but for whatever reason they did not. Perhaps Intel doesn't yet have the supply (Apple sells more MacBook Pros than Dell sells XPS 13s - Dell's volumes are much lower-priced PCs). Perhaps they were worried about eating into sales of the Air.
I think we are definitely getting a 14” model either as a late 2020 refresh or early 2021 it will most likely have a mini led display bar any production issues and will probably keep ice lake chips unless it doesn’t arrive until around this time next year.
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I agree with this i think the main reason for the base model not getting the 10th gen chips (we know they’re in development and are being tested by Apple currently) is due to the limited volume able to be produced by intel combined with Apple possibly wanting to increase higher end sales for a few months
The GPU will be slower, but for your purposes, it should be fine. The 8th Gen chips were pretty fast. The 10th generation doesn't add much CPU speed. The focus was on the GPU.
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It's happened before. In 2018 Apple updated the high-end 13" model but not the base 13" model. They couldn't not update the keyboard, though. They did that and gave it a price drop.
Falhófnir
macrumors 603
TDPs are adjustable on Intel's chips, they could configure the TDP of the Air's chips to 15W if they wanted, provided the cooling solution is there. If there's a marginal dip in CPU performance (which is a noted problem with Ice Lake) that's still a worthwhile trade off for significantly better graphics. I don't know for certain on volumes, but they likely sell more Airs than all Pro models combined, so they must have a decent enough supply. At the end of the day it still seems to be a contrived move that leaves a bad taste in the mouth. If they want to sell more of the $1,800 model, making it a 14" would probably have driven sales significantly, and they've had more than enough time to do it given they had the 16" ready 6 months ago!
The TDP on the Y-series is only configurable up to 12W. The 15W U-Series are configurable up to 25W. Intel wouldn't certify them if they tried to over-volt them to sustain the higher Turbo Boost speeds.
Apple could have used the 1035G7 on either the Air or base Pro (the Air would need the base Pro's cooling system). For whatever reason, they didn't.
I’m not that technical haha 🙂 I just want a Macbook that works for my needs. I even considered buying the new Air but I think the MBP will perform better with future Adobe updates. I’d rather buy a ‘cheaper’ Macbook every few years instead of an expensive one and then finding out that there will be an awesome innovative redesign ne. It’s just a bonus that my MBP 2010 still works so well for me.
Thanks! And thanks for clearing that up, I totally understand that. I’m also annoyed that we’re forced to use that stupid touch bar and those TB ports. And no mini jack on the iPhones, and a different charger for every device. I don’t like the fact that Apple forces users to just go with the expensive version because the cheap one is already outdated when it’s released.
But I also love Apple products beceause of their reliability. My MBP 2010 never failed and I still use my 2011 iPad 2. I really hate Windows laptops. 😀
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interesting - I never hear mine! what model did you get and what did you use it for?
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It's about perceived value for money. I think a lot of people wanted a reason to update their macbooks with all the working from home. Majority dislike the butterfly keyboard so that's a good reason too. As it is, you get a very small drop in price for 2 year old Intel and a new keyboard. No wifi 6 either. The value proposition just isn't there. I think a lot of people would like to go the smaller 14" from the 16". Fits better with travelling (try fitting the 15/16" in a backpack on the move). I know I would, and a lot of people in the building I'm working at would too (of 100,'s of Mac users). It seems like the only change was the keyboard - unless you go 3 levels up the model chain. Disappointed and disappointing effort, regardless of what the rumours said about the 14 - it's not a great refresh at all.
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I'm with you, with 2017 MBP and awful keyboard. It still has some depreciation to run so might as well wait for 2022 financial year now. If the 14" had been released I would have gone for it. Value proposition with the keyboard change would have been enough even with the old Intel. Not now.
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Falhófnir
macrumors 603
Oh yeah I see, I got mixed up with how Intel shifted the TDP parameters from the Y series to the... whatever they call them now. Thought they'd changed the default TDP from 9W to 12W already, but it was actually 7W to 9W and 12W is the TDP up. Still think they'd give ample performance if paired with the Pro's fully active cooling, though.
Yep I'm with you on that, as yet there's still nothing that instills the confidence in longevity that Apple's computers do 🙂
ascender
macrumors 603
Just fixing the keyboard immediately makes this a solid buy for lots of people Coming from older machines who just weren’t willing to take a risk on a butterfly keyboard machine, or for those who just don’t like those keyboards.
I’m still surprised they didn’t make the screen larger given they would have re-tooled to do the new case for the keyboard, but I’m not surprised there’s no WiFi 6.
As much as this is a nice spec bump release, there’s so much change been rumoured for the next year that maybe Apple are just treading water until the full redesign with new screen tech and ARM CPUs?
I’m still surprised they didn’t make the screen larger given they would have re-tooled to do the new case for the keyboard, but I’m not surprised there’s no WiFi 6.
As much as this is a nice spec bump release, there’s so much change been rumoured for the next year that maybe Apple are just treading water until the full redesign with new screen tech and ARM CPUs?