Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[BigMcGuire]

We went to the Tesla Supercharger today - 144+ miles an hour. Was a blast - within 20 mins we charged more miles than what we could do at our house with 16amps.

The breaker for my garage says it's 20amps but I notice the wall outlet gets pretty hot when doing 16amps so I turned it down to 15amps (5 miles/hr). We can do 60+ miles from 6:30pm - 6am from our outlet. We drive 104 miles every 2 days so should be good with outlet at home alone - not even counting free charging at university!

 

[nrvna76]

I went to Tesla.com and looked for local electricians and one of the first ones on the list was Trout Electric. I tried to do a remote quote but they said they had to do a physical install (free). https://troutelectricusa.com - They'll be here Thursday. I'm hoping they do a Tesla charger but whatever works.

You get to tell them what you want. The Tesla charger will be more expensive. The charger itself is $550 + tax (unless they charge more as a reseller), depending on how close it is to your panel it’s probably a minimum of $500 for install. The Nema 14-50 is probably a total of $500 or so.

 

[quagmire]

We went to the Tesla Supercharger today - 144+ miles an hour. Was a blast - within 20 mins we charged more miles than what we could do at our house with 16amps.

The breaker for my garage says it's 20amps but I notice the wall outlet gets pretty hot when doing 16amps so I turned it down to 15amps (5 miles/hr). We can do 60+ miles from 6:30pm - 6am from our outlet. We drive 104 miles every 2 days so should be good with outlet at home alone - not even counting free charging at university!

The breaker may be 20A, but the outlet may be designed for 15A. I would turn it down to 12A to ensure an 80% load on the outlet.

 

[BigMcGuire]

You get to tell them what you want. The Tesla charger will be more expensive. The charger itself is $550 + tax (unless they charge more as a reseller), depending on how close it is to your panel it’s probably a minimum of $500 for install. The Nema 14-50 is probably a total of $500 or so.

Thanks for the info - this is all new to me - thank you --- the Panel is up the stairs around the corner. So I imagine it's gunna be $$$$.

 

[nrvna76]

Thanks for the info - this is all new to me - thank you --- the Panel is up the stairs around the corner. So I imagine it's gunna be $$$$.

Yea, they’ll probably charge by the foot.. but you can get the wall connector straight from Tesla so it’s not worth a huge markup if they happen to have them I stock. If you go with the 14-50 you’ll need to buy the adapter for the mobile charger as well (unless the car came with it). The Nema charges at 32A with a 50a breaker (~30 mph) and the wall connector is 42A with a 60a breaker (~44mph). Good luck with the install!

 

[BigMcGuire]

The breaker may be 20A, but the outlet may be designed for 15A. I would turn it down to 12A to ensure an 80% load on the outlet.

Ouch! Thanks for the info - will do. It's definitely a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit then. No wonder why it was getting warm with 16. (I was able to do 16amps for several hours (wow)). I ended up turning it down to 15 overnight due to the warm feeling (ran this all night long). Will only do 12 going forward! Thanks. (We didn't charge last night at home because we went to the Tesla supercharger earlier in the day (just to see what it was like)) - 100+ miles for $4.

 

[BigMcGuire]

My wife plugged into university this morning (free) and with the 3rd party cable (16 amps) - we're only pulling 6mi/hr vs the 12 amp Tesla cable over the weekend which got 5 mi/hr. Kind of expected 7-8mi/hr with 16 amps vs 12 amps - oh well. <shrug>. But hey, we'll take it. She's there all day and so far she's added +27mi and will be there for quite awhile longer.

Starting to wonder if the university outlet is only a 15amp outlet....... (It's a heavy duty metal box - for each stall).

Edit: (Car at University now)
Currently at 16 amps - 6 mi/hr.
Switching to 15 amps - keeps 6 mi/hr.
Switching to 14 amps - changes to 5 mi/hr.
Switching to 13 amps - keeps 5 mi/hr.
Switching to 12 amps - keeps 5 mi/hr.
Switching to 11 amps - changes to 4 mi/hr.

What would y'all do? Seems like each amp adds 30-45 mins of charging time to the total time.

College outlets are 20 amps.

