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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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You think that, but they're actually not any closer. They're just more willing to put the public in danger.
FSD isn't actually getting any better. it's as incompetent as ever.
The levels don’t make sense. You can say Mercedes is a level 27 but it can’t do the same things as Tesla FSD.
That’s your opinion, but I don’t believe it is correct. FSD is going to save a lot of lives. FSD is safer than most human drivers and currently it’s supervised by human drivers so it’s just an addition to not replacing them.
Do you own a Tesla with an active FSD subscription or purchase? I find FSD in my Tesla is getting much better. It could be a regional thing though.
I’m not disagreeing that the industry has given it a higher level number. I’m just saying the Mercedes can’t do the same things Tesla can do when it comes to self driving. That’s a fact, not an opinion. I’ve seen reviews on both cars and the Mercedes does not even come close.
I was hoping the new VW Tiguan would be hybrid or electric but I think it is still ICE.Back to looking at the Korean and Japanese cars.
1) It's a standard
2) It's not an opinion, it's just factual
3) Yes I do
It's okay if you think FSD is getting better. You're allowed to be deceived. It's clear to the rest of us FSD isn't actually working very well. It drives like a drunk human.
But thanks for illustrating how Elon has managed to corrupt the car buying industry.
Factual is FSD is proven to be safer than human driving. I agree it needs to get better but and it’s current form it’s safer. Actually, I’m excited. The other car manufacturers are trying to implement their version of FSD. It’s not a good thing that Tesla is so far ahead here. Having strong competition is always better for innovation and consumers. I suspect in 5 to 10 years it’s going to be even across all major brands.
I’m not the only one who thinks this, and it has been updated significantly. Most people who own a Tesla with FSD would agree it’s better than a year ago. How could I be deceived with my own eyes and what my car is doing? Before it made more mistakes now it makes fewer. I will say it still makes too many though. I don’t think unsupervised full self driving is going to be a thing for at least five years. Tesla may be ambitious, but it’s not there yet.
How exactly has he corrupted the car buying industry? I didn’t even mention Elon or car buying, but this seems to be an issue that’s on your mind. Please explain
What is funny to me, is at the speeds and locations Mercedes is operating at Level 3, Tesla could as well.
VW is using the ID line for electrification. So the Tiguan near equivalent would be the ID.4.
I have been wondering what feature gives Mercedes the "edge" so to speak, and at the same token why Tesla is "still" at level 2, have not been able to find out other then one is a "3" and the other a "2".
what I did find out is that Mercedes takes liability when the vehicle is operating at "level 3" and I don't know if that is a requirement or not.
for locations, Mercedes is "3"# in California and Nevada
I think the liability is the key point. Where MB can operate at lvl 3 is so constrained I don't doubt Tesla could offer the same as well. Liability for it on the other hand, heh. Maybe as a function of Tesla Insurance maybe? Otherwise I am sure they are not interested.
FSDs is NOT standard. You are talking about Autopilot, which hasn’t change in over a year. So clearly you do not have a Tesla with FSDs or you are unaware of what you have. So you are correct that Autopilot hasn’t gotten better. If you are using Autopilot on the city streets, you would also not be experiencing FSDs.
I have FSDs in 2 vehicles with hardware 3. While it is not perfect it IS and continues to greatly improve.
I use FSDs in the NYC, Long Island NY area on a daily basis.
I just used FSDs to drive me to the camera store 8 miles away in Long Island with a mix of Highway (Autopilot stack), local highways (FSDs) and city streets where it drove me to the parking lot. Once in the lot I took over and selected the spot for autopark to park. After I was finished, I used Actual Smart Summons (A.S.S) to have my TM3 meet me in front of the storefront so I could load the trunk. I then got in and selected my home in the GPS and it drove me to my driveway. All intervention free.
For those who are unaware (as you pointed out) Level 2 vs Level 3 is only who is liable, not ability. A level 2 designation for a vehicle does not make it less capable of autonomous driving than a level 3 vehicle. It is only if the manufacturer is willing to accept liability or not.
MB’s L3 is no more capable vs. FSDs. FSDs or even Autopilot is actually much more capable than MB’s system, Tesla just doesn’t accept lability. They will let you use FSDs anywhere, but because you are liable, you have to pay attention and be ready to take over in the event an intervention is needed. MB is a Level 2 except if a set of parameters are met which really limits when it is level 3.
