Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[cyb3rdud3]

ICE makers prior to EV’s technological jump.

My 2015 U-connect Ram received OTA updates for a few years, and occasionally they still do, but they basically wrote it off after 5 years. I sold the Ram. They added Siri/Android Auto buttons by long pressing the voice command button While I owned it In an OTA update.

Tesla Model S’ still get OS updates, since 2012??? Not sure of the exact year.

I think we will see support for a lot longer, now that these vehicles are much more “smart.” They run the risk of hacking, so for security, I think the manufacturers will have to support them much longer (at a minimum). But it is nice, with EVs at least, that new features are constantly added, this was very rare with legacy auto manufacturers (it did happen, but not to this extent).

It gets updates where the hardware supports it. That would be a more accurate and honest response.

For example Autopilot 1.0 cars just can't do the same things, as AP2.X, or AP3.0. But what is great and I wish more manufacturers did that, if you had a Full Self Driving optioned car it does include the hardware upgrades. Now whether that would still be supported once FSD is actually available is another story and anyone's guess.

Likewise the MCU1 hardware of a 2012 Tesla doesn't provide the same functions as the later MCU2 units available in a Tesla Model S or X. But again, although this time for payment, one can upgrade the hardware if one desires to have the same experience.

That upgrading hardware for infotainment and connected systems is the important part in my opinion. It annoys a lot of Polestar 2 owners that they can't do that to support the current versions of Android Automotive Operating System. The hardware back when the car was designed is just so not cutting it anymore, it would be great to just upgrade it and then get the latest versions.

 

[diamond.g]

Eh Tesla did the MCU hardware upgrade more or less one time. Now the new hardware is too different from the old so you have to buy a new vehicle.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Eh Tesla did the MCU hardware upgrade more or less one time. Now the new hardware is too different from the old so you have to buy a new vehicle.

I thought that MCU2 is still in 2024 cars like the Model S and X where it was introduced as the MCU1 originally.

But happily stand corrected if that is no longer the case.

 

[diamond.g]

I thought that MCU2 is still in 2024 cars like the Model S and X where it was introduced as the MCU1 originally.

But happily stand corrected if that is no longer the case.

Yeah all the cars are on AMD hardware now. They did the switch in 2021/2022 for the 3/Y and 2021 for the refreshed S/X. I think they used AP3 hardware until last year (they are separate boards).
Folks have asked to go from AP3 to AP4, but greentheonly on X has posted photos of the hardware and the connections are different now. Same with MCU3 (Intel) and MCU4 (AMD). Shoot there are two (3?) variants of the AMD hardware as well and they are not interchangeable from my understanding.


Regular automakers are not (or are very unlikely) to offer hardware upgrades for stuff that they could get you to buy a new car for. I remember when GM aded auto lane change and it was a non-backwards compatible hardware feature. I bet when their FSD equivalent launches (no longer called Ultra Cruise) you will have to buy a new vehicle to use it, even if the existing hardware is capable.

 

[Tagbert]

Yeah all the cars are on AMD hardware now. They did the switch in 2021/2022 for the 3/Y and 2021 for the refreshed S/X. I think they used AP3 hardware until last year (they are separate boards).
Folks have asked to go from AP3 to AP4, but greentheonly on X has posted photos of the hardware and the connections are different now. Same with MCU3 (Intel) and MCU4 (AMD). Shoot there are two (3?) variants of the AMD hardware as well and they are not interchangeable from my understanding.


Regular automakers are not (or are very unlikely) to offer hardware upgrades for stuff that they could get you to buy a new car for. I remember when GM aded auto lane change and it was a non-backwards compatible hardware feature. I bet when their FSD equivalent launches (no longer called Ultra Cruise) you will have to buy a new vehicle to use it, even if the existing hardware is capable.

It would nice if auto manufacturers would split their hardware and OS into a basic hardware control system and a separate unit holding the processor and OS to drive the UI. If that UI unit were modular and could be swapped out, it would let them upgrade it more easily. They might be able to use a standard port like USB-C to connect it and make it easy to swap. That would also force them to keep the communications defined such that an upgrade swap would be easier.

I know that they are not likely to do that as it would probably cost more and upgrading older cars does not directly benefit them very much, but it would be a welcome benefit to the users.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It would nice if auto manufacturers would split their hardware and OS into a basic hardware control system and a separate unit holding the processor and OS to drive the UI. If that UI unit were modular and could be swapped out, it would let them upgrade it more easily. They might be able to use a standard port like USB-C to connect it and make it easy to swap. That would also force them to keep the communications defined such that an upgrade swap would be easier.

I know that they are not likely to do that as it would probably cost more and upgrading older cars does not directly benefit them very much, but it would be a welcome benefit to the users.

Totally agreed. I know the polestar system is purely limited by processing power and memory. That should be easy to upgrade.

But then there are other systems like LiDAR sensors which I appreciate can not just be added neatly.

 

[diamond.g]

It would nice if auto manufacturers would split their hardware and OS into a basic hardware control system and a separate unit holding the processor and OS to drive the UI. If that UI unit were modular and could be swapped out, it would let them upgrade it more easily. They might be able to use a standard port like USB-C to connect it and make it easy to swap. That would also force them to keep the communications defined such that an upgrade swap would be easier.

