When do you think Mac OS Big Sur will be released?

[honestone33]

The same happens every year. We get the last build, people claim it's not ready, then we get GM.

But what also happens every year is that after the GM, the first few versions of the actual non-beta OS still have a number of bugs. Most of them seem to get corrected by the .2 release, and of course some more by the .3 release.

Regardless, there is still the issue of third party software compatibility, and for me, that is critical. As I have mentioned before, those critical apps for me are Onyx, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, SuperDuper!, and Tech Tool Pro. The first 3 will, most likely, have the required updates around the time the .2 or .3 release of Big Sur happens. And Tech Tool will, as usual, be the last one, probably in January. This year, though, there are serious issues for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner with Big Sur. Normally, their updates are available by the time the .2 version is released. But that is not the case this year.

 

[Ansath]

But what also happens every year is that after the GM, the first few versions of the actual non-beta OS still have a number of bugs. Most of them seem to get corrected by the .2 release, and of course some more by the .3 release.

Regardless, there is still the issue of third party software compatibility, and for me, that is critical. As I have mentioned before, those critical apps for me are Onyx, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, SuperDuper!, and Tech Tool Pro. The first 3 will, most likely, have the required updates around the time the .2 or .3 release of Big Sur happens. And Tech Tool will, as usual, be the last one, probably in January. This year, though, there are serious issues for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner with Big Sur. Normally, their updates are available by the time the .2 version is released. But that is not the case this year.

None of that has any effect on my comment.

 

[honestone33]

None of that has any effect on my comment.

I did not say it didi. I was just pointing out what also happens with a new release of the mac OS. And it has repeated itself again and again and again and ....

 

[Ansath]

I did not say it didi. I was just pointing out what also happens with a new release of the mac OS. And it has repeated itself again and again and again and ....

It's not unique to MacOS, there's always situations like that.

 

[honestone33]

It's not unique to MacOS, there's always situations like that.

Never said it was unique to the mac OS. Yes, such issues happen with many things, whether computer-related or not.

 

[Maconplasma]

But what also happens every year is that after the GM, the first few versions of the actual non-beta OS still have a number of bugs. Most of them seem to get corrected by the .2 release, and of course some more by the .3 release.

Regardless, there is still the issue of third party software compatibility, and for me, that is critical. As I have mentioned before, those critical apps for me are Onyx, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, SuperDuper!, and Tech Tool Pro. The first 3 will, most likely, have the required updates around the time the .2 or .3 release of Big Sur happens. And Tech Tool will, as usual, be the last one, probably in January. This year, though, there are serious issues for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner with Big Sur. Normally, their updates are available by the time the .2 version is released. But that is not the case this year.

The developers of every one of those applications you mentioned had plenty of time to update their apps for Big Sur. They are lazy developers and I find it so odd that people support lazy developers. If a developer of an application (especially something not considered a major commercially-released product like Thunderbird or Libre Office) takes their sweet time then I'm jumping ship on them.

 

[honestone33]

The developers of every one of those applications you mentioned had plenty of time to update their apps for Big Sur. They are lazy developers and I find it so odd that people support lazy developers. If a developer of an application (especially something not considered a major commercially-released product like Thunderbird or Libre Office) takes their sweet time then I'm jumping ship on them.

First and foremost, a number of developers take the understandable, wise choice of waiting until the initial version of the mac OS is released. Given that (and usually the next one, ie. .1) the initial release has bugs, the developers want to get it right.

Secondly, as I've said many times, the first couple of versions of any mac OS have too many bugs, and thus another reason to avoid it.

Third, I see nothing "earth shattering", nor anything in Big Sur, that compels me to upgrade right away. Hence, really no need to rush.

Fourth, regarding SuperDuper! (SD), here is what Dave Nanian (developer of SuperDuper!) communicated to me when I asked him about the issue:

"We are forced to use asr (not ssr) to make a bootable copy, and since it doesn't work yet, we haven't been able to test with it, other than to prove it doesn't work.

I do not know when Apple will fix their tool. We've been asking all summer."

From another Mac discussion site I am on, Bombich Software (developers of Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC)) is having similar issues.

So, neither of them are lazy. I do find it strange that some folks take such a view (laziness) without knowing the facts, nor history. Reminds me of fake news.

