Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

Lowering EV prices and longer ranges are more important to adoption than recharging speed but making “refueling” indistinguishable with fossil fuels will go a long way in EV ownership no longer be regarded less convenient than owning a fossil fuel car. However the key to five minute charging is safety to prevent thermo runaway and battery fires.

According to experts that will be more than enough for consumers, and that is why electric vehicles are going to win in the end. It’s all good news for EVs.

You are focusing in on the wrong thing. It is not that 5 minute charging is needed to make it more like fossil fuel vehicles or any safety issue, it is ONLY needed once there becomes lines at charging stations. So, in the heavy use EV charging stations in CA or once ownership numbers are large enough that there are long lines at the average charging station on trips. Other than that, there is no NEED.

Most people drive < 250 miles per day. Right now, "refueling" with fossil fuels is a hassle that needs to be more convenient. I have one L2 9.8 kW (charges at 40 Amps) wall charger at home, I charge both my EVs nightly. I never have to go anywhere or wait in any lines to have 80% charge every morning. Meanwhile the closest gas station to me has lines all day (BJs gas)...

Also, every rest stop I got to on the East Coast between NY and FL has long lines to get gas. You end up waiting 10-15 minutes to get your turn to spend 5 minutes filling up... All while us Tesla owners, drive up, plug in, go inside, finish, and leave in the same time.

 

[GrayFlannel]

You are focusing in on the wrong thing.

Fair enough, but I disagree and so do the industry authorities who write on the topic.

 

[timber]

All developments are appreciated to cover all sort of niche needs but 5 minute charging implies are not that important.

And they require very demanding chargers with MW grid connections or large buffer battery packs.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Fair enough, but I disagree and so do the industry authorities who write on the topic.

They aren't authorities, they are just creating content and making stuff up, by pampering to the masses who never experienced it. It is a paper spec that brings no actual benefit, in fact as highlighted earlier it comes with some drawbacks and makes it more alike with petrol filling.

 

[GrayFlannel]

They aren't authorities, they are just creating content and making stuff up…

Astonishing position.

Here is one of the sources.

Overview

The McKinsey Center for Future Mobility brings deep expertise and leading insights to help clients navigate an autonomous, connected, electrified, and shared future.

www.mckinsey.com

They don’t seem to be making up content to pamper anyone.

Electric vehicles—what’s ahead

Electric vehicles (EVs) are transforming the mobility sector to an extent not seen since the introduction of the Model T Ford. Public acceptance of EVs—once uncertain—has reached a tipping point and will continue to grow as consumers seek more economical, environmentally-friendly transport...

www.mckinsey.com

 

[timber]

The industry authorities nowadays can mostly be found in Tesla and some Chineses companies.

 

[JT2002TJ]

The owners in this tread are more authorities than most publications... We all as a group have experienced EVs across the world, with many different vehicles. We are all in different areas, experience all kinds of different charging infrastructure and different charging habits.

So far, the only complaints I can remember, are from those who do not own EVs... Just sayin'.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Astonishing position.

Here is one of the sources.

Overview

The McKinsey Center for Future Mobility brings deep expertise and leading insights to help clients navigate an autonomous, connected, electrified, and shared future.

www.mckinsey.com

They don’t seem to be making up content to pamper anyone.

Electric vehicles—what’s ahead

Electric vehicles (EVs) are transforming the mobility sector to an extent not seen since the introduction of the Model T Ford. Public acceptance of EVs—once uncertain—has reached a tipping point and will continue to grow as consumers seek more economical, environmentally-friendly transport...

www.mckinsey.com

Yup very US centric. Largely ignoring what’s already happening and has happened elsewhere in the world. I’ve been with two of the big five, and three in the magic circle. Not unfamiliar with those “experts” lol been wheeled out myself several times by the sales people. 🤣

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The owners in this tread are more authorities than most publications... We all as a group have experienced EVs across the world, with many different vehicles. We are all in different areas, experience all kinds of different charging infrastructure and different charging habits.

So far, the only complaints I can remember, are from those who do not own EVs... Just sayin'.