FSDs is not perfect, and you do have to be ready to take over. In the last 2 years I have had it, I have seen HUGE improvements and a drastic reduction in required interventions. I am glad I have it in both my Teslas, and I use it a lot.
Imagine if cars had just now been invented, and came with FSD.
Then someone says "no, I want to drive myself!". People would watch random drivers, decide it was too dangerous due to all the crap driving, and ban it.
Then someone says "no, I want to drive myself!". People would watch random drivers, decide it was too dangerous due to all the crap driving, and ban it.
I think he was talking about the level two versus level three thing.
If you look into the Mercedes “level 3” it uses pre mapped streets so doesn’t work everywhere, only works up to 40 mph and has a whole slew of other limitations. Tesla FSD works everywhere in the USA to my knowledge. Ford has blue Cruise, which is pretty cool but again only works on certain streets. I think Ford’s version allows higher speed, which is at least one good thing.
I know everyone has their most and least favorite car brands and that’s OK. I think in five years all this is going to be moved because self driving will be the future. Even growing up in the 80s I always thought it was crazy that people drove two ton machines, routinely killing themselves and others and it was normal. I’ve had family members and friends killed due to driver, negligence and error. I know that’s another touchy subject where people like to manually operate their vehicles but I feel we need to move on from that. You can tell the machine where you want to go and make that decision, but the machine will prevent you from killing yourself or others.
It’s crazy how we’ve become desensitized to people dying in crashes. Over a million people die each year in automobile crashes. How many more are permanently disfigured or disabled? How many of those are children or babies?
People die because others drive recklessly, texting, driving under the influence, elderly drivers, or even people make mistakes. The guy going to work hasn’t had his coffee yet and didn’t see the red light. A computer is always going to see the red light. A computer isn’t going to be looking down at its phone. Sure there is always a chance of a malfunction, but the number of malfunctions on a computer is going to be a tiny fraction of the number of malfunctions by humans.
Whoever can solve this problem should be hailed as a hero
imho it will take quite a bit longer than 5 years, while the technology will continue to evolve, other factors like the economy overall will play a major role, eg, look at the US car market right now where a lot of people can't afford new cars. Until the technology is built into every vehicle by default because it is cheap and reliable enough, insurance will need to adopt etc etc. I'm not saying it will not happen, just the timing
Well, it was supposed to say moot but lovely iPhone AutoCorrect has actually gotten worse for me on 18.1.
No, I didn’t mean self driving will be the norm in five years. I think self driving will be an option for all car brands in five years. I don’t mean some weak only works in three states and up to 40 mph self driving but actual self driving where it just works. I think any car manufacturer that isn’t taking this seriously is going to be in a world of hurt. Sure there’s a possibility that Tesla or someone else could license their version but maybe they won’t because why help the competition.
It’s going to be at least 20 years before self driving becomes the norm. If you look around at cars on the road today most of them are less than 20 years old. That means if all cars were equipped with it starting today, it would be 20 years before most cars have it. Of course, I think this is going to be such a great feature that people are going to avoid buying cars without it. It’s going to be like air conditioning where you really don’t want a car that doesn’t have it
Isn’t Waymo the current leader in self driving? That might change with the cyber cab hitting the market. Like many have mentioned, liability is the real threshold barrier here. No one wants to step up to the inevitable liability. That’s why it seems hard to see the software licensed considering the car would have different sizes, shapes etc. It’s not impossible but will take time.
Waymo is the king but not with private vehicles. Those things are just too expensive and too ugly for most people.
I also think they have pre-programmed routes rather than just driving, but I could be wrong about that one. I haven’t done any research on them.
This.
I have been in 2 somewhat recent car accidents. 9/15/22 and 5/24/23. Both instances I was rear ended by drivers not paying attention in stop and go traffic on my way home from work. My son was with me both times in rear facing car seats, he was fine both times (THANK GOD). I however had a herniated lumbar disc from the first, and a herniated cervical disc from the second both compressing the nerve. I had to have a Lumbar microdiscectomy from the first and 2 weeks ago a cervical disectomy and fusion to resolve issues from the second.
The first accident caused so much pain and discomfort with driving I had to sell my stick shift BMW because I could no longer drive stick in 2 hours of traffic on my way home. This is why I got my TM3 with FSD (to help with my commute). I eventually sold my other vehicles and got a TMY and gave the TM3 to my wife. I have to take my son out of his car seat everyday, it was just easier to have the TMY.
The amount of time I have been in doctor’s offices, physical therapy, and operating rooms, all because people where paying attention.