Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

Interesting, so on my phone I have 6 non-AW Bluetooth devices paired, but my U2 shows only the AirPods under Bluetooth. Does your watch show the Tesla under Bluetooth devices? And if so, did you have to pair them?

AW does NOT show Telsa in the list of BT devices.
Phone DOES show both my Teslas.

Watch for Tesla manages how it connects to my Teslas. I'm not sure if it will be the same with the OEM Tesla app (managed within the AW Tesla app, or directly connected via the watch).

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Could be interesting for some 👍

Spoiler: If you don’t want to watch it.

The Polestar wins on range, and overall best value for money. Relevant for the UK naturally.

 

[WC7]

Could be interesting for some 👍

Spoiler: If you don’t want to watch it.

The Polestar wins on range, and overall best value for money. Relevant for the UK naturally.

Are there any BYD cars in Europe yet? Do any have CarPlay??

 

[Todd H]

Well crap you are right, why did I think it didn't have it?


I wonder how many EVs with induction motors have AM radio.

My Honda Prologue has AM radio.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Are there any BYD cars in Europe yet? Do any have CarPlay??

Yes, and no idea.

 

[crzdcolombian]

Yes, and no idea.

Was in china and BYD will kill every car company. Too bad the Us won’t let them come until they kill every car company In every country before coming here

Love how Americans are so against Chinese cars. Most people drive Japanese cars here anyway

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Was in china and BYD will kill every car company. Too bad the Us won’t let them come until they kill every car company In every country before coming here

Love how Americans are so against Chinese cars. Most people drive Japanese cars here anyway

It's not bad, but there are plenty of better cars. And they need to sort that stupid UI, that doesn't work internationally. Don't get me wrong, our car is from China - it is from Geely.

 

[timber]

Are there any BYD cars in Europe yet? Do any have CarPlay??

I have a test drive today on BYD Seal. Just to check out and evaluate.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I have a test drive today on BYD Seal. Just to check out and evaluate.

Let us know what you think.

 

[diamond.g]

My Honda Prologue has AM radio.

The AWD model has an induction motor in the rear. That is interesting, how well does the AM radio reception work (I assume you too have the AWD model)?

 

[JT2002TJ]

Could be interesting for some 👍

Spoiler: If you don’t want to watch it.

The Polestar wins on range, and overall best value for money. Relevant for the UK naturally.

I did find it interesting, but I think the actual rating that actually matters is efficiency... This is the ICE equivalent of just increasing the gas tank capacity.

Spoiler: If you want to watch it first

My calculation shows that despite Polestar having 20% larger battery than the Tesla, it only went 12% further. I personally think the table I made on the right is the real order...

 

[timber]

It's quite interesting the difference between the Explorer and the Q4 considering they are basically the same car.

Are all the AWD versions? It's not mentioned in the intro (perhaps latter).

 

[JT2002TJ]

It's quite interesting the difference between the Explorer and the Q4 considering they are basically the same car.

Are all the AWD versions? It's not mentioned in the intro (perhaps latter).

I think the longest-range versions (his wording) typically are the AWD versions. It's part of the upsell. Tesla does off and on does have a LR RWD version, but typically it is only the AWD that gets the bigger battery.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I did find it interesting, but I think the actual rating that actually matters is efficiency... This is the ICE equivalent of just increasing the gas tank capacity.

Spoiler: If you want to watch it first

My calculation shows that despite Polestar having 20% larger battery than the Tesla, it only went 12% further. I personally think the table I made on the right is the real order...

View attachment 2459423

I find the charging curve one of the most important factors. All go further than my bladder can go. As long as they can top up in about 15-30 minutes it’s good enough.

In the long run, as in evolution, efficiency will come, cars can become a little lighter again. For now it’s largely irrelevant in my opinion.

 

[crzdcolombian]

It's not bad, but there are plenty of better cars. And they need to sort that stupid UI, that doesn't work internationally. Don't get me wrong, our car is from China - it is from Geely.

it comes down to pricing. If they sell you a BYD SUV (think I heard it's 17k) for the price of a Nissan Sentra (22k) thats pretty much half of competitors thats game over. Fine they will get tarriffed and have to do additional things for the US market or other international markets but how can other companies compete with that. Their battery prices are 2-3x cheaper than everyone else.

