Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,251
5,560
ny somewhere
Not just the dock but the entirety of the "3-D" UI. If I wanted to look at a flat surface I'd spend my days looking at my kitchen counter.
put some plates, cups, and an iphone-on-a-stand on your kitchen counter, and it will then look just like that 3-D dock... and you can then enjoy the more-modern experience of your mac. 👍
 

anch-innk

macrumors newbie
Sep 27, 2020
9
3
German/Dutch border
This! I couldn't have said it better, thank you. People whine and bitch about he most insignificant interface changes such as new icons, relocated buttons, etc. As we speak there's a major ********* happening among Windows users caused by, you guessed it, a new Edge icon....

Three things to keep in mind:
1) beauty lies in the eye of the beholder
2) dissatisfied users are roughly a gazillion times more vocal than satisfied ones
3) everything you read on the internet has to be taken with a grain of salt

I, for one, welcome the change. It's fresh, it's new, and people will get used to it and consider it the greatest thing since sliced bread eventually anyway. Just wait for the next UI overhaul.
Hi everyone!
I started using iMacs about 6 years ago (after using Windows OS for twenty or so years). The one thing that seriously annoys me about MacOS is the fact that it is virtually impossible to adjust any of the colours - menu bars in focus, not in focus etc. Approx. 8-10% of men have a serious colour-differentiation problem (called by the other 92% colour blindness) and this means that EVERYTHING on the Mac desktop looks about the same - grey grey grey in grey. If it were possible to make window edges, menu bars etc. some (optional) hideous orange, blue, red it would make life - and using the Mac - much, much easier. I'm sure if someone at Apple were to do Ishihara tests (the ones with all the "random" coloured dots that actually form a shape) in their offices, they would be surprised how many men have the problem. I can't, however, really imagine Apple making such a change because they actually believe that their terribly dull, boring GUI is "chic". Very sad. So, _mj, you're absolutely right that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but some "beholders" are completely ignored by programmers and the 92% are blissfully unaware what the other 8% see (or don't see) when they go in the garden....
 

w5jck

Suspended
Nov 9, 2013
1,516
1,934
And Windows 8 was heavily criticised. Actually come to think of it, it really was bad 😉.

(Sorry couldn’t help myself)
LOL, but entirely true. Win 8 blew chunks for sure. It looked terrible and operated even worse. It was so bad that MS cancelled Win 9 and put their resources to work on Win 10. MS still sucks though. Everytime I turn on my Lenovo Win 10 laptop, it takes 30 minutes because it forces another update. I only use it maybe once a month, so the constant updates are a PITA, especially since they are forced on us. At least Apple gives us the choice to update or not.
 

RandomDSdevel

macrumors regular
Jul 23, 2009
153
76
Kokomo, IN
It was so bad that MS cancelled Win 9 and put their resources to work on Win 10.
-----I thought the reason version 9 got 'skipped' was to prevent old software from running into OS version-detection issues where they'd confuse it with Windows 95 or 98, so, technically, Microsoft didn't skip a version; they just couldn't use anything resembling semantic versioning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ASentientBot

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
You can block Windows updates quite easily--two methods:

1. go to your router config page, under 'advanced' and then 'security' then 'block sites' and put this domain name in "windowsupdate.microsoft.com". Windows will place a notification icon suggesting to 'fix' Windows Update (which it claims 'has problems') but won't update any more.

2. Take ownership of C:\Windows\System32, remove all permissions except administrators, and then delete these files:

musnotifyicon.exe (the update is ready icon)

tskschd.exe (task scheduler, which Windows Update uses to force-reboot your PC)--be quick, it tends to respawn quite as easily as it's killed in task manager, so you need quick fingers!

and disable these services in Services.msc:

Windows Update

Update Orchestrator

That's pretty much it. Never had Windows 10 force-update since unless I actually choose to, in which case I use the Windows Update Assistant, which can 'undo' updates if you hate the changes.

Likewise on iPhone, iOS devices and Macs, block "mesu.apple.com" and "softwareupdate.apple.com" as well as "appldnld.apple.com" and you'll never be bugged about another update again. It only checks for updates via wifi, not mobile data, so turning off your wifi forever (assuming you're on an unlimited data plan) also works.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
-----I thought the reason version 9 got 'skipped' was to prevent old software from running into OS version-detection issues where they'd confuse it with Windows 95 or 98, so, technically, Microsoft didn't skip a version; they just couldn't use anything resembling semantic versioning.
Don't you know? they skipped because "seven eight (ate) nine"

Yes, Business Insider reports that Belfiore (who is Corporate VP of Operating Systems at Microsoft) was snapped wearing the special T-shirt at the Build conference last week, with the garment bearing a binary-coded message that enterprising developer Kevin Gosse deciphered by scrutinising the photo.

