Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[The-Real-Deal82]

How tall are you, is your driver's seat all the way back? The difference between an A6 and an A4 or the 3 and 5 is a few inches, maybe 4" (between seats).

Either way, My driver's seat is all the way back and clearly there is more distance between the drivers seat back and the rear seat front.

I'm average height 5'9" and no the drivers seat isn't all the way back in my pic. THe front passengers seat is though and you'd have difficulty fitting in behind that, even I would. Its all the way back because my daughter was last in the front and I'd rather she is as far back as possible. I am sure the inside of your car is bigger than mine, I just responded because I thought you were saying a 6'2" rear passenger would struggle to fit behind an average size driver in an Audi A4? Perhaps I misinterpreted what you were saying. I quite often have colleagues and family in my car that are over 6 foot and its not a problem that I am aware of.

 

[SalisburySam]

Tesla has done a great job of having voice commands. And since the USB recording device was moved to the glove box, it was a good move by them. I get the want for physical buttons, but I have not missed them. I can control everything via voice commands, without moving my hand from the steering wheel.

Absolutely true, though some but not all voice commands are local to the car. Most require a cellular connection and, like Apple’s Siri, are interpreted and responded to from the mothership. Should you be in an area with a weak or non-existent cellular service, voice commands won’t work. In the US at least, there are many such areas.

 

[quagmire]

Now that Tesla has an Apple Music app, I do not miss Carplay at all.

While I enjoy Carplay in other vehicles, I always viewed it as an excuse for OEM's who always sucked at infotainment systems to outsource it to Apple/Google. Tesla's, while not perfect, is by far the best OEM infotainment system, and IMHO Carplay is not needed.

 

[diamond.g]

Tesla has done a great job of having voice commands. And since the USB recording device was moved to the glove box, it was a good move by them. I get the want for physical buttons, but I have not missed them. I can control everything via voice commands, without moving my hand from the steering wheel.

Yeah the glovebox move was a good one for the USB media. I am still surprosed no one else has copied that feature (the dashcam more so than sentry mode).

 

[burgman]

That started with Tesla who put longer range behind a pay switch. The range was there but not enabled until you paid more. that was a tiny step to annual subscriptions for that extra range.

Mercedes and now BMW took the subscription model to another level, I hope customer feedback will change greedy minds, What was I thinking 😂

BMW begins offering vehicle features by subscription in some markets

BMW is making some vehicle features available through paid subscriptions, giving customers the option of adding such creature comforts as heated seats, or advanced driver assistance (ADAS) features…

www.repairerdrivennews.com

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Tesla has done a great job of having voice commands. And since the USB recording device was moved to the glove box, it was a good move by them. I get the want for physical buttons, but I have not missed them. I can control everything via voice commands, without moving my hand from the steering wheel.

So how do you do that when the car is parked up on your driveway or garage but remembered you left something in it and enter via the passenger side where the glovebox is?

I must admit I'm biased against voice commands, just about can handle it for satnav instructions and texting and can see the safety element. But for most things I can't stand going around my home and shout commands for things I could easily do myself. To me most automation isn't automation if you have to request it. Once it anticipates it then it is working well.

 

[Clix Pix]

Absolutely true, though some but not all voice commands are local to the car. Most require a cellular connection and, like Apple’s Siri, are interpreted and responded to from the mothership. Should you be in an area with a weak or non-existent cellular service, voice commands won’t work. In the US at least, there are many such areas.

No matter how great the cellular service and the voice command software, not everyone is able to use voice commands. People who are mute for various reasons, Deaf people who use Sign Language, people who have a heavy accent because they speak English as a second or third language, people who have speech impairments, etc., etc.

 

[Apple fanboy]

No matter how great the cellular service and the voice command software, not everyone is able to use voice commands. People who are mute for various reasons, Deaf people who use Sign Language, people who have a heavy accent because they speak English as a second or third language, people who have speech impairments, etc., etc.