Finally, developers of such products as SuperDuper!, Carbon Copy Cloner, Onyx, and Tech Tool Pro are dealing with complex disk "level" issues, and as such, are taking extra care to get it right. Plus, Apple has been known to 1) make it difficult for such developers, and 2) make last minute changes that affect such software. Look at what they did when OS 10.15.5 was released. Definitely caused serious issues with SD and CCC. Fortunately, Apple realized their mistake, and corrected the issue in OS 10.15.6 (and it's OK in V10.15.7).

So, to sum up, I have no problem in waiting until all my third party applications are compatible. The developers are doing the right thing. Meanwhile, I am fine with Catalina, as it is stable, and works fine. If some folks want to take the plunge, and still have third party software that is not yet compatible, be my guest. I can wait on the sidelines and learn some things about Big Sur, all without causing me issues/problems.

 

[Maconplasma]

First and foremost, a number of developers take the understandable, wise choice of waiting until the initial version of the mac OS is released. Given that (and usually the next one, ie. .1) the initial release has bugs, the developers want to get it right.

Nice. Support the developers for inconveniencing customers. And while I've been a Mac user for the past 27 years exclusively I do recognize that Apple's past initial-release GM's have had a few bugs but there's no guarantee there will be major bugs in Big Sur. I mean, that's what the Public Beta was for right? Or are you suggesting that people just download the Public Beta just to "play" with it and don't report bugs to Apple?

Secondly, as I've said many times, the first couple of versions of any mac OS have too many bugs, and thus another reason to avoid it.

There's no proof this will be true of Big Sur. Lordy if we predict the future based only on the past where would this world be?

Third, I see nothing "earth shattering", nor anything in Big Sur, that compels me to upgrade right away. Hence, really no need to rush.

I never said anything about reasons why you should upgrade. I never suggested anything about upgrading to Big Sur. Not sure why you felt the need to state that?

So, neither of them are lazy. I do find it strange that some folks take such a view (laziness) without knowing the facts, nor history. Reminds me of fake news.

Hmm, interesting because that's exactly what most members do here when it comes to Apple. Call them lazy with zero facts of what's going on behind the scenes at Apple.

Finally, developers of such products as SuperDuper!, Carbon Copy Cloner, Onyx, and Tech Tool Pro are dealing with complex disk "level" issues, and as such, are taking extra care to get it right. Plus, Apple has been known to 1) make it difficult for such developers, and 2) make last minute changes that affect such software. Look at what they did when OS 10.15.5 was released. Definitely caused serious issues with SD and CCC. Fortunately, Apple realized their mistake, and corrected the issue in OS 10.15.6 (and it's OK in V10.15.7).

An incredible amount of defense for companies that have millions to billions of dollars and don't care one thing about you. Doesn't surprise me one bit the dig you made towards Apple. Proves my point of what I stated earlier.

So, to sum up, I have no problem in waiting until all my third party applications are compatible. The developers are doing the right thing.

That's perfectly fine. Once again I never told you to upgrade. I will say this, you're exactly the customer lazy developers live for.

 

[Benz63amg]

So how stable is the latest Big Sur release compared to the latest version of catalina? Latest version Catalina is rock solid on my 2017 13 inch MacBook Pro

 

[honestone33]

Nice. Support the developers for inconveniencing customers. And while I've been a Mac user for the past 27 years exclusively I do recognize that Apple's past initial-release GM's have had a few bugs but there's no guarantee there will be major bugs in Big Sur. I mean, that's what the Public Beta was for right? Or are you suggesting that people just download the Public Beta just to "play" with it and don't report bugs to Apple?


There's no proof this will be true of Big Sur. Lordy if we predict the future based only on the past where would this world be?

I never said anything about reasons why you should upgrade. I never suggested anything about upgrading to Big Sur. Not sure why you felt the need to state that?


Hmm, interesting because that's exactly what most members do here when it comes to Apple. Call them lazy with zero facts of what's going on behind the scenes at Apple.

An incredible amount of defense for companies that have millions to billions of dollars and don't care one thing about you. Doesn't surprise me one bit the dig you made towards Apple. Proves my point of what I stated earlier.

That's perfectly fine. Once again I never told you to upgrade. I will say this, you're exactly the customer lazy developers live for.

Man, talk about some clueless statements!

First, while Beta versions are there for feedback, there can still be issues for developers to deal with when the first official, non-beta release comes out.

Secondly, history can definitely be a benefit and factor, and provide valuable information. Perfect example: if Hitler had been smarter, he would have realized that invading Russia would be a colossal mistake, based on Napoleon's prior failure. I am certain there are other clear examples.