So what did it say? Well, there were four sentences in binary in each quadrant of the Windows logo on the shirt, one of which ‘explained’ the fate of Windows 9.

It read: “Windows 10, because 7 8 9.”

 
  • Haha
Reactions: RandomDSdevel

organic bond

Cancelled
May 5, 2007
226
192
LOL, but entirely true. Win 8 blew chunks for sure. It looked terrible and operated even worse. It was so bad that MS cancelled Win 9 and put their resources to work on Win 10. MS still sucks though. Everytime I turn on my Lenovo Win 10 laptop, it takes 30 minutes because it forces another update. I only use it maybe once a month, so the constant updates are a PITA, especially since they are forced on us. At least Apple gives us the choice to update or not.
This is absolutely not true. I use Windwos 10 almost everyday and I don't have to update it if I don't want to. I don't like W10, and I think Big Sur is ugly for that matter, still on Mojave and will stay with it as long as I can. But what you wrote is false, as simple as that. And why I don't like BS is not because it's flat, but because I don't like the iOS icons, I don't like all the rounded stuff, I don't like the dock, I don't like its "cute" style. Bad job Apple! MS Flight Simulator forces you to update, and the last one is only 82 GB, but that's another story.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
Flight Simulator 2020 updates can be disabled by disabling your internet connection before you open it. Believe it or not, you don't need internet access to play it. In fact, it can lag heavily in areas with a lot of 'live traffic' if you're online.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RandomDSdevel

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,251
5,560
ny somewhere
This is absolutely not true. I use Windwos 10 almost everyday and I don't have to update it if I don't want to. I don't like W10, and I think Big Sur is ugly for that matter, still on Mojave and will stay with it as long as I can. But what you wrote is false, as simple as that. And why I don't like BS is not because it's flat, but because I don't like the iOS icons, I don't like all the rounded stuff, I don't like the dock, I don't like its "cute" style. Bad job Apple! MS Flight Simulator forces you to update, and the last one is only 82 GB, but that's another story.
i don't understand ppl who'd reject an operating system because of 'rounded stuff', or the icon design, etc. that's like saying you'd buy a mediocre car over a better one... because the mediocre one has a better-looking dashboard.

i don't want to look at at ugly GUI (i get it; lucky for me i like big sur's look), but, more than anything else, i want an OS that runs well, and supports my needs/apps/etc. big sur is doing that (for me).
 

RandomDSdevel

macrumors regular
Jul 23, 2009
153
76
Kokomo, IN
…This is absolutely not true. I use Windwos 10 almost everyday and I don't have to update it if I don't want to. …
-----Yeah, setting the Group Policy 'Computer Configuration' → 'Administrative Templates' → 'Windows Components' → 'Windows Update' → 'Configure Automatic Updates' to 'Enabled' and, under 'Configure automatic updating' in its options screen, '3 - Auto download and notify for install' (or another option of your choice,) on Windows 10 Pro should do the trick — mostly, anyway; OS updates honor this option, but your machine's OEM might introduce a separate update channel for firmware and daemons from it that doesn't. I've also found that major OS updates sometimes bundle updates to Microsoft Store applications. Additionally, Office 365 for Windows, unlike the Mac version, doesn't have a similar option.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
It's funny, how folks always claim that Android sucks because it doesn't get as many updates as an Apple product, but for me that's a feature, and a reason I prefer it! Go figure. 🤷‍♂️
 
  • Like
Reactions: saudor

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
You'd think that after 9 or 10 years that flat UI would be as 'dated' to folks as skeuo apparently was after 6 years.

But then I think back to 2012-13 and no customer hated skeuo until Jony Ive and Steve Ballmer told them to. No one refused to buy an iPhone because of skeuomorphism. No one even knew that was even a word at the time!

there's this awful confirmation bias that if Apple does something it must be right, and if they broke something or did anything wrong it's either Android's fault or you're holding it the wrong way. Steve Jobs suffered from this, too. But today, if Apple does something and it doesn't kill their business, then others like Google or Samsung see it, and assume they have to copy it or risk 'being left behind'.

The real problem though is no corporation or business is concerned about actual customer demand, and customers have become so complacent that no business can do any wrong and any decision they make would work. Things which would put a business under 30 or so years ago don't apply these days. People can send feedback saying "iOS 7/Flat UI sucks bull cookies, please go back!" but the company acts like a dick and says "get used to it you curmudgeon!"

That's really the problem. People adjust to it and assume that = good design, because companies will never go back to what worked previously. People get used to houses located next to pork farms, but that doesn't mean pork farms are environmentally friendly or that it's ok to live near them, either.
 

