Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[mittencuh]

It’s hard to find an EV driver who wants to go back to an ICE vehicle. Yet so many ICE drivers tell us EV’s won’t work. Strange isn’t it?

On some of the automotive forums I'm on, there's an audience that definitely leases an EV and then returns to ICE or hybrid. Or quite a few who go EV daily + ICE fun car. Nothing is wrong with that. If an EV doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. If an ICE doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. Personally I think PHEVs are probably a happy medium for many, but I've never driven a hybrid or lived with one so IDK.

 

[Apple fanboy]

On some of the automotive forums I'm on, there's an audience that definitely leases an EV and then returns to ICE or hybrid. Or quite a few who go EV daily + ICE fun car. Nothing is wrong with that. If an EV doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. If an ICE doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. Personally I think PHEVs are probably a happy medium for many, but I've never driven a hybrid or lived with one so IDK.

Never owned or driven a hybrid either. To my mind they are worst of both worlds.
You carry around a battery when using your ICE so you get worse MPG. You carry around a heavy ICE when using the battery so you get less KWh than a pure electric.
Plus twice as much to go wrong in my opinion.

 

[Vref]

I imagine my feeling of lightness comes from the first car I've owned that actually has power. I've been driving Sunfires, Minivans, and Civics my entire life. 1000 pounds is a lot. lol. Amazing even after all that "the finished product (V8 Tesla) wasn't as fast (as the Tesla)." Kinda cool "Every car I build I keep." Thanks for the link.

The only thing I’d add is most people associate fast with just straight line acceleration type speed

 

[Vref]

My data would be actually trying to use a touchscreen to adjust the heating while driving along. It’s dangerous and distracting. You can get points and a £1k fine for touching a smartphone mounted to your dashboard yet it’s legal to scroll through the menus on a silly iPad style interface built into the car? Using a phone while driving has plenty of data to suggest it causes accidents which is why it is banned so apply that to a tablet in a car.

Just keep the infotainment stuff on a cars touchscreen and keep basic functions like heating, fans, AC as physical mechanical buttons. There’s already talk in Europe of going back to this as it’s contradicting laws for phone use behind the wheel.

It’s amazing how many people don’t understand how the automatic mode on most cars (and home) climate systems work, outside of defrost I never touch my climate control, it’s just set at 72, no button pushing required

 

[mittencuh]

Never owned or driven a hybrid either. To my mind they are worst of both worlds.
You carry around a battery when using your ICE so you get worse MPG. You carry around a heavy ICE when using the battery so you get less KWh than a pure electric.
Plus twice as much to go wrong in my opinion.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by worse MPG. For example, the Camry hybrid gets 23 mpg better city than the non-hybrid and 13 mpg better highway for a cost of $2,000.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by worse MPG. For example, the Camry hybrid gets 23 mpg better city than the non-hybrid and 13 mpg better highway for a cost of $2,000.

The fact that you are carrying extra weight for whatever power supply you are not using. Lightweight is the key to better handling and efficiency.

 

[MmkLucario]

The fact that you are carrying extra weight for whatever power supply you are not using. Lightweight is the key to better handling and efficiency.

Some of these hybrids only use the engine to charge the battery and provide power to the motors, which moves the vehicle.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Some of these hybrids only use the engine to charge the battery and provide power to the motors, which moves the vehicle.

Indeed. The early BMW i3 with the smaller battery that I have did that. Wasn't something that I wanted TBH.

 

[MmkLucario]

Indeed. The early BMW i3 with the smaller battery that I have did that. Wasn't something that I wanted TBH.

True. The hybrids also provide peace of mind to some people since they can carry gas if they was worried they’re not going to make it.

 

[MmkLucario]

I think EVs would be great if it was a car and for daily commute to your average office workplace and stores, and the power grid is reliable.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

We’ve discussed this before I’m sure but in the UK you can add another £20k-£25k to that starting price here. Great for Americans who want a Tesla. I’m not interested in Tesla though so they can charge what they like.

