Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

So I just drilled down on lap times, there are cars approaching 2 decades old that are faster than any of the electrics

The only electric cars come somewhat close beat the ICE on a road coarse are like single seat cars

Plus look at the cannonball run, EVs need their own class as they can’t compete with ICE, same with a 24hr lemans

I like tech, but unless we have have a quantum leap in battery tech, electric is still a bit of a novelty outside of people who live in “15minute cities”, or those who are content with just straight line drag racing type speed IMHO

What are you talking about... This is of all time. There are older sports are still faster then newer cars, EV OR ICE... They also are stripped down race cars.

The car RIGHT after the Plaid is the F90 M5, which is from 2019. The car right before it is a 2021 RS3...

You are changing the goalposts. You responded to 2 Nürburgring races demonstrating the 2 top EVs. You said the Plaid didn't handle well and was decades behind ICE suspensions and braking. I showed you data of vehicles of all time, new, and old by lap times. The S Plaid has proven itself amongst the big boy sports car, while being a full-size sedan... Not just proven itself, but spanked a majority of vehicles, all while having full seats, AC, Heat, stereo, unlike the many Porsche 911's above it (stripped down race cars).

 

[Vref]

What are you talking about... This is of all time. There are older sports are still faster then newer cars, EV OR ICE... They also are stripped down race cars.

The car RIGHT after the Plaid is the F90 M5, which is from 2019. The car right before it is a 2021 RS3...

You are changing the goalposts. You responded to 2 Nürburgring races demonstrating the 2 top EVs. You said the Plaid didn't handle well and was decades behind ICE suspensions and braking. I showed you data of vehicles of all time, new, and old by lap times. The S Plaid has proven itself amongst the big boy sports car, while being a full-size sedan... Not just proven itself, but spanked a majority of vehicles, all while having full seats, AC, Heat, stereo, unlike the many Porsche 911's above it (stripped down race cars).

Going off watching the video, you can see the work the guy is having to do on the corners, if it wasn’t for the straight line instant electric torque it wouldn’t even make the list

And it’s all the same goal post, how fun is it to drive, how practical, etc etc

If I was going to have a track day I’d take a miatia over a plaid


60-0

Fast Brake: 20 Best 60 to 0 Distances Recorded by Motor Trend

Check out the most capable cars Motor Trend has ever tested for 60-0 mph braking here in this slideshow feature.

www.motortrend.com

Skid pad

Top 100 "Grip Kings" - fastest cars around skidpad 2024 - FastestLaps.com

"Grip Kings" - fastest cars around skidpad

fastestlaps.com

I also don’t like to rely on the power grid that much

 

[Vref]

Tesla

911

Vette

Little Miata

The electric goes ver fast in a straight line, but you can see the struggle in the other aspects

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Tesla

911

Vette

Little Miata

The electric goes ver fast in a straight line, but you can see the struggle in the other aspects

To be honest I couldn’t imagine turning up at the Nordschleife and not going round with a manual. The fun is driving the circuit, not just going as fast as you can in an auto in my opinion. That Tesla handled as well as any mid range consumer car to be honest, it’s not a sports car nor a racing car at the end of the day.

 

[uller6]

For me Tesla is cheap built car with a higher than mid range price tag. I would take an electric VW Golf over a Tesla Model 3 any day of the week and no, they are not the same class of vehicle by any stretch. Personally I think as the options for EV’s increase over the next 7 years, the Tesla novelty will wear off in Europe. I can’t say the same about America as I have no idea what market trends are there in Tesla’s home market. Right now, the main viable options for affordable EV’s seem to come from Kia, Nissan, Hyundai and MG. I can’t say I’d be rushing out to buy any of those either if I am honest. Still a lot of work to do by manufacturers, the clock is ticking.

