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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,216
Gotta be in it to win it
I’ve seen a few videos and articles about rust being reported on the Tesla Cybertruck and it’s funny as I had a similar conversation with a colleague about this before I’d seen any reports. We were pondering over how stainless would react when used in a road environment as it’s a porous metal and is prone to other materials embedding in its surface. I assumed Tesla would have applied a sealant to the panels but clearly not.

Owners have run to YouTube to show off rust spots all over their Cybertruck with some assuming the material is rusting, when in fact it’s road fallout that will affect every car. However it’ll affect the Cybertruck to a more extreme extent due to the grain of the material, as opposed to paint and lacquer.

cbba699db72b26968c544f55b077ed4f.jpg


I use Autoglym Magma every year on my car and clay bar it to get rid of this sort of thing. Always comes up nice with paint. I’d imagine Cybertruck owners will be considering PTE wrap or ceramic coating unless Tesla offer a reasonable solution. I thought this was interesting as these cars are so new to market.
I’m sure into things: 1) YouTube is the definitive source of truth and 2) if there’s an issue Tesla will determine how to fix it and it will be done quietly and 3) if this is a thing didn’t Tesla notice this in the years they had developing the cyber truck?
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,299
25,442
Wales, United Kingdom
I’m sure into things: 1) YouTube is the definitive source of truth and 2) if there’s an issue Tesla will determine how to fix it and it will be done quietly and 3) if this is a thing didn’t Tesla notice this in the years they had developing the cyber truck?

YouTube wasn’t the source where I read about this, I just mentioned it because there are motoring journalists talking about this on there. I saw it in an industry magazine through work initially and then read a bit more into it.

There is already an easy fix for this according to Tesla and it is similar to what I said before. They recommend regularly decontaminating the panels with appropriate iron and fallout removing products. They suggest clay barring and ceramic coating.

Stainless steel is rarely used on panels in the automotive sector, I’ve seen Rolls Royce use it for bonnets etc. the reason it’s rarely used is mostly down to weight, and its grain. Tesla chose it and it is unique, but will come with some issues, whether those are perceived as minor or not. As far as Tesla picking up on it in the testing phase, well I highly doubt they overlooked this sort of issue. If me and a colleague can think of it due to our experience was stainless, I’m pretty sure the engineers at Tesla did. They already have solutions to suggest so it’s clearly been anticipated.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,931
55,870
Behind the Lens, UK
YouTube wasn’t the source where I read about this, I just mentioned it because there are motoring journalists talking about this on there. I saw it in an industry magazine through work initially and then read a bit more into it.

There is already an easy fix for this according to Tesla and it is similar to what I said before. They recommend regularly decontaminating the panels with appropriate iron and fallout removing products. They suggest clay barring and ceramic coating.

Stainless steel is rarely used on panels in the automotive sector, I’ve seen Rolls Royce use it for bonnets etc. the reason it’s rarely used is mostly down to weight, and its grain. Tesla chose it and it is unique, but will come with some issues, whether those are perceived as minor or not. As far as Tesla picking up on it in the testing phase, well I highly doubt they overlooked this sort of issue. If me and a colleague can think of it due to our experience was stainless, I’m pretty sure the engineers at Tesla did. They already have solutions to suggest so it’s clearly been anticipated.
Maybe they didn’t think it would matter with such an ugly car? I mean polishing a cyber truck is like polishing a turd so to speak!
 

jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
11,350
29,933
SoCal
YouTube wasn’t the source where I read about this, I just mentioned it because there are motoring journalists talking about this on there. I saw it in an industry magazine through work initially and then read a bit more into it.

There is already an easy fix for this according to Tesla and it is similar to what I said before. They recommend regularly decontaminating the panels with appropriate iron and fallout removing products. They suggest clay barring and ceramic coating.

