Sure with an older car, if you are not looking to replace the car, you can replace the head unit to make it wireless Apple CarPlay compatible. But not something I want to get into.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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should be possible, take a look in this subform:
HomePod, HomeKit, CarPlay, Home & Auto Technology
Home automation, in-vehicle systems, Internet of Things, etc.
forums.macrumors.com
I hadn't noticed that there are now 25 Tesla chargers open in the UK for non Tesla drivers. As they are cheaper than most of the others I will try one the next time I'm driving further from home.
www.tesla.com
I'll still prefer to charge at work for around 0p per KWH though!
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Low quality materials? Maybe not the word phrase. Lesser premium materials I would agree, but in places you touch rest our human bits on they feel great and look good. Yes the top of the dashboard to the windshield has the scratchy plastic where nobody touches, yes my Jag and my BMW has nicer plastic there. But both of those cars cost 3 times more and had less features than the basic Hyundai Elantra.
yes the bottom door plastic I not as appeasing as a more expensive luxury car, but the "quality" is just as good. Everyone gushes over Toyota and Honda's quality but they exclusively use the scratchy plastic everywhere even the places you touch constantly.
The K5 is nice but like all sedans that go for that swoopy back section really limit head room for the back seat and front. Form over function.
Ok, I can concede that in this context, low quality is lesser or non-premium materials. I think Kia is amazing compared to a Toyota or a Suzuki or Honda, and they've come a long way. And are in my opinion surpassing them. Still not amazing compared to typical German or Swedish brands.
I have owned several German vehicles over the years. Every one of them has had some form of early wear on the "premium" finish. From soft touch buttons getting sticky, dash/trim cracks, to squeaks. German vehicles are great when they are new, but quickly lose their premium feel after 2-3 years.
I'll take the non-premium finish that looks and feels great for years over the German temporary premium finish.
I keep my vehicles looking new. I can't tell you the number of interior trim pieces I have replaced in German vehicles.
*This is my experience having owned MBs, Audis, and BMWs.
I've been driving VW for a several years now, and haven't experienced any interior issues with my Tigan, or my Passat prior to that, but I did have buttons constantly failing on the Passat (hatch, window, door locks, etc.).
Looking at buying an id.4 next year, but kinda waiting for VW to add the NACS charging port, that and solar-panels on the house...which has to wait until our roof is replaced next month. I don't want a Tesla, nor a Kia... Not sure what other electric small SUVs that are worth it.
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NACS looks to be added in 2025 (prolly on 2026 model years).
Since VW shares a lot of hardware with Audi, the soft touch buttons, cracked wood trim (without abuse), arm rest latch, arm rest "leather" cracking, glove box slow open/close shock, coins falling behind the lid where the coin holder is, water damage on the RSN-E from the cup holder above the unit or card holder getting stuck open (for units without the above cup holder), are all issues of the B6/7 A4 and the VW/Seat equivalent.
Oh, and the day before I traded in our B7 A4 for my TMY, the seat back adhesive failed and it fell (I had to double sided tape it back in place).
Blimey, you are talking about 20 years ago. I had a B6 A4 as well, and yes the glovebox was very vulnerable and I also had the arm rest latch fail. But to be fair, that was specific to that car and eBay had many fix kits for it. And the design originated from the late 90s for those cars. Mine was a quattro sport, didn't have wood trim, but I had no cracking leather, as it is a natural product I kept it moisterised. And the cup holders were indeed in a stupid position, couldn't corner with a drink. And also RNS-E was super picky regarding SD-Cards.
But that was 20 years ago, and the same age non-german cars of its time were well, just a horrible place to be in. Remember those stupid sliding ventilation controls
Blimey, you are talking about 20 years ago. I had a B6 A4 as well, and yes the glovebox was very vulnerable and I also had the arm rest latch fail. But to be fair, that was specific to that car and eBay had many fix kits for it. And the design originated from the late 90s for those cars. Mine was a quattro sport, didn't have wood trim, but I had no cracking leather, as it is a natural product I kept it moisterised. And the cup holders were indeed in a stupid position, couldn't corner with a drink. And also RNS-E was super picky regarding SD-Cards.
But that was 20 years ago, and the same age non-german cars of its time were well, just a horrible place to be in. Remember those stupid sliding ventilation controls
Yeah, I just picked a specific example from a car I had and kept immaculate until I traded it in. The items I was talking about on that car were things that went wrong fairly quickly into ownership (not like they lasted 15 years, and in the 16th year they went bad). Here the B7 A4's at least with the 2.0T engine only had leather on the seat tops, the sides and anywhere that you didn't touch sitting were vinyl. Because of this, the seams between the two were more likely to go.
