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Why is Big Sur so ugly?
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-----Yeah, it's too much like iOS. I'd be more OK with this if there was a design compromise here: sheets could still dim the parent window and float within them like they do now, but they should still give at least a bit of a nod to the old behavior and slide out from under the top edge of said parent window and stay aligned with that even if they aren't attached to it when the 'show sheet' animation finishes.
Yup. I don't want my 32" XDR to resemble an iPad... I want to be a Mac.
Yes, the new sheet and dialog UI is appalling. What an awful experience all around.
Especially the narrow windows and stacked buttons. Is there anyone older than 25 or has used a Mac prior to 2010 at Apple anymore?
Yea, well my initial comment was about its aesthetics. You turned it about "real world" use. I think you're starting so many arguments in the one thread, you're struggling to keep up with the conversations.
not sure what your point is (or how it's on topic), but am not struggling with anything, just... expressing my opinions, like everyone else).
Every post in this thread I have made is on topic. As proven time and time again by your posts, and the people agreeing with my posts, you are toxic and I hope you rectify your behaviour before you get suspended. All the best
like this post? and the one before it? meanwhile, i have been here since 2010 (i see you've been here since 2011), and post about 6 times as much as you do, and.. stand by what i'm saying. anyway, will drop it; there's more interesting things to read in this thread (more interesting than both of our recent posts).
back on topic: is big sur so ugly? have gotten used to it, and it feels like my mac, in the moment, and working well.
Certainly better looking than frosted glass, neon icons, and rainbow bubbles (does anyone else think that Game Center was worse in iOS 7? At least the poker table conveyed gaming, how does Rainbow Bubbles convey that? anyone? Bueller?)
My point is that everyone got tired of skeuo after 6 years of it (it actually started in Windows 98 if you used a high color-capable video card. Then in WinXP in 2001) so why isn't everyone sick of flat yet? It's literally boring to me. It's hard to look at, and our eyes prefer depth and our world is a 3-dimensional one. Wouldn't Skeuo make AR more possible? How about holographic UI design? Oh well, what might have been and all that.
I've recently started amassing older Samsung tablets and smartphones and I really adore Nature UX which was what Samsung was doing in 2012 and until late 2014. It fits me perfectly given it's an amalgamation of both skeuo and nature, two things I adore. No leather textures or such either, just buttons that look like buttons, proper borders, paper textures in notes and e-books, browser tabs that look like actual tabs, and music controls with proper buttons. That and the added whimsy of nature sound effects which might have annoyed everyone else but perhaps I was the target demographic at the time? Don't need dark mode or night shift since my eyes can't be hurt by a UI that's earth-toned and dark in many places!
Dark mode and night shift are admissions of a problem with the UI, but instead of fixing it, which means admitting that iOS 7 (and in contrast, Android 5.0 Lollipop+) was a mistake so they treat the symptom instead of the actual problem
If you're into betas, you can have it now!
I do like the dynamic wallpaper, the fact auto dark mode finally works, the chime, and a few of the skeuo design changes. Looking hopeful for a skeuo revival in the next version. Still miss big cat names.
I do like the dynamic wallpaper, the fact auto dark mode finally works, the chime, and a few of the skeuo design changes. Looking hopeful for a skeuo revival in the next version. Still miss big cat names.
-----Personally, I've grown somewhat fond of having at least some transparency in window chrome as long as it doesn't get in the way of reading any text there. (I'd keep enough of a tint of the classic OS X gradient gray in there somewhat, though.) macOS prior to Big Sur and Windows 7 struck a good balance here, in my opinion. Additionally, I usually have to invert my display colors to see what I'm doing, but that's because of my vision. Otherwise, I pretty much agree with most/all of your points, nickdalzell1.
I really miss Windows 7. If it didn't rely on activation I'd just use it in Bootcamp or something. It was less skeuo than Vista, but it kept the relevant cues. I do have one system running on it, but hardly use it. My other is Windows 10 themed to resemble 7 via older apps, and ClassicMenu.
MacOS after Mavericks really took a hard turn towards flatness and Big Sur seems to be attempting to move us out of it, unless the flat-lovers stop it before it starts. I just hope the beta feedback is not mostly them complaining about what little skeuo it's got, to see it completely removed in the final version.
Quite disappointed that iOS 14 wasn't even giving the tiny skeuo bits that Macs got. It's just another rehash of iOS 7 with widgets. Tired of it. Sick, and tired of flat design. They say the pendulum swings every few years, but I'm still waiting for skeuo to return.
MacOS after Mavericks really took a hard turn towards flatness and Big Sur seems to be attempting to move us out of it, unless the flat-lovers stop it before it starts. I just hope the beta feedback is not mostly them complaining about what little skeuo it's got, to see it completely removed in the final version.
Quite disappointed that iOS 14 wasn't even giving the tiny skeuo bits that Macs got. It's just another rehash of iOS 7 with widgets. Tired of it. Sick, and tired of flat design. They say the pendulum swings every few years, but I'm still waiting for skeuo to return.
