Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[Tagbert]

No, EV charging are usually far away from the entrances to supermarkets and shopping centres, at least in the UK they are in my experience. The spaces closer to the entrance are usually parent and baby spaces and those for disabled people, both of which require access and location for safety reasons. If you’re parking in either of those when you’re not eligible, expect to be confronted. People won’t discriminate I can assure you, your car can be keyed as good as the next one.

DC fast chargers are usually situated away from the building as they take up more space and have their own power source.

Low speed A/C J1772 chargers are often in parking spaces close to the building as they usually are tied to the building’s power supply and it costs more to run long power lines to more distant parking spaces. Those are slower and are less common now than they use to be.

In either case, it is rude to park and ICE vehicle in an EV charging space even when not illegal. It suggests a passive-aggressiveness born out of a sense of inadequacy.

 

[Apple fanboy]

DC fast chargers are usually situated away from the building as they take up more space and have their own power source.

Low speed A/C J1772 chargers are often in parking spaces close to the building as they usually are tied to the building’s power supply and it costs more to run long power lines to more distant parking spaces. Those are slower and are less common now than they use to be.

In either case, it is rude to park and ICE vehicle in an EV charging space even when not illegal. It suggests a passive-aggressiveness born out of a sense of inadequacy.

It certainly does. If people don’t like EV’s, but they shouldn’t go out of their way to make things awkward for those that do.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

In my experience the drivers who park in EV charging spaces or disabled or parent spaces aren’t doing it because they feel inadequate, they are simply selfish and want a bigger space for their car. Most aren’t thinking about who it inconveniences, and they don’t care as long as their car doesn’t get scratched. It’s the same people who pull across 2 spaces in a busy car park with the ‘sod everybody else’ mentality.

Keep a pack of zip ties in your boot, they come in handy if you need to fix your trolley to the handles of these selfish swines cars .

 

[Apple fanboy]

In my experience the drivers who park in EV charging spaces or disabled or parent spaces aren’t doing it because they feel inadequate, they are simply selfish and want a bigger space for their car. Most aren’t thinking about who it inconveniences, and they don’t care as long as their car doesn’t get scratched. It’s the same people who pull across 2 spaces in a busy car park with the ‘sod everybody else’ mentality.

Keep a pack of zip ties in your boot, they come in handy if you need to fix your trolley to the handles of these selfish swines cars .

That's the irony if they are parking in those bays to avoid getting their car damaged. They are MORE likely to have it interfered with. Not that I would (as tempting as it maybe). Things just escalate that way. And before you know it there is a serious incident.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

This is all true. But the reality is we all need to do whatever we can to cut back. I’ve not had a bath in years. A shower uses a fraction on the energy (and time!). If we all make little changes then it can make a difference.
I always chose the greener option if I can.

You are right about doing all we can to cut back trying to save all resources. But in reality, the most comfortable we become, the farther away we move from making a difference. An EV over and ICE automobile is not going to make a difference in relation to saving the planet since to build and drive each a great amount of resources are needed. Now, a bicycle over an automobile could possibly make a difference. And so walking over the use of a bicycle. The bottomline: we aren't going to abandon our luxurious lifestyles and live in poverty any time soon. Just look around the room one is at this moment and all the things one surrounds oneself with

 

[Apple fanboy]

You are right about doing all we can to cut back trying to save all resources. But in reality, the most comfortable we become, the farther away we move from making a difference. An EV over and ICE automobile is not going to make a difference in relation to saving the planet since to build and drive each a great amount of resources are needed. Now, a bicycle over an automobile could possibly make a difference. And so walking over the use of a bicycle. The bottomline: we aren't going to abandon our luxurious lifestyles and live in poverty any time soon. Just look around the room one is at this moment and all the things one surrounds oneself with

But remember the environmental impact of an EV is positive after 2 years of ownership. So it would actually make a difference. The resources are all up front. Then it’s making a massive difference.
Yes bikes or walking would be better, but that’s not going to happen.
More people WFH on the other hand would.

 

[VictorTango777]

This is all true. But the reality is we all need to do whatever we can to cut back. I’ve not had a bath in years. A shower uses a fraction on the energy (and time!). If we all make little changes then it can make a difference.
I always chose the greener option if I can.

Let's also not forget the car manufacturers, most notably Toyota, which lobby the US government to lower fuel efficiency standards, causing people to spend more money to burn more gas.

It certainly does. If people don’t like EV’s, but they shouldn’t go out of their way to make things awkward for those that do.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKg4pbRF3zA&list=PL6Shq3_78bdRd0DRB4ior_z7UzkVhKxLc&index=42

How many of the people arguing against EVs have owned or driven an EV, let alone a high end EV?

