Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[metapunk2077fail]

That sounds wonderful, but I can only dream. Living in the country is a choice that we made, but even if we lived in Atlanta we would need a car for most everything.

I know I lived in US. The cities there were designed for cars only maybe because oil companies wanted it that way.

 

[danny_w]

I know I lived in US. The cities there were designed for cars only maybe because oil companies wanted it that way.

The only city that I have been to in the US that had decent mass transit was NYC. When I was younger I dreamed of living there, but that is well in the past now. Munich is a dream to get around in (at least when I used to travel there for business in the 90's); I think a car there would actually be a burden.

 

[PracticalMac]

I don’t think the quality of Tesla’s is particularly great under the best of circumstances compared to other cars at the given price points. It’s interesting how the idea of a premium or “luxury” for many consumers these days, especially people my age (millennial) is less about actual quality and more about technology.

One cant compare a BEV to ICE based on price.
A $25k ICE is comparable to a $40k BEV in almost every feature, the difference is in the drive train not enjoying mfg efficiencies.

Some of the defects Tesla passes through their QC is quite amazing given how expensive their cars are and how far cars have come in the past 2-3 decades. It’s absurd the most valuable car company in the world has such difficulty putting together their vehicles.

Elon admits they had trouble, quality has greatly improved, working to make better. Then again pressure to crank out cars means some items are little than ideal. Its a challenge.

I’ve always thought Tesla would be more successful if they manufactured drivetrains and autonomous tech for other brands, while retaining a small manufacturing of exclusive vehicles (ie Roadster) they can charge $250k for.

Horrible idea, will delay by years BEV adoption. And if I heard correctly, Tesla did offer to be absorbed by a big auto maker, no takers, so they decided go on own.

Additionally, they could license out their supercharger network.

They are, starting with trials in Norway this month.

Most manufactures have little issue with their assembly but seem to struggle to keep up with technology and lack innovative thinking.

No, it is being stuck in old habits. GM made the first BEV car in 1994, literally crushed it for ICE.
Nissan was second in 2011 with Leaf, but was clearly a half hearted design, little effort to improve.

Infotainment systems often seem to be behind where they should be compared to cell phones for example. Tesla can lead the industry in EV, autonomous, and in-car technology in most cases,

True

but struggle to assemble their cars properly. And I’ve heard way too many cases of people having problems purchasing their car and with support/maintenance.

Pretty much everyone I know with a Tesla has multiple horror stories of nonsensical issues I’ve never heard of with legacy brands. It’s amazing what people put up with. A British sports car as your weekend toy is one thing, your daily driver is another.

Growing pains, have to watch how things improve (both of us)

My dad is a Land Rover fanatic so I understand the irrational love of impractical cars. But I never found Teslas as invigorating as many owners do. I’ve driven them and ridden in them. They don’t particularly move me. But to each his (or her own).

All good, personal tastes.

I’m not anti-EV either. I think the Taycan and Rivian are very appealing. I don’t think an EV makes sense yet for me personally, but I’m sure things will be changing quickly. People should be concerned about the increasing number of EV’s (I expect within 10 years EV’s will dominate the new car market), the growing power generation insufficiency the US is facing especially in certain areas, and how we will accommodate an ever increasing demand on our power grid. Anyone deeply knowledgeable about power generation will tell you solar panels and wind turbines are not going to be the solution.

I read some reports and posts by people in industry, and they fully believe supply will keep up with BEV demand. Renewable are more than able to provide the majority of power, and as storage systems are added (not just battery) then load balancing is doable.
Infrastructure bill greatly helps.

 

[PracticalMac]

The only city that I have been to in the US that had decent mass transit was NYC. When I was younger I dreamed of living there, but that is well in the past now. Munich is a dream to get around in (at least when I used to travel there for business in the 90's); I think a car there would actually be a burden.

When I go Europe, I use MT. Avoid rental cars unless I absolutely have to.
My Munich trip was fantastic (have excellent museums)

 

[PracticalMac]

I will say that despite the polarizing name,

Due to a really bad marketing decision IMHO.
Small ish 2 door muscle car that coined the name "pony car", to a larger 4 door hatchback that does have a hard time racing the ICE version. IOW, dilute the brand identity, taint what is one of Fords best sellers.

