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D49

macrumors newbie
Apr 6, 2022
18
14
I'm using a Sonnett Echo Express SE llle contains three PCie cards bought from OWC running WD NVMe. Very quiet and the speed is fine with me.
write 1850 read 2470. has two of these and one Apple pic SSD pulled from a 2013 Mac Pro 1 T 1218 1823 I use this one for beta testing.
 

cpnotebook80

macrumors 65816
Feb 4, 2007
1,228
550
Toronto
The ACASIS enclosure with my firecuda 2tb gets pretty warm to the touch around 44c. Just wondering if that’s normal. I am not using it and it’s just plugged in sitting there connected to front port. I tired back port and was same.
 

Falcon_64

macrumors regular
Oct 26, 2017
103
153
The ACASIS enclosure with my firecuda 2tb gets pretty warm to the touch around 44c. Just wondering if that’s normal. I am not using it and it’s just plugged in sitting there connected to front port. I tired back port and was same.
I don't have the Acasis, but have three other TB enclosures and they all get very warm.
 

edanuff

macrumors 6502a
Oct 30, 2008
578
259
If you're looking at getting new NVMe drives, the SK hynix Gold P31 drives are significantly cooler than any similar performance drives. I bought a Samsung 970 Evo Plus that was red hot in a Sabrent case that I exchanged for the SK Hynix, which now just runs warm.
 

BanditoB

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2009
482
258
Chicago, IL
I wonder what causes all of the heat, even at idle, on these NVMe SSDs. Heat is generally an indicator of inefficiency in the system somewhere and it seems like the components on the SSDs wouldn’t really draw that much power. If they are pulling the full 15 watts of power from the TB port and heating up this much, that’s a lot of seemingly wasted energy.
 
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DPUser

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2012
988
304
Rancho Bohemia, California
I use Logic and have about 2TB of sample libraries. Consequently, I'm sorting out the same issues. A question... With a 2TB internal drive, why are you using a 1TB external drive for project data, which I assume means your DAW session?
Since I posted here initially, I decided to try to maintain my studio's 5,1 Mac Pro in useable condition, so I bought a 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe drive and put it in the OWC Envoy Express. I'm hosting my VI data there, and it is delivering the promised 1550MB/s speed with the new Mac Studio Ultra. I am storing DAW project files on the 2TB onboard SSD, upon which I created two volumes: 1 for OS and Apps and 1 for Data. I'll be using a 1TB SATA SSD in a USB3.1 case for working project data backups and the second USB3.1 case with a 500GB SATA SSD for photos. Two Seagate 8TB HDs are for long-term data and Time Machine. Adding a TB Audio Interface and second Display, I'm using pretty much every port on the Mac Studio!
 
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macca24

macrumors member
Dec 11, 2020
54
76
Wavlink thunderbolt 3 enclosure with 1TB Samsung 980 Pro.
DiskSpeedTest.png
 
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HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
Hello, I have tried everything I can to get a dual-drive APFS-formatted, HDD RAID-0 box to remain consistently connected to my new Studio Ultra: cables, on both USB-A and Thunderbolt/C ports, through 2 separate powered hubs, etc. Every possibility I could find among many online having bad luck with Monterey Macs and RAID boxes has been tried. Nothing works. Take that same box and ANY of 3 different cables I've tested back to my other Intel Macs running macOS < Big Sur and it is as stable as can be. I'm practically convinced this is a Monterey issue (and many others having this issue seem to point at Big Sur too).

This thread seems full of people focused on SSD-based drives but at least you 3 are probably using an HDD-based RAID. If so, have you tried leaving them connected for many hours, including overnight sleeps? Does your RAID remain connected or are you getting the "unexpected ejection" notification and no longer having access to the drive unless you reboot or restart the external drive?

I know the problem is not only sleep related because I've had mine disconnect that way WHILE transferring files from it to the Studio (thus both are very obviously awake). I'm basically looking for a rock-solid, dependable 2+ drive HDD enclosure that won't randomly eject when connected to Studio/Monterrey. I store my media collection on the RAID to feed AppleTVs all over the house.

This issue doesn't seem to replicate for me with a wide variety of SINGLE drive externals... including some oldies I dug out of storage to test many jacks at the same time. This seems to be a bug especially related to HDD-RAID setups.

16TB G-RAID in RAID0 for active assets.