Bang on. It’s hilarious how they keep on telling those with actual experience that we’ve got it all wrong. 🤣

 

[GrayFlannel]

Yup very US centric.

More astonishment.

This example group produces global reports from global perspectives See below.

Patrick Schaufuss, partner, Munich
Patrick Hertzke, partner, London
Florian Nägele, partner, Zurich
Evan Horetsky, partner, Stockholm

 

[Apple fanboy]

The owners in this tread are more authorities than most publications... We all as a group have experienced EVs across the world, with many different vehicles. We are all in different areas, experience all kinds of different charging infrastructure and different charging habits.

So far, the only complaints I can remember, are from those who do not own EVs... Just sayin'.

Agreed. It’s weird how people dismiss actual user experience. When I want to research a product I don’t think the opinions who have read about ownership should outweigh those who actually own it.

 

[GrayFlannel]

The owners in this tread are more authorities than most publications...

There’s certainly no good evidence of that so far. An owner may be an expert in their car and anecdotal experience but not in the area of EV market, investment, overall adoption, research and development, etc etc. Finally any appeal to authority is a potential fallacy. The quality of argument and data relied on an opinion is what matters. Anecdotal experience and “feelings” aren’t generally considered persuasive.

 

[JT2002TJ]

There’s certainly no good evidence of that so far. An owner may be an expert in their car and anecdotal experience but not in the area of EV market, investment, overall adoption, research and development, etc etc. Finally any appeal to authority is a potential fallacy. The quality of argument and data relied on an opinion is what matters. Anecdotal experience and “feelings” aren’t generally considered persuasive.

Ok. So, why continue to come back to this tread, if the owners in this thread are not knowledgeable?

I guarantee I know more about actual Tesla experience than any journalist who doesn't own a Tesla. I have 2, research the changes in the different OS', have researched and modified my Teslas. The typical MR member is the same, with a high level of Technology experience, and likely to be working in the tech or tech adjacent industry. We are the type of people who research our tech purchases to death.

A journalist will read the tire size specifications in the manual and will say, that's what fits. An enthusiast will say, yes, the OEM size will fit, but I also have fit and use this size, something only someone with experience will know.

 

[hobowankenobi]

At the risk of going down a rabbit hole...users with years of daily experience actually do have good working knowledge.

Some journalists seem to exhibit good knowledge, while many others do not. This is true for all information, nothing worse (or better) for EVs. We all see it daily, regardless of subject matter.

Take stock market news and analysis. It's all over the place, and one can find plenty of "experts" in newish outlets to validate your position or opinion.

I would say that 60+% of EV news I see is simply clickbait, and the majority is negative or highlighting edge case scenarios, because they generate clicks.

If it bleeds, it leads. News (at least in the US); the same as it ever was.

 

[jz0309]

battery technology will continue to evolve, if/when we see these “5 min” batteries, who knows, I am still waiting to see solid state batteries in any EV and those were promised when again?
Things will need to and will change to enable EVs for everyone, we’re not there yet.

 

[GrayFlannel]

A journalist will read the tire size specifications in the manual and will say, that's what fits. An enthusiast will say, yes, the OEM size will fit, but I also have fit and use this size, something only someone with experience will know.

A journalist often is not a subject matter expert. They summarize and report news from various sources. Usually those sources have credibility which the reader must evaluate.

Ok. So, why continue to come back to this tread, if the owners in this thread are not knowledgeable?

I never said anyone is unknowledgeable. Experience and opinions certainly have value and add interest. Facts are different though.

Being an entrepreneur I‘m interested in EVs as a whole, their adoption, market, economic impact, and business.

 

[Apple fanboy]

At the risk of going down a rabbit hole...users with years of daily experience actually do have good working knowledge.

Some journalists seem to exhibit good knowledge, while many others do not. This is true for all information, nothing worse (or better) for EVs. We all see it daily, regardless of subject matter.

Take stock market news and analysis. It's all over the place, and one can find plenty of "experts" in newish outlets to validate your position or opinion.

I would say that 60+% of EV news I see is simply clickbait, and the majority is negative or highlighting edge case scenarios, because they generate clicks.