I loved the software system and the user interface of the BYD when I drove it in china. The coolest thing is it would tell you hey light changes in 10 seconds if you continue in this speed you will make it . That probably wont be a thing here in the US tho. It was really cool

a lot of buyers are all about the price. If they undercut everyone they win.

You dont think if the Samsung galaxy was a Chinese phone and they sold it for 2/3rds or less than an iPhone. it would kill the iPhone? They just decided to go hey same price. On that front I did see a ton of phone brands I never heard of and they were super super cheap.

 

[timber]

BYDs in Europe aren't cheap cars (and that's pre tariffs).
They probably have enormous margins baked into them.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I find the charging curve one of the most important factors. All go further than my bladder can go. As long as they can top up in about 15-30 minutes it’s good enough.

In the long run, as in evolution, efficiency will come, cars can become a little lighter again. For now it’s largely irrelevant in my opinion.

I would think for most EV owners it is these things that matter are:
Can the battery sustain the typical driving day on a single charge
L2 charging time
Annual cost to charge

These are all based on efficiency, not just battery capacity. The larger the battery and the larger the % used daily, the longer it's going to take on L2, and the more it is going to cost to charge.

I might be wrong, but I assume these are the things that MOST EV owners care about... Saving 5 minutes at a fast charger because of a faster charging curve is not as big a deal to most (just to EV nerds). The average EV buyer has no idea about charging curves, shoot most probably don't even precondition their batteries before fast charging. And as we all of said many times in this thread, road tripping is the lease part of the use of a DD vehicle, it's the daily use around town, commuting to work.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I would think for most EV owners it is these things that matter are:
Can the battery sustain the typical driving day on a single charge
L2 charging time
Annual cost to charge

These are all based on efficiency, not just battery capacity. The larger the battery and the larger the % used daily, the longer it's going to take on L2, and the more it is going to cost to charge.

I might be wrong, but I assume these are the things that MOST EV owners care about... Saving 5 minutes at a fast charger because of a faster charging curve is not as big a deal to most (just to EV nerds). The average EV buyer has no idea about charging curves, shoot most probably don't even precondition their batteries before fast charging. And as we all of said many times in this thread, road tripping is the lease part of the use of a DD vehicle, it's the daily use around town, commuting to work.

I think the non EV driver focus on the range and charging time much more than those of us who have lived with EV’s for a few years.
I’ll be charging on a long trip on Thursday. First time since the summer. Will be months before I do again.

Regarding the Chinese cars I read an interesting article. Basically saying how European and US companies have been very good at building engines for years. The Chinese have not.
Now the technology is moving away from engines to batteries, they are way ahead of everyone else. They have the raw materials (they have been buying mines worldwide for years), the infrastructure and understand the technology required.
Add to that cheaper labour costs and their knowledge of the electronic manufacturing in general, it doesn’t take long to see why they are growing their exports and the traditional car companies are struggling.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I think the non EV driver focus on the range and charging time much more than those of us who have lived with EV’s for a few years.
I’ll be charging on a long trip on Thursday. First time since the summer. Will be months before I do again.

I agree. I have 2 EVs (1 for 2 years, the other for 1.5 years), I have fast charged 3 times total. Even if I was doing road trips, it would be 1-4 trips a year.

I do care about L2 charging times because I have 1 connector and 2 EVs with no access to free chargers at work. So when I get home, I back into my garage with my TMY, then run the cable to my wife's TM3. Once hers is finished I move it over and leave it connected to my TMY overnight. I need to be able to get her car back to 80% before I go to bed. So, for me, L2 charging plays a role in my daily life. If I had 1 EV, or 2 connectors, I wouldn't care at all. Had I known I was going to go full EV, I would have gone the extra step and done a 60-amp setup, instead of the 50-amp. We easily make do with the 50-amp setup, but only because my wife uses a maximum of 30% of her TM3's battery daily (in the winter, usually she uses 15%-20%).

I admit, my situation is not common yet, but full EV households are going to become a regular thing, and this will be an issue as having 2 connectors is expensive (you can load share, but it adds a big expense to a home setup).