Very true. Also voice commands for changing the temperature in the car are a lot less convenient than a dial you turn. Sometimes the old ways are the best.

 

[JT2002TJ]

So how do you do that when the car is parked up on your driveway or garage but remembered you left something in it and enter via the passenger side where the glovebox is?

I must admit I'm biased against voice commands, just about can handle it for satnav instructions and texting and can see the safety element. But for most things I can't stand going around my home and shout commands for things I could easily do myself. To me most automation isn't automation if you have to request it. Once it anticipates it then it is working well.

Why would you be putting things in the glove box in a Tesla? The center console in a tesla is HUGE, I can't stress how big it actually is. But either way, Teslas do not turn off, when you open the door, it is 2 taps away to open the glove box, or you can reach in and press the voice button and say it.

I only keep my Insurance/Registration paperwork in the glove box, not because it is behind a button, but because it is too far from the driver's seat. In my e46 I could easily reach the glovebox while in the driver seat, not so much in the Tesla.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I'm average height 5'9" and no the drivers seat isn't all the way back in my pic. THe front passengers seat is though and you'd have difficulty fitting in behind that, even I would. Its all the way back because my daughter was last in the front and I'd rather she is as far back as possible. I am sure the inside of your car is bigger than mine, I just responded because I thought you were saying a 6'2" rear passenger would struggle to fit behind an average size driver in an Audi A4? Perhaps I misinterpreted what you were saying. I quite often have colleagues and family in my car that are over 6 foot and its not a problem that I am aware of.

I went to far by saying average. But, honestly, in my picture the drivers seat is all the way back with me being 6'2", I can sit behind my driver seat. In my BMW (sold) or my wife's A4, when I set up the driver's seat, I can't even get into the rear.

The point was to point out how a M3/MY is not the same size as the A4/3 series/C class, it is more inline with the A6/5 series/E class.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Absolutely true, though some but not all voice commands are local to the car. Most require a cellular connection and, like Apple’s Siri, are interpreted and responded to from the mothership. Should you be in an area with a weak or non-existent cellular service, voice commands won’t work. In the US at least, there are many such areas.

All the voice commands used to control the Tesla are local to the car. This was in response to those who feel the need to have physical buttons. I have not missed them in my M3. I have a Ram 1500 with lots of buttons that I never press... I also have an A4 where I have to look to figure out what buttons actually do (same with the BMW), to divert the Air to different places takes my eyes off the road for a considerable amount of time.

Sure, would be nice to be able to press a button and say what I wanted.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

This week marks the week we've been using an EV for 12 months. We've never set out to get an EV, my wife wanted a fast replacement for her BMW M2 Competition with two more doors and were just seeking an alternative. We ended up with a Polestar 2. It is a Long Range Dual Motor (All Wheel Drive) with the Pilot (think all safety features and SAE Level 2 autonomous driving), and Plus (think all comfort features, like full glass roof, enhanced audio/seating/ambient lighting etc). And then also got the Power Upgrade to bring the car up to an equivalent 476Hp vehicle.

In the past 12 months we've driven 20,500 miles (ca. 32,992 km) across 9 countries without any issues. We've been in the garage twice, once to replace a boot strut under warranty, and once for its 18K mile service. Most charging happened from home via our Hypervolt wall unit which is neatly integrated with our house and has a tethered 10m cable.

The car has handled everything from packed on holiday, to high-speed with no limits German autobahn, high-temperature Mediterranean, and low temperature North Europe. During that time, we've had software upgrades from v1.8 to now v2.7 all installed remotely and without issues.

It has been effortless to live with, the range is comfortably measured in Poronkusema units, covering both summer and winter driving. Tyres are at about 4mm left and brakes are only 10% worn.

With the BMW M2 Competition my wife had to fill up every three days (55 liters at about £1.75/liter), with a more powerful electric EV we've been running at about £18 per week. So a huge cost saving in running costs alone.