Feyl

Cancelled
Aug 24, 2013
964
1,951
You'd think that after 9 or 10 years that flat UI would be as 'dated' to folks as skeuo apparently was aftert 6 years.

But then I think back to 2012-13 and no customer hated skeuo until Jony Ive and Steve Ballmer told them to. No one refused to buy an iPhone because of skeuomorphism. No one even knew that was even a word at the time!
This is very true.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
skeuomorphic_vs_minimalistic.png

Every so often I rewatch the WWDC 2013 and the part about iOS 7. When Tim jokes about the wood shelves removed from iBooks, saying 'This is much more environmentally friendly!' or the "we ran out of felt!" regarding Game Center (seriously, were floating rainbow bubbles actually better?! Never understood the gripe about Game Center having a poker table design) everyone just laughed. I doubt people there were taking iOS 7's 'new' design seriously any more than they took OS X "Sea Lion" seriously. That is, until they woke up to their Apple Products after they self-installed iOS 7 and woke them up in the night all bright white. Then they complained, and Apple said "this is how it is, get used to it" and if people were smart, they would have sworn off Apple products until it hurt their bottom line and they were forced to go back. Oh well, maybe in another universe, that happened, and in that other universe, we would have Scott Forstall doing design for Android and Android would be the new main thing, and by 2021 we'd have holographic design similar to the first Iron Man movie.

I still want to be able to toss a virtual file into the recycle bin like Stark did in that movie!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RandomDSdevel

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,251
5,560
ny somewhere
You'd think that after 9 or 10 years that flat UI would be as 'dated' to folks as skeuo apparently was after 6 years.

But then I think back to 2012-13 and no customer hated skeuo until Jony Ive and Steve Ballmer told them to. No one refused to buy an iPhone because of skeuomorphism. No one even knew that was even a word at the time!

there's this awful confirmation bias that if Apple does something it must be right, and if they broke something or did anything wrong it's either Android's fault or you're holding it the wrong way. Steve Jobs suffered from this, too. But today, if Apple does something and it doesn't kill their business, then others like Google or Samsung see it, and assume they have to copy it or risk 'being left behind'.

The real problem though is no corporation or business is concerned about actual customer demand, and customers have become so complacent that no business can do any wrong and any decision they make would work. Things which would put a business under 30 or so years ago don't apply these days. People can send feedback saying "iOS 7/Flat UI sucks bull cookies, please go back!" but the company acts like a dick and says "get used to it you curmudgeon!"

That's really the problem. People adjust to it and assume that = good design, because companies will never go back to what worked previously. People get used to houses located next to pork farms, but that doesn't mean pork farms are environmentally friendly or that it's ok to live near them, either.
i think you're missing the big picture; it isn't whether what apple does is 'right' or 'wrong'.... it's that they are an independent corporation, and can do as they like (and then have to accept the consequences... which speak for themselves).

your particular likes & dislikes tell us about you, not about 'everyone'. no one design can make every individual happy. apple doesn't insult you if you don't like what they do; they don't have to say anything at all. it's their product, they do what they want, and life goes on (and so do you, and, lol, so do i).

i like big sur, am fine with the GUI, and am getting all my work done. lots of people like it. some don't. and that's how life works.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rehkram

auxbuss

macrumors 6502
Feb 18, 2014
452
329
UK
It's funny, how folks always claim that Android sucks because it doesn't get as many updates as an Apple product, but for me that's a feature, and a reason I prefer it! Go figure. 🤷‍♂️
Years ago, I bought a Playstation 3, or some such. I'm not a gamer, but I thought it might provide some entertainment, and I was curious about that fuzzy other world. Every time I switched on the box, Sony forced an update that seemed to take forever. By the time it was done, my allotted time was over or I'd lost interest and was reading a book or I was out on a walk or something. I sold the thing. And I've never played a game since (except Love You To Bits on iPad one Christmas, which was lovely).
 
  • Like
Reactions: colourfastt

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
Years ago, I bought a Playstation 3, or some such. I'm not a gamer, but I thought it might provide some entertainment, and I was curious about that fuzzy other world. Every time I switched on the box, Sony forced an update that seemed to take forever. By the time it was done, my allotted time was over or I'd lost interest and was reading a book or I was out on a walk or something. I sold the thing. And I've never played a game since (except Love You To Bits on iPad one Christmas, which was lovely).
You're lucky. I went through FOUR PS3 consoles each of them went YLoD (beeps three times, shuts down). It had the worst UI ever (XMB) and if you think things have changed on the PS4 or PS5, forget it. That's why my gaming is on PC these days. My PS4 and Xbox One and also Xbox 360 (my launch model never died, go figure) are just glorified, backup streaming boxes for Netflix and the like.