Considering that this is an Apple oriented website, I'm sure many here are familiar with those Windows PC guys who have never used a Mac for any significant length of time, yet continue to spread prejudice and misinformation against Macs. There are Mac users who have little knowledge and experience with PCs. But we are not at the point where there are EV drivers who have never owned or driven a gas car. So the ignorance mainly comes from one side of the argument.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

But remember the environmental impact of an EV is positive after 2 years of ownership. So it would actually make a difference. The resources are all up front. Then it’s making a massive difference.
Yes bikes or walking would be better, but that’s not going to happen.
More people WFH on the other hand would.

I don't think it is that simple. Once those two years have passed, EV's just like any other wheeled automobile still need tires, body panels, chassis, windshields, wheel bearings, windows, charging and so on. The electricity has to be produced somewhere, and so all the body parts, cooling fluids and even oil, grease, and a myriad of other things. These industrial processes-to build parts and chemicals-harm the environment too. The EV (or ICE automobile) is not going to be moved anywhere by nature, nor to create its own parts by a natural process, nor to perform its own maintenance. All of these parts, plus services each have a market value. Even if you park and charge it at home you are still paying for it. Now, if you don't have a car, then you don't need a place to park it, nor do you have to maintain it. Having an automobile, regardless of kind, is to make ours lives more comfortable or enjoyable. The truth is that we aren't saving the planet not anything else.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I don't think it is that simple. Once those two years have passed, EV's just like any other wheeled automobile still need tires, body panels, chassis, windshields, wheel bearings, windows, charging and so on. The electricity has to be produced somewhere, and so all the body parts, cooling fluids and even oil, grease, and a myriad of other things. These industrial processes-to build parts and chemicals-harm the environment too. The EV (or ICE automobile) is not going to be moved anywhere by nature, nor to create its own parts by a natural process, nor to perform its own maintenance. All of these parts, plus services each have a market value. Even if you park and charge it at home you are still paying for it. Now, if you don't have a car, then you don't need a place to park it, nor do you have to maintain it. Having an automobile, regardless of kind, is to make ours lives more comfortable or enjoyable. The truth is that we aren't saving the planet not anything else.

I think your anti EV stance is coming through again.

No-one having a car and walking everywhere is clearly the greenest option. However most people aren’t going to be able (or willing) to do that.

The next best option is mass public transport. But again this is only an option in larger city’s and even then has its limitations.

So we are left with the option of buying and owning cars. Now no car is maintenance free, but an EV uses substantially less parts for maintenance. They don’t have exhaust systems that fail or oil that needs changing every year.
Suspension is a tie.
Brakes tend to wear a lot less due to regenerative braking. Tyres tend to wear more.
So where does that leave us?
Fuel. An ICE vehicle will continue to burn fossil fuels for every mile it is driven. An EV just uses electricity. Some of that energy comes from renewable sources (this varies a lot from country to country of course). In the UK 40% came from renewable sources in 2022. Add in that the majority of EV’s charge at night so is probably more than the 40% during those low use hours.

So clearly it’s better to use a car that isn’t burning fuel each day.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I don't think it is that simple. Once those two years have passed, EV's just like any other wheeled automobile still need tires, body panels, chassis, windshields, wheel bearings, windows, charging and so on. The electricity has to be produced somewhere, and so all the body parts, cooling fluids and even oil, grease, and a myriad of other things. These industrial processes-to build parts and chemicals-harm the environment too. The EV (or ICE automobile) is not going to be moved anywhere by nature, nor to create its own parts by a natural process, nor to perform its own maintenance. All of these parts, plus services each have a market value. Even if you park and charge it at home you are still paying for it. Now, if you don't have a car, then you don't need a place to park it, nor do you have to maintain it. Having an automobile, regardless of kind, is to make ours lives more comfortable or enjoyable. The truth is that we aren't saving the planet not anything else.

As an EV driver I agree with you. It always makes me raise an eye brow as a minimum when EV drivers says they buy their new car and protecting the environment. Bollocks, no new car is better for the environment. And the other myth is regarding maintenance. Sure there is no engine oil change, nor spark plugs, but everything else still needs doing. Ultimately it’s just a car.

As long as my fellow EV drivers aren’t honest about such matters they aren’t convincing anyone.

Now the fact is that it’s often a really good drive and just awesome car. Surely that is enough?

 

[BigMcGuire]

That's why you should buy USED! Even more of a bump. We've saved ~$300/mo in gas for a year now. Some of our charging is done at places that get their power from solar (state run chargers with massive panels overhead) but yeah, I do acknowledge the best thing for the environment would be not to drive, but not all of us can afford to live next to UCLA (in the city).

 

[Apple fanboy]

That's why you should buy USED! Even more of a bump. We've saved ~$300/mo in gas for a year now. Some of our charging is done at places that get their power from solar (state run chargers with massive panels overhead) but yeah, I do acknowledge the best thing for the environment would be not to drive, but not all of us can afford to live next to UCLA (in the city).

