When do you think Mac OS Big Sur will be released?

[Monotremata]

I would take a fair guess, a large amount of those Mac users are folks that got roped in with their gadgets and used Macs because "they just work" and aren't bending over backwards to use anything other than Time Machine for their Macs.

The MacRumors forum is not the majority, not even remotely close. As one who's done 'tech support' for decades now, the majority of Mac users are NOT the same folks that frequent tech forums or even know what Slashdot is, in fact they're general run of the mill folks that just use it to work or to talk to their grandkids.. You are not THE Mac user demographic, in fact you're a very small subset of them.

 

[honestone33]

A number =/= the majority of Mac users. More like a minority, I reckon. I tried finding some statistics of how many users there are, but gave up after a few minutes, but if you have some stats, feel free to share. Out of over 100 million Mac users, I would be surprised if there were more than 10% that used those 2 apps.

I did not say "majority". Maybe I can start a poll here and see which backup software folks are using. But of course such a poll here will not get to every Mac user.

I'd be surprised if it is not at least 25 to 30%. Of course there are a number of folks who just insist on using Apple software, no matter what. And probably a good number who do not do any backups at all.

 

[honestone33]

I would take a fair guess, a large amount of those Mac users are folks that got roped in with their gadgets and used Macs because "they just work" and aren't bending over backwards to use anything other than Time Machine for their Macs.

The MacRumors forum is not the majority, not even remotely close. As one who's done 'tech support' for decades now, the majority of Mac users are NOT the same folks that frequent tech forums or even know what Slashdot is, in fact they're general run of the mill folks that just use it to work or to talk to their grandkids.. You are not THE Mac user demographic, in fact you're a very small subset of them.

Where did I say I was "The Mac user demographic"? Where? Show me the proof. You certainly know how to make inaccurate, invalid statements. Your post above, which I already commented on, is a perfect illustration of that.

 

[honestone33]

I would take a fair guess, a large amount of those Mac users are folks that got roped in with their gadgets and used Macs because "they just work" and aren't bending over backwards to use anything other than Time Machine for their Macs.

The MacRumors forum is not the majority, not even remotely close. As one who's done 'tech support' for decades now, the majority of Mac users are NOT the same folks that frequent tech forums or even know what Slashdot is, in fact they're general run of the mill folks that just use it to work or to talk to their grandkids.. You are not THE Mac user demographic, in fact you're a very small subset of them.

Once again, show me the proof that I stated "I am THE Mac user demographic". You really need to make accurate statements, otherwise it's fake news.

 

[haralds]

The developers of every one of those applications you mentioned had plenty of time to update their apps for Big Sur. They are lazy developers and I find it so odd that people support lazy developers. If a developer of an application (especially something not considered a major commercially-released product like Thunderbird or Libre Office) takes their sweet time then I'm jumping ship on them.

Thanks for calling us lazy without understanding the details.
I run a team working on apps supporting macOS. You have no idea how much pain some of Apple's changes can cause - especially with complex apps that make use of third party frameworks that also have to work or get work arounds. We have been working for months on changes required for Big Sur and Apple Silicon.
With Apple Silicon we have the added fun with iOS apps and BLE hardware and stacks that are not yet "stellar."
Meanwhile Windows support has been pretty rock stable and consistent since Windows 7. Vista was a PITA, but manageable in comparison to some of Apple's stuff. The app I wrote in 2003 on Windows can still install and run.
BTW, Apple's response on their forums is mainly non-existent. And filing support tickets ends up in being pointed to the developer docs. What do they think we do first before venturing into the Apple Support purgatory?
So have empathy and patience. This stuff is not easy. And developers on Macs love Macs or they would not try to serve the smaller market share of persnickety users. 😉

 

[honestone33]

Thanks for calling us lazy without understanding the details.
I run a team working on apps supporting macOS. You have no idea how much pain some of Apple's changes can cause - especially with complex apps that make use of third party frameworks that also have to work or get work arounds. We have been working for months on changes required for Big Sur and Apple Silicon.
With Apple Silicon we have the added fun with iOS apps and BLE hardware and stacks that are not yet "stellar."
Meanwhile Windows support has been pretty rock stable and consistent since Windows 7. Vista was a PITA, but manageable in comparison to some of Apple's stuff. The app I wrote in 2003 on Windows can still install and run.
BTW, Apple's response on their forums is mainly non-existent. And filing support tickets ends up in being pointed to the developer docs. What do they think we do first before venturing into the Apple Support purgatory?
So have empathy and patience. This stuff is not easy. And developers on Macs love Macs or they would not try to serve the smaller market share of persnickety users. 😉

Thank you for that! Basically supports what I stated above in my responses.

