Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[icanhazmac]

The bumper sticker movement is getting even bigger after yesterday's antics, or at least internationally. I've seen lots of them in the BeNeLux, is this happening elsewhere as well?

Anti-Elon Musk Tesla Bumper Sticker Sales Booming Post-Election

The guy behind those anti-Elon Musk bumper stickers for your Tesla says sales are

insideevs.com

I haven't seen any, but that is some first rate virtue signaling!

While I have had a magnet or two over my lifetime, I have never even remotely considered putting a sticker on my paint. My fav was an Opie and Anthony WOW magnet.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I am surprised (not really) that this isn't widely reported...

US safety regulators expand Ford hands-free driving tech investigation | TechCrunch

A U.S. federal safety regulator has “upgraded” its investigation into Ford's hands-free advanced driver assistance system known as BlueCruise — a required

techcrunch.com

That is pretty shocking considering it is only a level 2 system. I must admit that I'm still amazed that their system is allowed in Europe, but that Tesla's isn't. It is good there is an investigation into it, I hope it gets more attention and moves the industry forward.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I haven't seen any, but that is some first rate virtue signaling!

It is, but then again, it shouldn't be underestimated how he is viewed in Europe. What he is stirring up is still very sensitive and is outside people's tolerances.

While I have had a magnet or two over my lifetime, I have never even remotely considered putting a sticker on my paint. My fav was an Opie and Anthony WOW magnet.

You can get nice vinyl stickers that don't leave a trace

 

[dmr727]

Yeah, I don't even apply the stickers that give me access to the MOV lane. I'm not putting that crap on my i4 - I'd rather sit in traffic.

 

[diamond.g]

That is pretty shocking considering it is only a level 2 system. I must admit that I'm still amazed that their system is allowed in Europe, but that Tesla's isn't. It is good there is an investigation into it, I hope it gets more attention and moves the industry forward.

That it doesn't stop/recognize stopped vehicles on the side of the highway is the same thing folks roasted Tesla about.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

That it doesn't stop/recognize stopped vehicles on the side of the highway is the same thing folks roasted Tesla about.

I didn't know Tesla doesn't do that either. I mean that is pretty basic and elementary for any kind of ADAS system, I've had plenty of ICE vehicles that did that for years. I'm sure there is more to this story.

 

[diamond.g]

I didn't know Tesla doesn't do that either. I mean that is pretty basic and elementary for any kind of ADAS system, I've had plenty of ICE vehicles that did that for years. I'm sure there is more to this story.

Tesla does now, due to it being vision based, but it didn't before. Or at least in most cases it will stop, unless it comes across a turned over vehicle (hasn't been trained in the NN). I am pretty sure most vehicles have some wording in the owners manual that indicates it may not stop for parked cars, or some such variation of that phrase.

Think of it like having TACC enabled and coming up to an intersection with an already stopped car. Do you trust that your car will see the vehicle (that isn't moving) and not plow into the back of it?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Tesla does now, due to it being vision based, but it didn't before. Or at least in most cases it will stop, unless it comes across a turned over vehicle (hasn't been trained in the NN). I am pretty sure most vehicles have some wording in the owners manual that indicates it may not stop for parked cars, or some such variation of that phrase.

Think of it like having TACC enabled and coming up to an intersection with an already stopped car. Do you trust that your car will see the vehicle (that isn't moving) and not plow into the back of it?

Why would you be on automatic cruise control when coming up to a junction? Don't forget this is a level 2 system, all it is allowed to do is hands-off driving, but driver attention is required. This is not a full self driving system. In Europe the system is only allowed on pre-planned (is the correct term I think) motorways (highways), and not allowed in town/city traffic.

 

[diamond.g]

Why would you be on automatic cruise control when coming up to a junction? Don't forget this is a level 2 system, all it is allowed to do is hands-off driving, but driver attention is required. This is not a full self driving system. In Europe the system is only allowed on pre-planned (is the correct term I think) motorways (highways), and not allowed in town/city traffic.

Ah, maybe I am trying to explain this poorly.

Really I am just trying to say that few vehicles in the US will stop for car parked on the highway without that car being seen as a lead car and slowing down in front of you first. Maybe EU traffic patterns don't have this happening.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Since we are discussing ADAS. I got Tesla OS 2024.45.25.15 FSDs 12.6.1 on Thursday night on my TMY, the TM3 is still behind.

