Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[4sallypat]

Except, for the time being, refueling gasoline takes 8m with no other downtime for that trip. The other two stops were thirty wasted minutes. And those thirty minutes isn’t including the wasted time off the freeway to actually drive to those supercharging stations.


Yes, an example that otherwise proves the rule.

When I was a youth, I could go for hours and do a quick refilling station stop.

Now, I have gotten older and my old bones need a rest every hour or two of driving.

It's nice to stop for an EV charge break and get a coffee, snack, lunch, potty break, pop an arthritis pill or anti-inflamatory drug, etc...

Love my stops at Tesla Superchargers more than ever as they are located immediately off the freeways.

This on is off Citrus & 10 Freeway in Covina, CA:

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Britain are the first country to end reliance on coal power and thus puts an end to the comments from the anti-EV brigade here that our cars are charged using coal.

End of an era as Britain’s last coal-fired power plant shuts down

UK’s 142-year history of coal-fired electricity ends as turbines at Ratcliffe-on-Soar plant in Nottinghamshire stop for good

www.theguardian.com

Or..... We'll spend the next 20 years being told coal power stations exist even when they don't much like diesel cars catching fire in airport car parks and it being blamed on electric vehicles because a meme says so lol.

 

[diamond.g]

Except, for the time being, refueling gasoline takes 8m with no other downtime for that trip. The other two stops were thirty wasted minutes. And those thirty minutes isn’t including the wasted time off the freeway to actually drive to those supercharging stations.


Yes, an example that otherwise proves the rule.

I have found that Tesla's navigation tries to have you stop as few times as possible, which makes you have to charge for longer. Coupled with having a smaller battery (the base model is like 58 kWh) means at high speeds you will not only have to stop a bunch, but you will have to charge higher/longer than those with the LR models.

I wish EPA would force putting the city and highway range on the Monroney instead of the combined range they use. Folks would then see that most EV's get better economy in the city and worse on the highways lessening the surprise when folks think their "272" mile EV only goes "180" when traveling at 90 mph.


There is one EV that gets a real 500+ miles of range to flat, but folks complain that it is too expensive.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I have found that Tesla's navigation tries to have you stop as few times as possible, which makes you have to charge for longer. Coupled with having a smaller battery (the base model is like 58 kWh) means at high speeds you will not only have to stop a bunch, but you will have to charge higher/longer than those with the LR models.

I wish EPA would force putting the city and highway range on the Monroney instead of the combined range they use. Folks would then see that most EV's get better economy in the city and worse on the highways lessening the surprise when folks think their "272" mile EV only goes "180" when traveling at 90 mph.


There is one EV that gets a real 500+ miles of range to flat, but folks complain that it is too expensive.

Wait what!? Base model is only a 58kWh version? Damn, I just looked it up, according to this it is only useable 40kWh. I did not appreciate that, no wonder they can do it so cheap. And yes that is not a 200+ mile car, I did not realise that in 2024 that kind of low capacity vehicle are still made. More so, that people actually buy those base models. I guess it is ok around town and when you have your own charger, but yes definitely wouldn't want to do a road trip in it.

 

[GrayFlannel]

When I was a youth, I could go for hours and do a quick refilling station stop.

Now, I have gotten older and my old bones need a rest every hour or two of driving.

It's nice to stop for an EV charge break and get a coffee, snack, lunch, potty break, pop an arthritis pill or anti-inflamatory drug, etc...

Love my stops at Tesla Superchargers more than ever as they are located immediately off the freeways.

This on is off Citrus & 10 Freeway in Covina, CA:

I have a strong results driven personality so no matter the mode of travel sitting idle drives me mad. I’m in my early 60’s so not young. I’m also firmly within the third stage of wealth and don’t tolerate what I perceive as a problem.

This was my only experience with an EV (other than Uber) and see that the technology just hasn’t evolved enough for yet for me.

One charging station was on the side of messy closed Target lot. Another was tucked inside the casino parking ramp, and the third was a couple miles off the freeway. Maybe these weren’t all superchargers but they were the most convenient stops per the car owners.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I have a strong results driven personality so no matter the mode of travel sitting idle drives me mad. I’m in my early 60’s so not young. I’m also firmly within the third stage of wealth and don’t tolerate what I perceive as a problem.

This was my only experience with an EV (other than Uber) and see that the technology just hasn’t evolved enough for yet for me.

