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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

Apple fanboy said:
Its automatically reset at the start of each journey. It's a 1.4 TSI VW Golf from 2015.
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Ah nice. I love Golfs. I was thiiiiis close to buying an 2019 eGolf recently - they were practically giving them away around here at the start of the pandemic, and now they're fetching pretty crazy prices 2 years later. I wish I had, but the baby stroller we have doesn't fit in the trunk.
 
oneMadRssn said:
Ah nice. I love Golfs. I was thiiiiis close to buying an 2019 eGolf recently - they were practically giving them away around here at the start of the pandemic, and now they're fetching pretty crazy prices 2 years later. I wish I had, but the baby stroller we have doesn't fit in the trunk.
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No need of strollers here. But you can get plenty in the boot (or trunk as you guys call it!).
I'd probably go ID4 over e Golf. But neither on the horizon for a few years for me.
 
Apple fanboy said:
No need of strollers here. But you can get plenty in the boot (or trunk as you guys call it!).
I'd probably go ID4 over e Golf. But neither on the horizon for a few years for me.
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Agreed, but the wait time on an ID.4 right now is crazy. I was quoted July 2022 delivery at the earliest if ordered in October 2021. There are some ready to buy on dealer lots, but they're all over MSRP (often considerably over).

I agree the egolf has some major downsides. The range is meh, the base models did not come with fast charging nor a heat pump, and their aerodynamics are not great for an EV. However, I think for an around-town car they're pretty perfect; especially in late 2019 / early 2020 when they were going for close to $10k-15k new off the lot after all the incentives and discounts. Today, those 2019 models are selling for $25k-$30k used easily. This market is nuts.
 
I truly think if there is anybody able to optimise EV usability for me it will be Apple. I hope they get fast processors, maps, AI and autonomous driving and fully automated charging aligned in time for their car release. I still consider "real" car manufacturers superior for the driving machine part. So hopefully Apple picks somebody like Toyota, BMW or similar as their manufacturing and development partner.
 
macsound1 said:
I’m agreeing with the above about ICE vehicles can get north of 45mpg, including my VW. Why are we resigning to starting from scratch on how people drive and refill “fuel” instead of continuing to push the envelope toward doubling all vehicles fuel economy every few years.
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ICE is inherently inefficient and you will never be able to overcome that. The process has a maximum efficiency of maybe 35% in the real world. The main benefit of it is that gasoline/diesel is extremely energy dense when compared to batteries. So the main issue is the fuel for EVs.
 
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Mega ST said:
I truly think if there is anybody able to optimise EV usability for me it will be Apple. I hope they get fast processors, maps, AI and autonomous driving and fully automated charging aligned in time for their car release. I still consider "real" car manufacturers superior for the driving machine part. So hopefully Apple picks somebody like Toyota, BMW or similar as their manufacturing and development partner.
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I’d be curious how long you would be willing to wait if you’re in the EV market or just browsing. I wager the ‘Apple Car’ (If one actually launches ) won’t be at least until 2025, and that’s if logistics actually play out, given how the auto market shows no signs of balancing with suppliers. And given how Apple has loads of anticipated hype, who knows when they would actually be able to fulfill orders, which could take years ahead of the launch.

Anyways, I think the take-away points for those in the market, is 1.) Navigating around inflation, 2.) Waiting for additional manufacturer options, and— 3.) Infrastructure expansion.
 
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macsound1 said:
I’m agreeing with the above about ICE vehicles can get north of 45mpg, including my VW. Why are we resigning to starting from scratch on how people drive and refill “fuel” instead of continuing to push the envelope toward doubling all vehicles fuel economy every few years.
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58 MPG was possible in the early 1990's, without being hybrid.

VW made a hybrid with an eye popping MPG of 120 to 240 miles (!!!!).

but people wanted BIG.

Heck, my 1977 Thunderbird managed 21 MPG on the highway, about the same as todays trucks, without all the DOHC, SFI, etc etc.
IOW, ICE auto tech regressed 20 years from its peak, and the auto industry and most consumers seem to have no interest in going back.
 
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VictorTango777 said:
Level 1 is not practical for full EVs with high capacity batteries. For Level 2 there are multiple options depending on how they want to manage billing:
1. A networked charger such as ChargePoint which bills individual drivers
2. A non-networked charger that does not require an account
3. The cheapest option is to provide a 240 V outlet and the car owners plug in their own chargers

Does the property have assigned parking spaces? In the case of non-networked chargers, how would the charging costs per resident be determined?
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What Level a driver needs depends on daily usage.
For me, Level 1 is more than enough, I could go 4~5 days with out needing a charge, and get to 80% (local drive settings) in 12 hours of charge.