I totally agree with you. I couldn't see the value in even a used Tesla model 3, so instead I got a used VW eGolf. It's sweet for what it is, and I hope it can hold me over for the next 10 years or so until electric vehicles are ubiquitous and better designed than those on the market now. I don't commute far and won't take it on long road trips so I don't need to charge the eGolf very often. And it is very fun to drive to the grocery store and back.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

US centric you say? Hmm

US centric??​

Best-Selling Electric Cars in the UK in 2022​

Tesla dominates 2022’s top 10 list, pushing the Kia e-Niro and Volkswagen ID.3 down a place from 2021, whilst the Renault Zoe and Hyundai Kona fail to make the list this time, making space for Polestar and BMW.

Top 10 Best-Selling EVs:​

1. Tesla Model Y (35,551)
2. Tesla Model 3 (19,071)
3. Kia e-Niro (11,197)
4. Volkswagen ID.3 (9,832)
5. Nissan Leaf (9,178)
6. MINI Electric (7,425)
7. Polestar 2 (7,345)
8. MG5 EV (7,030)
9. BMW i4 (6,699)
10. Audi Q4 e-tron (6,594)

Not unusual for the cheap cars to top the best selling charts. I wouldn’t read anything else into that

 

[Vref]

To be honest I couldn’t imagine turning up at the Nordschleife and not going round with a manual. The fun is driving the circuit, not just going as fast as you can in an auto in my opinion. That Tesla handled as well as any mid range consumer car to be honest, it’s not a sports car nor a racing car at the end of the day.

A $100,000.00 Tesla plaid is not marketed as a mid range car

 

[Apple fanboy]

I totally agree with you. I couldn't see the value in even a used Tesla model 3, so instead I got a used VW eGolf. It's sweet for what it is, and I hope it can hold me over for the next 10 years or so until electric vehicles are ubiquitous and better designed than those on the market now. I don't commute far and won't take it on long road trips so I don't need to charge the eGolf very often. And it is very fun to drive to the grocery store and back.

Enjoy. As an ex iCE Golf owner, I came close to going down that road. Hope it gives you years of service.

Just spent a couple of hours on the phone advising a friend on buying an EV. Became of costs and size of vehicle he is looking at an MG5. Not ready to pull the trigger yet, but I was surprised what you can pick up for £15k.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

A $100,000.00 Tesla plaid is not marketed as a mid range car

It is not marketed as such by Tesla, but it is There is a difference. Other than performance it just doesn’t have anything for that segment.

 

[Vref]

It is not marketed as such by Tesla, but it is There is a difference. Other than performance it just doesn’t have anything for that segment.

Exactly, they just aren't a drivers car, I’m not a fan of a 4 door, but price point I’d get caddy V series blackwing waaaay before a electric if I was ferrying children, or was a Uber driver or something and needed the extra doors

The EVs just don’t seem that great for a car guy, the only one that would have been a maybe was the 2 door Tesla/lotus thing, but even that was a little lacking and they seems to have shelfed it anyways

They also don’t seem like a car to keep, as in I don’t think you’ll see many 20 year old teslas that didn’t require a ton of $$ for the battery replacements, plus they are not too great fit and finish, I don’t think many parents are going to hand down a Tesla S like they would say a 68’ E type

It’s cool to not have oil changes or filter and all, but that batter swap though 😬

 

[Tagbert]

Nice screen saver photo. My complaint about GM, Ford, and started by Mercedes is the subscription business model they are rolling out on features that normally are purchased with vehicles. Things like more horsepower, faster charging, heated seats etc. An increasing list if they get away with it. They can build one vehicle with everything on it then turn on and off options over the air because all are computerized and CAN bus controlled.

That started with Tesla who put longer range behind a pay switch. The range was there but not enabled until you paid more. that was a tiny step to annual subscriptions for that extra range.

 

[Vref]

That started with Tesla who put longer range behind a pay switch. The range was there but not enabled until you paid more. that was a tiny step to annual subscriptions for that extra range.