Nah, it is a case of the wrong kind of car for the journey. I'm absolutely shocked that cars with such a small battery are still being sold. It really doesn't have to be like that. Typically, a modern car has double that in useable capacity.

One charging station was on the side of messy closed Target lot. Another was tucked inside the casino parking ramp, and the third was a couple miles off the freeway. Maybe these weren’t all superchargers but they were the most convenient stops per the car owners.

That sounds rubbish, not like that here in Europe. But considering the basic car, battery, perhaps the owners aren't as experienced either to make the correct choices.

 

[diamond.g]

I have a strong results driven personality so no matter the mode of travel sitting idle drives me mad. I’m in my early 60’s so not young. I’m also firmly within the third stage of wealth and don’t tolerate what I perceive as a problem.

This was my only experience with an EV (other than Uber) and see that the technology just hasn’t evolved enough for yet for me.

One charging station was on the side of messy closed Target lot. Another was tucked inside the casino parking ramp, and the third was a couple miles off the freeway. Maybe these weren’t all superchargers but they were the most convenient stops per the car owners.

If you are willing to spend the money there is an EV that actually has a real 400+ miles of range.

 

[GrayFlannel]

Britain are the first country to end reliance on coal power and thus puts an end to the comments from the anti-EV brigade here that our cars are charged using coal.

End of an era as Britain’s last coal-fired power plant shuts down

UK’s 142-year history of coal-fired electricity ends as turbines at Ratcliffe-on-Soar plant in Nottinghamshire stop for good

www.theguardian.com

Or..... We'll spend the next 20 years being told coal power stations exist even when they don't much like diesel cars catching fire in airport car parks and it being blamed on electric vehicles because a meme says so lol.

I strongly support eliminating all coal burning plants as fast as possible.

But when it comes to the British “anti-EV“ brigade simply point out the facts to them - that while the bulk of electricity does come from fossil fuel only a very very small percentage comes from burning coal.

 

[GrayFlannel]

Nah, it is a case of the wrong kind of car for the journey.

Exactly. Which is why in my experience will stick with gasoline cars and leave the EVs to the next generation when EV evolves more and the infrastructure is built out.

 

[4sallypat]

If you are willing to spend the money there is an EV that actually has a real 400+ miles of range.

Yup, and I am willing to wait a few years for the next gen EV with batteries that have longer range.

Very happy with my standard range - 250 miles - 70kWh battery.

 

[GrayFlannel]

If you are willing to spend the money there is an EV that actually has a real 400+ miles of range.

The hassles of EV ownership do not exceed their benefits. But for many people they do. If I had born been thirty years later I’m sure I would have been an EV owner. I don’t like change...even good change.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I strongly support eliminating all coal burning plants as fast as possible.

But when it comes to the British “anti-EV“ brigade simply point out the facts to them - that while the bulk of electricity does come from fossil fuel only a very very small percentage comes from burning coal.

I just point out that I don't drive an EV to be green and that alone confuses the hell out of them.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Exactly. Which is why in my experience will stick with gasoline cars and leave the EVs to the next generation when EV evolves more and the infrastructure is built out.

Almost any since 2019 can easily do that. But as I've just learned that particular one has a battery that is smaller than I have in my iPhone 16 Pro Max OK, slightly exaggerated but seriously small by current and past standard. It doesn't have to be that way.

 

[thettareddast]

Well yes they are great value for money amongst EVs. It’s no surprise it’s bestselling. That has always been a driving factor for the majority of the public. Just like Toyota is also a mass producer. And they serve a purpose, undoubtedly. Not my cup of tea though, just find them cheap, not that great to drive, not luxury, not sporty, not refined. But that is fine, as you say, Model Y has been a best seller. And they will be again with multiple anti trade measures again Chinese build vehicles. Competing on price alone doesn’t bode well for the future in my opinion.

The Model Y was a top global seller last year before any China specific tariffs; and the US trade measures floated this year is not yet in law; it was high seller before the China-battery rebate exclusion; and obviously it sold well in Europe too.

Point is, it's not been selling because it's the cheapest, and it doesn't need to be the trackiest to continue to sell.

If Tesla never stated the Model 3 Performance is track capable, I wouldn't be here saying what I am. Because there would be no point in complaining about a car that wasn't designed to do track days not being able to do track days. I am not complaining that the Camry is not a trackable car. Because Toyota has never said it to be able to do track duty.

