Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[quagmire]

EU is doing the same thing the US did, just different methods.

The US locked the incentives that consumers and manufactures get behind the manufacturing and sourcing of materials to the US or US friendly trading partners. Hence why the LFP powered Tesla's and other EV's lost the incentives because the battery was made or the materials for the battery was from China.

 

[diamond.g]

With a BBK aftermarket kit it now stops, as it should have done. But ahem, it still overheats.

Tesla M3P 2024 with Big Brake Kit:... - Misha Charoudin

Tesla M3P 2024 with Big Brake Kit: Stops, but still overheats🥲

www.facebook.com

They want Tesla to allow a warranty void mode that allows the battery to get hotter than 60C. I'm not sure if that is even possible with all the consumer protection laws in the EU.

EU is doing the same thing the US did, just different methods.

The US locked the incentives that consumers and manufactures get behind the manufacturing and sourcing of materials to the US or US friendly trading partners. Hence why the LFP powered Tesla's and other EV's lost the incentives because the battery was made or the materials for the battery was from China.

Tesla no longer offers LFP vehicles in the states...

 

[quagmire]

Tesla no longer offers LFP vehicles in the states...

Yeah saw that they dropped the standard M3 just a few days ago.

It shows the law is having its intended effect.

 

[Apple fanboy]

MOT passed.
Servicing done. Next service due October 2026. All good.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Some things are going on over at Rivian. I hope all is good, I want them to do well.

Source:

Rivian Releases Q3 Production and Delivery Figures Q3 2024 Results - Newsroom - Rivian

Rivian Releases Q3 Production and Delivery Figures Q3 2024 Results

rivian.com

Irvine, California, October 4, 2024: Rivian Automotive, Inc. (NASDAQ: RIVN) today announced production and delivery totals for the quarter ending September 30, 2024. The company produced 13,157 vehicles at its manufacturing facility in Normal, Illinois and delivered 10,018 vehicles during the same period.

Rivian is experiencing a production disruption due to a shortage of a shared component on the R1 and RCV platforms. This supply shortage impact began in Q3 of this year, has become more acute in recent weeks and continues. As a result of the supply shortage, Rivian is revising its annual production guidance to be between 47,000 and 49,000 vehicles. The company is also reaffirming its annual delivery outlook of low single digit growth as compared to 2023, which it expects to be in a range of 50,500 to 52,000 vehicles.

 

[GrayFlannel]

EU is doing the same thing the US did, just different methods.

The US locked the incentives that consumers and manufactures get behind the manufacturing and sourcing of materials to the US or US friendly trading partners. Hence why the LFP powered Tesla's and other EV's lost the incentives because the battery was made or the materials for the battery was from China.

It seems the charging infrastructure should be incentivized not manufacturing and purchase of EVs.

 

[quagmire]

It seems the charging infrastructure should be incentivized not manufacturing and purchase of EVs.

The same law in the US also funded charging infrastructure.

It's partially why Tesla opened up the superchargers to other EV's. Tesla wanted that cheddar and the chargers needed to be available to use for all EV's vs locked to only Tesla's to get that federal funding.

 

[GrayFlannel]

The same law in the US also funded charging infrastructure.

It's partially why Tesla opened up the superchargers to other EV's. Tesla wanted that cheddar and the chargers needed to be available to use for all EV's vs locked to only Tesla's to get that federal funding.

It’s gonna be tough to make the switch to EVs if the inconveniences don’t disappear. EV depreciation is roughly 30-50% in just the first year and these aren’t even the 3G cell phone models of their day.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It’s gonna be tough to make the switch to EVs if the inconveniences don’t disappear. EV depreciation is roughly 30-50% in just the first year and these aren’t even the 3G cell phone models of their day.

The depreciation is a problem. I suspect it’s largely due to people naively believing half the BS online about limited battery life etc.
That and nearly all new car sales are leased these days. So dropping £20-30k on a second hand car is more difficult than shelling out £300-500 a month.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Depreciation is not materially different than other cars in that price class. People have been spoiled and have short memories following the Covid 19 shortages.

 

[jz0309]

Depreciation is not materially different than other cars in that price class. People have been spoiled and have short memories following the Covid 19 shortages.

Yup, the used car market was/is crazy, 2 years ago I got around $20k for a 5 1/2 year old Prius that was $27.5k new before taxes, and also came with a total of $6.5k of rebates/tax credit… how quickly we forget .

 

[GrayFlannel]

Yup, the used car market was/is crazy, 2 years ago I got around $20k for a 5 1/2 year old Prius that was $27.5k new before taxes, and also came with a total of $6.5k of rebates/tax credit… how quickly we forget .

I bought two SL’s for $105k each in 2004. Both are in the garage worth $20k each today. An EQE was losing $600 a day for a while. 😂

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I bought two SL’s for $105k each in 2004. Both are in the garage worth $20k each today. An EQE was losing $600 a day for a while. 😂

As with anything, you make your money when you buy, not when you sell. I see no material difference compared to an ICE vehicle. But if you do, take advantage of it and buy an EV second hand. 👍

 

[GrayFlannel]

The depreciation is a problem. I suspect it’s largely due to people naively believing half the BS online about limited battery life etc.

EV optional extras are expensive, poor range, poor charging options, and each evolution is much better than the previous. All valid reasons.

I see no material difference compared to an ICE vehicle.

Big difference with EVs whether you see it or not. EV’s depreciation is about 30-40% greater than legacy cars for now.

 

[Apple fanboy]

EV optional extras are expensive, poor range, poor charging options, and each evolution is much better than the previous. All valid reasons.