It’s amazing how many people don’t understand how the automatic mode on most cars (and home) climate systems work, outside of defrost I never touch my climate control, it’s just set at 72, no button pushing required

I can possible comment on those sorts of people and it wasn’t what I was talking about.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Do you have a source for that? Not being snarky…genuine question. This is the antithesis of voice commands in almost any other situation and I don’t think it’s true. If I’m in an area without cellular service, I have no voice commands in my Model 3. Same for a friend in her Model S and another in both their Model X and Y. We have lots of weak service areas locally so easily tested. Voice commands are enabled in Tesla’s Standard Connectivity (one does not need to subscribe to the Premium Upgrade Package @ $10/mo.). Standard Connectivity is of unlimited duration for cars ordered before July 20, 2022. It only lasts for eight years in cars ordered after. Tesla also mentions that when Standard Connectivity expires, so will voice commands among other things. This all points to voice commands being dependent upon decoding outside the vehicle, not within it.

You might be right that it uses cellular.

 

[JT2002TJ]

We’ve discussed this before I’m sure but in the UK you can add another £20k-£25k to that starting price here. Great for Americans who want a Tesla. I’m not interested in Tesla though so they can charge what they like.

Yes, just like how you have to add more to imports for us here in the US. We pay a premium for a lot of the same vehicles you say are cheaper in the UK.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by worse MPG. For example, the Camry hybrid gets 23 mpg better city than the non-hybrid and 13 mpg better highway for a cost of $2,000.

I think the point is compared to modern EVs. Hybrids vs EVs, clearly Hybrids get better MPG than full ICE vehicles. If you own/rent a home where you can have an EV charger (or free level 2 charging at work), and drive < 250 miles per day, an EV is WAY better than a Hybrid, and both EVs and Hybrids are better than full ICE.

If you use your vehicle 99% of the time around town and as a commuter (<250 miles per day) the 1% of the time when you are going on a trip, you can either suffer the longer travel times (because of charging) or rent a vehicle for the trip and have a better overall experience. You don't have weekly (or biweekly) gas station trips, no oil changes or other maintenance required by an ICE.

My issue with Hybrids (honestly, I have no idea if they have improved), they were typically slower than full ICE vehicles, and if you did get on it, you had worse MPG than a fuel-efficient full ICE (like a Honda Civic). But honestly, I have no idea if this has changed, and my opinion is based on early Hybrid technology.

 

[diamond.g]

I think the point is compared to modern EVs. Hybrids vs EVs, clearly Hybrids get better MPG than full ICE vehicles. If you own/rent a home where you can have an EV charger (or free level 2 charging at work), and drive < 250 miles per day, an EV is WAY better than a Hybrid, and both EVs and Hybrids are better than full ICE.

If you use your vehicle 99% of the time around town and as a commuter (<250 miles per day) the 1% of the time when you are going on a trip, you can either suffer the longer travel times (because of charging) or rent a vehicle for the trip and have a better overall experience. You don't have weekly (or biweekly) gas station trips, no oil changes or other maintenance required by an ICE.

My issue with Hybrids (honestly, I have no idea if they have improved), they were typically slower than full ICE vehicles, and if you did get on it, you had worse MPG than a fuel-efficient full ICE (like a Honda Civic). But honestly, I have no idea if this has changed, and my opinion is based on early Hybrid technology.

Most hybrids are designed to improve fuel economy and not performance. That being said, there are hybrids that don't care as much about fuel economy and amp up the performance (IIRC Infiniti hybrids were this way) but the vast majority of those vehicles are not practical (or cheap).

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Yes, they have been doing touch screen and voice commands for many years. But it is not the same as the new generation of EVs. Voice commands at least with every EV I looked into are worlds ahead, on par with Amazon/Google

Again same with modern ICE cars. The common element is current/modern cars not what type of engine they have. You'd be amazing what modern VAG, Mercedes-AMG, or BMW cars do with natural language and context sensitive processing.

Voice commands are local to the vehicle for Tesla (I cannot say that I know what it is for other companies).

Oh no they don't

No. Updates are free. The premium service is only for satellite view maps, Realtime traffic, and streaming data.