I don't care what 99% use it because this is a discussion of how Tesla designed and stated the car is capable of. Would it be ok for Apple to state, " The iPhone 16 Pro Max can run the most demanding game at 120 FPS!" and when you actually run that demanding game, it can only do that 120 FPS for 10 seconds before it throttles down to 30 FPS because the A18 overheated? Even though 99% of iPhone users won't be using their iPhone that way?

And the listed vehicles are sold as road vehicles that are capable of going on the track. I would be curious how you view them as POS on the road? And please don't state personal tastes like it isn't fuel efficient, or the rides are not buttery smooth because this whole discussion has been about how they were designed, not what personally appeals to you.

I am sorry, but for those who see a car as nothing more than a Point A to Point B tool tend not to be car enthusiasts. No gate keeping about that. Nothing wrong with it as everyone has different tastes, hobbies, etc. But it's annoying to have people with those views talk down to people who have interest in cars and performance and how they drive, etc. Maybe they want a car they can take to the grocery store on the weekday and track on the weekend. And you bringing up how Tesla is going to have the best selling car is just that talking down attitude.

My wish wasn't for more sporty EV's. It's them taking performance more seriously. Stop bragging about the hero laps. Either focus on being economical transport and forget about performance and bragging how the car can do on a track, or actually put the effort in to make the car track capable. The end. Simple.

Type R is criticized for very harsh road ride. The Mustang GT is... uh... far from a Grand Tourer.

Your constraints on what qualifies something to meet a track claim is truly your constraints. Because few cars without a Porsche badge will reliably track without a minimum amount of mods. Brake lines, and pads, if not the entire rotors too, are extremely common upgrades, even for ///M cars. Mustangs often address cooling in the aftermarket. Golf R is sportier than GTI, but is still not "track".

You're gatekeeping who can be in the conversation (...only an enthusiast would know...), and what the conversation is about (i only care about track, dont talk about anything else).

The irony is, you even implied that most Ferrari and Corvette owners dont track their cars.

So all of this boils down to the summary that you gripe a car for not doing what 99.9% of owners and 99.5% of buyers don't want to do. Until Lotus and Caterham sells a million cars a year, there's a good reason to believe nobody should pay attention to this gripe.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The Model Y was a top global seller last year before any China specific tariffs; and the US trade measures floated this year is not yet in law; it was high seller before the China-battery rebate exclusion; and obviously it sold well in Europe too.

Point is, it's not been selling because it's the cheapest, and it doesn't need to be the trackiest to continue to sell.

Well it won't be selling because it is the best At least not in Europe as the charging network doesn't give an advantage over the competition, neither does build quality, nor ride, nor luxury, smart features aren't enabled either. Ahem, that leaves price 🤷‍♂️

 

[I7guy]

Except, for the time being, refueling gasoline takes 8m with no other downtime for that trip. The other two stops were thirty wasted minutes. And those thirty minutes isn’t including the wasted time off the freeway to actually drive to those supercharging stations.


Yes, an example that otherwise proves the rule.

No doubt road tripping in an EV requires more planning than an ICE. But it’s not “full doors ahead and damn the torpedoes” for either technology. And it’s true EV charging would take more time than an ice vehicle at a gas station. If you’re a road tripper and want the least down time an ev is not for you.

I haven’t road tripped yet. In fact I used a supercharger only once. My Tesla is a commuter car. Unlike the pump I pay $.15 per kilowatt hour. 1.50 daily to fill up my EV with no wasted time at the pump. I have already made my 8 minutes back. Haven’t brought my car to the dealer except once to get an alignment after I hit a bad pot hole. No oil changes.

 

[I7guy]

The hassles of EV ownership do not exceed their benefits.

For you. For me they do.

But for many people they do.

I live in a state where you can’t throw a stone without hitting an ev. Someone is buying them.

If I had born been thirty years later I’m sure I would have been an EV owner. I don’t like change...even good change.

Ah. I love change.

 

[I7guy]

If you are willing to spend the money there is an EV that actually has a real 400+ miles of range.

There are a few, but the one today with the longest range is the antithesis of advancing the ev market adoption.

 

[quagmire]

So all of this boils down to the summary that you gripe a car for not doing what 99.9% of owners and 99.5% of buyers don't want to do. Until Lotus and Caterham sells a million cars a year, there's a good reason to believe nobody should pay attention to this gripe.

The gripe is holding Tesla to what they claim. That is why I am throwing out what 99% of owners will use the vehicle.

The Cybertruck can't outrun a 911 while towing the 911......

As already stated, the Model 3 Performance doesn't have track ready brakes despite what they say.