I bought used. Always have. Nearly new is probably closer to the truth.

 

[QCassidy352]

I have only limited experience with Carplay but I absolutely prefer buttons. With a touch screen you have to look at the screen in order to touch or select the correct area. With buttons I can by touch chose the audio source, zoom in/out navigation, change volume, etc. without having to look at the console.

With buttons you soon become so accustomed to the ones you use often, you never look away to use them. They are just there where you need them. I like the fact that I can program certain buttons in my BMW. Navigate home, one button. Call Mrs AFB one button. Favourite radio station. One button. Safe.

I hear you guys, but believe me, you adjust way faster and more completely than you’d imagine. I can do a lot of things on the touchscreen without looking because of muscle memory. Navigate home is a single swipe down on the search bar (which is always in the same place). Adjusting temp is always in the same place and on the Home Screen. Volume adjustment can be done from a scroll wheel on the steering wheel (or from a static location on the touchscreen). zooming in or out on the map can be done without looking using multitouch gestures (although you do have to look at the screen to see the new zoom depth, so not sure that one matters). Voice command can also do any of these without moving your eyes.

I don’t mean this in a bad way, but this feels like trying to explain to blackberry users in 2008 why an iPhone touchscreen is better than a physical keyboard. Yes it seems crazy, until you get used to it, and then the panoply of buttons seems archaic.

To be clear, I think a small number of physical buttons is useful (as is also the case on an iPhone). But it’s way less than you think you need.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I hear you guys, but believe me, you adjust way faster and more completely than you’d imagine. I can do a lot of things on the touchscreen without looking because of muscle memory. Navigate home is a single swipe down on the search bar (which is always in the same place). Adjusting temp is always in the same place and on the Home Screen. Volume adjustment can be done from a scroll wheel on the steering wheel (or from a static location on the touchscreen). zooming in or out on the map can be done without looking using multitouch gestures (although you do have to look at the screen to see the new zoom depth, so not sure that one matters). Voice command can also do any of these without moving your eyes.

I don’t mean this in a bad way, but this feels like trying to explain to blackberry users in 2008 why an iPhone touchscreen is better than a physical keyboard. Yes it seems crazy, until you get used to it, and then the panoply of buttons seems archaic.

To be clear, I think a small number of physical buttons is useful (as is also the case on an iPhone). But it’s way less than you think you need.

Couldn’t disagree more. Touchscreens are perfect for a phone. They are not perfect for everything.
Cars are much safer with physical buttons.
Especially for the most used functions.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I hear you guys, but believe me, you adjust way faster and more completely than you’d imagine. I can do a lot of things on the touchscreen without looking because of muscle memory. Navigate home is a single swipe down on the search bar (which is always in the same place). Adjusting temp is always in the same place and on the Home Screen. Volume adjustment can be done from a scroll wheel on the steering wheel (or from a static location on the touchscreen). zooming in or out on the map can be done without looking using multitouch gestures (although you do have to look at the screen to see the new zoom depth, so not sure that one matters). Voice command can also do any of these without moving your eyes.

I don’t mean this in a bad way, but this feels like trying to explain to blackberry users in 2008 why an iPhone touchscreen is better than a physical keyboard. Yes it seems crazy, until you get used to it, and then the panoply of buttons seems archaic.

To be clear, I think a small number of physical buttons is useful (as is also the case on an iPhone). But it’s way less than you think you need.

Touch screens aren’t new. I’ve had them in many cars. Never like them when driving, lol can’t lock my finger when there is a bump in the road and then I touch something else. Nope majority of core functions should have buttons. Gets even worse when it’s cold and freezing and you are wearing gloves. Yup got a heating steering wheel as well, but don’t want to take off and on the gloves constantly.

I can tolerate it for infotainment but everything else no thank you.

Ps. Blackberry had the same problem. The keys were too small, and the technology proprietary even to the extent of the email server connection.

 

[Eric5h5]

An EV over and ICE automobile is not going to make a difference in relation to saving the planet

A single one, no, but all of them, absolutely yes. It's not the only thing necessary, but it's a reasonably significant part. Gasoline will always pollute; electricity can be made entirely from renewables. Even if you live somewhere that uses a lot of fossil fuels to generate electricity now, that can and will change. It's pure denialism to claim otherwise.

 

[Apple fanboy]

A single one, no, but all of them, absolutely yes. It's not the only thing necessary, but it's a reasonably significant part. Gasoline will always pollute; electricity can be made entirely from renewables. Even if you live somewhere that uses a lot of fossil fuels to generate electricity now, that can and will change. It's pure denialism to claim otherwise.

