Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[cyb3rdud3]

Are you talking about the Model 3 Performance, or Model 3 Type R, or Model 3 Track Pack, or Model 3 RS, or Model 3 GT3?

You don't care how most people use it? Fine. 99.9% of owners -- who will never visit a track -- don't care how you think it performs on the track. Whose opinion carry more weight?

All of cars you list are road vehicles, and sold as road vehicles, and many of them drive like POS on the road. Are you angry at that too?

Don't gatekeep who is a car enthusiast and who is not. Tesla will end this year with the best selling car in America, and the best selling car in the world. Maybe trying to appeal to the self-appointed "enthusiast" police isn't necessary?

Well yes they are great value for money amongst EVs. It’s no surprise it’s bestselling. That has always been a driving factor for the majority of the public. Just like Toyota is also a mass producer. And they serve a purpose, undoubtedly. Not my cup of tea though, just find them cheap, not that great to drive, not luxury, not sporty, not refined. But that is fine, as you say, Model Y has been a best seller. And they will be again with multiple anti trade measures again Chinese build vehicles. Competing on price alone doesn’t bode well for the future in my opinion.

 

[quagmire]

Are you talking about the Model 3 Performance, or Model 3 Type R, or Model 3 Track Pack, or Model 3 RS, or Model 3 GT3?

You don't care how most people use it? Fine. 99.9% of owners -- who will never visit a track -- don't care how you think it performs on the track. Whose opinion carry more weight?

All of cars you list are road vehicles, and sold as road vehicles, and many of them drive like POS on the road. Are you angry at that too?

Don't gatekeep who is a car enthusiast and who is not. Tesla will end this year with the best selling car in America, and the best selling car in the world. Maybe trying to appeal to the self-appointed "enthusiast" police isn't necessary?

If Tesla never stated the Model 3 Performance is track capable, I wouldn't be here saying what I am. Because there would be no point in complaining about a car that wasn't designed to do track days not being able to do track days. I am not complaining that the Camry is not a trackable car. Because Toyota has never said it to be able to do track duty.

I don't care what 99% use it because this is a discussion of how Tesla designed and stated the car is capable of. Would it be ok for Apple to state, " The iPhone 16 Pro Max can run the most demanding game at 120 FPS!" and when you actually run that demanding game, it can only do that 120 FPS for 10 seconds before it throttles down to 30 FPS because the A18 overheated? Even though 99% of iPhone users won't be using their iPhone that way?

And the listed vehicles are sold as road vehicles that are capable of going on the track. I would be curious how you view them as POS on the road? And please don't state personal tastes like it isn't fuel efficient, or the rides are not buttery smooth because this whole discussion has been about how they were designed, not what personally appeals to you.

I am sorry, but for those who see a car as nothing more than a Point A to Point B tool tend not to be car enthusiasts. No gate keeping about that. Nothing wrong with it as everyone has different tastes, hobbies, etc. But it's annoying to have people with those views talk down to people who have interest in cars and performance and how they drive, etc. Maybe they want a car they can take to the grocery store on the weekday and track on the weekend. And you bringing up how Tesla is going to have the best selling car is just that talking down attitude.

My wish wasn't for more sporty EV's. It's them taking performance more seriously. Stop bragging about the hero laps. Either focus on being economical transport and forget about performance and bragging how the car can do on a track, or actually put the effort in to make the car track capable. The end. Simple.

 

[diamond.g]

That's another thing.....

They use both methods for 0-60 times. Just depends on the model.

The Model 3 LR's 0-60 is without rollout subtracted.

The Model 3 Performance is with rollout subtracted.

It makes the performance gap between the two bigger, but really closer together especially if one buys acceleration boost on the LR.

But other manufacturers pull similar stunts. To bring Dodge back into it, their performance figures require a prepped surface to get close to their claims. I will grant putting that power to just the rear wheels on non-prepped surfaces is a struggle, but there are similar asterisks when it comes to a manufactures claim to performance.

The Model 3 Performance is pretty much a Civic Si situation. It's just a faster version of the regular Model 3 with sportier accents, but it's a street-only car still.

To be fair the new Model 3 Performance can actually hit it's posted 0-60 time without needing to subtract rollout. You just have to not use track mode (it pulls power).

 

[quagmire]

To be fair the new Model 3 Performance can actually hit it's posted 0-60 time without needing to subtract rollout. You just have to not use track mode (it pulls power).

That's fair.

Tesla still has that stipulation on the website that says it is with rollout subtracted while the LR does not.

 

[diamond.g]

That's fair.

Tesla still has that stipulation on the website that says it is with rollout subtracted while the LR does not.

