Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[GrayFlannel]

Maybe Mercedes Europe ev demand is down and ev demand, especially Tesla is up. For Mercedes it could be due to the pricing structure.

The failing Chinese economy certainly hurt Mercedes overall sales but it’s blindly clear the European EV market is sluggish.

I did see Tesla’s sales profit is up 2% with their biggest gain of 52% coming from its energy generation and storage business. I read Musk predicts continued dull sales through 2024 with a bold prediction of a big jump in sale for 2025 as they focus on affordable EV market.

 

[JT2002TJ]

The failing Chinese economy certainly hurt Mercedes overall sales but it’s blindly clear the European EV market is sluggish.

I did see Tesla’s sales profit is up 2% with their biggest gain of 52% coming from its energy generation and storage business. I read Musk predicts continued dull sales through 2024 with a bold prediction of a big jump in sale for 2025 as they focus on affordable EV market.

Their Model Y refresh will likely hit worldwide in 2025. With the continued success of the Model Y, it would be hard not to have an increase in sales…

The TM3 refresh hit China Q4 2023, then worldwide Q1 2024. With the rumors of the Juniper release in China in the next few days, it might be a repeat of the TM3 refresh.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I see Mercedes’ year-on-year EV sales is down 30% in Q3. They attribute the dismal EV market to Germany and other European countries having cut subsidies that had encouraged people to buy them. I read their CFO said the Europe’s EV demand is running at far lower levels than ever expected. The 2035 ban might be too aggressive.

They simply don't have a good offering. In the EV world, there is much less following of a HALO brand. The styling is subjective but, in my opinion, the worst it is ever. And even where they could have been unique like with a proper big full-size SUV, the EQS is way smaller than a GLS. The EQE is ok, but just screams Taxi...

The 2035 used to be 2030 in some places, pushing it back to send the wrong signal. Not only to the buyers, but also to the manufacturers. Big mistake by the politicians.

 

[I7guy]

The failing Chinese economy certainly hurt Mercedes overall sales but it’s blindly clear the European EV market is sluggish.

I did see Tesla’s sales profit is up 2% with their biggest gain of 52% coming from its energy generation and storage business. I read Musk predicts continued dull sales through 2024 with a bold prediction of a big jump in sale for 2025 as they focus on affordable EV market.

The euro be market may be struggling but the Tesla market is doing okay in 2024 with a slight dip from last year.

 

[GrayFlannel]

The euro be market may be struggling but the Tesla market is doing okay in 2024 with a slight dip from last year.

I agree with you on the EV market struggling in both Europe and US which brings the fossil fuel ban deadline into question as being too ambitious.

I also agree with you that Tesla’s 2024 sales for 2024 are underwhelming but Musk expects dramatic improves for 2025.

 

[GrayFlannel]

They simply don't have a good offering.

It isn’t just MBZ, but also Porsche, VW, and Volvo...the poor EV market across Europe is a major contributing factor to profits but the struggling Chinese economy is hurting them on all sales.

 

[WC7]

want to drive that VW Buzz

 

[I7guy]

I agree with you on the EV market struggling in both Europe and US which brings the fossil fuel ban deadline into question as being too ambitious.

I also agree with you that Tesla’s 2024 sales for 2024 are underwhelming but Musk expects dramatic improves for 2025.

Tesla sales are not underwhelming imo. Tesla experienced a 10% drop in Europe yoy. For however Europe is defined.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The EV market is slowing in Europe because it was booming until this year and the affordable sector is reluctant to buy secondhand. People aren’t flipping their EV’s as often as they would an ICE vehicle and various factors are driving them to depreciate up to four times as much. Tesla sell well because they are at the cheaper end of the mid tier and are common company cars. They are like the BMW 3 Series of the EV world for popularity, but far too many negative misconceptions across social media is affecting trust amongst motorists. There is also the fact that taxes are coming in for EVs soon and they are about to get a lot more expensive to own.

 

[GrayFlannel]

There is also the fact that taxes are coming in for EVs soon and they are about to get a lot more expensive to own.

Could you explain the taxes part?

 

[Tagbert]

We often hear that EV sales are in trouble but in spite of the general gloom, it seems that sales are still growing at a good rate.

“EV sales have not fallen, cooled, slowed or slumped. Stop lying in headlines.”

EV sales have not fallen, cooled, slowed or slumped. Stop lying in headlines.

Electric car sales keep rising, even as headlines would have you believe otherwise. Gas car sales, however, actually *are* down.

electrek.co

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Could you explain the taxes part?

It’s a UK thing. There was a reduction in vehicle excise duties to zero. Now it will be £190 per year for those who already have one. But then there was a second reduction which is the “luxury tax” for vehicles over 40K. EVs were except and won’t be going forwards. That 40k barrier is set way too low. Can’t get any car i would want want to own for less.