"F150" OTOH is a class size, not so much as name, like Ram 1500 which indicats load capacity (IIRC).

After weeks of reviews, the opinion is Mach-E (a good name) is one of the best EV on market, but right now is well behind Tesla offerings. Not attractive to me, but great to see one on market.

 

[PracticalMac]

Our condo has some EV advocates, but the cost to put chargers in the underground parking lot is around $10,000 per space IF the grid can support all of them. More complicated than some realize.

Is that for a Level 3?
I did some pricing, per spot a Level 1 can be done for ~$150, Level 2 for ~$1000 (depending on distance from panel, adding conduit extra)

 

[3SQ Machine]

Due to a really bad marketing decision IMHO.

I go back and forth on this. Polarizing, no doubt. But wow did the stir give it a lot of attention--much more than they would have gotten for something vanilla like an "Escape-E." The controversy got my attention, and made me want to sit in one "to see what the fuss was about."

 

[zagato27]

I am SOOOOO ready to get an EV.
And while I looked at others, it is very hard to beat a Tesla.
Just the "gimmicks" alone are a attractive (and I am not a gimmick guy).
It is so UN-like a car.

I am not going in blind, Engineering Explained has great critical videos on his experience with EV's.
He does a good job of a neutral review of the basic, and is critical of somethings, but so far not enough salt to discount a Tesla.

In past I was considering a Leaf and a Volt (and other plug-in). Ironically Prius Plugin is not on lots in Texas, dealer does not say why.
And I do not go to country like I used to, so almost all in a (very big) city.

What you fine folks think?

First post I've read. I'm really interested in purchasing an EV. I currently drive a Audi S4, which I love with exception of the mpg and the maintenance and a Subaru Outback (wifey's) which is awesome too. I've been doing a lot of looking/researching. If you want some really good info look to YouTube. Sandy Munro and his tear downs of the Ford Mustang E and the VW ID4 and comparing them to Tesla makes for interesting viewing. If you want reviews, there's one guy and one guy only....Bjorn Nyland and one more interesting guy...The Electric Viking. Bjorn for the reviews and Viking for what's going on here and abroad in the ev world. I'll subscribe to this thread and catch up on the posts. The Ioniq 5 and EV-6 are going to five Tesla some competition when they get here (US) Cheers

 

[Mega ST]

For commuting it might be nice if you can charge it in your garage. I don't see any way for me to ever charge it. Neither at home nor at places I drive to. I would not want to modify my routes and wait at chargers. Plus maybe for the guy in front of me to top off his battery first.

 

[macsound1]

I’m agreeing with the above about ICE vehicles can get north of 45mpg, including my VW. Why are we resigning to starting from scratch on how people drive and refill “fuel” instead of continuing to push the envelope toward doubling all vehicles fuel economy every few years.

 

[quagmire]

I’m agreeing with the above about ICE vehicles can get north of 45mpg, including my VW. Why are we resigning to starting from scratch on how people drive and refill “fuel” instead of continuing to push the envelope toward doubling all vehicles fuel economy every few years.

Complexity and cost.....

EV's will only get cheaper as adoption increases. GM already has stated that the Equinox EV will be sub-$30K. Cost of adding every trick in the book to a gas engine to improve fuel economy is just going to go up. Also the complexity of said engine or the overall complexity of the drivetrain( in a hybrids case) is going to increase. There will be a point where the cost to squeeze another mile per gallon out of the vehicle is not going to be economical.

Manufactures are jumping in now with EV's not because of any serious care about the environment or being green. Sure it makes for a great PR campaign, etc. But manufactures are jumping in because EV's simplify development and manufacturing. Let's take GM for example. They have around 8 vehicle platforms. By going EV, they can shrink that to 2-3 platforms and it will be modular. So all they need to do is just adjust battery size and a few other things to fit the particular vehicle. That will save GM billions on developmental costs. It will be the same for Ford, Toyota, etc.