Newer German cars are subject to other issues, maybe not the same as with the B7 A4. There is a price you have to pay for these German cars, it's usually in parts that are great new, but don't last like the Japanese manufactures.
Another older car an e46 BMW, I had to redo the headliner, replace the driver's window regulator 2x (with OEM BMW), rewire the taillights, replace cracked wood trim, fix the sunroof cassette, fix the drain to the sunroof cassette, swap the cooling system components all out, swap out leaky valve cover gaskets, rear main seal, and oil pan gasket.
If you look at the Honda/Toyota equivalent from the 2000 - 2010 these same internal components are likely still functioning as designed.
I do not have personal ownership experience with 2010+ German cars, most of my friends with them have issues and typically stick to owning them in their first 5 years, after that they quickly require $$ to maintain. To be fair, they will list, it just requires more money than their Japanese/Korean equivalents.
I like German cars (I've owned more German vehicles than any other), I know what I am getting into though.
Circling back to EVs, I get the attraction to German EVs fit and finish, but I prefer a little less "luxury" now for longevity and reliability. I also am not a modern S class buyer, so in reality, the gap isn't as far between German and non-German manufactures now (3-series, A4, C-class). There is no question that an S-class is worlds ahead of others, but that's not the world I live in...
I’ve always had good experiences too. I’ve owned cars from VW, BMW, Mercedes and Audi. The Merc was probably the least premium inside, but nice enough. Not had any issues with rattles and poor interior quality and all my cars have been 3+ years old. My daily driver now is a 2015 Audi A4 (B8.5) and admittedly it’s got obscenely low mileage for its age, it’s a solidly built car. It’s usually the sensors and gearboxes that are less reliable on German cars in my experience. They are just a lot nicer to drive than Japanese cars IMO.
Well, as an IT expert , I use a vintage Mercedes W123 200D , here in estrn-europe. It's my first car , have it since 2005.
Most of my issues and repairs except for tech(pc,laptops,phones,soft,etc) , is on cars (normal ones) and most of the time the electrical stuff fail or corode ,( and it's not even payed as well as pc-repair).
I had a truck(Datsun(Nissan) D21 Hardbody TD25 -1989 for daily driver 2009-2021 - Never missed a beat /bit , I was sad to sell it. I also owned(used) from the company new Ford Ranger 2013-2015 3.2 Limited manual (verry non-fuel-efficient) nice truck tough , it rusted fast, same with D23 Nissan Tekna spec 190hp manual, I sold that one at a loss in 2022.(they were under waranty when I sold them , had 10.5k on ford and 38 or so k km on the Navara). After that I got a cheap Renault Megane 1.5 dci 86hp , (total problem vehicle - never buy a 02-03-early04 megane) , refurbeshed most of the electric system , still had issues , I sold that at more than 100euros loss after 1 year of ownership).
Now, except for my mercedes , I got a Daewoo Cielo(nexia) ,'96 made in korea, from a single owner who passed away(2 years ago -sadly). Verry good car , not even 90k km on it , I'm keeping that for a while. Maybe I can make it vintage like my merc , it has soon 30 years.
I can't even imagine myself buying electric (laptop) car. It's Quite enough to repair normal cars and laptops, not all-in one with no software to be found to diagnose , let alone fix....
Car is for driveing not fixing.(or even worse updateing).
A friend of mine has a Nissan Leaf taxi , and he's sometimes happy sometimes depressed for the 40+K euro purchese.(he even had to fix the leaf onece because a colegue ran it up a tree back-end , and there were no parts available , cost more than 2 of my old bangers to fix).
He's only hope is if battery goe's bad he still under waranty to change it. (rolf).
Initially it was cost efective , but budgets for klunkers locally ran out, prices on EV are 100x more than a banger, and no one knows how to fix them (not even I with software engineer degree). Charging was free but now they are starteing to ask for $ for you to charge the EV. (so it's more cost efective a cheap petrol vehicle).
here 93 petrol is 20c cheaper than diesel , so it's not even worth the risk of buying a diesel anymore.
Now car tax will be about the same for petrol (below 1.5 liter's engine) or EV.
I think insurance is even more expenive on EV because it's newer vehicle , so I am unsure if it's anything worth about EV.
I always say "If you want to ruin a person's EV , just let loose a mouse under the cable's".... (little joke).
L.E. Some photos,and my dodgy electrics,(injector connector)on the renault...(was such a mess,electrically)
Most of my issues and repairs except for tech(pc,laptops,phones,soft,etc) , is on cars (normal ones) and most of the time the electrical stuff fail or corode ,( and it's not even payed as well as pc-repair).