BTW, Dan Nanian of Shirt Pocket Software has always been terrific in responding to questions I have. On another site I visit, Carbon Copy Cloner users say the same about Mike Bombich of Bombich Software (developers of Carbon Copy Cloner). Both of them are certainly not lazy.

 

[Maconplasma]

Thanks for calling us lazy without understanding the details.

Happens to Apple everyday here. People attack and trash Apple calling them lazy without truly knowing what's going on inside of Apple. I know first hand a few lazy developers. And it is true, many of them are. As a consumer who buys software I have every right and will continue to voice my opinion about lazy developers. Funny how you include yourself when I never spoke about specific developers, or you. You're taking something personally for no reason.

 

[honestone33]

Happens to Apple everyday here. People attack and trash Apple calling them lazy without truly knowing what's going on inside of Apple. I know first hand a few lazy developers. And it is true, many of them are. As a consumer who buys software I have every right and will continue to voice my opinion about lazy developers. Funny how you include yourself when I never spoke about specific developers, or you. You're taking something personally for no reason.

Talk about a clueless reply! I already proved to you that the developers of SuperDuper!, Carbon Copy Cloner, and Tech Tool Pro are definitely not lazy. It is better if you make informed statements, not ones that are just like fake news.

 

[zz_nosa_r]

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[ghboard2010]

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Right said Fred! 🤣

 

[ArPe]

I can’t keep track of this conversation.

Hope a GM drops today and that will be the first clean install I did of Big Sur since the first beta.

 

[Ansath]

I can’t keep track of this conversation.

Hope a GM drops today and that will be the first clean install I did of Big Sur since the first beta.

I know what you mean!

I'm not totally convinced we will see a GM/RC this week. There's a chance, but a big part of me thinks it's more likely to come out a few hours after the event next week, as it might have references to the new Silicon Macs that they've wanted to keep under wraps.....

Now that I have said that, watch for a GM/RC to appear within the next 3 hours! 😂😂😂😂😂

 

[honestone33]

Now that I have said that, watch for a GM/RC to appear within the next 3 hours! 😂😂😂😂😂

Wishful thinking! Not going to happen.

 

[Ansath]

Wishful thinking! Not going to happen.

If you couldn’t tell, I was being sarcastic. Especially considering if you read the first part of my post, you’ll know my genuine thought on when it will be out.

 

[honestone33]

If you couldn’t tell, I was being sarcastic. Especially considering if you read the first part of my post, you’ll know my genuine thought on when it will be out.

I was just joking around, and having fun!

 

[Monotremata]

I know what you mean!

I'm not totally convinced we will see a GM/RC this week. There's a chance, but a big part of me thinks it's more likely to come out a few hours after the event next week, as it might have references to the new Silicon Macs that they've wanted to keep under wraps.....

Now that I have said that, watch for a GM/RC to appear within the next 3 hours! 😂😂😂😂😂

In the past, they usually have these things ready to go so at some point in the speech he can say 'Its available right now'.. They probably would hold off on the GM release if they want to make the new Mac's have more oooh and aahhhh. But who knows with them anymore.. Wouldnt the last 10.0 beta have been the GM since we went right into the first branch of bug fixes already?

 

[honestone33]

Wonder how the first actual production release will be numbered? Will it be V11.0, V11.1, or V11.0.2?

 

[ghboard2010]

Wonder how the first actual production release will be numbered? Will it be V11.0, V11.1, or V11.0.2?

11.0.0

 

[honestone33]

11.0.0

That would seem to make sense. Hopefully, given that Apple released a beta version designated as V11.0.1, it will not cause confusion.