In earlier Beta's I was a bit shocked by the toy-ishness and big buttons, but I'm running Beta 9 now and I think it looks quite good overall. 
Yes, the interface still has a ''playful'' feel to it, but actually it's very minimalistic and functional, and the powdered glass look makes it feel homogenous.
(Now that I think about it, the ''powered glass'' look actually originates from iOS7. Interesting that MacOS has now finally ''catched up'')
The rendering of Fonts is a different story though..
I only use retina screens at 2 x Full HiDPI mode but to my eyes they look like they're rendered at a different resolution and then up or downscaled. Almost feels like I'm viewing a non-retina monitor.
Considering Font rendering on MacOS has been on a downward trend since Mojave I don't think Apple will do a lot about this..
Yes, the interface still has a ''playful'' feel to it, but actually it's very minimalistic and functional, and the powdered glass look makes it feel homogenous.
(Now that I think about it, the ''powered glass'' look actually originates from iOS7. Interesting that MacOS has now finally ''catched up'')
The rendering of Fonts is a different story though..
I only use retina screens at 2 x Full HiDPI mode but to my eyes they look like they're rendered at a different resolution and then up or downscaled. Almost feels like I'm viewing a non-retina monitor.
Considering Font rendering on MacOS has been on a downward trend since Mojave I don't think Apple will do a lot about this..
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Are you saying it's gotten flatter?! I sure hope not. I hated iOS 7. As for the term 'homogenous' that always gets translated to my mind as 'homogenization' aka everything looking the same. Not a fan of every UI out there looking alike. I'm only on Beta 4 at this time and perhaps I'll stay there until skeuo returns completely.
To you, perhaps. But why is that even relevant? Should not the device fit the user who owns it?
I was going to leave a snarky comment, but then I realized what's the point. Also, you thought iOS7 was bad and I happen to agree lol anyways ...
I do honestly think very few people really have the sense of taste required to produce user interface designs that are universally considered good. As well, it tends to morph over time but I think a lot of that does have to do with the average quality and resolution of users screens.
I do in general like that Apple is moving to design icons with a bit more depth, but to me it's a very weird mix of super flat UI, mixed with icons having depth. Two different design languages in one operating system is a bit "off".
The window buttons are all flat, but the icons have more depth than we've seen for a very long time. I really think the Catalina UI could've been updated with updated icons, some menu and menu icon alignment improvements, a handful of app updates and short of that ... it really needed an overhaul from the performance and stability standpoint.
I get the more rounded corners on everything, but I think too much makes the icons look a bit silly. Probably could've been somewhere between the Catalina radius, and the BigSur radius.
I do honestly think very few people really have the sense of taste required to produce user interface designs that are universally considered good. As well, it tends to morph over time but I think a lot of that does have to do with the average quality and resolution of users screens.
I do in general like that Apple is moving to design icons with a bit more depth, but to me it's a very weird mix of super flat UI, mixed with icons having depth. Two different design languages in one operating system is a bit "off".
The window buttons are all flat, but the icons have more depth than we've seen for a very long time. I really think the Catalina UI could've been updated with updated icons, some menu and menu icon alignment improvements, a handful of app updates and short of that ... it really needed an overhaul from the performance and stability standpoint.
I get the more rounded corners on everything, but I think too much makes the icons look a bit silly. Probably could've been somewhere between the Catalina radius, and the BigSur radius.
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In earlier Beta's I was a bit shocked by the toy-ishness and big buttons, but I'm running Beta 9 now and I think it looks quite good overall.
Yes, the interface still has a ''playful'' feel to it, but actually it's very minimalistic and functional, and the powdered glass look makes it feel homogenous.
I haven't used Big Sur since the initial developer preview, would you mind sharing some more details about what has changed? (Or, is there another place I could read about it?)
As someone who was happy with 100% scaling in Windows on a 1920x1080 13.1" display, I really wish there was a way to shrink the UI elements without brutally crippling performance. Everything is so frikkin big and wasteful in modern versions of MacOS, I swear it's made for blind people.
As someone who has aged, I think I know the answer. Apple's executives have all aged too and need bigger to see it! 😜 Seriously though, Retina screens have contributed in my view, often I find the default size just too big, so then scale my display to something smaller.
i always scale my macs for more space (logic & FCPX on my 21" imac = 👍 ). so, lol, am horrified when i look at the default scaling (even more terrifying on a 12" macbook than the imac)....
Glad that someone gets it. And regarding the performance I agree too. What Apple should've done is to make iOS closer to MacOS (in terms of design) not the other way around. Big Sur is another unnecessary step backwards in terms of design which doesn't bring anything new or exciting.
I don't agree. iOS has a much larger user base than macOS and with all the technologies they have learnt from iOS, the future of macOS is to incorporate much of what they have learnt. The ability to run apps on all platforms, with little effort from developers will expand the app volume availability on macOS.