Stainless steel is rarely used on panels in the automotive sector, I’ve seen Rolls Royce use it for bonnets etc. the reason it’s rarely used is mostly down to weight, and its grain. Tesla chose it and it is unique, but will come with some issues, whether those are perceived as minor or not. As far as Tesla picking up on it in the testing phase, well I highly doubt they overlooked this sort of issue. If me and a colleague can think of it due to our experience was stainless, I’m pretty sure the engineers at Tesla did. They already have solutions to suggest so it’s clearly been anticipated.
What? No OTA update for this????
Sorry, couldn’t resist ;)
 
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Eric5h5

macrumors 68020
Dec 9, 2004
2,494
604
I’ve seen a few videos and articles about rust being reported on the Tesla Cybertruck and it’s funny as I had a similar conversation with a colleague about this before I’d seen any reports. We were pondering over how stainless would react when used in a road environment as it’s a porous metal and is prone to other materials embedding in its surface.
Well, there are a number of different types and grades for stainless steel. Looks like Tesla went with a lower-grade more corrosion-prone variant and not the corrosion-resistant type used for the DeLorean.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,299
25,442
Wales, United Kingdom
Well, there are a number of different types and grades for stainless steel. Looks like Tesla went with a lower-grade more corrosion-prone variant and not the corrosion-resistant type used for the DeLorean.

The grade Tesla used was very high, it’s not the stainless steel that is rusting as I explained. It’s the metallic debris, or fallout all cars encounter on the roads embedding into the grain and porous surface, giving the appearance of rust spots. We don’t know what the grade is precisely as Tesla keep it secret, but I doubt they’ve used a 430 grade or something low like that. It is definitely a high grade, but I am surprised the surface is not lacquered or sealed somehow. If you go out to your painted car and look very closely, you’ll see tiny orange dots. Those are exactly what these Tesla’s have encountered. The difference is with paint, it doesn’t spread and run through a grain. Stainless steel isn’t the best material for automotive panelling for this reason, unless it’s treated.

I worked for a company many years ago and I designed a stainless balustrade and cladding for a mansion close to the sea. It was all made from 316L stainless steel, which is marine grade. It encountered rust just like this and we realised it had become contaminated in the factory as metal dust from another section had penetrated the surface whilst someone was sanding. It all had to be stripped and sanded back at a substantial cost.
 

decafjava

macrumors 603
Feb 7, 2011
5,503
8,016
Geneva
I am also quite surprised Tesla didn't apply some sort of seal on the stainless steel - if I owned one I would be annoyed. Then again if I get a car again, it will likely be electric (or hybrid) and not a Tesla.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,216
Gotta be in it to win it
I am also quite surprised Tesla didn't apply some sort of seal on the stainless steel - if I owned one I would be annoyed. Then again if I get a car again, it will likely be electric (or hybrid) and not a Tesla.
My next car (for s/o) will be a Tesla or ICE vehicle. It depends on the circumstances at the time we decide to buy. I would not get a hybrid, to me they have the worst of both worlds.
 
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SalisburySam

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2019
921
809
Salisbury, North Carolina
I’m sure that they would charge for putting in a newer, higher performance processing module. The problem now is that those are mostly built in in such a way that they can’t be upgraded.

i envision it as being basically like a self-contained module with cpu, storage, RAM and I/O. When it gets old, pull it out and plugin a newer model.
Would very much like this. Unfortunately, advances aren’t only made in chips. Sensors too benefit from new designs and technologies, mitigated somewhat by regulations. And some sensors (radar, lidar, cameras, microphones, etc.) also have chips in them that get better over time. Secondly, connectivity advances as well. Wiring harnesses get replaced by flat wire ribbons or power-over-Ethernet designs, maybe even wireless like TMPS sensors as one example. Thirdly there are communications protocol upgrades such as 2g to 3g to Ng over time with different power and antenna requirements.

So upgrading a CPU and its associated parts is but one of at least four things needed for maximum benefit. The sensor suite, connections, and communications protocols all change too. Now we’re getting into some big bucks. Could all of this be made modular and changed at will? Sure, but at what cost. And the rest of the car is wearing out every day. And most owners change out their vehicles as wants and needs change.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,931
55,870
Behind the Lens, UK
Would very much like this. Unfortunately, advances aren’t only made in chips. Sensors too benefit from new designs and technologies, mitigated somewhat by regulations. And some sensors (radar, lidar, cameras, microphones, etc.) also have chips in them that get better over time. Secondly, connectivity advances as well. Wiring harnesses get replaced by flat wire ribbons or power-over-Ethernet designs, maybe even wireless like TMPS sensors as one example. Thirdly there are communications protocol upgrades such as 2g to 3g to Ng over time with different power and antenna requirements.

