What is there's no new MacPro announced on 27th October ?

[ClassicMartini]

As i'm preparing myself for no mention of the Mac Pro tomorrow, i'm deciding between that HP Z840.. and changing my workflow to Windows OR going the route of custom-built Hackintosh which I have no experience of.

I am mainly a Resolve user, so the faff of having to deal with ProRes conversion is putting me off the Windows choice.

But at the same time, I'm worried about the flakiness of Hackintosh and the maintenance..things not working etc.

Hmm, come on Apple..

It is daunting if you don't know about "chipsets", "mobo's" "pch" etc. (antithesis of typical "it just works, don't tell me more" mac user)
ie A subset, "enthusiasts PC builders", of a subset. "who want to 'trick'/rewire theMacOS into thinking its running on a genuine Mac. Very doable, but you will have a hill or two to climb first...
There are experienced HT people who will help for a 'beer' or two (i.e ram page dev)

 

[pat500000]

As i'm preparing myself for no mention of the Mac Pro tomorrow, i'm deciding between that HP Z840.. and changing my workflow to Windows OR going the route of custom-built Hackintosh which I have no experience of.

I am mainly a Resolve user, so the faff of having to deal with ProRes conversion is putting me off the Windows choice.

But at the same time, I'm worried about the flakiness of Hackintosh and the maintenance..things not working etc.

Hmm, come on Apple..

Welcome to 840 club.
[doublepost=1477523368][/doublepost]

I wish someone from the media (maybe even the Macrumor "crew") simply would ask Tim, Phil or whomever they see at the event tomorrow about the Mac Pro, if they don't talked about the Mac Pro during the event, if they would not comment, just be brave enough to tell them what we think about their neglect

What was stupid about yesterday quarter report was that none of the callers asked about Mac Pro.

 

[loby]

Yes, you are in the minority. Most of us that stuck with the 5,1 are not upgrading to the nMP.




This is exactly what's wrong with the nMP. It didn't NEED to be a complete custom job. Yeah, they could have built a custom motherboard and whatever else they needed but kept the standard PCI slots. Not having PCI slots, especially for GFX cards is arguably the biggest problem and design failure of the nMP. The fact that it's ATI based is another huge failure.




If they would have kept much of the components standard, such as PCI slots, this wouldn't be an issue.



Now, if you work by yourself, or in an extremely small shop, yeah this probably wouldn't be an issue. But if you work in most larger shops, with fiber or 10G or SAS connections to external raids, the nMP doesn't fit. It doesn't integrate into the MASSIVELY EXPENSIVE HARDWARE that's already built into the post workflow. Sure you can use external TB chassis, but the throughput is nowhere near PCI-e speed. How can you recommend the owners re-invest in a complete restructuring of hardware just because Apple decided to have "courage" and remove the industry standard PCI-e slot from their machine?




I dunno, if you're an editor and you can't use your capture card because the machine doesn't have a PCI slot, I'd say that's a pretty big deal. OR, if you can't connect your $5,000+ SAS raid, I'd say that would be an issue. OR, if you can't backup your terabytes of 4K or 6K footage to tape for the same reason, I'd say you would notice.



Look at what happened at Biscardi Creative. They do a large amount of production work, and I think they are a decent example of your average Post and Production facility with a large hardware investment. After FCPX was released, they immediately switched to Premiere. This was after using FCP for many years. After the nMP was released, they switched all of their workstations to PC's. Back in 2012, Walter Biscardi was a pretty big Mac & FCP evangelist until FCPX and the nMP. They switched for the main reasons I listed above. 99% of your Post / Video / Motion GFX / Creative users need flexibility. Apple doesn't offer that any longer.

absolutely...

I believe it is a new era and Microsoft has worked hard to exodus the creative core over to the Windows platform.

Coming out today with the Surface Studio shows their efforts and takes "courage". Apple cut the throat of Adobe and now their products are superior....

Unless Apple tomorrow pulls a rabbit out of their hat and comes out with some impressive stuff....their era is done and they will just become (or already are) just a "toy" and phone company.

This is the most important event of Apple's future. They are at the crossroads....

 

[pat500000]

absolutely...

I believe it is a new era and Microsoft has worked hard to exodus the creative core over to the Windows platform.

Coming out today with the Surface Studio shows their efforts and takes "courage". Apple cut the throat of Adobe and now their products are superior....