Would I get another one? No I wouldn't, whilst the car is great I don't think it is great without all the packs and then is way too expensive. But with the price hikes and all the packs it is now as good as the same price as a BMW i4 M50. But that wasn't on the market then.

I'm 100% converted to electric, when it comes to change my car we will go electric as well. I'm just waiting for the Range Rover L460 EV, to pitch against the Mercedes EQS SUV and Porsche Taycan Sport Cross.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Very true. Also voice commands for changing the temperature in the car are a lot less convenient than a dial you turn. Sometimes the old ways are the best.

You can say Set AC to 71 degrees (sorry it's in F), that is a lot faster and safer than taking your eyes off the road, to rotate a dial until it lands on 71 degrees. Oops... went to far, now let me turn it back down to get to 71... lol

I agree some things are nice to have physical buttons, but specifically the AC, or wipers (it has auto) it is very nice to be able to quickly say "Set temperature to 71 degrees" or "Set wipers to high'. Even the lights can be controlled by voice.

I also, say "Fold mirrors" and the mirrors fold in or "unfold mirrors" and they fold out.

It is a change in the way we have been used to, but now when I get in my truck, it feels so old. Having to actually use physical buttons...

 

[JT2002TJ]

Now that Tesla has an Apple Music app, I do not miss Carplay at all.

While I enjoy Carplay in other vehicles, I always viewed it as an excuse for OEM's who always sucked at infotainment systems to outsource it to Apple/Google. Tesla's, while not perfect, is by far the best OEM infotainment system, and IMHO Carplay is not needed.

x2. Well said. Also, Tesla's voice command in their UI is much better than Siri. I can simply say "navigate to blah blah blah" and 100% of the time it works.

 

[Apple fanboy]

You can say Set AC to 71 degrees (sorry it's in F), that is a lot faster and safer than taking your eyes off the road, to rotate a dial until it lands on 71 degrees. Oops... went to far, now let me turn it back down to get to 71... lol

I agree some things are nice to have physical buttons, but specifically the AC, or wipers (it has auto) it is very nice to be able to quickly say "Set temperature to 71 degrees" or "Set wipers to high'. Even the lights can be controlled by voice.

I also, say "Fold mirrors" and the mirrors fold in or "unfold mirrors" and they fold out.

It is a change in the way we have been used to, but now when I get in my truck, it feels so old. Having to actually use physical buttons...

I don’t have to take my eyes off the road to control the temperature.
My last 3 cars have had auto wipers. You always need to use the manual override from time to time. Moving the stork up or down is much quicker than saying it. Especially if you’re having a conversation with someone or listening to music.
So my point stands. The new is worse than the old.

 

[mittencuh]

The M3/MY are mid-size sedans, the MS/MX are full size sedans... The S is in the same class as the S/A8/7 series. Although it may be shorter (because of no need for an ICE), it is wider than the A8 and S550. The interior is the size of the full-sized sedans, and the interior of the M3/MY are the size of mid-sized sedans.

I'm sorry but it just isn't. The Model S is quite wide, you're right.

Here's the Model S compared to the S-class.

Here's the Model S compared to the E-class.

In some interior measurements, the Model S and E-class are actually pretty much identical, and in a few areas, the E-class is more spacious. Source.

And this isn't even taking into account the subjective differences between the German alternatives and the Tesla such as build quality, luxury features available, etc.

 

[Clix Pix]

You can say Set AC to 71 degrees (sorry it's in F), that is a lot faster and safer than taking your eyes off the road, to rotate a dial until it lands on 71 degrees. Oops... went to far, now let me turn it back down to get to 71... lol

I agree some things are nice to have physical buttons, but specifically the AC, or wipers (it has auto) it is very nice to be able to quickly say "Set temperature to 71 degrees" or "Set wipers to high'. Even the lights can be controlled by voice.

I also, say "Fold mirrors" and the mirrors fold in or "unfold mirrors" and they fold out.