That is also fair. To be honest we were all pleasantly surprised it hit the numbers without rollout. It can also do a quarter mile under 11 seconds (again not using track mode cause it pulls power).

 

[I7guy]

As a car enthusiast, it frustrates me that EV manufactures don't seem to take performance vehicles seriously. Granted there are a few exceptions to my complaint( Taycan, Ioniq 5N), but part of the challenge in getting car enthusiasts to bite into EV's is that they are often one trick ponies and even then it can't be sustained. That is the second biggest hurdle EV's have with the car enthusiast. Biggest one is the lack of vroom vroom noises which I admit myself is something I love too with my Corvette.

Tesla is obviously once again the biggest guilty party here. Boasts about the performance of their vehicles, but it often is only in straight line performance, it isn't sustainable, it's all in the low speed regime and dies over 100 MPH, it's suspension lets it down, cooling sucks, and/or it is massively under-braked.

The latest Model 3 Performance is just another example in the sea of examples.

I find myself disagreeing with this post. IMO the enthusiast market is the wrong market to go after. The fact the $55k TM3P cannot track as well as a car costing minimum twice as much, such as a Taycan does not take anything anyway from the TM3P or from Tesla. It’s my opinion Tesla has done their homework and for 55k people buying the TM3P are not racing them on Nurburgring. It’s not a ding or criticism for Tesla as presented but rather a positive that a fast street car can be produced at a reasonable price that wins most stoplight races and drag races.

The fact there are no vroom vroom noises in EVs, save for some like the electric Challenger is a good thing imo.

The TM3P is not another example in a sea of examples it’s a car that has garnered a bunch of praise. Want to track the car in the Nurburgring the TM3P is not the car. No criticism on Tesla for this one.

 

[I7guy]

Camaro can be a daily driver, same with Mustang, Golf GTI, Civic Type R, etc.

They are also **** cars, save for the civic.

All daily drivers that are performance vehicles equipped with the proper suspension, brakes, and cooling to handle that performance.

None of them have any fit or finish imo. The civic is a nice car but take it in the nurburing.

What Tesla has done is make something that impresses the masses that is used to 0-60 times measured in years, but can only be done once or twice before it gives up and can't do it anymore.

Absolutely not true.

 

[quagmire]

I find myself disagreeing with this post. IMO the enthusiast market is the wrong market to go after. The fact the $55k TM3P cannot track as well as a car costing minimum twice as much, such as a Taycan does not take anything anyway from the TM3P or from Tesla. It’s my opinion Tesla has done their homework and for 55k people buying the TM3P are not racing them on Nurburgring. It’s not a ding or criticism for Tesla as presented but rather a positive that a fast street car can be produced at a reasonable price that wins most stoplight races and drag races.

The fact there are no vroom vroom noises in EVs, save for some like the electric Challenger is a good thing imo.

The TM3P is not another example in a sea of examples it’s a car that has garnered a bunch of praise. Want to track the car in the Nurburgring the TM3P is not the car. No criticism on Tesla for this one.

Once again missed the point I was getting at. If Tesla didn't say the car had track ready brakes, suspension for cornering, TRACK MODE, etc saying the car is track capable, I wouldn't be here.

The car is not track capable despite what Tesla wants to say.

If Tesla didn't say that, I wouldn't be here.

They are also **** cars, save for the civic.

None of them have any fit or finish imo. The civic is a nice car but take it in the nurburing.

Absolutely not true.

And I disagree with you. I loved my Camaro. Absolutely fantastic vehicle for what it was.

But I am not here to discuss cars when it comes to ones tastes.

I am here calling out BS claims. Those cars are track capable cars all priced around the TM3P. You don't need to spend $100K for a car that can go on the track. Nor do you need to have two cars. You can have a car that can go get groceries on the weekday and do a track day on the weekend.

The TM3P can't. If it wasn't promoted by Tesla as such, I wouldn't be complaining. Designed for different purposes. But Tesla is saying it can perform on a track. It can't.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I find myself disagreeing with this post. IMO the enthusiast market is the wrong market to go after. The fact the $55k TM3P cannot track as well as a car costing minimum twice as much, such as a Taycan does not take anything anyway from the TM3P or from Tesla. It’s my opinion Tesla has done their homework and for 55k people buying the TM3P are not racing them on Nurburgring. It’s not a ding or criticism for Tesla as presented but rather a positive that a fast street car can be produced at a reasonable price that wins most stoplight races and drag races.

The fact there are no vroom vroom noises in EVs, save for some like the electric Challenger is a good thing imo.

The TM3P is not another example in a sea of examples it’s a car that has garnered a bunch of praise. Want to track the car in the Nurburgring the TM3P is not the car. No criticism on Tesla for this one.