Unless Apple tomorrow pulls a rabbit out of their hat and comes out with some impressive stuff....their era is done and they will just become (or already are) just a "toy" and phone company.

This is the most important event of Apple's future. They are at the crossroads....

I think the ms are in 3D reality era now.

 

[NostromoUK]

There are experienced HT people who will help for a 'beer' or two (i.e ram page dev)

I'm on the case searching for these rarest of specimens

Let's get the torture of tomorrow's 'no announcement' out the way first.

 

[chfilm]

Which is the precisely a major issue. People shouldn't be forced into some weird upgrade cycle where if you don't purchase the product when it's released you end up basically overpaying for it later on. Apple could get rid of half of the complaints if they adjusted their prices for old hardware. Really they have one of two fair options. Release updates bi-yearly(max) with upgraded hardware or reflect this in the prices. 3 years is just too long.

That's very true.

 

[AidenShaw]

Really they have one of two fair options. Release updates bi-yearly(max) with upgraded hardware or reflect this in the prices. 3 years is just too long.

Third option is to do what other workstation vendors do and upgrade whenever better parts are there. Apple makes the mistake of waiting for better everything to make a big bang.

Haswell + DDR4 was an improvement - but Apple passed.

 

[JimGoshorn]

Coming out today with the Surface Studio shows their efforts and takes "courage". Apple cut the throat of Adobe and now their products are superior....

I watched the Windows 10 event today and it was impressive. While Microsoft is adding 3D (from VR to holograms) to it's OS, courting creatives and improving on the iMac with the surface studio (except that RAM only goes to 32 instead of 64 and it's display is a little less than 5k), Apple is still twiddling around with iDevices and their integration with Macs and services.

Years ago, Microsoft was playing catchup and now it looks like they are leading with intentions for constant improvement. If they made an effort to go after Mac users and show them that Windows 10 is not the Windows of old, they would probably get more converts. Of course, a direct comparison of iMac vs Surface Studio wouldn't hurt either

 

[Flint Ironstag]

If there's no new mac pro announced tomorrow... I'll keep my current tube for a casual box (web browsing, email, etc.) or pass it on to my Dad. Even if the most badass iMac is announced, my workflow will make it throttle within minutes, making that a non starter.

Guess I'll look at HP or this Puget Systems I've been seeing linked.

And if a new mac pro is announced, they better have their **** together regarding eGPU on TB3. It's the only way I can stay on the platform.

 

[pier]

The dudes comparing a 6-core to a quad-core.

Nope. He is comparing the value of $2K worth of hardware vs $4K hardware.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

And tangentially related to the nMP announcement (or lack thereof) and evaluating alternatives... I never hear about any dual socket Xeon Hackintoshes. I'm guessing the folks spending that type of money value stability and support. Hmmm... only a few more hours now!

 

[Bubba Satori]

Welcome to 840 club.
[doublepost=1477523368][/doublepost]
What was stupid about yesterday quarter report was that none of the callers asked about Mac Pro.

Prolly cuz they've never heard of it.
Can hardly expect them to when Apple store, I mean Apple location drones don't know what they are or have them.

 

[ClassicMartini]

And tangentially... I never hear about any dual socket Xeon Hackintoshes. !

https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...the-machine-apple-never-gave-us.155542/page-4

http://www.rampagedev.com/?p=2001

https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...dwell-v4-cpus-64gb-ddr4-ecc-rdimm-ram.202927/

 

[Flint Ironstag]

Well hell... thanks, Martini. Think I'll sip on one while I browse those links. It would have to be stable and fiddle-free as the real thing for me to put into production, but absolutely worth reading about.

Cheers!

[edit] Impressive to be certain, but not for me anymore. I need to sit down at my box and start billable work.

 

[richinaus]

absolutely...

I believe it is a new era and Microsoft has worked hard to exodus the creative core over to the Windows platform.

Coming out today with the Surface Studio shows their efforts and takes "courage". Apple cut the throat of Adobe and now their products are superior....

Unless Apple tomorrow pulls a rabbit out of their hat and comes out with some impressive stuff....their era is done and they will just become (or already are) just a "toy" and phone company.

This is the most important event of Apple's future. They are at the crossroads....

You are 100% correct. It is a tipping point for both brands and I am not holding my breath for much from Apple tomorrow. My office could move from a total mac office to a total windows office quite easily and I am very keen on the AR Hololens that MS has conjured up. This, with the Surface PC and notebooks it is making it increasingly difficult to find reasons to stick with Apple in a professional capacity.