It is a change in the way we have been used to, but now when I get in my truck, it feels so old. Having to actually use physical buttons...

Is there also a way to do this without using voice commands? If there is, then that's fine, the driver of the car has choices, options in how he or she can make specific adjustments.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I'm sorry but it just isn't. The Model S is quite wide, you're right.

Here's the Model S compared to the S-class.

Here's the Model S compared to the E-class.

In some interior measurements, the Model S and E-class are actually pretty much identical, and in a few areas, the E-class is more spacious. Source.

And this isn't even taking into account the subjective differences between the German alternatives and the Tesla such as build quality, luxury features available, etc.

Teslas do not need the space for an engine, so they are shorter. The S/X are wider than the S classes. You can see that from your first link. Yes, there are some things it is bigger than, and some that it is smaller than. But, in your second link the MS is overall dimensions are bigger than the E in everything except height. The S class is a better comparison to the MS exterior, with only length being significantly bigger.

The aerodynamics of the shape Telsa's do cut into the rear seating area. But in general, the MS is much closer to the size of the S-Class than it is the E-Class. The MS is considered a full-sized salon, not a mid-sized. And the point of the size again was in reference to the vehicles on the track speed list. This is the only full-sized car on the list, it is surrounded by race cars, while it can fit 5 passengers, golf clubs, and drinks in the cup holders. So this point has been overlooked by the discussion of size, forgetting the original point. To say the suspension is decades behind is a crazy statement because it is racing out of its class. Its times are up there with dedicated race cars.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Is there also a way to do this without using voice commands? If there is, then that's fine, the driver of the car has choices, options in how he or she can make specific adjustments.

Yes, you can control everything from the touch screen without using your voice. The temperature control is on bottom of the screen it shows degrees, when you touch it, a popup comes up with the AC/Heat controls.

I will admit isn't the best is for rear passengers, since they cannot use the screen, they can't control the flow of air to the back, or the rear 3 heated seats (even the center rear seat has its own heated seat). The S/X solve this with a touchscreen on the back of the center console.

Tesla's goal is to have you need to interact with the car as minimal as possible. Almost every setting in the car is saved to your profile. So, when you get in your car all settings (including autopilot, mirrors, seat, indicator options,..) go to your profile. If your phone is the one that opens the car (or set to take preference) everything automatically switches to your settings.

You do have to spend some time setting everything where you want it. But once it is set and saved to your profile, you don't actually have to mess with these settings. They even created a separate profile called "easy out" which its own profile that takes over when you park and unbuckle your belt. I have it set to put the steering wheel all the way in and up, it also brings the seat forward and seat back up to make it easier for me to get out around the B pillar (I sit next to the pillar).

I have not touched the temperature setting since I set it where I want it. It is automatic, just like every other car I have with automatic temperature control once I set my temperature, it is where I leave it winter and summer. Also, since it is an EV, with scheduled departure by GPS location, my car is at my desired temperature before I leave for work, and before I leave work to head home.

Telsa has also introduced Cloud Profiles. When I get a loaner, the service center automatically adds the loaner to my Tesla app. Once that happens, my profile (with my picture) shows up in the loaner, and all my settings magically show up in the loaner. The only things that don't carry over are related to being in the FSD beta program (since a lot of the loaners aren't in the beta, even if they have FSD).

I can admit things that Tesla did, that I would do differently, there is an issue with wiper speed. Tesla does not use water sensors on the windshield, it uses the camera. This is not the best user experience, and can make it wipe too fast, especially in the FSD Beta program's current version. You have to have wipers set to Auto for the current version of FSD Beta, it sometimes goes crazy fast. I just press the washer fluid sprayer button on the end of indicator arm, this makes it go back to normal. This is a flaw with the Beta software, and since I opt to be part of a Beta, it is to be expected that somethings will act like a Beta. But it would have been better if Tesla used traditional rain sensors in the windshield.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I don’t have to take my eyes off the road to control the temperature.
My last 3 cars have had auto wipers. You always need to use the manual override from time to time. Moving the stork up or down is much quicker than saying it. Especially if you’re having a conversation with someone or listening to music.
So my point stands. The new is worse than the old.