 

[Ansath]

In the past, they usually have these things ready to go so at some point in the speech he can say 'Its available right now'.. They probably would hold off on the GM release if they want to make the new Mac's have more oooh and aahhhh. But who knows with them anymore.. Wouldnt the last 10.0 beta have been the GM since we went right into the first branch of bug fixes already?

Normally I’d agree, but they seem to be centering this release around the Silicon Macs, I suspect they will want to do a GM to give developers time to give their apps one last test before releasing them.

They do seem to be moving MacOS testing/releases to how they do iOS releases.

That would seem to make sense. Hopefully, given that Apple released a beta version designated as V11.0.1, it will not cause confusion.

I’m going with 11.0.1 being released within a week of the 11.0 release.

 

[honestone33]

I’m going with 11.0.1 being released within a week of the 11.0 release.

So, you're saying the first production release will be V11.0, and then a week later, the next production release will be V11.0.1? That seems to say the first release will contain a number of bugs, and then ?some? of those bugs will be corrected a week later? That does not seem to make sense. I would expect the second production release would be V11.1, about 3 to 5 weeks later.

In thinking about this some more, will Apple use the "high order" number 11 for Big Sur, and at least ?some? future versions of the mac OS? That is, will be numbering for/within Big Sur be V11.0, V11.0.1, V11.0.2, V11.0.3, etc, then V12.0, V12.0.1, etc.? Or will it be V11.0, V11.1, V11.2, V11.3, etc, with the next Mac OS designated as V12.x?

 

[Ansath]

So, you're saying the first production release will be V11.0, and then a week later, the next production release will be V11.0.1? That seems to say the first release will contain a number of bugs, and then ?some? of those bugs will be corrected a week later? That does not seem to make sense. I would expect the second production release would be V11.1, about 3 to 5 weeks later.

In thinking about this some more, will Apple use the "high order" number 11 for Big Sur, and at least ?some? future versions of the mac OS? That is, will be numbering for/within Big Sur be V11.0, V11.0.1, V11.0.2, V11.0.3, etc, then V12.0, V12.0.1, etc.? Or will it be V11.0, V11.1, V11.2, V11.3, etc, with the next Mac OS designated as V12.x?

I suspect it’s going to be more like iOS, where a x.x.1 release is little bug fixes. Seeing how long ago 11.0 was internally made GM, they probably decided to get ahead of the game and fix some bugs they discovered after that point.

 

[honestone33]

I suspect it’s going to be more like iOS, where a x.x.1 release is little bug fixes. Seeing how long ago 11.0 was internally made GM, they probably decided to get ahead of the game and fix some bugs they discovered after that point.

So, what you are saying is that minor, little bug fixes will be designated by the last number of the 11.x.x scheme. That is, after the first production release V11.0.0, the first little bug fix will be 11.0.1, then the next would be 11.0.2, but if a "more major" fix is needed, V11.1.0 would be released. Then, the little bug fixes numbering (in the last digit) start at 1 again, and so forth.

 

[Ansath]

So, what you are saying is that minor, little bug fixes will be designated by the last number of the 11.x.x scheme. That is, after the first production release V11.0.0, the first little bug fix will be 11.0.1, then the next would be 11.0.2, but if a "more major" fix is needed, V11.1.0 would be released. Then, the little bug fixes numbering (in the last digit) start at 1 again, and so forth.

Basically shifting the versioning to be more like iOS. Simpler.

 

[honestone33]

Basically shifting the versioning to be more like iOS. Simpler.

Does not seem that simpler, at least to me. With that scheme, there could be a 110 fixes within Big Sur! That of course assumes that in the 11.x.y scheme, x is between 0 and 9, as is y.

With the V10.x.y scheme, x was always a unique number for that version of the OS (10.5.y for Catalina, for example). y could vary between 0 and 9 (maybe more, but have never seen it). I like it that that there are only 8 versions of Catalina: V10.5.0, V10.5.1, V10.5.2, V10.5.3, V10.5.4, V10.5.6, V10.5.6, and V10.5.7. That seemed to be enough, and also would indicate that the OS got more and more solid, until no more fixes were needed after the .7 one. That seems simpler.