 

[quagmire]

Ouch! Thanks for the info - will do. It's definitely a 15 amp outlet then. No wonder why it was getting warm with 16. (I was able to do 16amps for several hours (wow)). I ended up turning it down to 15 overnight due to the warm feeling (ran this all night long). Will only do 12 going forward! Thanks. (We didn't charge last night at home because we went to the Tesla supercharger earlier in the day (just to see what it was like)) - 100+ miles for $4.

Yeah definitely sucky for the builders/electrician to put in an 20A breaker, but go cheap and only do an outlet only meant for 15A. Granted they probably never anticipated EV's/plug in hybrids and made the "safe" bet that if you did plug in a device wanting 18A, you wouldn't use it continuously where it could cause a fire.

 

[senseless]

My condo association is debating whether or not to install outdoor chargers in select spaces, that can only be used by the residents. The indoor ground floor parking level would be ideal, but some are expressing charging safety concerns. And then there's the available power limitation. This is more complicated than I thought.

 

[AdamNC]

My neighbor just learned the hard way how until the infrastructure can and installation can be perfected you can lose a whole ton of money. He had a contractor last summer install a huge solar system from Tesla. 20 panels, two battery packs, ect. Well mistake one. He thought he would not move for 10-15 years. He got a job transfer. Second the roof on the home was 10 years old. Third the contractor who is Tesla did not suggest a new roof. Well it has had several problems and it’s been now rejected by 3 home inspection companies. The conduit is not code, we live in a hurricane area. The install is not up to code. Long story short it’s a he said she said deal. He is having to pay to have the whole system removed, entire new roof, siding, redoing his electric panels and has to pay for it. 50k. Cost him 68k. I don’t know the whole story but I know he had a lawyer look into it and he is basically screwed. He didn’t read the fine print but the fine print allows for Tesla to get away with it. So read the fine print and make sure any installs or anything will not screw you over.

 

[Apple fanboy]

My neighbor just learned the hard way how until the infrastructure can and installation can be perfected you can lose a whole ton of money. He had a contractor last summer install a huge solar system from Tesla. 20 panels, two battery packs, ect. Well mistake one. He thought he would not move for 10-15 years. He got a job transfer. Second the roof on the home was 10 years old. Third the contractor who is Tesla did not suggest a new roof. Well it has had several problems and it’s been now rejected by 3 home inspection companies. The conduit is not code, we live in a hurricane area. The install is not up to code. Long story short it’s a he said she said deal. He is having to pay to have the whole system removed, entire new roof, siding, redoing his electric panels and has to pay for it. 50k. Cost him 68k. I don’t know the whole story but I know he had a lawyer look into it and he is basically screwed. He didn’t read the fine print but the fine print allows for Tesla to get away with it. So read the fine print and make sure any installs or anything will not screw you over.

Thing is would you let someone do work like that on your house without getting the proper surveys done etc? Or without reading the small print? Sounds like an expensive lesson learned.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I had Solar City (before Tesla bought them) panels installed for a 20 year solar lease. They told me my roof was good for the life of the panels, well, that wasn't true. The only reason I went ahead and did it, was in the contract it was a $500 fee for panel removal and reinstall. I was comfortable eating the $500, since I would save that by year 2 in electricity costs. This was back in the early '2010s when there were HUGE government incentives (almost $20k that was signed over to the solar leasing company, but would have been mine if I purchased).

Well, the day came when I needed to replace my roof. I reached out to the now panel company, Tesla, and they said it would be $8k to remove the panels and reinstall them around the roof replacement. I said, nope, I remember it being $500 as per my contract. Then said no, show us proof. I found it in my contract, showed it to Tesla customer service, and they had to honor it.

Three things one should learn about this:

1) Solar companies want to install the panels on your house, get an independent roofer to give you an estimate of the life of your roof
2) Make sure you are aware of the removal and reinstall fee if you need to do any roofing work. They can be VERY high. If it is above where you are comfortable, skip it
3) Make sure you keep a copy of your contract, your solar company can be bought out, policies can change, and they will do whatever they can to not eat any cost they can...

I post this in a electric car thread, because the same people who would be willing to buy an electric car, are the same people who would lease/buy solar panels.