I do agree with the wiper, but since Tesla has moved to requiring auto wipers as part of FSD, I'm not sure how a physical button would work with this... Would they have to make it so if you don't move the wiper to auto, FSD won't turn on?

The auto setting on my version of FSD Beta errors on over wiping, unlike my other vehicles with auto settings, which typically I end up having to speed up. I think the key to Tesla's auto setting is to replace your wipers more frequently. When they are newish, they don't make noises when they are wiping too fast.

 

[mittencuh]

Teslas do not need the space for an engine, so they are shorter. The S/X are wider than the S classes. You can see that from your first link. Yes, there are some things it is bigger than, and some that it is smaller than. But, in your second link the MS is overall dimensions are bigger than the E in everything except height. The S class is a better comparison to the MS exterior, with only length being significantly bigger.

The aerodynamics of the shape Telsa's do cut into the rear seating area. But in general, the MS is much closer to the size of the S-Class than it is the E-Class. The MS is considered a full-sized salon, not a mid-sized. And the point of the size again was in reference to the vehicles on the track speed list. This is the only full-sized car on the list, it is surrounded by race cars, while it can fit 5 passengers, golf clubs, and drinks in the cup holders. So this point has been overlooked by the discussion of size, forgetting the original point. To say the suspension is decades behind is a crazy statement because it is racing out of its class. Its times are up there with dedicated race cars.

Did you even bother to look at the links and source? Once again I'm sorry but class size is determined by interior volume, and the Model S is nearly exactly the same in terms of interior space in every regard as the E-class. In some measurements the E-class is larger, such as headroom. I don't know why you're so intent on saying the Model S is punching up to the class above, because in terms of luxury features, it simply cannot compete at all. I'm guessing that's because you have a horse in the race and I don't have one either way.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Did you even bother to look at the links and source? Once again I'm sorry but class size is determined by interior volume, and the Model S is nearly exactly the same in terms of interior space in every regard as the E-class. In some measurements the E-class is larger, such as headroom. I don't know why you're so intent on saying the Model S is punching up to the class above, because in terms of luxury features, it simply cannot compete at all. I'm guessing that's because you have a horse in the race and I don't have one either way.

Exactly, and its the same with the whole range. Model 3 as well, the Model 3 doesn't compete with the 5 series or E or A6, that is just ridiculous.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Did you even bother to look at the links and source? Once again I'm sorry but class size is determined by interior volume, and the Model S is nearly exactly the same in terms of interior space in every regard as the E-class. In some measurements the E-class is larger, such as headroom. I don't know why you're so intent on saying the Model S is punching up to the class above, because in terms of luxury features, it simply cannot compete at all. I'm guessing that's because you have a horse in the race and I don't have one either way.

I did. The two links that overlay the Model S and the S/E demonstrates that the MS exterior falls between the two, being larger in everything that the E class, and only being shorter in length that the S. Which I pointed out that the S class has that length extra length because of the 5L+ engine needing the space. The S Plaid has more cargo space than both.

There is an actual definition of Full-Sized (or Large), defined in the US. The Plaid is defined as a Full-Sized sedan. The E-class and S-class both also are.

I don't have a model S, so it doesn't matter to me if the Plaid is faster than other cars or not, but I am a fan of cars/motorcycles/planes, so when I see someone say that the model S is years behind in suspension based on a posted video of it going around that track in the video. I take issue with that. It was also stated that the only reason the S does so well is because of the straightaways. Which again bothers me. A race is a combination of both turns and straightaways. It's not like the Plaid is a solid axle 60's mustang going up against a refined modern suspension. The S Plaid keeping up with the elite of all time sports cars, many costing 2-3 times the $120k of the Plaid.