I go back to my example of what if Apple said the iPhone 16 Pro Max can run a game at 120 FPS, but in reality can only do it for 10 seconds before it throttles back to 30 FPS for the rest of the time. Would you call out Apple over that or come back with excuses of, " Well iPhone is the best selling device in the world" or, " 99% of users don't play demanding games on their iPhone" or, " I would buy an dedicated gaming rig if I wanted to play games" as a defense to Apple's BS?

Or you defending Samsung for what they actually did which was have their devices recognize when benchmarks were being run and it would run the SoC at a higher speed to achieve high scores, but users wouldn't actually be able to get that performance capability?

Don't make BS claims and I wouldn't be here.

And I repeat to the others here, I am saying all this as a person that loves my Model 3 LR. I am not anti-Tesla. I am not anti-EV. What I am is anti-BS.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The hassles of EV ownership do not exceed their benefits. But for many people they do. If I had born been thirty years later I’m sure I would have been an EV owner. I don’t like change...even good change.

For many of us there are no real hassles to owning one. They are about as easy as it gets and cheap to run. Unfortunately it is difficult to change opinions and adoption is starting to level off in Europe and secondhand prices are plummeting. Now is perhaps the best time in the last few years to buy an EV as some of them have lost up to 32% of their value in year one.

 

[quagmire]

The hassles of EV ownership do not exceed their benefits. But for many people they do. If I had born been thirty years later I’m sure I would have been an EV owner. I don’t like change...even good change.

For me and my use of the car, the benefits has far exceeded any hassle. Frankly the only hassle in my Model 3 ownership has been having to deal with Tesla's poor customer service. But vehicle itself has been hassle-free.

But I have always maintained that if you don't have the ability to charge at home, EV's are generally not for you yet. If you road trip a lot, they are not for you yet. Obviously tow things, not for you yet.

 

[hodad66]

I have driven 5 EV's as my personal vehicles, all of them leased. Two were Chevy Volts, then 2 Chevy Bolts and now a model 3. I was simply tired of the charging hassles with the j1772 plug. Since moving over to Tesla, charging has been a breeze. The Superchargers are plentiful, seem to always work & payment is simplistic. I simply wish that a more affordable Tesla would finally be produced.

 

[I7guy]

The gripe is holding Tesla to what they claim. That is why I am throwing out what 99% of owners will use the vehicle.

The Cybertruck can't outrun a 911 while towing the 911......

As already stated, the Model 3 Performance doesn't have track ready brakes despite what they say.

The promo material says “Track Ready*”. Does that mean it can run on the Nurburing? Or it can be taken to a track. A reasonable person would understand the m3p will never have the stopping power of a Porsche with ceramic brakes and is not meant for heavy duty tracking.

Also using YouTube videos to debunk some advertising. Don’t know what’s worse YouTube videos or “false” advertising.

I go back to my example of what if Apple said the iPhone 16 Pro Max can run a game at 120 FPS, but in reality can only do it for 10 seconds before it throttles back to 30 FPS for the rest of the time. Would you call out Apple over that or come back with excuses of, " Well iPhone is the best selling device in the world" or, " 99% of users don't play demanding games on their iPhone" or, " I would buy an dedicated gaming rig if I wanted to play games" as a defense to Apple's BS?

Or you defending Samsung for what they actually did which was have their devices recognize when benchmarks were being run and it would run the SoC at a higher speed to achieve high scores, but users wouldn't actually be able to get that performance capability?

Don't make BS claims and I wouldn't be here.

And I repeat to the others here, I am saying all this as a person that loves my Model 3 LR. I am not anti-Tesla. I am not anti-EV. What I am is anti-BS.

 

[GrayFlannel]

No doubt road tripping in an EV requires more planning than an ICE. But it’s not “full doors ahead and damn the torpedoes” for either technology. And it’s true EV charging would take more time than an ice vehicle at a gas station. If you’re a road tripper and want the least down time an ev is not for you.

I don’t see a 130mi drive one way qualifies as a road trip but at this point of the technology apparently it does.

 

[GrayFlannel]

For you. For me they do.

Of course. That’s why I‘ve acknowledged some see their benefit and others do not. But the common thread is that eventually technology will catch up and the disadvantages will disappear.

I live in a state where you can’t throw a stone without hitting an ev. Someone is buying them.

I live in a state called California which is the Mecca for EVs and charging stations. Heaven help the EV industry in other states.