To add to what was posted above, since this was a lease, it is on the solar company to make sure it is compliant and turned on. If they don't generate the guaranteed amount each year, they have to pay me. So it is on them to ensure the amount, regardless of weather... When you buy the panels, you do save more in the long run, but it is all on you to ensure you are compliant. If you tie into the grid (meter that will decrease when you provide excess), the utility company can change their policy, and require you to make expensive changes to your system. If you own, it is on you (it may not happen, but just be aware).

 

[cr2]

Ouch! Thanks for the info - will do. It's definitely a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit then. No wonder why it was getting warm with 16. (I was able to do 16amps for several hours (wow)). I ended up turning it down to 15 overnight due to the warm feeling (ran this all night long). Will only do 12 going forward! Thanks. (We didn't charge last night at home because we went to the Tesla supercharger earlier in the day (just to see what it was like)) - 100+ miles for $4.

Can you change the outlet to 20amp provided the breaker and the electrical connection supports the upgrade?

 

[BigMcGuire]

Can you change the outlet to 20amp provided the breaker and the electrical connection supports the upgrade?

Got an electrician coming tomorrow to inspect the garage. Will definitely ask them that question. I'm hoping they'll be able to install an EV charger for under $1500 too.

Till then, charging at the university and at home has been allowing us to keep our Tesla topped off (90%).

 

[cr2]

Got an electrician coming tomorrow to inspect the garage. Will definitely ask them that question. I'm hoping they'll be able to install an EV charger for under $1500 too.

Till then, charging at the university and at home has been allowing us to keep our Tesla topped off (90%).

You will love the Tesla charger. It just works. I think you can get a federal rebate. I will know when I file my taxes this year.

 

[nrvna76]

You will love the Tesla charger. It just works. I think you can get a federal rebate. I will know when I file my taxes this year.

You can. Form 8911.

Expired Dec 31, 2021 though. I don’t think there is one anymore.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Can you change the outlet to 20amp provided the breaker and the electrical connection supports the upgrade?

Keep in mind that the outlets at home are connected in parallel to the 20-amp circuit breaker. So lest say that you have 4 outlets in your living room all the components connected to the four outlets typically don't draw enough power to trip the 20-amp circuit breaker. In this case it doesn't mater if you have 15-amp or 20-amp outlets in your living room, since what trips the outlets it the sum or total amperage being drawn by all the components. But components such as refrigerators, countertop ovens that "do all" (bake/toast/air-fry, etc.), microwave ovens, or just a simple toaster can trip a 20-amp outlet if all of these components are energized (turned on) at the same time. In this case it is very possible for the total amperage drawn to exceed the safety limit of the entire circuit. The refrigerator should have its own circuit breaker so it is not shared with the other components in your kitchen, and it doesn't mater if the refrigerator outlet is a 15 or 20-amp one.

The circuit breaker is a safety device that is used to "open" the circuit before the wiring and outlets get too hot, which in turn can cause a fire. Replacing a 15-amp outlet with a 20-amp one should not make a difference. If the 15-amp outlet is getting warm to the touch, it means that the outlet is defective or the wiring connected to it are also getting warm. Loose connections at the outlet could also create heat.

Look at the charger's ratings. If it requires a 20-amp circuit, you may want to have an individual 20-amp circuit, one that is not shared with other chargers or components, much like the one for the clothes washer, or the refrigerator.

A 20-amp circuit breaker would support somewhere around 2,400 watts on a single circuit. The safe (before it trips) is approximately 1,920 watts. But the circuit should never be loaded past 80% of the circuit breaker's capacity.

How To Buy And Install The Right EV Charger

Looking for an EV charger for an EV or plug-in? Here’s how to decide on a smart vs. dumb charger, how long of a cable, and how power: 32 amps, 40 amps or more.

www.forbes.com

Look at the charger's ratings. The placard should indicate the what type of circuit it requires. Also, you have to know which chargers you can use for charging your EV's batteries, the instruction would be in the owner's manual. And I repeat, know which charger's level should be used to charge your EV.
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[AlaskaMoose]

This might be a stupid question, but why can't the traction battery also be used to turn on the controls, lights, and accessories? Why does an EV need this additional lead-acid battery?

The 12-volt battery of an EV is charged at the same time the traction battery is charged. However, if driving the EV the 12-volt battery draws power from the traction battery in order to maintain its charge. The bottomline: everything on the EV depends on the state of charge of the traction battery.