There is now a split in the FSDs software between HW3 and HW4 vehicles. HW4 has been on v13, HW3 have been waiting for a more streamlined version. This is the first major update to the Highway portion in 5 or so years. There was a big jump in FSDs from v11 to v12 where they dropped the old programming code and did basically a ground up redesign using AI for City Streets. v13 (for HW4) and v12.6 take this same redesign to the old programming code used for the highways using AI.

As many people (including myself) have reported over the last year, v12 was a HUGE Leap in how FSDs functioned on city streets, v12.6/v13 has that same level of improvement on the highway. It is shocking how much improvement there is. One huge change is that it seems like the old highway stack was simply watching the vehicle in front of you for gauging speed and stopping distance, this new version seems to watch the traffic ahead of that lead car and starts to react before the lead car apply brakes. It handles construction zones, highway merges/exits significantly better.

I made a trip from Long Island to an event in downtown Queens, with a mix of suburbs, highway and city streets. I am very impressed with this latest version. Like always you have to remain aware and prepared.

*As my parents are getting older (late 80's now) they have reached a level where it takes a lot for them to drive to the store or doctor's offices. These driver's assistance systems are what we need to keep our elder generations mobile. Mass transit is not a solution for everywhere, so we need these systems to fill the void.

Release Notes:

2024.45.25.15 (FSD 12.6.1 & 13.2.4) Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates

Tesla software update 2024.45.25.15 (FSD 12.6.1 & 13.2.4) includes FSD (Supervised) v12.6.1, FSD (Supervised) v13.2.4, Full Self-Driving (Supervised), Update to Data Sharing, Camera Visibility Detection, Precipitation Map and Weather at Destination.

www.notateslaapp.com

 

[diamond.g]

Since we are discussing ADAS. I got Tesla OS 2024.45.25.15 FSDs 12.6.1 on Thursday night on my TMY, the TM3 is still behind.

There is now a split in the FSDs software between HW3 and HW4 vehicles. HW4 has been on v13, HW3 have been waiting for a more streamlined version. This is the first major update to the Highway portion in 5 or so years. There was a big jump in FSDs from v11 to v12 where they dropped the old programming code and did basically a ground up redesign using AI for City Streets. v13 (for HW4) and v12.6 take this same redesign to the old programming code used for the highways using AI.

As many people (including myself) have reported over the last year, v12 was a HUGE Leap in how FSDs functioned on city streets, v12.6/v13 has that same level of improvement on the highway. It is shocking how much improvement there is. One huge change is that it seems like the old highway stack was simply watching the vehicle in front of you for gauging speed and stopping distance, this new version seems to watch the traffic ahead of that lead car and starts to react before the lead car apply brakes. It handles construction zones, highway merges/exits significantly better.

I made a trip from Long Island to an event in downtown Queens, with a mix of suburbs, highway and city streets. I am very impressed with this latest version. Like always you have to remain aware and prepared.

*As my parents are getting older (late 80's now) they have reached a level where it takes a lot for them to drive to the store or doctor's offices. These driver's assistance systems are what we need to keep our elder generations mobile. Mass transit is not a solution for everywhere, so we need these systems to fill the void.

Release Notes:

2024.45.25.15 (FSD 12.6.1 & 13.2.4) Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates

Tesla software update 2024.45.25.15 (FSD 12.6.1 & 13.2.4) includes FSD (Supervised) v12.6.1, FSD (Supervised) v13.2.4, Full Self-Driving (Supervised), Update to Data Sharing, Camera Visibility Detection, Precipitation Map and Weather at Destination.

www.notateslaapp.com

v13 is quite nice. I like that the speed profiles work under 50mph now.

 

[JT2002TJ]

v13 is quite nice. I like that the speed profiles work under 50mph now.

I wish I had HW4 in either of my Teslas so I could see v13 and be able to report back. But v12.6 does introduce the same speed profiles, max speed, and % offset like your HW4 v13. It is impressive...

 

[diamond.g]

I wish I had HW4 in either of my Teslas so I could see v13 and be able to report back. But v12.6 does introduce the same speed profiles, max speed, and % offset like your HW4 v13. It is impressive...

School zones/busses, and emergency vehicles are still areas of concern.