Agreed. Track cars and daily (efficient) drivers are not ever going up be good bed fellows. If you want a track car buy an Atom or Caterham.

 

[quagmire]

Agreed. Track cars and daily (efficient) drivers are not ever going up be good bed fellows. If you want a track car buy an Atom or Caterham.

Efficient......

Putting your own tastes into it. If you want a car that can be a daily and track capable, you're already going to go into it with that compromise that you're not going to get the best fuel economy or range. You can absolutely have both a daily and track car in one car. Because maybe you are not rich and can only do one car. So you buy a Civic Type R instead. Absolutely can be daily driven as it is still a Civic after all. But it can do a track day.

You view a daily as one that can do Point A and B as efficiently as possible. That is fine. But for people that are willing to sacrifice that for fun on the side, there is no need to buy a separate car.

But since this discussion seems to be going in circles, I am out.

 

[I7guy]

Once again missed the point I was getting at. If Tesla didn't say the car had track ready brakes, suspension for cornering, TRACK MODE, etc saying the car is track capable, I wouldn't be here.

The car is not track capable despite what Tesla wants to say.

If Tesla didn't say that, I wouldn't be here.

It’s not worth the debate in this thread. You are certainly entitled to your opinion of what “track capable” means. Tesla does not say “track ready or capable” on its website.

And I disagree with you. I loved my Camaro. Absolutely fantastic vehicle for what it was.

But I am not here to discuss cars when it comes to ones tastes.

I am here calling out BS claims.

There are no be claims. IMO you have taken away an incorrect impression.

Those cars are track capable cars all priced around the TM3P.

They are also junk cars. For 55k the TM3P will emabassball anthem in a drag race.

You don't need to spend $100K for a car that can go on the track.

How much for an electric car that can run the Nurburing?

Nor do you need to have two cars. You can have a car that can go get groceries on the weekday and do a track day on the weekend.

Which electric car for 55k?

The TM3P can't.

Which electric car can for that price?

If it wasn't promoted by Tesla as such, I wouldn't be complaining. Designed for different purposes. But Tesla is saying it can perform on a track. It can't.

Their website doesnt say that Kristie’s when you order the car that claim is not there.

 

[quagmire]

It’s not worth the debate in this thread. You are certainly entitled to your opinion of what “track capable” means. Tesla does not say “track ready or capable” on its website.

There are no be claims. IMO you have taken away an incorrect impression.

They are also junk cars. For 55k the TM3P will emabassball anthem in a drag race.

How much for an electric car that can run the Nurburing?

Which electric car for 55k?

Which electric car can for that price?

Their website doesnt say that.

One last reply..... From their press release when they announced the new TM3P....

Introducing the New Model 3 Performance | Tesla

Six years after the first Model 3 Performance deliveries, we are proud to launch the new Model 3 Performance: a highly differentiated performance trim that leverages Tesla’s latest manufacturing and engineering capabilities to create what we consider to be a perfect, high-performance daily driver.

www.tesla.com

Their brakes are so track ready, they overheated on turn 3 on lap 1 of throttle houses lap......

At least those junk cars actually have track ready brakes.

 

[I7guy]

One last reply..... From their press release when they announced the new TM3P....

View attachment 2428595

Introducing the New Model 3 Performance | Tesla

Six years after the first Model 3 Performance deliveries, we are proud to launch the new Model 3 Performance: a highly differentiated performance trim that leverages Tesla’s latest manufacturing and engineering capabilities to create what we consider to be a perfect, high-performance daily driver.

www.tesla.com

Their brakes are so track ready, they overheated on turn 3 on lap 1 of throttle houses lap......

At least those junk cars actually have track ready brakes.

When you order the car it does not say that. So that is really the gold standard even if Tesla claimed something else previously.

You’re more than welcome to criticize, not debating that, but I don’t agree with your criticism.

Edit: if you read the press releases they allude to better limits for brakes. The press releases don’t say the TM3P can run the Nurburgring.

 

[JT2002TJ]

TMS/X/Y/3 are all about being efficient EVs, more so with the 3/Y. Tesla did what every other company does, slapped some go fast bits on them and called them Performance/Plaid. They are more about being an efficient EV than about being a race car. They made EVs that are good for everyone, and Performance/Plaid that is good enough for 99% of those who want to go faster. I bet you 99% of performance owners have never even put it in track mode.

I have seen more Performance TMY’s in the NYC area that are taxi/Uber/… than non-commercial (because of the tax credit).

The average weekend track driver will never hit the absolute limit of even the LR models, yet alone the performance flavor.