Updates can only be downloaded on Wifi, and are free to everyone. I have heard that mandatory updates can be pushed to everyone OTA and will install without the user's input.

Is only for ... Hm realtime traffic, streaming data is core functionality and very useful.

Never owned or driven a hybrid either. To my mind they are worst of both worlds.
You carry around a battery when using your ICE so you get worse MPG. You carry around a heavy ICE when using the battery so you get less KWh than a pure electric.
Plus twice as much to go wrong in my opinion.

In a moment of madness we've had a Toyota Prius. My gosh I hated that drivetrain. Engine screaming at high revs when it decides to have to charge the battery. Heavy horrible driving. Never ever again.

It’s amazing how many people don’t understand how the automatic mode on most cars (and home) climate systems work, outside of defrost I never touch my climate control, it’s just set at 72, no button pushing required

Oh gosh yes, my wife just doesn't get it. I've given up. Only the other night she is like we should adjust the heating as it is warmer outside. I reply, it is on a thermostat no need to adjust if its warmer. She is like oh yes, but can you just change it. Sigh, I don't understand why so many people don't get the concept of thermostats and automatic climate control. Same in the car, where EV drivers don't want to enable the heater or AC as they think it runs all the time. Or in our home where we have a combine central valved system with individual control bypass in each room that is demand driven. Madness....

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think the point is compared to modern EVs. Hybrids vs EVs, clearly Hybrids get better MPG than full ICE vehicles. If you own/rent a home where you can have an EV charger (or free level 2 charging at work), and drive < 250 miles per day, an EV is WAY better than a Hybrid, and both EVs and Hybrids are better than full ICE.

If you use your vehicle 99% of the time around town and as a commuter (<250 miles per day) the 1% of the time when you are going on a trip, you can either suffer the longer travel times (because of charging) or rent a vehicle for the trip and have a better overall experience. You don't have weekly (or biweekly) gas station trips, no oil changes or other maintenance required by an ICE.

My issue with Hybrids (honestly, I have no idea if they have improved), they were typically slower than full ICE vehicles, and if you did get on it, you had worse MPG than a fuel-efficient full ICE (like a Honda Civic). But honestly, I have no idea if this has changed, and my opinion is based on early Hybrid technology.

One of the often overlooked benefits of owning an EV. No trips to the petrol station. Where I live the local ones are expensive and an 8 mile round trip. Plus how often do you grab a snack because you are there? Another money and weight saver!

 

[BigMcGuire]

I don't miss those long Costco gas lines... Even if I left at 6am on Sunday there would be a 15-20 min line. Any other time the line goes out to the street and zig zags through half the parking lot (last week I waited 10 mins in line to just enter Costco).

Any other gas station and you're almost guaranteed to be asked for $ and spit at if you don't.

 

[diamond.g]

Y’all see the Ram EV specs?

2025 Ram 1500 REV packs 650 horsepower, up to 500 miles of range

2025 Ram 1500 REV gets its official reveal at the New York Auto Show with all the specs on horsepower, range, towing, payload and more.

www.autoblog.com

The price for the big pack will be quite interesting.

 

[Vref]

Y’all see the Ram EV specs?

2025 Ram 1500 REV packs 650 horsepower, up to 500 miles of range

2025 Ram 1500 REV gets its official reveal at the New York Auto Show with all the specs on horsepower, range, towing, payload and more.

www.autoblog.com

The price for the big pack will be quite interesting.

Now let’s see the performance, range and practicality with it doing truck things like towing or having a bed full of heavy stuff

Or taking it off road or camping way out with it, uhh, guess instead of a couple jerry cans you’ll need the Jerry cans AND a generator and lots of time?

 

[JT2002TJ]

Now let’s see the performance, range and practicality with it doing truck things like towing or having a bed full of heavy stuff

Or taking it off road or camping way out with it, uhh, guess instead of a couple jerry cans you’ll need the Jerry cans AND a generator and lots of time?