I had a truck(Datsun(Nissan) D21 Hardbody TD25 -1989 for daily driver 2009-2021 - Never missed a beat /bit , I was sad to sell it. I also owned(used) from the company new Ford Ranger 2013-2015 3.2 Limited manual (verry non-fuel-efficient) nice truck tough , it rusted fast, same with D23 Nissan Tekna spec 190hp manual, I sold that one at a loss in 2022.(they were under waranty when I sold them , had 10.5k on ford and 38 or so k km on the Navara). After that I got a cheap Renault Megane 1.5 dci 86hp , (total problem vehicle - never buy a 02-03-early04 megane) , refurbeshed most of the electric system , still had issues , I sold that at more than 100euros loss after 1 year of ownership).
Now, except for my mercedes , I got a Daewoo Cielo(nexia) ,'96 made in korea, from a single owner who passed away(2 years ago -sadly). Verry good car , not even 90k km on it , I'm keeping that for a while. Maybe I can make it vintage like my merc , it has soon 30 years.
I can't even imagine myself buying electric (laptop) car. It's Quite enough to repair normal cars and laptops, not all-in one with no software to be found to diagnose , let alone fix....
Car is for driveing not fixing.(or even worse updateing).
A friend of mine has a Nissan Leaf taxi , and he's sometimes happy sometimes depressed for the 40+K euro purchese.(he even had to fix the leaf onece because a colegue ran it up a tree back-end , and there were no parts available , cost more than 2 of my old bangers to fix).
He's only hope is if battery goe's bad he still under waranty to change it. (rolf).
Initially it was cost efective , but budgets for klunkers locally ran out, prices on EV are 100x more than a banger, and no one knows how to fix them (not even I with software engineer degree). Charging was free but now they are starteing to ask for $ for you to charge the EV. (so it's more cost efective a cheap petrol vehicle).
here 93 petrol is 20c cheaper than diesel , so it's not even worth the risk of buying a diesel anymore.
Now car tax will be about the same for petrol (below 1.5 liter's engine) or EV.
I think insurance is even more expenive on EV because it's newer vehicle , so I am unsure if it's anything worth about EV.
I always say "If you want to ruin a person's EV , just let loose a mouse under the cable's".... (little joke).
L.E. Some photos,and my dodgy electrics,(injector connector)on the renault...(was such a mess,electrically)
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Fair enough, it will be at least another 25 years before you become a target customer for EVs
It is not for everyone, personally I prefer my daily drivers not to be cars I have to fix all the time. I would also not be so concerned about the electrics, as I'm sure you'll know from the W123 the print boards, relays etc dry out on the old cars. And if you are handy with a soldering iron it is not that hard to fix them again. Sure on the newer EVs it is a bit more refined, but also doable. Software is already becoming available, there are some interesting tools for the Polestar that allow it to be reconfigured in different regions. Techniques are not to dissimilar as with those older cars, like with the VAG cars you had to look in the hex code for the embedded passwords, or older BMWs you can just lift the EPROM off and read/write new ones, now you just need to use Wireshark and intercept the network traffic to get the passwords and unlock the modules. It's a slightly different mindset, but effectively just different tools.
It is not for everyone, personally I prefer my daily drivers not to be cars I have to fix all the time. I would also not be so concerned about the electrics, as I'm sure you'll know from the W123 the print boards, relays etc dry out on the old cars. And if you are handy with a soldering iron it is not that hard to fix them again. Sure on the newer EVs it is a bit more refined, but also doable. Software is already becoming available, there are some interesting tools for the Polestar that allow it to be reconfigured in different regions. Techniques are not to dissimilar as with those older cars, like with the VAG cars you had to look in the hex code for the embedded passwords, or older BMWs you can just lift the EPROM off and read/write new ones, now you just need to use Wireshark and intercept the network traffic to get the passwords and unlock the modules. It's a slightly different mindset, but effectively just different tools.
I had 0 electricall work on Mercedes since 2005... only 1 bulb signal died in all those years... I can't say that on the rest, merc is on it's class of it's own... (i did have body work done, rust is a enemy ,but it's sorted ).Fair enough, it will be at least another 25 years before you become a target customer for EVs
It is not for everyone, personally I prefer my daily drivers not to be cars I have to fix all the time. I would also not be so concerned about the electrics, as I'm sure you'll know from the W123 the print boards, relays etc dry out on the old cars. And if you are handy with a soldering iron it is not that hard to fix them again. Sure on the newer EVs it is a bit more refined, but also doable. Software is already becoming available, there are some interesting tools for the Polestar that allow it to be reconfigured in different regions. Techniques are not to dissimilar as with those older cars, like with the VAG cars you had to look in the hex code for the embedded passwords, or older BMWs you can just lift the EPROM off and read/write new ones, now you just need to use Wireshark and intercept the network traffic to get the passwords and unlock the modules. It's a slightly different mindset, but effectively just different tools.