I know that they are not likely to do that as it would probably cost more and upgrading older cars does not directly benefit them very much, but it would be a welcome benefit to the users.

That would be neat. Not sure if they could recoup the cost of said modularity.

I also would be curious to know if they have APIs for all the cpus in a car to interface with the infotainment system.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

That would be neat. Not sure if they could recoup the cost of said modularity.

I also would be curious to know if they have APIs for all the cpus in a car to interface with the infotainment system.

That wouldn't be hardware related when we are talking about a CPU upgrade for the infotainment system. And even if it is, running multiple versions of api calls is the easy part in 2024.

 

[HDFan]

and upgrading older cars does not directly benefit them very much,

Aren't service centers their most profitable divisions?

 

[Tagbert]

That would be neat. Not sure if they could recoup the cost of said modularity.

I also would be curious to know if they have APIs for all the cpus in a car to interface with the infotainment system.

I envisioned that the CPU for the UI would reside on the swappable module. It would talk to the rest of the car via apis. The car itself would need to run a realtime OS to manage the battery, motors, brakes, steering, etc. And to make those things available via the apis.

 

[Tagbert]

Aren't service centers their most profitable divisions?

I’m sure that they would charge for putting in a newer, higher performance processing module. The problem now is that those are mostly built in in such a way that they can’t be upgraded.

i envision it as being basically like a self-contained module with cpu, storage, RAM and I/O. When it gets old, pull it out and plugin a newer model.

 

[HDFan]

I’m sure that they would charge for putting in a newer, higher performance processing module.

That's the idea. They profit both from the labor and for the markup on the new module.

 

[diamond.g]

That's the idea. They profit both from the labor and for the markup on the new module.

I mean understand the idea (my car was upgraded to AP3). I just figure most folk won't want to pay the price the dealer is going to list, and the manufacturer may not be able to recoup the costs of making vehicles upgradable, which will lead them to drop the feature on newer version of vehicles.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I have had Tesla Retrofit the following, that were not available on my years TM3/TMY:

2019 LR TM3:
Newer Side Repeater Cameras (the newer cameras do not get nighttime light bleed from indicators)
Newer Driver's Side Wiper Arm (the newer arm has an additional spray nozzle for wiper washer fluid)
Power Trunk Retrofit (Not sure the year they added the power trunk, but at least my model and earlier had manual)

2021 LR TMY:
Biodefense Mode (added massive hepa pre-filter, and AC mode that creates positive pressure to keep outside air out)

I am waiting for the CCS Retrofit for the TM3, but they keep pushing that, it is available for older TMS/TMX now, there are also instructions on how to do the retrofit yourself. I am less worried about doing this with the move to NACS, but it would be nice for the TM3 to be able to "speak" CCS, since this is the new standard, regardless of plug.

Tesla is learning that customers are willing to pay to do upgrades. Originally, they were very strict about only putting original parts on the vehicles. I think eventually they will add everything to the list that doesn't require wire harness replacement.

For example, they will not do the TM3 trunk retrofit on vehicles with the older wiring harness that was on some 2018 and earlier vehicles, even though it is technically possible, it just requires a center console harness swap as well (some owners have done this swap already).

 

[Tagbert]

I mean understand the idea (my car was upgraded to AP3). I just figure most folk won't want to pay the price the dealer is going to list, and the manufacturer may not be able to recoup the costs of making vehicles upgradable, which will lead them to drop the feature on newer version of vehicles.

Yes, I think that is likely. This was just me wishcasting that something like this could be done so that we aren’t stuck with antiquates processors in our cars after a few years.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Oh dilemma's, dilemma's. For the next 1.5 years I'm likely 2 weeks in the UK and 2 weeks in the Netherlands before our home is (re)-build, children finish school etc. Now I really like my old 5.0 V8 Supercharged Range Rover, and it is super comfortable doing the journey. But with fuel at around €2.38 per litre, it is getting a bit silly. With my wife's Polestar 2 we've been across 9 European countries and are very familiar with EV. So, using my man-maths (which don't add up) I've decided and my wife and children convinced me 🤣 to get an interim cheap EV; one that is still comfortable to do those distances regardless of road conditions and weather, and is spacious enough to transport a variety of goods, and has all the creature comforts.

My typical routes are either to the south-east of England, and take the ferry or tunnel across the channel, then drive up through France, Belgium to enter the Netherlands. Or go to Harwich, UK (in the middle of nowhere) and take an overnight ferry to the Netherlands across the North Sea.

Oh, we do have a flat in the Netherlands close to our renovation but despite two parking spaces no charging and no option to get it installed. So public charging only. At our house in the UK we do have home charging at £0.09/kWh for six hours per day.

My short list is now a bit like this…

1. Jaguar iPace HSE / First Edition — Got to be an HSE or First Edition spec wise. Pro's are that it is ridiculously cheap with relatively low mileage cars. The main con seems to be that charging is limited to 100 kWh, and with a curve. So not quick to recharge. And it is the smallest of them all.