Between that subscription model and being reliant on the easily turned off charging, feels like being a kid again and asking for borrow moms car 😂

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Enjoy. As an ex iCE Golf owner, I came close to going down that road. Hope it gives you years of service.

Just spent a couple of hours on the phone advising a friend on buying an EV. Became of costs and size of vehicle he is looking at an MG5. Not ready to pull the trigger yet, but I was surprised what you can pick up for £15k.

I’d never touch an MG considering how badly they corrode underneath in under 2 years. Unfortunately they are just cheap Chinese rubbish, yet are now popular EV’s because they are one of the few average people can afford.

 

[diamond.g]

That started with Tesla who put longer range behind a pay switch. The range was there but not enabled until you paid more. that was a tiny step to annual subscriptions for that extra range.

Did they do that for more than the Model S 40 kWh edition? I know they do not offer range a boost option for the Model 3 they sell (sold?) in Canada that only had like 150 miles of range.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Tesla cars are definitely a great choice if you're looking for an EV! They offer a lot of features that make them stand out compared to other brands.

I know its subjective but yes their uglyness definitely stands out, although at the same time gets lost in the sea of mundaneness. And of course their best selling models have no binnacle and a daft low windscreen. Bad low rent materials for the price. A fart machine app. And seating in the back especially like in a primary school where anyone who is over 5 foot has their knees against their mouth.

But fair enough, it sounds that in the USA they have the better charging network. In the rest of the world that doesn't actually matter and is no longer a material benefit.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I know its subjective but yes their uglyness definitely stands out, although at the same time gets lost in the sea of mundaneness. And of course their best selling models have no binnacle and a daft low windscreen. Bad low rent materials for the price. A fart machine app. And seating in the back especially like in a primary school where anyone who is over 5 foot has their knees against their mouth.

But fair enough, it sounds that in the USA they have the better charging network. In the rest of the world that doesn't actually matter and is no longer a material benefit.

Not sure I agree with this. I am 6'2", with my driver's seat all the way back, I can fit in the rear seat. I do have to spread my legs around the back of the front seat, but I can fit. In any of the mid size German cars I am in the same situation, or worse. In the full size 7-series, I only have enough room behind the seat if it is an L model. It really takes a full sized vehicle to get into the territory of room in the back. I have a Ram 1500 Crew Cab pickup, I cannot fit behind the front seats in a Quad Cab.

Plus all the vehicles others are saying are better than Tesla's all are compacts, I can't fit in the back seats with the front seats in positions that anyone can sit up there...

There are a lot of complaints about Tesla that are common on all EVs and ICE. I will accept legitimate complaints, but if one is just blaming Tesla for issues that all other manufactures have, then they truly are not fans of the automotive industry. If it wasn't for Tesla, we would not have other manufactures doing everything they can to catch up. They changed the industry, and still are continuing to do so.

I wasn't aware that Telsa was putting range behind subscriptions. Here they are Short Range (SR), Mid Range (MR, not offered anymore), and Long Range (LR). If you get AWD it is LR, the single motor versions are SR or used to have the option of MR. But, I haven't seen an paid option to increase the range. You do learn something new everyday.

My M3 does have the paid option Acceleration Boost, which drops the 0-60 by 0.5 seconds and increases the HP (447) by about 50 (497). I paid about $1k to add 50 HP to my A4, it didn't give my 0-60 a drop of 0.5 seconds. I know a lot of people who paid a lot more than $2k for a lot less increase in their ICE vehicles.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Not sure I agree with this. I am 6'2", with my driver's seat all the way back, I can fit in the rear seat. I do have to spread my legs around the back of the front seat, but I can fit. In any of the mid size German cars I am in the same situation, or worse. In the full size 7-series, I only have enough room behind the seat if it is an L model. It really takes a full sized vehicle to get into the territory of room in the back. I have a Ram 1500 Crew Cab pickup, I cannot fit behind the front seats in a Quad Cab.