Those who drive over 20 miles a day benefit from Level 2. You are correct if there is a billing service there is cost of service, but if not, then the price I quote is sufficient.
Some retail locations will pay for the $1 of electricity to have a customer spend and hour at their location, cheap advertising. In this case a simple timer on a low cost charge will do the job just fine.

As to locations at a complex, yes, how it is billed can vary greatly, all depending on layout.
 
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PracticalMac said:
58 MPG was possible in the early 1990's, without being hybrid.

VW made a hybrid with an eye popping MPG of 120 to 240 miles (!!!!).

but people wanted BIG.

Heck, my 1977 Thunderbird managed 21 MPG on the highway, about the same as todays trucks, without all the DOHC, SFI, etc etc.
IOW, ICE auto tech regressed 20 years from its peak, and the auto industry and most consumers seem to have no interest in going back.
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That high MPG concept car is a plug-in series hybrid. It's basically an EV that happens to have an onboard diesel generator. The ICE engine there is not connected to wheels at all, in terms of making it go it's all EV.

I think it sort of proves the point. The only way we can get big improvements to efficiency is with EV technology.

Also, ICE auto tech did not regress. Rather, we expect cars to be a lot safer today, and that safety tech is heavy. Also emissions controls add some weight.

The 80s Honda CRX could get 60-80mpg in optimal conditions. It weighed 1700lbs. But it was also death trap in even lower-speed accidents. Look up some of the crash tests, that thing has the structural support of a Kleenex. The Honda CRZ was supposed to be it's modern spiritual successor. Similar dimensions, it weighed 2700lbs, but it was much much safer. It had well-designed crumple zones, strengthened passenger compartment, air bags, and sensors. That extra 1000 pounds is pretty much all safety and tech.

That's what changed. ICE just cannot keep up with our increasing safety, tech, and emissions demands.


PracticalMac said:
What Level a driver needs depends on daily usage.
For me, Level 1 is more than enough, I could go 4~5 days with out needing a charge, and get to 80% (local drive settings) in 12 hours of charge.

Those who drive over 20 miles a day benefit from Level 2. You are correct if there is a billing service there is cost of service, but if not, then the price I quote is sufficient.
Some retail locations will pay for the $1 of electricity to have a customer spend and hour at their location, cheap advertising. In this case a simple timer on a low cost charge will do the job just fine.

As to locations at a complex, yes, how it is billed can vary greatly, all depending on layout.
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I can get by with level 1, but around here a level 2 charger is quite subsidized so I figured might as well get it. I think total cost with installation and everything was under $1000. Plus it has the benefit of better being able to take advantage of variable electricity pricing (being able to juice-up during the exact hours when cost is lowest).
 
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I've bought a Tesla Model S in 2017 and it's by far the best car I've owned. Electric cars just make sense as long as you aren't going 150+ MPH all of the time. Around town you've got more acceleration than anyone else and you just about never use your brakes thanks to regenerative braking. I've done several cross-country trips and the Tesla with an air suspension lets you drive 1,000 miles a day easily because there's no engine vibration to tire you out.

My prior cars were Mercedes E-class AMGs and BMWs. I spent quite a lot of money on maintenance for those cars. My Tesla just consumes windshield wipers, tires and the occasional brake fluid change. Outside of that it's been *flawless*.

I'm very interested in the new Ford F-150 Lightning, but I think I'd wait 1 -2 years for Ford to iron out any issues.
 
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robd003 said:
I've bought a Tesla Model S in 2017 and it's by far the best car I've owned. Electric cars just make sense as long as you aren't going 150+ MPH all of the time. Around town you've got more acceleration than anyone else and you just about never use your brakes thanks to regenerative braking. I've done several cross-country trips and the Tesla with an air suspension lets you drive 1,000 miles a day easily because there's no engine vibration to tire you out.

My prior cars were Mercedes E-class AMGs and BMWs. I spent quite a lot of money on maintenance for those cars. My Tesla just consumes windshield wipers, tires and the occasional brake fluid change. Outside of that it's been *flawless*.

I'm very interested in the new Ford F-150 Lightning, but I think I'd wait 1 -2 years for Ford to iron out any issues.
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Curious, with a Tesla, do you have to take it to the Tesla 'dealer' to have wipers, brake fluid changes and such, performed?
 
Wipers, air filter, wiper fluid are all items Tesla says you can do yourself. Brake fluid (brake pads) and tires supposedly can be done by third parties.
 