Absolutely 100% correct. We all have to do our bit.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’ll buy an EV when they offer better range and I can get a decent spec car on the secondhand market. Not interested in paying more than £25k on any car, so I guess i’ll carry on driving a diesel until the car market gets a little more realistic about supplying the average motorist with a decent sized, affordable family car. Right now I just observe with interest and enjoy the experiences from a few people, not all, but those I value opinions from

 

[MmkLucario]

Does nuclear energy count as clean energy?

 

[QCassidy352]

Couldn’t disagree more. Touchscreens are perfect for a phone. They are not perfect for everything.
Cars are much safer with physical buttons.
Especially for the most used functions.

You keep talking about touchscreens being less safe (much less safe!) than buttons in a car. I’m curious if you have any data to back that up, such as data showing more crashes, or just more distracted-driver crashes, in cars with fewer buttons/a primarily touchscreen interface? Because I have not seen such data, and it’s neither my experience nor intuitively true.

I can see how it would be a safety issue to navigate through a bunch of submenus, but flicking your eyes to the right for a split second to see a button on the screen? How is that any different than glancing at turn by turn navigation, which everyone constantly does in all kinds of cars?

Apologies if you’ve stated this elsewhere in the thread, but how much time have you spent driving a Tesla or other touchscreen-based vehicle? Because your comments are just like what I used to say until I had one.

 

[Vref]

My Model 3 feels a heck of a lot quicker/lighter than my Civic ever was. LOL I know I'm comparing apples to oranges but, the M3 takes corners 2-3x faster than my Civic did. The M3 feels a lot lighter too despite it being a lot heavier (suspension feel, quickness, how it turns, etc).

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying, lol. I've been in quick cars that can corner really well.

The guy who V8 swapped one said it lost 1,000lbs

That’s a LOT of weight


Personally if I lived and only drove in a 15min city with a nuclear plant close and one that didn’t sell energy to everyone else, I’d debate it

But if you’re out in the country or like the twisty roads, electric ain’t it, at least until we maybe have a quantum leap in battery tech

 

[Vref]

You keep talking about touchscreens being less safe (much less safe!) than buttons in a car. I’m curious if you have any data to back that up, such as data showing more crashes, or just more distracted-driver crashes, in cars with fewer buttons/a primarily touchscreen interface? Because I have not seen such data, and it’s neither my experience nor intuitively true.

I can see how it would be a safety issue to navigate through a bunch of submenus, but flicking your eyes to the right for a split second to see a button on the screen? How is that any different than glancing at turn by turn navigation, which everyone constantly does in all kinds of cars?

Apologies if you’ve stated this elsewhere in the thread, but how much time have you spent driving a Tesla or other touchscreen-based vehicle? Because your comments are just like what I used to say until I had one.

Flying planes, I’m not a huge fan of touch screens in turbulence when it comes to my panel

On a car I think Cadillac had it nailed, few years back it was a touch screen kinda, all touch, but the buttons were dedicated and had feedback, looked sexy and worked great

Black part sensed your touch, silver was just a guide

 

[BigMcGuire]

The guy who V8 swapped one said it lost 1,000lbs

That’s a LOT of weight


Personally if I lived and only drove in a 15min city with a nuclear plant close and one that didn’t sell energy to everyone else, I’d debate it

But if you’re out in the country or like the twisty roads, electric ain’t it, at least until we maybe have a quantum leap in battery tech

I imagine my feeling of lightness comes from the first car I've owned that actually has power. I've been driving Sunfires, Minivans, and Civics my entire life. 1000 pounds is a lot. lol. Amazing even after all that "the finished product (V8 Tesla) wasn't as fast (as the Tesla)." Kinda cool "Every car I build I keep." Thanks for the link.

 

[Tagbert]

As an EV driver I agree with you. It always makes me raise an eye brow as a minimum when EV drivers says they buy their new car and protecting the environment. Bollocks, no new car is better for the environment. And the other myth is regarding maintenance. Sure there is no engine oil change, nor spark plugs, but everything else still needs doing. Ultimately it’s just a car.

As long as my fellow EV drivers aren’t honest about such matters they aren’t convincing anyone.

Now the fact is that it’s often a really good drive and just awesome car. Surely that is enough?

@BigMcGuire
A new EV still produces less CO2 over its lifetime than continuing to operate a use ICE vehicle. Yes, there is energy need to manufacturer the vehicle but that is offset in the first few years of operation. After that the EV pulls ahead quickly. Meanwhile that used ICE continues to burn gasoline and puts out CO2. Unless that used ICE is a Prius, then the energy to produce it is much less than what is required to fuel it for all its years of operation.

“New EV vs. old beater: Which is better for the environment?”

New EV vs. old beater: Which is better for the environment?

EVs require more energy to build, but they are far more efficient to operate.

arstechnica.com

 

[Tagbert]

Does nuclear energy count as clean energy?

From a CO2 production standpoint, yes.