2. Audi e-Tron 55 S-Line/First Edition — Most luxurious of them all, nice to be in, quiet. But also the slowest to drive. And the worst efficiency. But the best charging curve where it can keep its 150 kWh for nearly the whole session.

3. Tesla Model X p 90/100D — Spacious, fast, and before May 2017 free charging with the car (unless it passed through second hand with Tesla themselves). Pros are obviously the potential for free supercharging, ludicrous mode, and level 2 driving assists of that area was head and shoulder above the rest (with AP2.x especially). Cons the mileage is typically always between 70-100K miles, compared to the others where it is at say 30-70K miles. And the second hand market prices are higher. Also, I would want the six seater, but the seats don't fold, so you'd need the 7 seater from late 2017, and then you'd lose the free supercharging.


Have I missed something obvious? A car to put in my list? Pros/Cons based on experience with these cars?

PS. Nope, I am not interested in a diesel, nor hybrid in this class for tax reasons.

 

[jz0309]

this is interesting, will have to wait and see

Ford to launch cheap electric cars in battle with Chinese rivals

Ford is to launch a range of cheap electric vehicles as it seeks to compete with Chinese manufacturers and Tesla.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[I7guy]

In spite of the anti-ev narrative, Evs are moving ahead. 2024 will bring a slew of new models, most of them not affordable to the mass market a most not subject to the Federal Tax Creit. There will be some like the Volvo EX30 that is in the right price range. Tesla’s best kept secret the Model 2 is somewhere. But the legacy automakers are nowhere to be found with affordable EVs.

The Chevy Blazer EV got panned and GM is hand building a $350,000 Cadillac Escalade? What?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

In spite of the anti-ev narrative, Evs are moving ahead. 2024 will bring a slew of new models, most of them not affordable to the mass market a most not subject to the Federal Tax Creit. There will be some like the Volvo EX30 that is in the right price range. Tesla’s best kept secret the Model 2 is somewhere. But the legacy automakers are nowhere to be found with affordable EVs.

The Chevy Blazer EV got panned and GM is hand building a $350,000 Cadillac Escalade? What?

I get the impression we get a lot more choice in Europe compared to the States with EV’s. Lots of small, affordable models coming through recently. Its needs to further improve though no doubt.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Just washed the car. Compared to my Golf it’s really noticeable how much less brake dust there is on the front wheels.
Regen braking makes your car easier to clean. Another plus!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Just washed the car. Compared to my Golf it’s really noticeable how much less brake dust there is on the front wheels.
Regen braking makes your car easier to clean. Another plus!

Last time I washed our cars (Beginning of Jan) I ended up bleeding from my kidneys and spent a week in bed and had more tests than I’d ever wish for. Not sure it was linked but it’s now a good excuse not to do it before the spring for me and I’m sticking with it.

Need to try a snow foam this year I think. Might try the one from Koch Chemie.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Last time I washed our cars (Beginning of Jan) I ended up bleeding from my kidneys and spent a week in bed and had more tests than I’d ever wish for. Not sure it was linked but it’s now a good excuse not to do it before the spring for me and I’m sticking with it.

Need to try a snow foam this year I think. Might try the one from Koch Chemie.

I’m pretty sure that’s not connected. Not unless you are using some very industrial type chemicals.

I don’t have a snow foam. I’ve considered one, but not really looked into which are karcher compatible etc.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’m pretty sure that’s not connected. Not unless you are using some very industrial type chemicals.

I don’t have a snow foam. I’ve considered one, but not really looked into which are karcher compatible etc.

Probably not. You can get some Karcher compatible guns on Amazon for less than 20 quid.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Snow foam is a prewash, not a wash. It can be great, it can be terribly if not setup correctly. Regardless, it is never a substitute for washing. Nearly every snowfoam lance on the market have a Kärcher connector. I like the one from DoDo Juice, very easy to setup, although it tends to use a lot but it nicely 'spray paints the foam easily'.

The mount is very good and rotates easily to keep the bottle always upright instead of rigid. Very useful when using the lance when cleaning the car.

Also note that snowfoam can work even better when you can control the pressure and the flow at source opposed to the bottle.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’ve seen a few videos and articles about rust being reported on the Tesla Cybertruck and it’s funny as I had a similar conversation with a colleague about this before I’d seen any reports. We were pondering over how stainless would react when used in a road environment as it’s a porous metal and is prone to other materials embedding in its surface. I assumed Tesla would have applied a sealant to the panels but clearly not.

Owners have run to YouTube to show off rust spots all over their Cybertruck with some assuming the material is rusting, when in fact it’s road fallout that will affect every car. However it’ll affect the Cybertruck to a more extreme extent due to the grain of the material, as opposed to paint and lacquer.

I use Autoglym Magma every year on my car and clay bar it to get rid of this sort of thing. Always comes up nice with paint. I’d imagine Cybertruck owners will be considering PTE wrap or ceramic coating unless Tesla offer a reasonable solution. I thought this was interesting as these cars are so new to market.