I think the current line of full-sized pickups (ford, and now ram/chevy) are designed to replace a subset of pickup owners. It will be a good option for those who:

1. use their truck around town, then get into their work truck when on site (this is actually a large segment)
2. handyman who use their truck to get to, and be on site, only going between the site and supply stores
3. DIYers who use their truck for truck stuff for home/yard

If you put 1-3 together, I'm sure they encompass one of the largest segments of US pickup owners.

The next generation pickups will expand to a larger group, and eventually there will be a generation that can fill the void for everyone. Also, with this, I would expect cheaper options. Just like how Tesla started with their luxury line, then expanded to the "average" market, and if the rumors are correct, the next option will be the budget market.

There are so many full-size pickups sold in the US, that any segment of the market is enough to make it worth it.

I think people have to manage expectations. EVs aren't for everyone, they are designed to fit a specific market, over time with advancement of technology they will expand to larger markets. Just like I wouldn't hold a ICE Full-size truck to the expectations on economy and parkability of a Toyota corolla, they are designed for different segments of the market.

 

[mittencuh]

Now let’s see the performance, range and practicality with it doing truck things like towing or having a bed full of heavy stuff

Or taking it off road or camping way out with it, uhh, guess instead of a couple jerry cans you’ll need the Jerry cans AND a generator and lots of time?

You mean the things 99% of truck/SUV owners never do? I’m sure the range and performance will be plenty for the typical truck buyer who just uses their truck to drop off their 2.5 children at the charter school, sit in the Starbucks drive through, and make some returns to H&M.

 

[Vref]

You mean the things 99% of truck/SUV owners never do? I’m sure the range and performance will be plenty for the typical truck buyer who just uses their truck to drop off their 2.5 children at the charter school, sit in the Starbucks drive through, and make some returns to H&M.

I know lots of off-roaders, hunters, boaters, dirt bikers, and construction types

All of the people I know with a pickup fall into one of those categories, I have a pickup but I ONLY use it for pickup truck things, other wise my coupe is a much much better ride

Even if we use your “just for looks” demographic, you think the guys driving “bro dozers” want a electric truck?


The only electric truck I think had a chance was the cyber truck, and just be used of was a Tesla thing and also so very unique and strange

 

[AlaskaMoose]

As an EV driver I agree with you. It always makes me raise an eye brow as a minimum when EV drivers says they buy their new car and protecting the environment. Bollocks, no new car is better for the environment. And the other myth is regarding maintenance. Sure there is no engine oil change, nor spark plugs, but everything else still needs doing. Ultimately it’s just a car.

As long as my fellow EV drivers aren’t honest about such matters they aren’t convincing anyone.

Now the fact is that it’s often a really good drive and just awesome car. Surely that is enough?

If truth was to be told, the great majority of the consumers buy automobiles and everything else one can imagine based on wants and needs. Affordability plays a role, of course. I doubt that anybody is going to worry more about the planet than oneself, or even saving the planet ahead of one's family. My words may sound mean, and even hurtful to some, but these are truths that deep inside one can't deny.

 

[BigMcGuire]

If truth was to be told, the great majority of the consumers buy automobiles and everything else one can imagine based on wants and needs. Affordability plays a role, of course. I doubt that anybody is going to worry more about the planet than oneself, or even saving the planet ahead of one's family. My words may sound mean, and even hurtful to some, but these are truths that deep inside one can't deny.

Oh yeah, most people don't have a budget to afford a $60k+ car in the first place, let alone because of saving the earth. A lot of people can't be bothered to throw trash into a trash bin that's 15 feet away...

My wife and I went EV because her work offered free charging. It was an opportunity to get something fast AND save $300/mo in gas and get her access to the carpool lane. Our insurance went down ~$150/mo weirdly enough (from 2 cars to 1).

It has been amazing the year we've had it, but it works for us because our special situation. We got a used 2018 Tesla Model 3 for about the same cost of our 2 Civics. Of course, now, one can get the same car for a lot cheaper (~$10k less) than we're paying for it thanks to the used car market drop, lol.

I work 100% remote, so what we did won't work for MOST people out there - especially if I still had to drive.