UnRAID fileserver.

I can't remember: is UNRAID basically JBOD behind the scenes but shows as a single "drive" like a RAID 0 volume? If so and it is stable, I would suspect that maybe Mac/Monterrey is "seeing" it like one-drive setups instead of a true RAID.

I use a QNAP TR-004 on my Mac mini and will do the same on my Studio.

Are you using this as JBOD or have you "joined" some drives together in a RAID config?


In discussions about this issue, I have had a couple of people share that they have some HDD-RAID configs that ARE remaining connected, particularly one from Lacie. However, Lacie doesn't sell that enclosure empty and I already have big storage HDDs to use.

If ANYONE has a consistently connected HDD RAID-0 working that survives sleep cycles and has consistently remained connected for several days, please share the box brand and model. Thanks very much!
 
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F-Train

macrumors 68020
Apr 22, 2015
2,272
1,762
NYC & Newfoundland
@HobeSoundDarryl There are a few people using RAID. See, for example, posts by @albertjs. He's running four enclosures, each holding 8TB, connected to four Thunderbolt 4 ports in RAID 0. He hasn't reported the kinds of problems that you're talking about.

From one of his tests:

sc.jpg
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
Yes, unfortunately, I don't have some equivalent-sized SSD RAIDs to also try. A Thunderblade at the size I would need is $6800 at OWC and I just gave about that much to Apple for this Studio.

I need to get a couple of BIG HDDs in a RAID to work. That's why I singled out those 3 people to quote because I suspect all 3 are using HDDs in their RAID boxes.
 
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Chancha

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2014
2,244
2,041
My G-RAID Thunderbolt 3 8+8TB has been in RAID-0 config since day 1 when I bought it along with my iMac 2017. Over the course of all macOS updates (I think it started from 10.12) I have had *zero* disconnecting issues. The iMac has been using Monterey now for as long as it has been available. Since this enclosure is permanently docked to this iMac so I almost never tried it on other Macs so I don’t know if it behaves differently on Apple Silicon Macs.

Of note is that we got Intel MBA, M1 MBA, 14” MBP etc and NVMe enclosures disconnecting on all of them do happen, including when plugging to this iMac. But never on a HDD enclosure that is not bus-powered. We previously had been using WD Thunderbolt Duos during the Thunderbolt 2/1 era, those also almost never disconnected.

I am not 100% sure what RAID system the G-Tech uses, but I am positive it has no hardware RAID card / components, it relies on macOS Disk Utility to initially setup any RAID config.
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
My G-RAID Thunderbolt 3 8+8TB has been in RAID-0 config since day 1 when I bought it along with my iMac 2017. Over the course of all macOS updates (I think it started from 10.12) I have had *zero* disconnecting issues. The iMac has been using Monterey now for as long as it has been available. Since this enclosure is permanently docked to this iMac so I almost never tried it on other Macs so I don’t know if it behaves differently on Apple Silicon Macs.

Of note is that we got Intel MBA, M1 MBA, 14” MBP etc and NVMe enclosures disconnecting on all of them do happen, including when plugging to this iMac. But never on a HDD enclosure that is not bus-powered. We previously had been using WD Thunderbolt Duos during the Thunderbolt 2/1 era, those also almost never disconnected.

I am not 100% sure what RAID system the G-Tech uses, but I am positive it has no hardware RAID card / components, it relies on macOS Disk Utility to initially setup any RAID config.

Thanks for the interesting reply. So that implies Silicon Macs only because I basically have the SAME experience: my HDD RAID-0 box is perfectly stable on my Intel Macs (iMac and MBpro have both been tested lately) but will simply NOT stay connected via USB-A or USB-C ports on this Studio Ultra.

My RAID box does have a physical selector key to choose which RAID mode I want to use, but I definitely recall having to format it using Disk Utility. Originally, it was HFS and then around 2 years ago, I reformatted it as APFS. Until it was switched to this new Studio, it has worked just fine as an always-connected drive. But it will NOT stay connected to this Studio. I tried to assume everything else (cables, coincidence (dying), etc) but methodical tests keep coming back to either this Mac, both kinds of jacks on this Mac or Monterey (as it works with Silicon or perhaps the Silicon support hardware associated with the jacks of this Studio).