I know the vehicle is supposed to move over for emergency services, but I haven't seen it move over for a cop car that has pulled someone over yet. I also say someone on TMC say v13 stopped for a school bus, but I don't believe it, lol. The car still ignores school zone speed limits.

 

[timber]

That is pretty shocking considering it is only a level 2 system. I must admit that I'm still amazed that their system is allowed in Europe, but that Tesla's isn't. It is good there is an investigation into it, I hope it gets more attention and moves the industry forward.

Just a wild guess but Ford probably decided to work with whoever regulates this and Tesla didn't bother. It's not like FSD works everywhere expect Europe.

I didn't pay the extra (nobody does, it's basically offering money to Tesla) and it's a automatic cruise control with lane keeping. It doesn't change lanes. It's useful for two things, speed radars (for the discipline) and low traffic highway driving (with traffic it becomes too stupid and annoying).

 

[diamond.g]

Just a wild guess but Ford probably decided to work with whoever regulates this and Tesla didn't bother. It's not like FSD works everywhere expect Europe.

I didn't pay the extra (nobody does, it's basically offering money to Tesla) and it's a automatic cruise control with lane keeping. It doesn't change lanes. It's useful for two things, speed radars (for the discipline) and low traffic highway driving (with traffic it becomes too stupid and annoying).

Yeah EU Tesla owners are getting the short end of the stick with respect to features/pricing. Do they still offer EAP there?

 

[JT2002TJ]

School zones/busses, and emergency vehicles are still areas of concern.

I know the vehicle is supposed to move over for emergency services, but I haven't seen it move over for a cop car that has pulled someone over yet. I also say someone on TMC say v13 stopped for a school bus, but I don't believe it, lol. The car still ignores school zone speed limits.

On a version of v12, I have had my TMY slow down and move over (from slow lane to middle lane) on the Long Island Expressway. The visualization said moving over for emergency vehicles (forgot the exact wording), but I remember commenting to my wife about it.

But, yes, School zones/busses and emergency vehicles are areas I will go into full takeover mode if it even in the slightest doesn't hint it understands the situation.

Here are a couple videos of. The first one, I'm not 100% sure if it was because of the stopped accord, but the second link (X) on v13 clearly pulled over for an emergency vehicle.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1870312876495565122

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yeah EU Tesla owners are getting the short end of the stick with respect to features/pricing. Do they still offer EAP there?

Full autopilot is banned in the UK, not sure about the rest of Europe. EAP is available but not to its full capabilities.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

School zones/busses, and emergency vehicles are still areas of concern.

I know the vehicle is supposed to move over for emergency services, but I haven't seen it move over for a cop car that has pulled someone over yet. I also say someone on TMC say v13 stopped for a school bus, but I don't believe it, lol. The car still ignores school zone speed limits.

Overhere the rules are to NOT move over for emergency services, they need to move around you So it would work nicely.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Ah, maybe I am trying to explain this poorly.

Really I am just trying to say that few vehicles in the US will stop for car parked on the highway without that car being seen as a lead car and slowing down in front of you first. Maybe EU traffic patterns don't have this happening.

Yes, that is how most systems work. However if it is parked in your lane it would (should) stop. If it reacted to those parked up but not in your lane it would never move

 

[cyb3rdud3]

*As my parents are getting older (late 80's now) they have reached a level where it takes a lot for them to drive to the store or doctor's offices. These driver's assistance systems are what we need to keep our elder generations mobile. Mass transit is not a solution for everywhere, so we need these systems to fill the void.

I love it, and it scares the living daylights out of me at the same time. Although sometimes I do think that generation is better off with autonomous systems. At our place in the UK it is particularly bad, I know it is a gross generalisation but they seem to be totally unaware of nearly anything and everything, no idea about the speed limits where they are way under or way over. Turning their heads seems to happen rarely. Lane control you can forget about. And even car control is severely lacking, almost like even powersteering is too hard. Scary stuff, please take me off the road if I ever get like that or have fully self driving vehicles.

 

[timber]

Yeah EU Tesla owners are getting the short end of the stick with respect to features/pricing. Do they still offer EAP there?

They offer EAP for 3800 euros which supposedly includes several cool features (lane changing and overtaking, Dumb summon, auto smart summon and auto park). I don't know if this stuff works well and despite knowing a lot of people with Teslas I don't know anyone that got it.