Third, yes, you never said I should upgrade. But I have consistently pointed out the reasons why I do not upgrade right away, and not until all my third party applications are compatible. Even if there was a compelling reason to upgrade (has not been the case with any "recent" (at least 8) versions on the mac OS), I would still wait, especially with the current OS being so stable.

Next, you are not considering the facts nor history of mac OS releases. I stand by my statement: that sounds definitely like fake news.

Most of these companies do not have millions of dollars, but still dedicate the necessary resources to come up with a compatible version of their products. And the "dig" I made at Apple is accurate. There was an issue for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner when OS 10.15.5 was released. In fact, I was in direct contact with Dave Nanian about this. Oh, that's right. You ignore history. That explains it.

I notice you left out the definitive statements I made about Shirt Pocket Software and Bombich Software. They are definitely not lazy, and similarly the developers at Titanium Software (makers of Onyx) and Micromat (makers of Tech Tool Pro). I can list many more, but I suspect you would still rely on fake news.

Finally, you are certainly the user any company would not want, given your attitude and incorrect statements. Fortunately, folks like you are in the minority.

 

[honestone33]

So how stable is the latest Big Sur release compared to the latest version of catalina? Latest version Catalina is rock solid on my 2017 13 inch MacBook Pro

Big Sur is still in beta, although it seems this last beta release should be the last. Also, some folks are reporting good things about it.

But it still falls short in at least 2 areas: third party software compatibility, and the issues it causes for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner.

 

[Maconplasma]

Man, talk about some clueless statements!

First, while Beta versions are there for feedback, there can still be issues for developers to deal with when the first official, non-beta release comes out.

Secondly, history can definitely be a benefit and factor, and provide valuable information. Perfect example: if Hitler had been smarter, he would have realized that invading Russia would be a colossal mistake, based on Napoleon's prior failure. I am certain there are other clear examples.

Third, yes, you never said I should upgrade. But I have consistently pointed out the reasons why I do not upgrade right away, and not until all my third party applications are compatible. Even if there was a compelling reason to upgrade (has not been the case with any "recent" (at least 8) versions on the mac OS), I would still wait, especially with the current OS being so stable.

Next, you are not considering the facts nor history of mac OS releases. I stand by my statement: that sounds definitely like fake news.

Most of these companies do not have millions of dollars, but still dedicate the necessary resources to come up with a compatible version of their products. And the "dig" I made at Apple is accurate. There was an issue for SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner when OS 10.15.5 was released. In fact, I was in direct contact with Dave Nanian about this. Oh, that's right. You ignore history. That explains it.

I notice you left out the definitive statements I made about Shirt Pocket Software and Bombich Software. They are definitely not lazy, and similarly the developers at Titanium Software (makers of Onyx) and Micromat (makers of Tech Tool Pro). I can list many more, but I suspect you would still rely on fake news.

Finally, you are certainly the user any company would not want, given your attitude and incorrect statements. Fortunately, folks like you are in the minority.

Thanks for your feedback about the subject at hand but I would recommend for you to chill.

 

[Monotremata]

We get it, you're not upgrading. We know already from the constant posting in every single thread about Apple's laziness and CCC and Super Duper being broken and how 'the first few releases of every MacOS are full of bugs'. I think we got it the 1000th time it was posted in this thread alone. Dont like it, dont upgrade, plain and simple. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you.

There's a Catalina forum right below this one..

 

[honestone33]

Thanks for your feedback about the subject at hand but I would recommend for you to chill.

You're welcome. I am chilled, just making reasonable responses to your statements.

 

[honestone33]

We get it, you're not upgrading. We know already from the constant posting in every single thread about Apple's laziness and CCC and Super Duper being broken and how 'the first few releases of every MacOS are full of bugs'. I think we got it the 1000th time it was posted in this thread alone. Dont like it, dont upgrade, plain and simple. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you.

There's a Catalina forum right below this one..

I am allowed to make posts anywhere. But some folks just make inaccurate/inappropriate statements, and thus I am compelled to respond. You actually just did that when you said "Dont like it". Never said I don't like Big Sur. In fact, given that I have tried it out, cannot say whether like it or not. If I did, it would be fake news.

And I have not said anything 1000 times. Talk about misrepresenting things!