If i'm not the target customer( A car nut'),than I wonder who Is? These days ,as on laptops, ev repair is proprietary,so it's hard with them... will see how well they age,I don't see many japanese 90s hybrids around...And used ev can't be really sold without big losses..(so it's a niche market still),and as people are becoming poorer,by day(even here), totally DIY repairable vehicles (mostly cheap small petrol) hold best there value(or go up).
I'm not sure non-German EVs have more wiring than ICE vehicles. If they do, this is about to change with the release of the Cybertruck and Tesla releasing the instructions for how to run a 48V system. With Tesla at least, they have done a really good job of reducing wiring which in turn reduces production costs.
Also, as someone who has owned old and new cars (mainly German), it's a lot easier to diagnose issues with my Teslas, the fault codes pop up on the screen, or are easily accessible via the Service menus (Tesla released to the public how to access the Service Menu). The items that it doesn't cover are the mechanical issues (control arms, physical things) which exist on all vehicles (worse on ICE since there are a LOT more mechanical parts).
Try resolving an issue with a modern ZF transmission, basically you just replace it...
Let that same mouse loose on a German ICE car, that basically will total out the vehicle...
I only hope water won't sipp in to corode the tesla.... I hear they are same issues as on my old 80's-90s vehicles.( I have a great mecanic who specializes in ZF , mostly X5 bmw-u one's , true he changes electrics(computers) on them 90% of the time because of high faileur of the module). - he told me to buy japaneze (they gone up in price last 20months), but I can't find anything worth buying at a decent price so I'm stuck with what I have or access to.
L.E. Remember , where I live there are no highways , (thats 3-500 km away from me) and I do 90% city driveing.(most city roads look like rallystage's gravel asphalt and load's of potholes). You can brake a 2 tone Pickup in 5 days (made indistructible , shocks , brakes, articulation/dirrection etc). - it's like Australia's Outback here....
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haha yeah apparently so, I did not look at the date when it came up as a link from the main page.This has been a long running thread. You are doing some archeology there.
If you have a factory LCD you might be able to buy a module which adds the features and lets you stay with the OEM dash
Exactly what I was about to say. All modern cars have a lot more electric components and software updates regardless of the drivetrain power source.
I’d still say with many less components an EV should last significantly longer. Time will tell I guess.
what's the point... you have your phone in your pocket , with evrtyhing there.... seems usless on a car. (even my front panel mp3 player pioneer managed to brake,on merc , unable to close it and find the missing broken plastic - I suppose I should start searching for a original blaupunkt radio-casset...).
Generally as I am aware, most modern cars are capable of getting software updates. How they get those software updates is another matter. Some have to be plugged into specialized equipment. Others get over-the-air updates. My last car, had a wifi hotspot and was capable of getting over the air updates. In that time of ownership, I may have had 2 "system" updates and 2 map updates. I don't think the system updates affected more than the infotainment functions.
Tesla sends out updates every few weeks. Some of them are jaw dropping, like increasing range with a software update. Rivian from what I understand also does a good job with software updates. And other BEV manufacturers are trying to get on board with regular software updates.
Well the W124 was, like many cars Mercedes has gone through a pretty bad patch as well. And even with current models I wouldn't touch anything below the E class, just isn't build to the same standards in my experience. It is deceptive as they keep it all looking the same/similar.
Someone who spends more money on their cars than you have been doing.
Let's be honest, with that list of cars you mentioned, they are all old bangers. It would be a big jump in that context to all of a sudden spend something like € 50.000 upwards on a car. You may be able to buy an old Nissan Leaf, but they are terrible cars, so I wouldn't recommend it other than using them as home power storage units, although they look ugly even standing still.
Also, part of reality is that a lot of people are getting a lot richer. A lot of money is being spent on vehicles and houses.
Just look at the other threads on here, 5K macbook pro's, fully specced studio macs, and then there are all these people moving away from GM to buy Porsches and Aston Martin's because GM doesn't do Apple CarPlay
I am guess it sees the colder weather and adjusting for that as well. My EV has a pretty big range difference between summer and winter. Winter can easily eat 20% of the cars range. Pure highway will eat even deeper.
My Mach E 270 range is based on 3.1 m/kWh but slight cooler temps and then me doing highway elevation increase reduces it to 2.4 range. Coming back it was 2.7 around town 3.2-3.3 often.