I had been considering the move before the Creative Surface was announced, and it sort of feels like the nail in the coffin for me.
I will keep my iPads and iPhone but for productivity, it maybe windows here I come.

 

[iMcLovin]

As i'm preparing myself for no mention of the Mac Pro tomorrow, i'm deciding between that HP Z840.. and changing my workflow to Windows OR going the route of custom-built Hackintosh which I have no experience of.

I am mainly a Resolve user, so the faff of having to deal with ProRes conversion is putting me off the Windows choice.

But at the same time, I'm worried about the flakiness of Hackintosh and the maintenance..things not working etc.

Hmm, come on Apple..

Hackintosh....I don't understand why people go that route. You are still stuck with the hardware that Apple supports, cannot get the latest and greatest GPUs. So much work to make it work and still partly stuck inside Apples confined walls. Why not just spend that effort getting comfortable in Win 10 instead and knowing you have complete freedom to choose whatever hardware you like?

 

[dumastudetto]

I thought it was fascinating that Microsoft's event yesterday was entirely focused around the message of creatives and creativity. They say the next version of Windows 10 is titled the Creators Update, the new Surface Studio looks like an incredible bit of kit for designers and graphics people. Microsoft clearly know Apple are vulnerable in this space due to years of neglect, and they are gunning for these lucrative customers.

If the Microsoft event yesterday doesn't wake Apple up, nothing will.

I believe today Apple are going to own some of their missteps, pre-announce some stuff that is coming later, and emphasise in the strongest possible terms that they remain deeply committed to the Mac for creative professionals. If they don't hit these bullet points, and convincingly demonstrate why beyond just words, there's going to be a very rapid exodus of people who will never come back.

I already know of several people who have spent many tens of thousands of dollars building out studios with Apple kit who have already moved on from Apple. If they start losing many more, the Mac is finished.

 

[Larry-K]

I thought it was fascinating that Microsoft's event yesterday was entirely focused around the message of creatives and creativity. They say the next version of Windows 10 is titled the Creators Update, the new Surface Studio looks like an incredible bit of kit for designers and graphics people. Microsoft clearly know Apple are vulnerable in this space due to years of neglect, and they are gunning for these lucrative customers.

If the Microsoft event yesterday doesn't wake Apple up, nothing will.

I believe today Apple are going to own some of their missteps, pre-announce some stuff that is coming later, and emphasise in the strongest possible terms that they remain deeply committed to the Mac for creative professionals. If they don't hit these bullet points, and convincingly demonstrate why beyond just words, there's going to be a very rapid exodus of people who will never come back.

I already know of several people who have spent many tens of thousands of dollars building out studios with Apple kit who have already moved on from Apple. If they start losing many more, the Mac is finished.

The problem is, if it woke Apple up yesterday (pretty unlikely), it would still be a couple of years before any new initiative bore fruit.

After that "What is a Computer" Ad, they either firmly believe their current and near future offerings meet the needs of "Everyone", are trying to obfuscate the shortcomings of their current lineup, don't see the ROI in pursuing creatives, or have something amazing up their sleeves (I present these options in order of decreasing likelihood).

I suspect Tim will just announce a bigger iPad Pro some day soon, and tell everyone it's all they need.

Apple has had to work hard to turn MicroSoft into the plucky underdog and ally of creatives, yet they seem to be persevering.

 

[iMcLovin]

I thought it was fascinating that Microsoft's event yesterday was entirely focused around the message of creatives and creativity. They say the next version of Windows 10 is titled the Creators Update, the new Surface Studio looks like an incredible bit of kit for designers and graphics people. Microsoft clearly know Apple are vulnerable in this space due to years of neglect, and they are gunning for these lucrative customers.

If the Microsoft event yesterday doesn't wake Apple up, nothing will.

I believe today Apple are going to own some of their missteps, pre-announce some stuff that is coming later, and emphasise in the strongest possible terms that they remain deeply committed to the Mac for creative professionals. If they don't hit these bullet points, and convincingly demonstrate why beyond just words, there's going to be a very rapid exodus of people who will never come back.

I already know of several people who have spent many tens of thousands of dollars building out studios with Apple kit who have already moved on from Apple. If they start losing many more, the Mac is finished.