Why do electric vehicles have a 12V battery? – All EV Info

allev.info

On an ICE vehicle, the 12-volt battery can be used in a similar way as the EV's 12-volt battery (to power the lights and other accessories, etc) for a certain amount of time. But as soon as the engine starts, the alternator provides all the power needed, including the charging current for the battery to maintain its charge. The bottomline: everything on the ICE vehicle depends on the fuel in the tank.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Keep in mind that the outlets at home are connected in parallel to the 20-amp circuit breaker. So lest say that you have 4 outlets in your living room all the components connected to the four outlets typically don't draw enough power to trip the 20-amp circuit breaker. In this case it doesn't mater if you have 15-amp or 20-amp outlets in your living room, since what trips the outlets it the sum or total amperage being drawn by all the components. But components such as refrigerators, countertop ovens that "do all" (bake/toast/air-fry, etc.), microwave ovens, or just a simple toaster can trip a 20-amp outlet if all of these components are energized (turned on) at the same time. In this case it is very possible for the total amperage drawn to exceed the safety limit of the entire circuit. The refrigerator should have its own circuit breaker so it is not shared with the other components in your kitchen, and it doesn't mater if the refrigerator outlet is a 15 or 20-amp one.

The circuit breaker is a safety device that is used to "open" the circuit before the wiring and outlets get too hot, which in turn can cause a fire. Replacing a 15-amp outlet with a 20-amp one should not make a difference. If the 15-amp outlet is getting warm to the touch, it means that the outlet is defective or the wiring connected to it are also getting warm. Loose connections at the outlet could also create heat.

Look at the charger's ratings. If it requires a 20-amp circuit, you may want to have an individual 20-amp circuit, one that is not shared with other chargers or components, much like the one for the clothes washer, or the refrigerator.

A 20-amp circuit breaker would support somewhere around 2,400 watts on a single circuit. The safe (before it trips) is approximately 1,920 watts. But the circuit should never be loaded past 80% of the circuit breaker's capacity.

How To Buy And Install The Right EV Charger

Looking for an EV charger for an EV or plug-in? Here’s how to decide on a smart vs. dumb charger, how long of a cable, and how power: 32 amps, 40 amps or more.

www.forbes.com

Look at the charger's ratings. The placard should indicate the what type of circuit it requires. Also, you have to know which chargers you can use for charging your EV's batteries, the instruction would be in the owner's manual. And I repeat, know which charger's level should be used to charge your EV.
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I am not very electricity smart. I knew that the garage was on a 20 amp breaker but I figured all the stuff in the garage shared that 20 amps. We have a gas instant hot water heater, a super tiny garage door opener, and one outlet. So when the Tesla cable was only pulling a max of 12 amps, I figured, I'd spend $200 on a cable touting 16 amps thinking that'd be fine for the 20 amp breaker.

What I didn't understand at the time (till a helpful person posted above) is that the outlet itself was only designed for 15 amps. So when I was drawing 16 amps, it got warm (not hot) so I lowered it to 15 and left it charging overnight. Now, I see why Tesla's cable limits to 12.

The university's outlets are 20 amp outlets (the -| | design), so I feel much better about using the 16 amp cable (6 mi/hr) with that (vs Tesla's included cable that only does 12 amps (5 mi/hr)) - was just hoping it would be more like 7-8mi/hr. lol.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

In this case, no there aren't any "production" EVs that can go 1000 miles on a charge. One with that kind of range likely won't exist for the next 3-4 years.

I also shudder to think of the size of such a battery (probably going to have to be ~150kWh) in respects to charging it at home on a 11 kW connection (because a regular wall plug would be useless for such a big battery). But I guess it would be fine if you are willing to pay double to triple the price at a DC fast charger to charge (and time spent waiting on it to charge).

I don't think that an EV that has a driving range if 1,000 miles will ever exist. The problem is that electricity is not very dense, so in order to pack enough power in the battery to extend the range more cells have to be added, which in turn increases the battery's weight, and bulk. As it is now, a small traction battery for a compact EV weights around 800 pounds, while the one for larger EV weights from 1,000 to 1,800+ pounds.