 

[VictorTango777]

Is that for a Level 3?
I did some pricing, per spot a Level 1 can be done for ~$150, Level 2 for ~$1000 (depending on distance from panel, adding conduit extra)

Level 1 is not practical for full EVs with high capacity batteries. For Level 2 there are multiple options depending on how they want to manage billing:
1. A networked charger such as ChargePoint which bills individual drivers
2. A non-networked charger that does not require an account
3. The cheapest option is to provide a 240 V outlet and the car owners plug in their own chargers

Does the property have assigned parking spaces? In the case of non-networked chargers, how would the charging costs per resident be determined?

I’m agreeing with the above about ICE vehicles can get north of 45mpg, including my VW. Why are we resigning to starting from scratch on how people drive and refill “fuel” instead of continuing to push the envelope toward doubling all vehicles fuel economy every few years.

The US was supposed to raise fuel economy standards to 54 mpg but that was rolled back by the last president. Car and oil companies most likely had a hand in the rollback.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’m agreeing with the above about ICE vehicles can get north of 45mpg, including my VW. Why are we resigning to starting from scratch on how people drive and refill “fuel” instead of continuing to push the envelope toward doubling all vehicles fuel economy every few years.

Exactly. Why not limit engine sizes and vehicle weight? That would improve fuel economy. Instead we have massive engined SUV’s driving one person around at less than 35mpg. Not very green.

 

[diamond.g]

Exactly. Why not limit engine sizes and vehicle weight? That would improve fuel economy. Instead we have massive engined SUV’s driving one person around at less than 35mpg. Not very green.

Folks feel that bigger vehicles are safer and like the "better" visibility that xUVs provide.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Folks feel that bigger vehicles are safer and like the "better" visibility that xUVs provide.

Well safer for the occupants. Not so much for people who get hit by them.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Setting aside all the green benefits (my power is 25% minimum renewable), I love my EV because it feel very zippy, it's less expensive to drive, and it's quiet.

It didn't cost much more than an equivalent ICE car - especially considering all the interior niceties it has. But even a very efficient 50mpg car still costs $15+ to drive 200 miles in fuel alone. In California and other places where gas prices are insane right now, $200 miles at 50mpg can easily be $20+ in gas. Whereas my EV and local electricity rates get me 200 miles for under $5. If I leverage free charging at some parking lots (not truly free, but included in the cost of parking that I need to pay for anyway) it's even less.

The zippiness is great too. My EV is not sporty by any means (nor is it a Tesla), but acceleration at low speeds has a really fun feel. It's quicker from a light than pretty much any car I've driven except for some 400+hp sports cars - certainly WAY quicker than any 45mpg ICE car.

Lastly, I think the benefits of quietness cannot be overstated. I've payed for luxury cars in the past just to get better insulation and less engine / road noise. Road noise is one of the main things I research when buying tires. I hate how loud it is inside most cars. The EV is like a cloud in comparison to even plush luxury cars in terms of noise - especially at lower speeds when wind and road noise as not as much of a factor. I love that part of it.

 

[oneMadRssn]

I’m agreeing with the above about ICE vehicles can get north of 45mpg, including my VW. Why are we resigning to starting from scratch on how people drive and refill “fuel” instead of continuing to push the envelope toward doubling all vehicles fuel economy every few years.

Exactly. Why not limit engine sizes and vehicle weight? That would improve fuel economy. Instead we have massive engined SUV’s driving one person around at less than 35mpg. Not very green.

Depends on the driving you do. Even the most efficient ICE cars only get those high MPG numbers when at consistent highway speeds.

But even the best ICE car won't get over 15mpg on a ~10 minute drive inside of a suburb, on a cold engine, not over 30mph, and with lots of stop signs or red lights. This is a typical suburb drive to, for example, go to a local convenience store, get take-out, or drop the kid off at daycare.

That kind of driving is where EVs shine. The fact EVs can recapture stopping energy and (non hybrid) ICE cars cannot makes a huuuuge efficiency difference alone, to say nothing of the rest of the efficiency advantages. As best as I can tell from my EVs power meter, it doesn't care how I drive the miles, it's mostly all the same. 5 miles on the highway or 5 miles around town, it's about all the same. And when it's around town, the efficiency just blows any ICE car out of the water.