 

[GrayFlannel]

It’s a UK thing. There was a reduction in vehicle excise duties to zero. Now it will be £190 per year for those who already have one. But then there was a second reduction which is the “luxury tax” for vehicles over 40K. EVs were except and won’t be going forwards. That 40k barrier is set way too low. Can’t get any car i would want want to own for less.

Got it. Thank you!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Could you explain the taxes part?

In the UK EV’s have been exempt from vehicle tax but this is due to change in 2024 where they will now be taxed £190. The problem though is most EV’s also cost over £40k so this carries an additional £410 a year premium for the first 5 years of ownership. I know we save this back very quickly in fuel savings, but it’s very high IMO. It used to be judged on emissions but the rise in EV ownership has mean the lost revenue is being recovered via this.

 

[Apple fanboy]

In the UK EV’s have been exempt from vehicle tax but this is due to change in 2024 where they will now be taxed £190. The problem though is most EV’s also cost over £40k so this carries an additional £410 a year premium for the first 5 years of ownership. I know we save this back very quickly in fuel savings, but it’s very high IMO. It used to be judged on emissions but the rise in EV ownership has mean the lost revenue is being recovered via this.

I don’t have a problem paying road tax. But the scale is wrong. For example my wife’s 1 litre Kia Picanto is exempt due to its low emissions. Yet I’ll be paying more than I was on my old Golf.
It doesn’t make any sense the way they have done it.

That said, this week I expect more (expensive) changes for most in the UK!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I don’t have a problem paying road tax. But the scale is wrong. For example my wife’s 1 litre Kia Picanto is exempt due to its low emissions. Yet I’ll be paying more than I was on my old Golf.
It doesn’t make any sense the way they have done it.

That said, this week I expect more (expensive) changes for most in the UK!

Yeah it’s absurd and I have no problem paying tax on EV’s. My dirty diesel Audi A4 which is not ULEZ compliant costs £160 a year to tax and now a Tesla Model 3 costs £600 lol. People will say ‘oh but they are heavier’ or ‘their carbon footprint is bigger’, but in reality it’s ridiculous and just another tactic to make it difficult to own a car. Give it another 2 years and we will be paying by the mile on top of already paying by the mile via fuel or electric power.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yeah it’s absurd and I have no problem paying tax on EV’s. My dirty diesel Audi A4 which is not ULEZ compliant costs £160 a year to tax and now a Tesla Model 3 costs £600 lol. People will say ‘oh but they are heavier’ or ‘their carbon footprint is bigger’, but in reality it’s ridiculous and just another tactic to make it difficult to own a car. Give it another 2 years and we will be paying by the mile on top of already paying by the mile via fuel or electric power.

Indeed. Basically going after those they feel can pay it. A system where you pay by mile is probably the fairest. But we both no that’s not how it will be calculated! It will be price per mile on top of road tax, insurance and tax on the fuel or electric….

 

[4sallypat]

Just heard of a deal of the century in the US: $159/month lease on a Hyundai Ioniq 5.

 

[jz0309]

Just heard of a deal of the century in the US: $159/month lease on a Hyundai Ioniq 5. View attachment 2442511

Yea, good luck finding that car
it’s the standard range SE so the low end model, but, if that suits someone’s needs - go for it.
when I was shopping for my IONIQ 5, there were no SE to be found, not that I was interested, just nothing in dealer inventory.

 

[GrayFlannel]

Just heard of a deal of the century in the US: $159/month lease on a Hyundai Ioniq 5.

Is 12k/yr enough?

 

[jz0309]

Is 12km/yr enough?

What’s the average miles driven in the US?

 

[GrayFlannel]

What’s the average miles driven in the US?

Around 15-17k I think. Maybe slightly less since the pandemic.

I noticed a typo in my post. I meant 12k not 12Km.

 

[jz0309]

Around 15-17k I think. Maybe slightly less since the pandemic.

I noticed a typo in my post. I meant 12k not 12Km.

I interpreted as 12 kilomiles

So, I’m guessing this lease is 10k/yr, not 12 and for some that will be enough, for the 5 people that might be able to snag up this deal

 

[GrayFlannel]

I interpreted as 12 kilomiles

So, I’m guessing this lease is 10k/yr, not 12 and for some that will be enough, for the 5 people that might be able to snag up this deal

I know. Sorry. I meant to write 12k miles.

 

[GrayFlannel]

I just read the news that the intense Chinese competition, slowing auto sales, and the expensive transition to EV is causing Volkswagen to shutter three plants in Germany, cut tens of thousands of jobs, as well as cutting pay by 10%. Things are getting real serious real fast.