So upgrading a CPU and its associated parts is but one of at least four things needed for maximum benefit. The sensor suite, connections, and communications protocols all change too. Now we’re getting into some big bucks. Could all of this be made modular and changed at will? Sure, but at what cost. And the rest of the car is wearing out every day. And most owners change out their vehicles as wants and needs change.
This isn’t so different to Apple. If you want a computer where you can easily change RAM, HD or graphics card? Plenty to choose from.
If you want one where they are all designed to work well together then that’s what Apple sell. Hardware and software designed to work well together.

I don’t want a PC where that isn’t the case. I definitely don’t want an EV where it doesn’t work well together!
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,931
55,870
Behind the Lens, UK
My next car (for s/o) will be a Tesla or ICE vehicle. It depends on the circumstances at the time we decide to buy. I would not get a hybrid, to me they have the worst of both worlds.
Agree hybrids are the worst of both worlds, but unless my circumstances changed drastically I’d never go back to an ICE vehicle.
 
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za9ra22

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2003
1,441
1,931
The problem with hybrids (from my perspective having owned several) is that they are over-engineered solutions, and in this day and age where charging infrastructure is better and EVs are more affordable thanks to competition, I can't say I'd opt for a hybrid again if I were to buy a new car. I'd go EV without a doubt.

But for years, EVs were out of my price range by a long way, and there was nowhere to charge them on the road, so they weren't practical. ICE vehicles were not something I'd consider due to environmental impact and the economic impact of escalating fuel pricing. Since the ICE equivalent of my hybrid gets about 38mpg, and my hybrid closer to 70, the ability to keep driving past gas stations rather than having to keep stopping at them makes me feel a lot less hostage to (mis)fortune.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,238
7,271
Seattle
The problem with hybrids (from my perspective having owned several) is that they are over-engineered solutions, and in this day and age where charging infrastructure is better and EVs are more affordable thanks to competition, I can't say I'd opt for a hybrid again if I were to buy a new car. I'd go EV without a doubt.

But for years, EVs were out of my price range by a long way, and there was nowhere to charge them on the road, so they weren't practical. ICE vehicles were not something I'd consider due to environmental impact and the economic impact of escalating fuel pricing. Since the ICE equivalent of my hybrid gets about 38mpg, and my hybrid closer to 70, the ability to keep driving past gas stations rather than having to keep stopping at them makes me feel a lot less hostage to (mis)fortune.
I think the main use case for PHEVs would be in larger vehicles like trucks where current battery technology requires massive, expensive batteries. And while batteries are good for local driving and normal loads, those people who claim to be towing big boats every weekend are going to find it hard to accept the range loss. A PHEV might be the bridge technology for them, like it was for some of us with smaller vehicles several years ago.
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
13,429
Alaska
I think the main use case for PHEVs would be in larger vehicles like trucks where current battery technology requires massive, expensive batteries. And while batteries are good for local driving and normal loads, those people who claim to be towing big boats every weekend are going to find it hard to accept the range loss. A PHEV might be the bridge technology for them, like it was for some of us with smaller vehicles several years ago.
At least un the US, some of the Japanese brands, specially Toyota sell a lot of hybrid small cars. Toyota dominates the small hybrid car market in the US. Honda does well too. The non-pluggable Prius, and the Civic are popular, probably because the small engines don't consume a lot of fuel. For example, the 2022 Prius: 52 MPG x 11.5 gallons (in the tank) = 598 mile-range.
 
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diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,417
2,646
OBX
Not me. I’m waiting for the updates for the matrix headlight activation.
I saw that PoleStar isn't enabling it in the states because NHTSA apparently requires some hardware that the EU doesn't. I'm not sure if Tesla will ever (sadly).
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,057
1,387
Anyone here get FSD 12.2.1 yet?

I can't wait. But no, I'm still on FSD v11.4.9 (2023.44.30.14) on both my '19 TM3 and '21 TMY. v11.4.9 has been working very well for me, as I know it's quirks & flaws.

  • It is very hesitant at stop signs where other drivers may go and unprotected left turns.
  • It will slow down on the highway if someone in another lane is in their lane, but starts wandering over towards you.
  • It leaves more than a NYC gap in stop & go and flowing traffic (it is much safer than NYC drivers), which can let other drivers cut in in a dangerous way.
Knowing these things, you know exactly when you need to intervene. Most of these simply involve pressing the fun pedal, that's it.
 