In order for the S Plaid to be able to keep up with race cars and the fact that there are maybe 1 or 2 other full-sized sedans on the entire list (those that were, were completely stripped-down race versions), it demonstrates how it isn't true that the suspension isn't behind. That suspension has to do WAY more than others on that list, and still has the Plaid as one of the all-time leaders in the Nürburg ring.

That Plaid is an everyday full-sized vehicle, that kills it in racing. No seats were removed, AC wasn't taken out, the carpet was there, cup holder liners were there.

I was never intended to argue about the seating space for the MS, just that the overall dimensions put it in the full-sized category.

I was discussing the interiors of the M3 vs 3-series/A4/C class, in a different discussion. I still stand by the Model 3 having more interior space than the 3/A4/C class. It appeared so as I shopped for vehicles, and compared to the 3 series I had, and the A4 I still have. I have never owned a C class, but I have owned 2 older "S" classes (450 SLC, and a 380SE).

 

[JT2002TJ]

Exactly, and its the same with the whole range. Model 3 as well, the Model 3 doesn't compete with the 5 series or E or A6, that is just ridiculous.

I don't know this site, but here is a side-by-side comparison:
hhttps://carbuzz.com/compare/audi-a6-vs-bmw-5-series#cars=i_87919-vs-i_89800-vs-i_88086

I can't cut and paste it but row 1 for each category is a 5 series, row 2 is M3, and row 3 is A6. They are all about the same.

Interior Space​

Seating Capacity
5 seater
5 seater
5 seater
Front Seat Leg Room
41.4 in
42.7 in
41.3 in
Front Seat Headroom
38.8 in
40.3 in
38 in
Front Seat Shoulder Room
58.7 in
56.3 in
57.8 in
Front Seat Hip Room
N/A
53.4 in
N/A
Rear Seat Leg Room
36.5 in
35.2 in
37.4 in
Rear Seat Headroom
37.5 in
37.7 in
38.1 in
Rear Seat Shoulder Room
55.9 in
54 in
56.5 in
Rear Seat Hip Room
N/A
52.4 in
N/A

Cargo Space​

Trunk Volume
14 ft³
19.8 ft³
13.7 ft³

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I don't know this site, but here is a side-by-side comparison:
hhttps://carbuzz.com/compare/audi-a6-vs-bmw-5-series#cars=i_87919-vs-i_89800-vs-i_88086

I can't cut and paste it but row 1 for each category is a 5 series, row 2 is M3, and row 3 is A6. They are all about the same.

Interior Space​

Seating Capacity
5 seater
5 seater
5 seater
Front Seat Leg Room
41.4 in
42.7 in
41.3 in
Front Seat Headroom
38.8 in
40.3 in
38 in
Front Seat Shoulder Room
58.7 in
56.3 in
57.8 in
Front Seat Hip Room
N/A
53.4 in
N/A
Rear Seat Leg Room
36.5 in
35.2 in
37.4 in
Rear Seat Headroom
37.5 in
37.7 in
38.1 in
Rear Seat Shoulder Room
55.9 in
54 in
56.5 in
Rear Seat Hip Room
N/A
52.4 in
N/A

Cargo Space​

Trunk Volume
14 ft³
19.8 ft³
13.7 ft³

It doesn't matter what any of those measurements say, you seem to be missing that point both on the Model S and 3. It just doesn't compete in the classes that you think it does. The Tesla's are just not that kind of vehicle. And what does measurements also not show is the comfort of the seating position. You could add a Toyota Camry as well and that has even more space than a TM3, but like the TM3 it just doesn't compete in that class. And if you use the same link as you did with a 3 series you see the 3 actually has more room in the back than the TM3 as well according to the stats. So it really is measurement and comparison that means nothing.

I get that you like your Tesla, no problem with that at all. But it is not a luxury class vehicle. And before you do a comparison, neither is my Polestar but I don't claim for it to be in such a class.