And then for 7500 euros you get the same, traffic lights and stop signs and the promise for FSD (some day).

Several years ago some people did get on with this. I believe interest waned for two reasons. In a S/X these prices are easier to deal with (in a 3 or Y it's 10% or more of the total purchase) and despite most owners deeply appreciating their Teslas (I do) everybody is well taught that Tesla's timelines are quite flexible.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I love it, and it scares the living daylights out of me at the same time. Although sometimes I do think that generation is better off with autonomous systems. At our place in the UK it is particularly bad, I know it is a gross generalisation but they seem to be totally unaware of nearly anything and everything, no idea about the speed limits where they are way under or way over. Turning their heads seems to happen rarely. Lane control you can forget about. And even car control is severely lacking, almost like even powersteering is too hard. Scary stuff, please take me off the road if I ever get like that or have fully self driving vehicles.

We do need this for them. I see it in my parents, and see it when I visit them on FL, old age and driving do not go well together. And obviously I include myself for when I am of that age.

I see a road to full self-driving vehicles, FSDs has convinced me that it is possible. It's just going to take time. It may include more (and different types) sensors, but we have a path that will eventually get us there. It may include pre-mapping roads, but I also like Tesla's approach of teaching the vehicle instead of mapping. Perhaps a combination of both will be what gets us to that 100% mark.

I am generally impressed with progress I have seen in the 2 years I have been using FSDs (formerly FSDb). I use it a lot.

 

[JT2002TJ]

They offer EAP for 3800 euros which supposedly includes several cool features (lane changing and overtaking, Dumb summon, auto smart summon and auto park). I don't know if this stuff works well and despite knowing a lot of people with Teslas I don't know anyone that got it.

And then for 7500 euros you get the same, traffic lights and stop signs and the promise for FSD (some day).

Several years ago some people did get on with this. I believe interest waned for two reasons. In a S/X these prices are easier to deal with (in a 3 or Y it's 10% or more of the total purchase) and despite most owners deeply appreciating their Teslas (I do) everybody is well taught that Tesla's timelines are quite flexible.

I'm not sure if the FSDs/EAP software is the same worldwide. If it is, lane changing, overtaking, both summons and auto park work really well now. I use Actual Smart Summons daily. Last year's auto park (early v12 and before) was very slow and felt unsure. Late v12+ does a really good job. I have heard that parallel parking maybe it's biggest opportunity.

If you do a lot of highway driving EAP may be worth it. Lane changing is a very useful feature.

It is a lot of money to pay for FSDb if you do not get access to city streets. I wouldn't pay for it.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

We do need this for them. I see it in my parents, and see it when I visit them on FL, old age and driving do not go well together. And obviously I include myself for when I am of that age.

I see a road to full self-driving vehicles, FSDs has convinced me that it is possible. It's just going to take time. It may include more (and different types) sensors, but we have a path that will eventually get us there. It may include pre-mapping roads, but I also like Tesla's approach of teaching the vehicle instead of mapping. Perhaps a combination of both will be what gets us to that 100% mark.

I am generally impressed with progress I have seen in the 2 years I have been using FSDs (formerly FSDb). I use it a lot.

In a perverse manner, the more autonomous vehicles there are, the better they become. Us humans are the ones making it hard by not sticking to rules and are in my opinion more to blame. Having your own private chauffeur is great, yet not affordable for most people. I can't wait, and am happy to fulfil my personal driving needs on a track, etc.

 

[JT2002TJ]

In a perverse manner, the more autonomous vehicles there are, the better they become. Us humans are the ones making it hard by not sticking to rules and are in my opinion more to blame. Having your own private chauffeur is great, yet not affordable for most people. I can't wait, and am happy to fulfil my personal driving needs on a track, etc.

I see it eventually going down the route that if you intend to drive yourself (take it off of autonomous driving) you will have to explain why in the event of an accident. Eventually it will be, you would need a special type of insurance in order to drive yourself.

It is true, the hardest obstacle to overcome the Autonomous driving problem is going to be the other humans. Be it other drivers, emergency personnel, or pedestrians. There is no set of "if thens" that can fully predict human behavior. Right now, I 100% trust my FSDs anywhere where there are no humans . But since I live in NY, that never happens.