Can we address the amount of goal post moving by people who argue against EVs:

Range
First people complain that it can't go 100 miles on a charge.
When EVs start going 200 miles on a charge, then the argument becomes it can't go 300 miles.
When it goes 300 miles, then the argument becomes it can't go 1000 miles.

Battery life
First people complain that EV batteries have short lifespans.
When Toyota increases their hybrid battery warranty to 10 years/150,000 miles, and when Tesla vehicle data shows only 10 percent battery degradation after 200,000 miles, then the argument becomes you can't replace individual battery cells.

Charging time
First people complain that EV charging takes several hours.
When DC fast charging becomes available, then the argument becomes it's not under an hour.
When the newest DC fast chargers can charge to 80% in 30 minutes, then the argument becomes it's not under 10 minutes.

Performance
First people complain that EVs are like golf carts.
When EVs like Tesla outrace multimillion dollar supercars and even motorcycles, then the argument becomes who needs that much power and speed anyway?
 
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For many people, who made a mistake is very hard to say it - a specially expensive mistake.
 
oneMadRssn said:
Depends on the driving you do. Even the most efficient ICE cars only get those high MPG numbers when at consistent highway speeds.

But even the best ICE car won't get over 15mpg on a ~10 minute drive inside of a suburb, on a cold engine, not over 30mph, and with lots of stop signs or red lights. This is a typical suburb drive to, for example, go to a local convenience store, get take-out, or drop the kid off at daycare.

That kind of driving is where EVs shine. The fact EVs can recapture stopping energy and (non hybrid) ICE cars cannot makes a huuuuge efficiency difference alone, to say nothing of the rest of the efficiency advantages. As best as I can tell from my EVs power meter, it doesn't care how I drive the miles, it's mostly all the same. 5 miles on the highway or 5 miles around town, it's about all the same. And when it's around town, the efficiency just blows any ICE car out of the water.
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Some ICE engines do have regenerative braking to help recharge the battery. I'm sure it isn't as useful as on an EV because on an EV you can really feel the braking effect.
A lot of ICE cars have 'stop n start' too so the engine cuts out at traffic lights and if you are driving round town it does make a huge difference
But for town driving EVs really have a clear advantage as you say and I totally agree with you about noise and the torque it great.
 
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Driving wilder to feel the torque wastes the energy that was intended to be saved in the first place. Doing this in a heavy car like any battery powered one is neither efficient nor "green". Driving cars in cities EV or not is not efficient at all this is why public transport got invented.
 
Mega ST said:
Driving wilder to feel the torque wastes the energy that was intended to be saved in the first place. Doing this in a heavy car like any battery powered one is neither efficient nor "green". Driving cars in cities EV or not is not efficient at all this is why public transport got invented.
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I didn’t realize my entire life was about being a perfect, efficient driver. The underlying technology is still much more efficient. What do you think happens when you go full throttle on an ICE vehicle?

I’m not even sure what you’re arguing at this point, because getting rid of cars in the US is just being delusional.
 
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marigo said:
Frankly speaking, this is discussion like boys with a cars toys on battery.
When battery is finished enjoying is finished too.
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If I'm understanding you correctly, I completely agree.
It's not how fast the battery charges, how long the battery life is, or how many horses it has, it's that what we've come to expect out of our expensive rolling transport is flexibility in nearly every aspect, something that EVs can't live up to.
 
VictorTango777 said:
Can we address the amount of goal post moving by people who argue against EVs:

Range
First people complain that it can't go 100 miles on a charge.
When EVs start going 200 miles on a charge, then the argument becomes it can't go 300 miles.
When it goes 300 miles, then the argument becomes it can't go 1000 miles.

Battery life
First people complain that EV batteries have short lifespans.
When Toyota increases their hybrid battery warranty to 10 years/150,000 miles, and when Tesla vehicle data shows only 10 percent battery degradation after 200,000 miles, then the argument becomes you can't replace individual battery cells.

Charging time
First people complain that EV charging takes several hours.
When DC fast charging becomes available, then the argument becomes it's not under an hour.
When the newest DC fast chargers can charge to 80% in 30 minutes, then the argument becomes it's not under 10 minutes.

Performance
First people complain that EVs are like golf carts.
When EVs like Tesla outrace multimillion dollar supercars and even motorcycles, then the argument becomes who needs that much power and speed anyway?
Click to expand...

EV’s need to reach a stage where they charge as quickly as filling a tank with fuel. At the moment it’s great a small percentage of vehicles are electric, but we are still 10+ years away from it being feasible for mass adoption. People complain because EV’s are supposedly going to be the norm by 2030 and most countries simply aren’t ready for them. I am hoping the zero emission Diesel engines the German car manufacturers are investing in will be an additional option by the 8 year deadline.
 
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