I thought about the power transfer and have since tried putting 2 powered hubs in between. The thinking was that maybe Silicon power settings are optimized for power-sipping SSD vs. perhaps more power-demanding HDD (perhaps dropping too low to maintain some kind of minimal level of connection?) and/or it's Thunderbolt-friendly more than it is traditional USB-friendly??? So I wondered what would happen with powered hubs in between (Mac to Hub to Drive). Same results as a direct Mac to Drive connection: up to about 3 hours or so and then "unexpectedly eject."

I'd love to know if that G-RAID box would remain attached for about a day+ to a Silicon Mac. Maybe someone else in this thread has the same kind of RAID but ARE using it with Silicon Macs and can chime in? Else, if you perhaps have some reason to connect it to that M1 MBA sometime and can remember this thread, I'd love to hear that it was stable for many hours.

I fully realize that Studio is brand new and brand new pretty much MUST come with some bugs... so I'm hopeful that this is just one such bug and Apple will resolve it in the next point update or two... hopefully.
 
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Chancha

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2014
2,244
2,041
If Apple Silicon Macs do have trouble staying connected to a HDD RAID then this raise serious concerns for me as well, since I intent to replace my iMac with a Studio also. But at least with my limited observations, I don’t seem to hear specifically HDD RAID issues with the 14” 16” and the M1 Macs, on this forum for instance.

I have a feeling there is something specific about your RAID setup that’s triggering those issues.
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
Certainly possible. I don't have any way to completely rule that out nor completely rule "in" a macOS bug, a jacks issue, a Studio issue, etc. I suspect there will eventually be a macOS upgrade that will "magically" resolve the issue. I suspect it will get attention because Studio is being pushed at big data/big media projects and those kinds of people need big attached storage, probably in RAID setups instead of single drives capping out at 20TB maximums these days.

I've been ALL OVER the web looking for solutions and there are numbers well beyond me with the same issue- just do a search for things like "Monterey unexpected ejection", "macOS Monterey external drive eject" and all variations. Apples own support forums have lots of people with the problem (not the only thread there on the topic)... not necessarily involving only HDD RAID boxes... going back to Big Sur. Or course, it's not everyone having problems... else it would be a BIG deal and getting big attention. It seems to be a situation where some enclosure hardware works and some doesn't and there's no known "list" of compatible vs. not.

Though my lens in trying to read it all, single and multi-drive SSD hardware linked via Thunderbolt seems to generally "just work" but single and multi-drive hardware linked via USB seems to be hit and miss. NAS hardware seems a bit more stable but there are some references to that too- including Time Machine disconnects- and, in my own experience, my Synology NAS seems to be having momentary disconnect-reconnect cycles... maybe 5-10 each day lasting only a few seconds... which was a very rare occurrence on prior Intel Macs running macOS < BigSur. There's plenty of "blame the non-Apple hardware" posts too.

I assume the U in USB should generally mean it should work as it does with the other Macs. Else it should be called SSB (Select Serial Bus) or MSB (Maybe Serial Bus), etc.;) What do Intel Macs USB have that Studio does not right now? My guess is long-debugged supporting software vs. very new hardware that didn't even have access to USB at all until last couple of years. Pair that speculation with "brand new Mac" and relatively new OS and it's not a big leap to imagine a few bugs in the new system.

From all of the searching, I've tried about 10-12 things to see if I can resolve it, ranging from testing a few cables, a few jacks, the powered hubs as "middlemen" to even more "out there" options like the SUDO command to change Drive Sleep from default to the maximum possible delay. To try to test a faulty jacks hypothesis, I broke out a LOT Of HDD single drives- including some oldies that were mostly retired. Those all stay consistently connected for more than a day. It's through that testing that got me thinking RAID specific (at least in my own hardware mix). Unfortunately, I don't happen to have another HDD RAID(s) around to test one against another. That's partially why I'm posting- to try to find one to BUY with some confidence it will probably maintain a steady connection to this new Mac.

If it was ONLY me, I'd just go hard at blaming the OWC box in spite of it being fine (again) when I move it back to Intel Macs with the same cable(s).
 
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cpnotebook80

macrumors 65816
Feb 4, 2007
1,228
550
Toronto
I am getting your "firecude drive (acasis case) ejected error" when i wake my ultra from sleep. right now its connected to the front usbc port. I checked the energy saver setting and only thing checked is wake for network access and display set to off in 15 mins. Anyone have a similar experience?
 

enricoclaudio

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2017
869
1,344
My 2 x 2TB G-Drive SSD and 4TB G-Drive Armor ATD (Time Machine) have been rock solid since day 1 with my Mac Studio M1 Max. They are plugged into a Satechi Thunderbolt 4 Dock and work without a single issue.