If it bleeds, it leads. News (at least in the US); the same as it ever was.

Click bait articles are designed to create engagement. The more people disagree strong enough to post and share, the more advertising revenue they earn.

 

[Apple fanboy]

battery technology will continue to evolve, if/when we see these “5 min” batteries, who knows, I am still waiting to see solid state batteries in any EV and those were promised when again?
Things will need to and will change to enable EVs for everyone, we’re not there yet.

What % of the world would you say they don’t work for currently? I think the vast majority could make the switch. When 95% of charging is not done on the road, 5 minute charging is hardly necessary. What’s the average journey length? We are already well passed most people being able to commute to work and back each day.

 

[jz0309]

There’s certainly no good evidence of that so far. An owner may be an expert in their car and anecdotal experience but not in the area of EV market, investment, overall adoption, research and development, etc etc. Finally any appeal to authority is a potential fallacy. The quality of argument and data relied on an opinion is what matters. Anecdotal experience and “feelings” aren’t generally considered persuasive.

I don’t know what any of that has to do with this thread (read the title again), and I certainly know that the McKinseys of this world do lack consumer oriented knowledge, their goal is purely to get hired by large companies and governments to lay out strategies, which in turn creates more “consulting opportunities” for themselves.

I’ve worked for the “Big 5” …

 

[Apple fanboy]

Not an exhaustive list. But no EV on the market would struggle with that.

 

[GrayFlannel]

I don’t know what any of that has to do with this thread (read the title again)…

It was merely a response to a reply.

 

[oneMadRssn]

With the current state of battery tech, an EV paired with a reliable way to charge at home is sufficient for like 90% of all driving.

The people who (a) can't have reliable at home charging and (b) who regularly drive 300+ miles per day are left out. For (a), we simply need more charging infrastructure. For (b), I think the industry should just promote rentals.

For the one or two big 500+ mile roadtrips per year that you take, rent a big ol' Chevy Suburban and go. I've done the math for my situation before - the amount of money I save on gas versus the cost of electricity for my regular day-to-day driving pays for 2-3 weeks of renting a large SUV. Most years I wouldn't rent that long, and still come out on top.

 

[jz0309]

What % of the world would you say they don’t work for currently? I think the vast majority could make the switch. When 95% of charging is not done on the road, 5 minute charging is hardly necessary. What’s the average journey length? We are already well passed most people being able to commute to work and back each day.

I can’t speak for the “world”, so focusing on the US. I’d say EVs are a good option for anyone who has a garage and has a daily driving need for about 150 miles max, if that number seems high, it’s not unusual for people to have a daily commute of that distance.
Charging overnight becomes the challenge for people without a garage, so folks in apartments/condos, charging at work opportunities are rare here. And retrofitting existing places (apartments/condos) is unlikely to happen without incentives …

 

[Apple fanboy]

I can’t speak for the “world”, so focusing on the US. I’d say EVs are a good option for anyone who has a garage and has a daily driving need for about 150 miles max, if that number seems high, it’s not unusual for people to have a daily commute of that distance.
Charging overnight becomes the challenge for people without a garage, so folks in apartments/condos, charging at work opportunities are rare here. And retrofitting existing places (apartments/condos) is unlikely to happen without incentives …

Yes for those that can’t charge at home things are more difficult. You mention garages, but of course a drive is perfectly adequate as well. My car never gets in the garage as it’s full of other things.
But in the UK at least they are no longer building apartments (or flats as we call them) without provision for parking and charging.
There are also various council run schemes where cars can be charged on the road (charging posts or gullies for people to run cables from their house to the road).

With most people having a commute of less than 20 miles per day, it’s one 15-20 charge stop a week.

Also in the UK a lot of those living in buildings with no car parking often don’t own cars. Those sort of houses are most likely in cities with good public transport etc.

 

[I7guy]

Yup very US centric. Largely ignoring what’s already happening and has happened elsewhere in the world. I’ve been with two of the big five, and three in the magic circle. Not unfamiliar with those “experts” lol been wheeled out myself several times by the sales people. 🤣

Plus the “report” is 4 years old. And as prestigious as McKinsey is, it’s another opinion.