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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,057
2,730
UK
Well, my quest continues to replace my old Range Rover 5.0 Supercharged with something sizeable and electric. My daughter came with me to the Netherlands this week and drove over herself in her Range Rover Evoque.

I had a test drive booked with Tesla for the Model X on Tuesday. Super easy to do online with the app, uploading of driving license and verification etc. Location was a bit horrible on a busy industrial estate. Car was ready upon arrival. Was greeted, walked around the car and said have fun.

Well, first issue was that the rear seat (was 7 seat model) could not lock in place and was broken. Second issue is that that new horizontal screen is partially blocked by the steering wheel. Annoyingly as the gear shifter is on the left of the screen implemented as an app you have to lean to the right to see it. But hey ho, it gets a bit better when you tilt the screen which is a cool feature. I guess they made it for the joke steering wheel and this car had a normal round wheel.

Off to drive, initial impression is that the throttle response is pretty strong but something you get used to. The one pedal driving is no where near as strong as what we have in our Polestar, but again something you get used to when driving more. I actually really liked the no indicator stalks, I immediately took to it, no problem at all. Superb implementation and works well together with what you do and how the car anticipates it.

But we were back in about five minutes, perhaps 10 minutes. The drive was horrible. Felt so unrefined. The wind noise I could deal with, although that really shouldn't be there on a €130K car. It was the ride quality, now I think something was wrong with it as surely such low-level vibrations shouldn't be there. I changed the suspension settings from manual low and medium, to auto and comfort, it was just always there. It wasn't like what you can get with safety assistance, it was like bad road surface but all the time. And then there was the unrefined air suspension. My gosh, it's bad and bumpy and not tuned well; terrible at taking traffic-calming road features, even worse when on those typical European cobbled streets, but also every single ridge in a tarmac or concrete road was noticeable. I really wasn't expecting that.

Oh, and then there was the sound system, it had clarity, I give it that. But just can't produce bass correctly, so muddled with no depth to it. But to be fair, it was radio, Bluetooth is supposed to be better, but to make it shine one got to use the USB ports.

I know I only had it for a short while, but I also didn't like the UI. I find it requires too many clicks, and the print is too small for use in a car when driving at speed.

However, what really got to me was the reaction of the Service Center, they were surprised about the car and acted in disbelief? Interestingly, two day later they got back to me and said that I was right and that vehicle has something wrong with it and was decommissioned as a demonstrator, and they are awaiting another one.

A real shame as range and size wise this was on paper the best option for my unique use case; wanting to drive without recharging from our house in the United Kingdom to our house in the Netherlands, whilst big enough to haul lots of stuff.

I've done some more research and won't discount them fully. It's a bit harder to find, but actually quite a few similar experiences that are similar. It appears that it really depends on what one was used to before this car. But the reports can be that the Raven version Long Range can be more compliant and refined, and even the even older 100D but requires mounts to be sorted, and good alignment performed. From what I see, the raven has half decent charging speeds and charging curve, but the 100D is a bit slow in that aspect compared to what we are used to with the Polestar.

I'll give them another chance, but the first encounter wasn't good at all.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,057
2,730
UK
On the Thursday, I had a test drive with an Audi Q8 eTron. Easy to book online with website, but did get a triggered sales call prior to the test drive as well. The whole process was more traditional and felt like you just have to go through the motions and smile and count to 10, and to 10 again. Dealership was in town in a nice area, but typically had no parking for customers with their forecourt full of their cars.

Anyway nice big showroom with as good as any version available. Still had to get my drivinglicense scanned and stored, so also traditional in the way it was handled. And that is the story through out.

I had a fully loaded Q8 eTron S Line with everything but night vision on it. The car just feels like a car, very similar to our Polestar. Everything is ergonomic and within reach. The virtual mirrors are nice, I liked them and got used to them quickly although I found it harder on the motorway to gauge the distance of other cars. But someone switched off all assists, so I switched them all on, and boom then there are super useful aids in those mirrors and on the dash.

Lane Keeping Assist also immediately kicked in without having to do special things or buttons, very smart. And yes, I didn't turn around. The ride and air suspension are brilliant. I tried it before in the Q7 and wasn't impressed, but this is different levels and equal to what Range Rover does. The car was super quiet and compliant on various road surfaces.