Big difference with EVs whether you see it or not. EV’s depreciation is about 30-40% greater than legacy cars for now.

Well we will agree to differ. Nothing wrong with the range or the charging options.
All models regardless of drive train are better than their predecessors. Otherwise we would all be driving around in the first car we owned.

Personally I like free fuel for 95% of my annual mileage whilst not pumping out a load of crap into the air.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

EV optional extras are expensive, poor range, poor charging options, and each evolution is much better than the previous. All valid reasons.

Optional extras are the same, often actually more standard. Range is measurable in poronkusema units, so plenty god enough. There haven’t really been major evolutions since about 2019. Biggest change has probably been 800v architecture which allows for even faster charging. But considering that like on our Polestar 2 with “only 155” charging the curve from 20-80 is done around 20 minutes it’s not an issue when you stop for a leak anyway.

Big difference with EVs whether you see it or not. EV’s depreciation is about 30-40% greater than legacy cars for now.

We have to differ. I’m not seeing that difference at all. Sure I hear about it in the media but don’t see it. I don’t lease cars or get loans. Bought our Polestar 2 cash. Don’t see any material difference compared to comparable powerful ICE cars we’ve had previously.

 

[I7guy]

It’s gonna be tough to make the switch to EVs if the inconveniences don’t disappear. EV depreciation is roughly 30-50% in just the first year and these aren’t even the 3G cell phone models of their day.

People got used to the inconveniences of ice cars and have built their lives around those inconveniences.

 

[jz0309]

Optional extras are the same, often actually more standard. Range is measurable in poronkusema units, so plenty god enough. There haven’t really been major evolutions since about 2019. Biggest change has probably been 800v architecture which allows for even faster charging. But considering that like on our Polestar 2 with “only 155” charging the curve from 20-80 is done around 20 minutes it’s not an issue when you stop for a leak anyway.

We have to differ. I’m not seeing that difference at all. Sure I hear about it in the media but don’t see it. I don’t lease cars or get loans. Bought our Polestar 2 cash. Don’t see any material difference compared to comparable powerful ICE cars we’ve had previously.

What’s been happening in the US at the beginning of last year is the tax rebates, so in my specific example of the Bolt that I got in 2022, the sticker price was $36k and you were lucky to get it at sticker. Then in 2023 same car, same sticker sold for $7.5k less and the resale value today is based on that reduced price, so obviously depreciation is higher.
And if I recall a Tesla M3 2 years ago sold for $45k and now they can be had for like $36k or so…
The economy overall has changed, the car market overall is changing, it’ll take another couple/few years to stabilize…

 

[Apple fanboy]

People got used to the inconveniences of ice cars and have built their lives around those inconveniences.

Absolutely. I couldn’t imagine having to drive to a petrol station every week and drop £40-70 in the tank.

Do you think it was the same when people transitioned from the horse and cart to cars?

People stuck in there ways would hang out at the garages constantly telling the car owners how the inconvenience of car ownership would never work, meanwhile the car owners just got on with enjoying their improved lives.

 

[dmr727]

I gotta say, it's been great never having to think about 'fuel' for the car. We have another car for the very occasional long trip, but this thing is perfect for my 20 mile commute to work and the driving I do around the city.

And then you step on the accelerator....wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

 

[GrayFlannel]

We have to differ. I’m not seeing that difference at all. Sure I hear about it in the media but don’t see it. I don’t lease cars or get loans. Bought our Polestar 2 cash. Don’t see any material difference compared to comparable powerful ICE cars we’ve had previously.

The 2023 Polestar 2 Long Range with 10k mi has dropped ~40% from retail one of the most noteworthy. Non-EVs lose about 20% in the first year.

 

[GrayFlannel]

What’s been happening in the US at the beginning of last year is the tax rebates, so in my specific example of the Bolt that I got in 2022, the sticker price was $36k and you were lucky to get it at sticker. Then in 2023 same car, same sticker sold for $7.5k less and the resale value today is based on that reduced price, so obviously depreciation is higher.
And if I recall a Tesla M3 2 years ago sold for $45k and now they can be had for like $36k or so…
The economy overall has changed, the car market overall is changing, it’ll take another couple/few years to stabilize…

I look for EV depreciation rate to cool off once batteries improve, charging stations become more available, and the tech levels off. Right now the EV technology improves so substantially with each iteration it kills resale value.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The 2023 Polestar 2 Long Range with 10k mi has dropped ~40% from retail one of the most noteworthy. Non-EVs lose about 20% in the first year.

It will even out over time, nothing unusual especially in the first year. First year depreciation means nothing, it’s highly distorted.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I look for EV depreciation rate to cool off once batteries improve, charging stations become more available, and the tech levels off. Right now the EV technology improves so substantially with each iteration it kills resale value.

What iterations? What improvements? Can you list them? Nothing exciting has happened in years.

 

[GrayFlannel]

What iterations? What improvements? Can you list them? Nothing exciting has happened in years.

Just focusing on charging and batteries alone…charging stations have increased on average of 16% each year since 2014. Adding to that charging ports have increased 17% each year over the same time period. Battery prices have decreased in price roughly 97% over the last 25 years. A 75kWh batttery today is around $13k whereas 25 years ago it would cost $600k.

As you know my position is that the EV tech still needs a 10 - 25 years to overcome their current physical and financial disadvantages. So, since you’re an EV advocate I‘ll defer to your experience. If EV car tech improvements are non-existent then maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps it will take far longer than a generation and in the meanwhile new EV car values will continue to depreciate at a staggering rate. Yikes that will sure hurt the market and directly hurt owners and buyers. I’m not as pessimistic as you though.