 

[Mega ST]

How much brake energy can be harvested and used to charge in real life? I am not talking about driving downhill from a mountain pass for miles but about city traffic. It's just seconds of charging each? And your EV is super heavy due to battery weight. Accelerating and braking a super heavy vehicle doesn't sound too "green" in stop and go traffic at all to me? A light weight, small engine, small sized, softly driven ICE car might even be more efficient from my view.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Depends on the driving you do. Even the most efficient ICE cars only get those high MPG numbers when at consistent highway speeds.

But even the best ICE car won't get over 15mpg on a ~10 minute drive inside of a suburb, on a cold engine, not over 30mph, and with lots of stop signs or red lights. This is a typical suburb drive to, for example, go to a local convenience store, get take-out, or drop the kid off at daycare.

That kind of driving is where EVs shine. The fact EVs can recapture stopping energy and (non hybrid) ICE cars cannot makes a huuuuge efficiency difference alone, to say nothing of the rest of the efficiency advantages. As best as I can tell from my EVs power meter, it doesn't care how I drive the miles, it's mostly all the same. 5 miles on the highway or 5 miles around town, it's about all the same. And when it's around town, the efficiency just blows any ICE car out of the water.

I just headed into town this afternoon. It’s a 4 mile trip. A bit of traffic. No motorways. 41mpg. Now I drive an efficient 1.4 litre engine car and don’t drive like an idiot (fast or slow!). I’m not saying electric vehicles aren’t part of the solution. But I think there is a lot more we could do right now in our car choices and driving style.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Folks feel that bigger vehicles are safer and like the "better" visibility that xUVs provide.

That’s my wife’s view which is why we have an SUV as our main family car. She’s uses it daily but I prefer a smaller car on a daily commute. Once the kids have left home, I hope we can get a medium sized hatch.

 

[oneMadRssn]

How much brake energy can be harvested and used to charge in real life? I am not talking about driving downhill from a mountain pass for miles but about city traffic. It's just seconds of charging each? And your EV is super heavy due to battery weight. Accelerating and braking a super heavy vehicle doesn't sound too "green" in stop and go traffic at all to me? A light weight, small engine, small sized, softly driven ICE car might even be more efficient from my view.

The amount of energy re-captured can vary, but it's 15%-70% of the kinetic energy depending on circumstances. The point is that ICE vehicles lose 100% of the kinetic energy upon braking. As soon as you hit the brake, 100% of that energy is gone.

In terms of weight, they're not that heavy. My EV weighs 3,400lbs, and it's about the size and capacity of a Honda Civic, which weighs 3,000 lbs. So there is a difference, it's not that big. In terms of %, the regen braking certainly saves more energy than the extra weight uses up in terms of kinetic energy.

 

[oneMadRssn]

I just headed into town this afternoon. It’s a 4 mile trip. A bit of traffic. No motorways. 41mpg. Now I drive an efficient 1.4 litre engine car and don’t drive like an idiot (fast or slow!). I’m not saying electric vehicles aren’t part of the solution. But I think there is a lot more we could do right now in our car choices and driving style.

Really? Did you reset the trip odometer and mpg meter at the start of the trip? I honestly find that hard to believe, what car is this? 41mpg on a cold engine 4 mile around town trip is Honda Insight (first gen) territory, which is record holder on ICE efficiency (and also it's a hybrid).

 

[quagmire]

Really? Did you reset the trip odometer and mpg meter at the start of the trip? I honestly find that hard to believe, what car is this? 41mpg on a cold engine 4 mile around town trip is Honda Insight (first gen) territory, which is record holder on ICE efficiency (and also it's a hybrid).

Keep in mind that is 41 MPG using UK measurement. 41 MPG UK is roughly 34 MPG US. Also that is probably diesel instead of gasoline and diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Really? Did you reset the trip odometer and mpg meter at the start of the trip? I honestly find that hard to believe, what car is this? 41mpg on a cold engine 4 mile around town trip is Honda Insight (first gen) territory, which is record holder on ICE efficiency (and also it's a hybrid).

Its automatically reset at the start of each journey. It's a 1.4 TSI VW Golf from 2015.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Keep in mind that is 41 MPG using UK measurement. 41 MPG UK is roughly 34 MPG US. Also that is probably diesel instead of gasoline and diesel is more efficient than gasoline.

Petrol. Hadn't considered the US/UK gallon thing though!