Right now I've got a Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G that I am playing with that so far it's excellent. If you think you're stuck with OneUI's flat UI forget that--there's a ton of skeuo themes on the Galaxy Store, and you can get a widget app (XWidget Pro, paid) to get tons more skeuo widgets to replace Samsung's attempt at Apple Flat with rounded corner widgets that come out the gate.

Skeuo Samsung TouchWiz Nature UX theme on S20 FE:

Screenshot_20210530-150020_One UI Home.jpg

Although the latest Weather app update has brought back a rather nice skeuo graphic of the sky at the top of the app where an ad used to reside. At least on Android you can get control over updates, disable them, or get a device out of support and never worry about your UI being suddenly turned upside down. That mess with Apple regarding iOS 7 really ruined the Apple experience for me, and while I still use a Mac and Apple TV, my dependence on Apple has dwindled and has hardly a sign of fully coming back.

Samsung's new Weather app:

Screenshot_20210530-145303_Weather.jpg

Still can't imagine why Google felt the need to use Apple and their UI as a barometer for how to do Android. Android existed for different people than those who'd buy an iPhone, and seemed to be doing quite well without trying to attract Apple customers. Since Android 5.1 Lollipop and them ditching Nexus for Pixel (and Samsung defaulting their UI to an iOS 7 lookalike) I've really gotten concerned about the direction of Android. Once, those on Android subforums would brag about expandable storage, removable batteries, IR blasters, sliding keyboards, everything Apple didn't have, but now they totally are fine with losing features and calling it an 'upgrade'. Seriously, where's the upgrade when you lose features? you pay more for less...how does that even compute?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RandomDSdevel

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,251
5,560
ny somewhere
You're lucky. I went through FOUR PS3 consoles each of them went YLoD (beeps three times, shuts down). It had the worst UI ever (XMB) and if you think things have changed on the PS4 or PS5, forget it. That's why my gaming is on PC these days. My PS4 and Xbox One and also Xbox 360 (my launch model never died, go figure) are just glorified, backup streaming boxes for Netflix and the like.

Right now I've got a Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G that I am playing with that so far it's excellent. If you think you're stuck with OneUI's flat UI forget that--there's a ton of skeuo themes on the Galaxy Store, and you can get a widget app (XWidget Pro, paid) to get tons more skeuo widgets to replace Samsung's attempt at Apple Flat with rounded corner widgets that come out the gate.

Although the latest Weather app update has brought back a rather nice skeuo graphic of the sky at the top of the app where an ad used to reside. At least on Android you can get control over updates, disable them, or get a device out of support and never worry about your UI being suddenly turned upside down. That mess with Apple regarding iOS 7 really ruined the Apple experience for me, and while I still use a Mac and Apple TV, my dependence on Apple has dwindled and has hardly a sign of fully coming back.

Still can't imagine why Google felt the need to use Apple and their UI as a barometer for how to do Android. Android existed for different people than those who'd buy an iPhone, and seemed to be doing quite well without trying to attract Apple customers. Since Android 5.1 Lollipop and them ditching Nexus for Pixel (and Samsung defaulting their UI to an iOS 7 lookalike) I've really gotten concerned about the direction of Android. Once, those on Android subforums would brag about expandable storage, removable batteries, IR blasters, sliding keyboards, everything Apple didn't have, but now they totally are fine with losing features and calling it an 'upgrade'. Seriously, where's the upgrade when you lose features? you pay more for less...how does that even compute?
once again, you're trying to speak for everyone. who is 'they', as in 'they totally are fine with losing features...'? and who appointed you spokesperson? (for android, for mac OS, etc).

can't wait for the next mac OS, so you can explain what's wrong with it, and how it would be better if it were just the way you think it should be... :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: ErikGrim

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
No, they've just stolen Google's old motto: "It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

I've loved Samsung since the Galaxy SIII freed me from iOS 7 hell. But other than the nice UI and features that were lacking elsewhere (multi-window, smart stay, air gestures, etc) their older devices were bootlooping, slow, laggy piles of crap.

I'm gonna admit I'm impressed with the S20 FE. 120Hz makes my 6S feel laggy in comparison. For once, Samsung 'just works' in ways Apple's struggling with today.
 

rehkram

macrumors 6502a
May 7, 2018
851
1,191
upstate NY
Here's another aphorism often heard in software houses when discussing marketing:

"It's the steak, not the sizzle"

Count me as a Big Sur liker, mostly uninterested in cosmetics unless said pixel enhancements provide useful functionality. I mean, complaining about the bad keyboards etc on previous MacBooks I can agree with you on. Complaining about a lack of faux 3D buttons is a matter of taste. It will all swing 180 degrees at some point anyway.
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.