Simply tossing a bigger battery into an EV doesn't solve this problem, it's all about efficiency.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I agree. I have 2 EVs (1 for 2 years, the other for 1.5 years), I have fast charged 3 times total. Even if I was doing road trips, it would be 1-4 trips a year.

I do care about L2 charging times because I have 1 connector and 2 EVs with no access to free chargers at work. So when I get home, I back into my garage with my TMY, then run the cable to my wife's TM3. Once hers is finished I move it over and leave it connected to my TMY overnight. I need to be able to get her car back to 80% before I go to bed. So, for me, L2 charging plays a role in my daily life. If I had 1 EV, or 2 connectors, I wouldn't care at all. Had I known I was going to go full EV, I would have gone the extra step and done a 60-amp setup, instead of the 50-amp. We easily make do with the 50-amp setup, but only because my wife uses a maximum of 30% of her TM3's battery daily (in the winter, usually she uses 15%-20%).

I admit, my situation is not common yet, but full EV households are going to become a regular thing, and this will be an issue as having 2 connectors is expensive (you can load share, but it adds a big expense to a home setup).

Simply tossing a bigger battery into an EV doesn't solve this problem, it's all about efficiency.

I think it’s less of an issue in the UK as we have 240volt households no messing with different plugs. So the charger we have at work has two sockets. But there is no difference if 1 or 2 cars charge at the same time.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

it comes down to pricing. If they sell you a BYD SUV (think I heard it's 17k) for the price of a Nissan Sentra (22k) thats pretty much half of competitors thats game over. Fine they will get tarriffed and have to do additional things for the US market or other international markets but how can other companies compete with that. Their battery prices are 2-3x cheaper than everyone else.

I loved the software system and the user interface of the BYD when I drove it in china. The coolest thing is it would tell you hey light changes in 10 seconds if you continue in this speed you will make it . That probably wont be a thing here in the US tho. It was really cool

a lot of buyers are all about the price. If they undercut everyone they win.

No, it doesn’t work like that at all. Buy hey if you value cheap then go for it.

You dont think if the Samsung galaxy was a Chinese phone and they sold it for 2/3rds or less than an iPhone. it would kill the iPhone? They just decided to go hey same price. On that front I did see a ton of phone brands I never heard of and they were super super cheap.

Nope it wouldn’t. That used to be the case and it didn’t work. A race to the bottom never had a winner. Now they are trying to compete and price at times even higher and that also doesn’t work.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I think it’s less of an issue in the UK as we have 240volt households no messing with different plugs. So the charger we have at work has two sockets. But there is no difference if 1 or 2 cars charge at the same time.

It's the charger (aka connector) design and the amps going to it. Residential connectors typically are for 1 vehicle, there are some manufactures that make 2 cable connectors (I think Grizzl-E has one).

To simultaneously charge 2 vehicles, you typically need 2 connectors in the residential world, most people's homes do not have 100 amps - 120 amps (or 50 amps - 60 Amps in a 220v country) to spare for simultaneous maximum L2 charging, so you need some way to load share. Tesla wall connectors will load share, but by code you have to put in a junction box to split the wiring. Telsa's connector will also allow prioritization, so it can send up to the full load to one vehicle and reduce charging to the other.

The other easier way is to run a sub panel and split the load to 2 circuits, but you would limit both to 1/2 the speed of available sub panel rating.

It would be the same in the UK, just 1/2 the amps required.

Either way, it is considerably more expensive than a single connector with a higher amp run.

 

[timber]

Let us know what you think.

Well, the TLDR is that if a lot of manufacturers aren't seriously worried they really should be.