Adding track oriented upgrades, and indicating that they make the vehicle better is 100% true to their word, it is better than ever. But is it a dedicated track car? No.

Use the right tool, for the job. If you want a race car, get a race car. If you want an awesome example of what an EV can do as a DD, and have some fun at a strip, or fun on a track, the new TM3P is plenty good enough, especially in the sub $50k market.

My next EV will probably be the new body style TMYP.

I will leave it at that.

 

[hobowankenobi]

TMS/X/Y/3 are all about being efficient EVs, more so with the 3/Y. Tesla did what every other company does, slapped some go fast bits on them and called them Performance/Plaid. They are more about being an efficient EV than about being a race car. They made EVs that are good for everyone, and Performance/Plaid that is good enough for 99% of those who want to go faster. I bet you 99% of performance owners have never even put it in track mode.

I have seen more Performance TMY’s in the NYC area that are taxi/Uber/… than non-commercial (because of the tax credit).

The average weekend track driver will never hit the absolute limit of even the LR models, yet alone the performance flavor.

Adding track oriented upgrades, and indicating that they make the vehicle better is 100% true to their word, it is better than ever. But is it a dedicated track car? No.

Use the right tool, for the job. If you want a race car, get a race car. If you want an awesome example of what an EV can do as a DD, and have some fun at a strip, or fun on a track, the new TM3P is plenty good enough, especially in the sub $50k market.

My next EV will probably be the new body style TMYP.

I will leave it at that.

This.

Got to test drive the new M3P. Limited on-street test, no real flogging, but a great balance of value, performance, and efficiency. Ended up buying the 3 LR as a commuter car...but I do want that P!

 

[4sallypat]

Just got back from a new So Calif Tesla Mega Supercharger location near my home!

Have never seen 64 Tesla Superchargers in one place (other than one in Arvin, CA).
Usually it's 12, 20 or 24 stations near my work...

This new location is very low in price too - $0.39/kWh all day - flat rate.

 

[jz0309]

Just got back from a new So Calif Tesla Mega Supercharger location near my home!

Have never seen 64 Tesla Superchargers in one place (other than one in Arvin, CA).
Usually it's 12, 20 or 24 stations near my work...

This new location is very low in price too - $0.39/kWh all day - flat rate.
View attachment 2429136
View attachment 2429137

which location is this?
I can't wait for Tesla to open up for Hyundai, have a Lectron adapter already, though, getting free charging at EA for 2 years is hard to beat

 

[4sallypat]

which location is this?
I can't wait for Tesla to open up for Hyundai, have a Lectron adapter already, though, getting free charging at EA for 2 years is hard to beat

Located in Claremont / Upland, CA off Arrow Highway.

GM just got access to Tesla.

So now the other brands should be soon....

 

[jz0309]

Located in Claremont / Upland, CA off Arrow Highway.

GM just got access to Tesla.

So now the other brands should be soon....

Yup, I bought that adapter for my Bolt, but then I couldn’t resist the Ioniq 5 that I got a week ago

 

[4sallypat]

Yup, I bought that adapter for my Bolt, but then I couldn’t resist the Ioniq 5 that I got a week ago

Your Ioniq 5 should have the faster charge part that can do over 300KW ?

Jealous that yours can take full advantage of the 250kW Tesla Superchargers.

Mine barely hits 120kW peak....

 

[jz0309]

Your Ioniq 5 should have the faster charge part that can do over 300KW ?

Jealous that yours can take full advantage of the 250kW Tesla Superchargers.

Mine barely hits 120kW peak....

Only had 1 roadtrip, charged from I think 49 to 90% in just under 16 min, peak was 231kW, at an EA 350kW station.
Bolt had a max of 54kW ;(

 

[4sallypat]

Only had 1 roadtrip, charged from I think 49 to 90% in just under 16 min, peak was 231kW, at an EA 350kW station.
Bolt had a max of 54kW ;(

I think yours can do more if you get access to the Tesla SC.

I thought EA & EVGo were fast - Tesla is just amazingly faster and higher rate of charger for longer.

 

[jz0309]

I think yours can do more if you get access to the Tesla SC.

I thought EA & EVGo were fast - Tesla is just amazingly faster and higher rate of charger for longer.

I will for sure give it a try, once I get access

 

[4sallypat]

I will for sure give it a try, once I get access

Road trip with my Ford EV - charging to 100% since there is no one waiting.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Road trip with my Ford EV - charging to 100% since there is no one waiting.

View attachment 2429652

Regardless of anyone waiting. That is highly inefficient for your own time. It would be quicker to add an extra stop to charge if you need it opposed to charge up and wait for it to go to 100%.