Plus all the vehicles others are saying are better than Tesla's all are compacts, I can't fit in the back seats with the front seats in positions that anyone can sit up there...

There are a lot of complaints about Tesla that are common on all EVs and ICE. I will accept legitimate complaints, but if one is just blaming Tesla for issues that all other manufactures have, then they truly are not fans of the automotive industry. If it wasn't for Tesla, we would not have other manufactures doing everything they can to catch up. They changed the industry, and still are continuing to do so.

I wasn't aware that Telsa was putting range behind subscriptions. Here they are Short Range (SR), Mid Range (MR, not offered anymore), and Long Range (LR). If you get AWD it is LR, the single motor versions are SR or used to have the option of MR. But, I haven't seen an paid option to increase the range. You do learn something new everyday.

My M3 does have the paid option Acceleration Boost, which drops the 0-60 by 0.5 seconds and increases the HP (447) by about 50 (497). I paid about $1k to add 50 HP to my A4, it didn't give my 0-60 a drop of 0.5 seconds. I know a lot of people who paid a lot more than $2k for a lot less increase in their ICE vehicles.

It isn't the length necessarily, it is the skateboard platform raising the floor such that your ankles are only just below your bum and thus the knees can be kissed or licked. But yes fair enough, it isn't just Tesla with a skateboard platform. I even don't like the headroom in a Model S. The front passenger seat can't go low enough, and even my children in the back rub their heads against the roof line. Don't get that in an Audi A6/8 or BMW 5/7 nor a Mercedes E/S, and not even a Porsche Panemera/Taycan.

 

[JT2002TJ]

It isn't the length necessarily, it is the skateboard platform raising the floor such that your ankles are only just below your bum and thus the knees can be kissed or licked. But yes fair enough, it isn't just Tesla with a skateboard platform. I even don't like the headroom in a Model S. The front passenger seat can't go low enough, and even my children in the back rub their heads against the roof line. Don't get that in an Audi A6/8 or BMW 5/7 nor a Mercedes E/S, and not even a Porsche Panemera/Taycan.

The M3/MY has a flat floor with no driveshaft hump... So, not sure what you mean. Also, your head is supposed to go above the support bar lines but not make contact with the glass. You should be sitting close to the glass, if you are tall. If you are shorter, it doesn't matter. I can sit in the back in this position without my head touching the glass.

This is where my driver's seat is at 6'2". Don't mind the shiny seats, I just had it detailed, and wasn't aware to tell them not to put the stuff on the seats. CLICK ON THE IMAGES FOR FULL SIZE


This is the back seating area with the driver's seat all the way back:

 

[JT2002TJ]

Going off watching the video, you can see the work the guy is having to do on the corners, if it wasn’t for the straight line instant electric torque it wouldn’t even make the list

And it’s all the same goal post, how fun is it to drive, how practical, etc etc

If I was going to have a track day I’d take a miatia over a plaid


60-0

Fast Brake: 20 Best 60 to 0 Distances Recorded by Motor Trend

Check out the most capable cars Motor Trend has ever tested for 60-0 mph braking here in this slideshow feature.

www.motortrend.com

Skid pad

Top 100 "Grip Kings" - fastest cars around skidpad 2024 - FastestLaps.com

"Grip Kings" - fastest cars around skidpad

fastestlaps.com

I also don’t like to rely on the power grid that much

If it wasn't for the curves, none of the cars other than the Plaid would have made the list... See how crazy that sounds? A race is about curves and straightaways. Some small light cars do better in curves, some heavy powerful vehicles do better on straightaways. At the end, what matters is the net time...

Also, remember, as I said, the S Plaid is a full sized vehicle. Where are all the S8/M7,S63 AMG's? 99% of the cars ahead of the S Plaid are stripped down race cars. You can drive the S Plaid to the track, stop and get Starbucks with a baby's car seat in the back, then take it to that track and spank most race cars...