Just think about this: 13.5 gallons of gasoline can move a Toyota Corolla nearly 500 road miles on ideal road conditions. 1 gallon of gasoline weights a little over 6 pounds.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I am not very electricity smart. I knew that the garage was on a 20 amp breaker but I figured all the stuff in the garage shared that 20 amps. We have a gas instant hot water heater, a super tiny garage door opener, and one outlet. So when the Tesla cable was only pulling a max of 12 amps, I figured, I'd spend $200 on a cable touting 16 amps thinking that'd be fine for the 20 amp breaker.

What I didn't understand at the time (till a helpful person posted above) is that the outlet itself was only designed for 15 amps. So when I was drawing 16 amps, it got warm (not hot) so I lowered it to 15 and left it charging overnight. Now, I see why Tesla's cable limits to 12.

The university's outlets are 20 amp outlets (the -| | design), so I feel much better about using the 16 amp cable (6 mi/hr) with that (vs Tesla's included cable that only does 12 amps (5 mi/hr)) - was just hoping it would be more like 7-8mi/hr. lol.

Yes, all the outlets in the garage are shared (all depend on the 20-amp circuit breaker). However, drawing a continuous 16 amps, you are already near the tripping point of the circuit breaker. If the charger is drawing 12 amps, it is ok

 

[BigMcGuire]

Yes, all the outlets in the garage are shared (all depend on the 20-amp circuit breaker). However, drawing a continuous 16 amps, you are already near the tripping point of the circuit breaker. You can have the electrical leads checked by an electrician.

Agreed - after doing some reading and receiving very helpful advice here - after that initial night, I've limited it to 12amps at home (charging at 12amps now).

 

[ian87w]

Won't bother with EV anytime soon (despite me liking their properties and less air polluting).
Practically no infrastructure in my country, other than select spots for demo purposes, and that's in the capital city. Outside the capital, zero.
But we do have some rich snobs having a Tesla. Probably just for show and they don't even know how to plug in the charger. In my country, most people doesn't even know how to fill up their own cars' gas tanks as we have employees doing it for us in the gas stations. And the rich people have drivers, so they don't even know how to take care/maintain their own cars as they rely on the drivers doing it.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Just bought our fourth plug-in vehicle. Replaced our 2015 BMW i3 REx with a 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E.

We had been wanting something with a bit more range than the i3 (2014-2016 models got 80 miles of range, the Range Extended version like we had adds another 60-80 on a small gasoline engine with a tiny tank.) We had been looking at 2019 i3 battery-only with 150 miles of range, and the newer ones also have 4G so their internet access still works, Apple CarPlay, and an available sun roof. We finally found a lease return 2019 at the local BMW dealer that had the options we were interested in. Went in, and... The sun roof is a *HUGE* disappointment in the i3. To the point of being essentially worthless to my wife (the one who is more interested in a sun roof.) And they were asking $36,000.

We looked, and a base-spec Mach-E has better performance, FAR more space, 210 miles of range, and after tax credit, cost $34,000.

So... A three-year-old car that - while fun to drive and great for in-city parking - has less capability; or a brand new car.

We decided we wanted to test drive one before making the choice, knowing the Mach-E has a multi-month wait if you order now. Called multiple dealers, searched dealer websites, found one that listed as having one in inventory - I assumed it was one they kept for test drives. Called that one and they said they didn't have any in stock, but the owner would bring hers in for test drives if we wanted. Sure. Scheduled it for the following evening.

Got there, and the sales person said "actually, we do have one in stock - it was a customer order that the customer declined delivery of, we're just getting it ready for sale now. You can test drive it."

Test drove it. While it isn't *quite* as engaging a drive as the BMW i3, it's still plenty good. Got back from the drive, sales guy let us know it was available if we wanted it. We said we'd take it. A woman sitting at a nearby table looked very disappointed. While signing the paperwork, the sales manager let us know that the woman was the sales guy's wife. He was going to buy it. But outside sales take precedence. (They bought an Escape Plug-in hybrid instead - she drove off in it as we were driving away in the Mach-E.)

Traded in the i3. We could have made more selling it private-party, but the offer was high enough (higher than the BMW dealership's offer!) to make it not worth our time to sell privately.

 

[DaveN]

I'm considering it but my two vehicles just keep on going. I have a 1998 car and a 2000 truck. I always joke that my vehicles are old enough to drink and drive!