The throttle map is very different than the Tesla, it's gentle not like an on/off switch, and in combination with the refined ride quality your brain thinks its slow, very slow. Yet it goes fast very quickly, just with less fuss.

In every aspect this is a way more refined vehicle compared to a Tesla Model X. But the boot arrangement is rubbish, it's small, very small, my Labrador Retrieve wouldn't be comfortable in it, and it's silly high. So the handsome hound can only be on the back seats.

And then there is the range, Audi's technology (VAG technology) is not that great. The variations between Summer and Winter are huge compared to any other brand. And real world range compared to WLTP/EPA standard is also miles apart (pun intended). But to counter that, it has one of the best charging curves in the industry. It is as good as flat between 5-80%, just amazing to get the maximum speed through out, very few cars can do that.

I loved how it drives and makes you feel, but there is no way I could drive without charging. Then again with that charging curve it would need no more than 15 minutes to get home. But it is an extra stop.

PS. I'm not irresponsible, I don't drive none stop. There is a natural break as I have to take either a 2 hour or 8 hour ferry crossing. But sadly there is no charging at the waiting area for the ferries, nor on the ferry itself. If that was the case it would be an easy choice.

PPS. LOL And I spend another €570 this week on fuel for my Range Rover, it is getting silly...
 
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zagato27

macrumors 68000
Aug 10, 2003
1,541
3,653
The Hill
On the Thursday, I had a test drive with an Audi Q8 eTron. Easy to book online with website, but did get a triggered sales call prior to the test drive as well. The whole process was more traditional and felt like you just have to go through the motions and smile and count to 10, and to 10 again. Dealership was in town in a nice area, but typically had no parking for customers with their forecourt full of their cars.

Anyway nice big showroom with as good as any version available. Still had to get my drivinglicense scanned and stored, so also traditional in the way it was handled. And that is the story through out.

I had a fully loaded Q8 eTron S Line with everything but night vision on it. The car just feels like a car, very similar to our Polestar. Everything is ergonomic and within reach. The virtual mirrors are nice, I liked them and got used to them quickly although I found it harder on the motorway to gauge the distance of other cars. But someone switched off all assists, so I switched them all on, and boom then there are super useful aids in those mirrors and on the dash.

Lane Keeping Assist also immediately kicked in without having to do special things or buttons, very smart. And yes, I didn't turn around. The ride and air suspension are brilliant. I tried it before in the Q7 and wasn't impressed, but this is different levels and equal to what Range Rover does. The car was super quiet and compliant on various road surfaces.

The throttle map is very different than the Tesla, it's gentle not like an on/off switch, and in combination with the refined ride quality your brain thinks its slow, very slow. Yet it goes fast very quickly, just with less fuss.

In every aspect this is a way more refined vehicle compared to a Tesla Model X. But the boot arrangement is rubbish, it's small, very small, my Labrador Retrieve wouldn't be comfortable in it, and it's silly high. So the handsome hound can only be on the back seats.

And then there is the range, Audi's technology (VAG technology) is not that great. The variations between Summer and Winter are huge compared to any other brand. And real world range compared to WLTP/EPA standard is also miles apart (pun intended). But to counter that, it has one of the best charging curves in the industry. It is as good as flat between 5-80%, just amazing to get the maximum speed through out, very few cars can do that.

I loved how it drives and makes you feel, but there is no way I could drive without charging. Then again with that charging curve it would need no more than 15 minutes to get home. But it is an extra stop.

PS. I'm not irresponsible, I don't drive none stop. There is a natural break as I have to take either a 2 hour or 8 hour ferry crossing. But sadly there is no charging at the waiting area for the ferries, nor on the ferry itself. If that was the case it would be an easy choice.

PPS. LOL And I spend another €570 this week on fuel for my Range Rover, it is getting silly...
KIA EV9 perhaps?
 
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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,057
2,730
UK
Well, my quest continues to replace my old Range Rover 5.0 Supercharged with something sizeable and electric. My daughter came with me to the Netherlands this week and drove over herself in her Range Rover Evoque.

I had a test drive booked with Tesla for the Model X on Tuesday. Super easy to do online with the app, uploading of driving license and verification etc. Location was a bit horrible on a busy industrial estate. Car was ready upon arrival. Was greeted, walked around the car and said have fun.