760977C9-D52E-442A-9853-003292370789.jpeg
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
I am getting your "firecude drive (acasis case) ejected error" when i wake my ultra from sleep. right now its connected to the front usbc port. I checked the energy saver setting and only thing checked is wake for network access and display set to off in 15 mins. Anyone have a similar experience?

Thanks for chiming in. Feel free to test of course, but I've already pounded through EVERY jack- front and back- with no luck (for more than a few hours). I did do just fine with a pretty good variety of SINGLE HDD tests though- including using very old, (pretty much) retired enclosures I dug out just for additional tests.

In general, it seems:
  • External SSD drives (singles & RAID) mostly "just work" hooked to the USB jacks
  • External HDD drives are hit & miss- some people are reporting no problems and others are getting these "unexpected ejects," NOT exclusively associated with "sleep"/power but that certainly seems to play a role. In my own case, I can fairly dependably drive the ejects with Mac sleep cycles- but not every time. However, I've also had it do it while transferring files from HDD RAID to the Studio, so both ends definitely awake.
  • Subjectively, I think I am getting a sense that stuff connected via Thunderbolt instead of USB may be better at staying connected than stuff connected via USB-C or USB-A.
I do see enough posts on Apple's support forums and around the web to believe that this is also a problem for single drive HDD cases, so you are not alone.

Post just before this one has a G-DRIVE HDD being used as Time Machine with no apparent problem. However, my Apple-Made Time Capsule (indirectly network-connected via Ethernet) just did an unexpected ejection last night (I don't recall it ever doing that before, but there are some references in other threads about this issue that specifically reference HDDs used for TM purposes). Then this morning, Preferences, Time Machine was showing "5.7TB free" when the drive within it has only 3TB total. 🤪 Eventually that corrected itself to showing a more expected amount of free space and TM backups today have worked just fine.

Since I really needed a BIG scratch disk ASAP, I just purchased OWC MiniStack STX and a 18TB single HDD for it and that has remained consistently connected for 3 days now- including through Studio sleeps. That's about a $600 unexpected expense on top of the $6K+ for the Studio Ultra to get me HALF the external HDD storage I had in the OWC RAID but at least it's a working option for now. Ministack is all Thunderbolt 4 connection (whereas the RAID was tested with several cables on both the USB-A and USB-C jacks).

I wondered what would happen to the RAID if I then connected it via new USB-C cables to one of the free Thunderbolt jacks on that Ministack. It stayed connected for HOURS but then "unexpectedly eject"ed around hour 3 or so with the Mac definitely NOT sleeping during those 3 hours. So that would be my THIRD powered hub "middle man" test but first that is a true Thunderbolt connection from Mac to "hub." I'm confident it is NOT the cables as I've tested THREE and if I use them to connect the RAID to my Intel Macs, there's no "unexpected ejects."

Hopefully, we all get a Monterey update soon that deals with this.
 
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dizmonk

macrumors 65816
Nov 26, 2010
1,080
678
My 2 x 2TB G-Drive SSD and 4TB G-Drive Armor ATD (Time Machine) have been rock solid since day 1 with my Mac Studio M1 Max. They are plugged into a Satechi Thunderbolt 4 Dock and work without a single issue.

View attachment 1989414
What's that Satechi tray that the Studio and the drives are sitting on? Kinda interested in something like that.
 

enricoclaudio

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2017
869
1,344
What's that Satechi tray that the Studio and the drives are sitting on? Kinda interested in something like that.

Hre you go:


Plus this USB-C 3.2 10Gbps Hub attached with double side 3M tape:

 
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haralds

macrumors 68030
Jan 3, 2014
2,984
1,247
Silicon Valley, CA
My current iMac has a 3TB fusion drive in it. I was hoping to avoid the extra £600 of getting a 2TB internal and still have to move the files currently on the internal to the slow USB3 spinning metal external drive array.

[...] snip
Be aware that Fusion drives have turned out to be a very limited lifetime, since the 128GB SSD gets beat to hell. A lot of people are seeing failures in 3-4 years. Keep a backup!
 
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