If all Apple release today is a slightly upgraded MacBook Pro line with the touch strip, then for the first time in years, apples announcement will be left completely in the shadows of Microsofts announcements. Even if Mac Pro and iMac and mini get some sorely missed updated internals (though I doubt it) even that would just be lazy work from apple, and updates one should have expected to happen anyway. But in the current way apple is being run, probably not even that is gonna happen.

 

[Crosscreek]

Hackintosh....I don't understand why people go that route. You are still stuck with the hardware that Apple supports, cannot get the latest and greatest GPUs. So much work to make it work and still partly stuck inside Apples confined walls. Why not just spend that effort getting comfortable in Win 10 instead and knowing you have complete freedom to choose whatever hardware you like?

It's really not that hard to get it to work if you purchase the right components but you speak much truth that you are confined with in the flowery walls of Apple without the latest choice of GPU's from Nvidia. There is some current support for the latest AMD Gpu's with flaky Apple drivers and boot issues in a hackintosh.

 

[NostromoUK]

Hackintosh....I don't understand why people go that route. You are still stuck with the hardware that Apple supports, cannot get the latest and greatest GPUs. So much work to make it work and still partly stuck inside Apples confined walls. Why not just spend that effort getting comfortable in Win 10 instead and knowing you have complete freedom to choose whatever hardware you like?

That's a good point about limiting of GPUs, thanks. I guess it's just the ProRes factor which was swaying me to Hackintosh. Damn you, Apple!

A few hours 'til major disappointment and tough decisions....

 

[Fl0r!an]

Hackintosh....I don't understand why people go that route. You are still stuck with the hardware that Apple supports, cannot get the latest and greatest GPUs. So much work to make it work and still partly stuck inside Apples confined walls. Why not just spend that effort getting comfortable in Win 10 instead and knowing you have complete freedom to choose whatever hardware you like?

I don't necessarily have a problem with the hardware Apple supports. I just don't want it to be glued into an expensive display.
Btw, Maxwell GPUs never were "Apple approved" but still served lots of people well (yeah, those drivers are so bad, they don't even exist, we all know...).
Many people also made fast & stable X99 builds, something Apple never sold us either.

It's just a problem for early adopters. Lots of people go out, buy bleeding edge hardware and expect it to work in OS X. That's something you just can't do.

 

[Crosscreek]

I don't necessarily have a problem with the hardware Apple supports. I just don't want it to be glued into an expensive display.

and a dab of solder....

 

[deconstruct60]

...
What was stupid about yesterday quarter report was that none of the callers asked about Mac Pro.

Not stupid. It is an irrelevant question if looking at the performance of the overall company and the strategic and tactically significant products. The Mac Pro could be removed from Apple's product line up and the overall financials not change in any significant way.

Cook dropped hints about the car thing, but for the Mac Pro you'd get the standard "no comment on future products". Why for the car thing? Because it is a potential high growth business that would significantly grow Apple Corporations overall revenues and profits. The Mac Pro can't and won't. There is no high growth and relatively even restricted to the Mac only space it is not a major revenue meter mover.

If Apple is selling around 4M Macs per quarter at around an average selling price of $1,100 ( and a probably inflated Mac Pro count of 100K/yr at a generous average price of $3,800 ) then ...

$1,100 * 4M = $4.4B ( run rate of 16M/year )

$3,800 * 25K = $95M (run rate of 100K/year )

$95M/ $4.4B = 2.1%

Less than double digits of a segment that is not smaller than the Services segment ( 2.1% of 12% is roughly 0% ( 0.0025)). Over time growth in the Mac segments that are still growing could cover that. If the Mac Pro disappears over time Apple will survive.

When Apple refreshes the rest of the Mac line up and that number goes up to 5M it is even smaller.


So there is nothing to motivate an Apple analyst to blow an extremely limited window to ask a question of Apple execs on something that makes no significant material difference.

 

[mrxak]

Is the Mac Pro irrelevant to their overall performance? The sorts of people who buy Mac Pros are influencers on a lot of other consumers, and I'm sure Mac Pro buyers also buy a lot of other Apple products, services, software, and media. If I'm no longer using a Mac Pro, I'm probably also not buying minis and MBPs and iPads and iPhones, I'm definitely not advising friends and families to get into the Apple ecosystem, and I'm probably pretty bitter about it all and evangelizing competing products.