But I am a car guy. I love all cars, Miata's (the #1 selling sports car of all time), all of them. I appreciate them all. I gave up a stick e46 for my Model 3. Which I commuted 3 hours a day in NYC/Long Island traffic.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The M3/MY has a flat floor with no driveshaft hump... So, not sure what you mean. Also, your head is supposed to go above the support bar lines but not make contact with the glass. You should be sitting close to the glass, if you are tall. If you are shorter, it doesn't matter. I can sit in the back in this position without my head touching the glass.

This is where my driver's seat is at 6'2". Don't mind the shiny seats, I just had it detailed, and wasn't aware to tell them not to put the stuff on the seats. CLICK ON THE IMAGES FOR FULL SIZE


This is the back seating area with the driver's seat all the way back:

It doesn't have the hump because the floor is raised where the feet normally go, and arguably because there is no transmission/driveshaft but that is besides the point as the space is taken up by batteries. In a skateboard platform as Tesla utilises the floor where the soles go is raised because the battery cells are below it. But the base of the bench isn't raised as that always had the space. That makes for an uncomfortable seating position for many people. Yet the focus is always on 'look there is no hump'.

Other manufacturers keep the hump, stuff the batteries in there so that you have more traditional and more comfortable seating. Sure the middle seat in the back has to spread their legs, or if they are little they put their feet on the hump. But realistically most cars don't seat three comfortably in the back, not even my full size range rover gives a good experience to the one in the middle.

 

[JT2002TJ]

It is not marketed as such by Tesla, but it is There is a difference. Other than performance it just doesn’t have anything for that segment.

I'm not sure everyone is giving Tesla a fair shot. If you look at each comparative model, in the luxury space, the other manufacture's vehicles cost WAY more.

MB S500 starts at $114k the S580 starts at $124k
Audi A8 starts at $90k the S8 starts at $121k
740i starts at $96k the M7 starts at $?k not listed in the US

Even the midsized RS/M/AMG are in the price range of the S Plaid.

The pricing of vehicles have significantly increased over the past 10-15 years.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I'm not sure everyone is giving Tesla a fair shot. If you look at each comparative model, in the luxury space, the other manufacture's vehicles cost WAY more.

MB S500 starts at $114k the S580 starts at $124k
Audi A8 starts at $90k the S8 starts at $121k
740i starts at $96k the M7 starts at $?k not listed in the US

Even the midsized RS/M/AMG are in the price range of the S Plaid.

The pricing of vehicles have significantly increased over the past 10-15 years.

Perhaps another one of those USA vs ROW differences.

 

[JT2002TJ]

It doesn't have the hump because the floor is raised where the feet normally go, and arguably because there is no transmission/driveshaft but that is besides the point as the space is taken up by batteries. In a skateboard platform as Tesla utilises the floor where the soles go is raised because the battery cells are below it. But the base of the bench isn't raised as that always had the space. That makes for an uncomfortable seating position for many people. Yet the focus is always on 'look there is no hump'.

Other manufacturers keep the hump, stuff the batteries in there so that you have more traditional and more comfortable seating. Sure the middle seat in the back has to spread their legs, or if they are little they put their feet on the hump. But realistically most cars don't seat three comfortably in the back, not even my full size range rover gives a good experience to the one in the middle.

Let's see some pictures of more foot space (deeper) than the M3 (Mid-sized sedan EV or ICE). I am 6'2" and am very comfortable in the back of my M3. I would have no problem going on a road trip sitting behind my driver seat all the way back.

For reference here are pictures of my e46 that I replaced with this M3. This is in my normal seating position. The foot space is no lower than the M3:

 

[JT2002TJ]

Perhaps another one of those USA vs ROW differences.

What are the UK prices of the same vehicles I listed?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Any car that isn't a skateboard platform It is just an inherent trait of the design choice of the platform. It is not an opinion, it is just the way it is.