 

[Ansath]

We get it, you're not upgrading. We know already from the constant posting in every single thread about Apple's laziness and CCC and Super Duper being broken and how 'the first few releases of every MacOS are full of bugs'. I think we got it the 1000th time it was posted in this thread alone. Dont like it, dont upgrade, plain and simple. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you.

There's a Catalina forum right below this one..

Yea, it’s crazy how off track this thread got due to an argument over 2 apps that the majority of Mac users do not use. 😳

I had some issues early in the beta, with Citrix and a couple other apps, but now it’s running great! Much more stable than Catalina was.

 

[lxmeta]

So how stable is the latest Big Sur release compared to the latest version of catalina? Latest version Catalina is rock solid on my 2017 13 inch MacBook Pro

The last beta versions (beta 10 and 11.01) are very stable with regards to kernel panics etc. I did not have a single reboot, even under load, and never restarted it.
There are still some performance issues here and there. Example: on the 11.0.1 the screen sharing had to be killed because it nearly froze the computer for me. The performance is IMHO they still have to work on for the final release, beyond the usual debug code impact
My 2 cents ...

 

[lxmeta]

The developers of every one of those applications you mentioned had plenty of time to update their apps for Big Sur. They are lazy developers and I find it so odd that people support lazy developers. If a developer of an application (especially something not considered a major commercially-released product like Thunderbird or Libre Office) takes their sweet time then I'm jumping ship on them.

Are you a developer? Are you a diligent one?
Been a developer, managed developers, and I can assure you the priorities are not set by developers.
I also believe that you may underestimate the efforts porting applications that are very close to low level system functions on a beta version.
Most professionals that are not working in the software industry would wait until their key applications are working well before upgrading. Big Sur has not even been released officially!

 

[ArPe]

I expect an event announcement might happen this week. Then a GM for devs before the event.

11.0.1 has been stable and very performant. I only had one instance of the Dock crashing randomly. Music app needs to be tighter, if I click on search links nothing happens and I have to hit return on the keyboard instead.

 

[honestone33]

Yea, it’s crazy how off track this thread got due to an argument over 2 apps that the majority of Mac users do not use. 😳

I had some issues early in the beta, with Citrix and a couple other apps, but now it’s running great! Much more stable than Catalina was.

If the 2 apps you are talking about are SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner, you are gravely mistaken, A number of folks use either of them for their backup tasks, and they are solid performers.

 

[honestone33]

The last beta versions (beta 10 and 11.01) are very stable with regards to kernel panics etc. I did not have a single reboot, even under load, and never restarted it.
There are still some performance issues here and there. Example: on the 11.0.1 the screen sharing had to be killed because it nearly froze the computer for me. The performance is IMHO they still have to work on for the final release, beyond the usual debug code impact
My 2 cents ...

Thanks for that report! Seems to go along with what I said about users having good experiences with the latest beta version.

 

[honestone33]

Are you a developer? Are you a diligent one?
Been a developer, managed developers, and I can assure you the priorities are not set by developers.
I also believe that you may underestimate the efforts porting applications that are very close to low level system functions on a beta version.
Most professionals that are not working in the software industry would wait until their key applications are working well before upgrading. Big Sur has not even been released officially!

Thank you for that. I used to be a developer, although it was for programming on a mainframe. And yes, such developers are not lazy. Far from it.

Finally, the last portion of your post says it perfectly:

"Most professionals that are not working in the software industry would wait until their key applications are working well before upgrading. Big Sur has not even been released officially!"

Exactly! I guess some folks are not that informed. Glad you made such a direct, valid, and pertinent post.

 

[haralds]

Looks like there will be an even, "Just One More Thing" on Nov 10.

 

[honestone33]

Looks like there will be an even, "Just One More Thing" on Nov 10.

Yeah, here is a "story" about that:

Apple plans “One more thing” event for November 10 to show off its new Macs

Apple sent out invitations for a u201cOne more thingu201d event to unveil its newest Macs with Apple siliconu2014rather than Intelu2014inside.

www.macworld.com

My "bet" would be the Silicon Macs. Just a guess, as it seems to be the only item that would be brand new. But hey, who am I to know?

 

[Ansath]

If the 2 apps you are talking about are SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner, you are gravely mistaken, A number of folks use either of them for their backup tasks, and they are solid performers.

A number =/= the majority of Mac users. More like a minority, I reckon. I tried finding some statistics of how many users there are, but gave up after a few minutes, but if you have some stats, feel free to share. Out of over 100 million Mac users, I would be surprised if there were more than 10% that used those 2 apps.