Well, first issue was that the rear seat (was 7 seat model) could not lock in place and was broken. Second issue is that that new horizontal screen is partially blocked by the steering wheel. Annoyingly as the gear shifter is on the left of the screen implemented as an app you have to lean to the right to see it. But hey ho, it gets a bit better when you tilt the screen which is a cool feature. I guess they made it for the joke steering wheel and this car had a normal round wheel.

Off to drive, initial impression is that the throttle response is pretty strong but something you get used to. The one pedal driving is no where near as strong as what we have in our Polestar, but again something you get used to when driving more. I actually really liked the no indicator stalks, I immediately took to it, no problem at all. Superb implementation and works well together with what you do and how the car anticipates it.

But we were back in about five minutes, perhaps 10 minutes. The drive was horrible. Felt so unrefined. The wind noise I could deal with, although that really shouldn't be there on a €130K car. It was the ride quality, now I think something was wrong with it as surely such low-level vibrations shouldn't be there. I changed the suspension settings from manual low and medium, to auto and comfort, it was just always there. It wasn't like what you can get with safety assistance, it was like bad road surface but all the time. And then there was the unrefined air suspension. My gosh, it's bad and bumpy and not tuned well; terrible at taking traffic-calming road features, even worse when on those typical European cobbled streets, but also every single ridge in a tarmac or concrete road was noticeable. I really wasn't expecting that.

Oh, and then there was the sound system, it had clarity, I give it that. But just can't produce bass correctly, so muddled with no depth to it. But to be fair, it was radio, Bluetooth is supposed to be better, but to make it shine one got to use the USB ports.

I know I only had it for a short while, but I also didn't like the UI. I find it requires too many clicks, and the print is too small for use in a car when driving at speed.

However, what really got to me was the reaction of the Service Center, they were surprised about the car and acted in disbelief? Interestingly, two day later they got back to me and said that I was right and that vehicle has something wrong with it and was decommissioned as a demonstrator, and they are awaiting another one.

A real shame as range and size wise this was on paper the best option for my unique use case; wanting to drive without recharging from our house in the United Kingdom to our house in the Netherlands, whilst big enough to haul lots of stuff.

I've done some more research and won't discount them fully. It's a bit harder to find, but actually quite a few similar experiences that are similar. It appears that it really depends on what one was used to before this car. But the reports can be that the Raven version Long Range can be more compliant and refined, and even the even older 100D but requires mounts to be sorted, and good alignment performed. From what I see, the raven has half decent charging speeds and charging curve, but the 100D is a bit slow in that aspect compared to what we are used to with the Polestar.

I'll give them another chance, but the first encounter wasn't good at all.
Ok, test drove another TMX today. An older one, a raven. It was actually really good. That restored faith again.

Sound system still sounds rubbish; bass was woolly with no depth nor power just like the new one. The car had the driveshaft issue though which I know is a common problem, and B-pillar condensation. And the typical rear tyres inner wear. But other than that quite enjoyable.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,057
2,730
UK
KIA EV9 perhaps?
I actually really like the KIA EV9. The shame is that the current batch in the Netherlands seems to be missing options that I would want; mirrors, rear seat configuration etc. It is promised to come at a latter stage. It also means buying new, which I didn't really want to do yet, but it's not too much money.

I like it though. I know it has a lot of comments like "How much for a Kia!". But let's be real, there is nothing else of that size close to that kind of money. Mercedes EQS SUV will be loads more, Tesla Model X is loads more. Volvo EX90 entry level might come close, but I doubt it is as big with useable space. It is a lot of money, but also a good deal in my opinion.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,216
Gotta be in it to win it
I actually really like the KIA EV9. The shame is that the current batch in the Netherlands seems to be missing options that I would want; mirrors, rear seat configuration etc. It is promised to come at a latter stage. It also means buying new, which I didn't really want to do yet, but it's not too much money.

I like it though. I know it has a lot of comments like "How much for a Kia!". But let's be real, there is nothing else of that size close to that kind of money. Mercedes EQS SUV will be loads more, Tesla Model X is loads more. Volvo EX90 entry level might come close, but I doubt it is as big with useable space. It is a lot of money, but also a good deal in my opinion.
My son put a deposit(or a reservation?) on an EX90 to replace their xc90. Their garage is actually wired up with two NEMA 14-50s and their other car is a TM3.

Edit: maybe it’s me but I wouldn’t buy a Kia or Hyundai although they are popular on the road here.
 
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