It was a short test drive but on a longer note I could say the following:
The car inside is very well put together, with a lot of soft plastics and microfiber and leather (probably of the "vegan" type) surfaces. Reassuring door closing. All in all would say better than my also Chinese Tesla (which are usually considered better than the Freemont kind).
It's designed like a very convencional car with a lot of buttons and controls. It's a bit too oriental (or too busy) for my taste but could certainly live with it. People that dislike Tesla's spartan designs would certainly feel at home. You do loose some of that Tesla openness and freshness that I like.
Didn't have time to properly try out the software but it clearly is slower and in general worse than Tesla's. Yes, it has CarPlay and probably would need it. I'm European so no FSD goodies for me and therefore you loose some of Tesla's advantages. Anyway the only thing I could I saw was the lane warning (orange triangle on side mirrors). I suppose that's a compliment as there weren't any intrusive or irritating warnings, beeps or steering overrides.
It was a RWD unit and it felt quick and brisk, comparable to my also RWD (LR Model 3) Tesla. I would like a stronger regen but the guy I was saddled with probably knew less about the car than I did.
Like I said it was a short drive but the car is smooth, silent and well soundproofed. I drove it too slowly to get a lot of information about its dynamics but I liked what I got.

While I was waiting I spent some time inside a exposition Seal like the one I drove and that's why I got to have some time to evaluate the interior quality. Really nice in my opinion. I also looked at a Dolphin (which has a very European friendly design) and was much less impressed, a lot of hard plastics.

It's the charger (aka connector) design and the amps going to it. Residential connectors typically are for 1 vehicle, there are some manufactures that make 2 cable connectors (I think Grizzl-E has one).

To simultaneously charge 2 vehicles, you typically need 2 connectors in the residential world, most people's homes do not have 100 amps - 120 amps (or 50 amps - 60 Amps in a 220v country) to spare for simultaneous maximum L2 charging, so you need some way to load share. Tesla wall connectors will load share, but by code you have to put in a junction box to split the wiring. Telsa's connector will also allow prioritization, so it can send up to the full load to one vehicle and reduce charging to the other.

The other easier way is to run a sub panel and split the load to 2 circuits, but you would limit both to 1/2 the speed of available sub panel rating.

It would be the same in the UK, just 1/2 the amps required.

Either way, it is considerably more expensive than a single connector with a higher amp run.

Around here above 10,35 kVA (45 A) you always get three phase (i.e. 15 A and 400V compound voltage). If you had 60 A it would mean 41,4 kVA which is in fact the upper limit for normal low voltage, you can have an high contracted power but it requires a more complicated tariff scheme. It also becomes somewhat expensive to have quite high contracted powers.

 

[jz0309]

I would think for most EV owners it is these things that matter are:
Can the battery sustain the typical driving day on a single charge
L2 charging time
Annual cost to charge

These are all based on efficiency, not just battery capacity. The larger the battery and the larger the % used daily, the longer it's going to take on L2, and the more it is going to cost to charge.

I might be wrong, but I assume these are the things that MOST EV owners care about... Saving 5 minutes at a fast charger because of a faster charging curve is not as big a deal to most (just to EV nerds). The average EV buyer has no idea about charging curves, shoot most probably don't even precondition their batteries before fast charging. And as we all of said many times in this thread, road tripping is the lease part of the use of a DD vehicle, it's the daily use around town, commuting to work.

I would disagree, it appears, in the US at least, that range and charging time are the biggest concerns. How valid that is is a different story.
But,for EVs to be gaining share and become more common, people shouldn’t know anything like charging curve and such. Most people want to go from point a to b in the most effective way, not even most efficient way.

The automakers need to do a better job educating people about things like fast charging, home charging and such and make it simple to understand.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It's the charger (aka connector) design and the amps going to it. Residential connectors typically are for 1 vehicle, there are some manufactures that make 2 cable connectors (I think Grizzl-E has one).

To simultaneously charge 2 vehicles, you typically need 2 connectors in the residential world, most people's homes do not have 100 amps - 120 amps (or 50 amps - 60 Amps in a 220v country) to spare for simultaneous maximum L2 charging, so you need some way to load share. Tesla wall connectors will load share, but by code you have to put in a junction box to split the wiring. Telsa's connector will also allow prioritization, so it can send up to the full load to one vehicle and reduce charging to the other.

The other easier way is to run a sub panel and split the load to 2 circuits, but you would limit both to 1/2 the speed of available sub panel rating.

It would be the same in the UK, just 1/2 the amps required.

Either way, it is considerably more expensive than a single connector with a higher amp run.

Given the mileage Mrs AFB does a week it’s unlikely to ever be a consideration for me. She would cover less than 20 miles a week.

I think a lot of people would be fine with charging each car on alternative days. Unless you have a long commute that is.